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Thread: Gaffed STP machine

  1. #1
    I think the OP might be full of it, but here is the link: https://www.videopoker.com/forum/vie...129639#p129639.

  2. #2
    I too think it's BS.

    Without knowing all the details, If I found one I would play it totally differently than Bob and others have suggested.

    I wonder if there were their other non STP games available on the machine? If it was a multi game, you would be golden.

    Just pump up the credits betting small to avoid constant hand-pays (perhaps a few here and there and cash out a few tickets as well) and then use the accumulated money for free-rolling a big score on something like Keno.

  3. #3
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    I too think it's BS.

    Without knowing all the details, If I found one I would play it totally differently than Bob and others have suggested.

    I wonder if there were their other non STP games available on the machine? If it was a multi game, you would be golden.

    Just pump up the credits betting small to avoid constant hand-pays (perhaps a few here and there and cash out a few tickets as well) and then use the accumulated money for free-rolling a big score on something like Keno.
    Yeah exactly. You probably noticed Bob didn't mention anything about washing the vouchers and cover play in other machines (segues into your Keno move), which is critical IMHO. To his credit, he did mention avoiding hand pays, which is also critical IMHO - you want to to make it mathematically impossible to produce a hand-pay on the draw/resolution of the bet. Here is a link to a post about a VP machine that produced 5 ducks (5 card deal and draw) (https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/gamb...#comment-22150), which is even more unbelievable (if that is possible) than the gaffed STP story.

  4. #4
    Depending on the situation, I might take a few handpays on the machine over the course of time. Bob did mention, that he would stay under ten thousand and switch it off to a teammate or something like that. That would also be considered structuring and it might even be worse in the long run as conspiring. Taking those tickets to the high limit area and purposely getting taxable jackpots might be in your best interest I would mix in cash as well.

  5. #5
    I would not involve other people either. I was surprised Bob said that other people should get involved. Anyway, as we both think, it's very unlikely to have occurred - I guess people are jumping on the tall-tale bandwagon since the double-up bug is legit, hoping their tall tales will have more traction because of the legit double-up exploit.

  6. #6
    Regarding the original post: specifics are missing. Would the STP 5X appearing five times be so fantastic? Would it appearing ten times be so fantastic? Put it into perspective: the chance of being dealt a royal flush is something like 1 in 650,000 hands yet it happens. Even the chance of drawing a royal is 1 in 40,000 and that happens all the time.

    I think the original poster in the original thread won some money. And he hit some 5 times multipliers. So what? It happens.

    People lose $28,000 then win it back the same day in Blackjack. But you accept that, don't you?

  7. #7
    Originally Posted by AndrewG View Post
    Regarding the original post: specifics are missing. Would the STP 5X appearing five times be so fantastic? Would it appearing ten times be so fantastic? Put it into perspective: the chance of being dealt a royal flush is something like 1 in 650,000 hands yet it happens. Even the chance of drawing a royal is 1 in 40,000 and that happens all the time.

    I think the original poster in the original thread won some money. And he hit some 5 times multipliers. So what? It happens.

    People lose $28,000 then win it back the same day in Blackjack. But you accept that, don't you?

    It's less likely than getting three dealt royals in a row.

  8. #8
    In the original post (please see the link in the very first post of this thread or look at the screen shot in this post), the player does not mention the multiplier value received, only that it has the same value from deal to deal. The person claims that the multiplier persists, and strongly implies that it does so for hundreds of hands. When something occurs without fail for hundreds of times in a row, we assume it is a constant and not due to an astronomical run of luck. It would be like saying the rising of the sun each morning is just a lucky run and not count on it to do so the following day.
    With the original post available as a screenshot in this post - you can easily draw your own conclusions and interpretations if you wish. You can see the original post does address Axel's question about whether or not the gaffed STP game was on a multigame machine (it was). If this story were true, why would you post the story at all, and if you did, why do so on a website with strong affiliations to IGT ?
    The answer is simple - this is very likely fiction.

    Name:  original_gaffed_stp_post.jpg
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  9. #9
    I'm breaking into this thread because someone reputable here asked for my opinion on this since it's a bit on the shady side of vp.

    The story isn't real. No way a poster on VP.com wouldn't recognize this "gaff" as an illegal play, and the last thing they'd do is post about it while it's active. Bob Dancer seized upon it to write an article about it, but how he says he'd handle it is not what I would do. This is not at all similar to the double up anomaly, where if a player wanted to increase the denom of many smaller winners, there'd be many, many hands and arms actions which would greatly increase the possibility of nosey neighbors grabbing a look. Also in this STP thing, you would NEVER ask for "blockers" unless you have the trust of Jacob in them....and Bob isn't the best loved gambler in town.

    There's nothing real about the OP's story.

  10. #10
    Today I sat next to a lady at at five-hand STP game who received about ten or 12 multipliers in a row ranging from 2x to 10x. On the 10x hand she was dealt a pair of Jacks which did not improve. Is ten or 12 multipliers in a row impossible? Of course not.

  11. #11
    Also, every time a multipler comes up on STP, it makes a ton of noise. I doubt this would last very long, if true.
    Keep your friends close, keep your drinks closer...

  12. #12
    Originally Posted by AndrewG View Post
    Today I sat next to a lady at at five-hand STP game who received about ten or 12 multipliers in a row ranging from 2x to 10x. On the 10x hand she was dealt a pair of Jacks which did not improve. Is ten or 12 multipliers in a row impossible? Of course not.
    So?

  13. #13
    I don't know or care if this is a true story. It doesn't really matter, but the guy who posted it later on said it never happened (not sure if he's doing the whole, "Someone Who Isn't Me" thing or if it's truly made up...but whatever).

    If I stumbled upon this, I don't really know how I would play it, since there are like a million different variables. Hell, I might not even play it. Tough to say without actually being in that situation.

    As far as legality is concerned, I'm not sure if it's even illegal to play a machine that is malfunctioning. It's illegal to make a machine malfunction (99% sure at least). If a machine malfunctions then it "voids all pays and plays". But playing a game that is malfunctioning? I'm not so sure that's illegal. Even so, who's to say the machine is even malfunctioning or you know it's malfunctioning? There are so many different variants out now a days (there are 2 different types of Dream Card out and I can't tell the difference between them unless I look in the help menu). And games are put on the floor all the time that are "wrong" -- a side bet is +EV off the top, a slot is configured to be +EV for the first few spins, or some other such nonsense.

    How long do I have to play the game before I'm "breaking the law"? If I play one hand, clearly that's not illegal. Two hands -- no, because in order for 2 to be illegal, I need to have known the first was a malfunction. Three hands? I've seen weird shit happen, doesn't mean the machine is malfunctioning. 3-in-a-row happens all the time. How many hands do I need to play before I'm like, "Yup, this machine is malfunctioning, I need to tell the casino."? I don't know the probabilities on the machine and regardless, if something has a 1-in-100,000,000,000,000 chance of happening, well, eventually it's going to happen. On top of that, maybe this variant is supposed to give you a multiplier on every hand. I don't know. I've seen machines that I thought were super duper +EV, only to realize it's 6-coin max bet instead of 5, or it's Kings or Better instead of Jacks or Better, or something else. Maybe this weird STP variant is playing properly, it's actually -EV, and I'm just too stupid to realize where I'm getting fucked on the payback somewhere....and I'm just running good on it (running good isn't illegal now, is it?).



    There are things that Bob and Axel mentioned that I would definitely look into / consider, among a few other things I'd look for that I'm not going to mention. But handing off the machine (not cash or vouchers) to someone else once you have $10k in TITOs would not be structuring.
    #FreeTyde

  14. #14
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    if something has a 1-in-100,000,000,000,000 chance of happening, well, eventually it's going to happen.
    I think Mr RS raised some very important points. It is not your responsibility to know that a machine is malfunctioning. It is also not your responsibility to tell a dealer that they overpaid you.

    Still, the poster on the other forum did not give specifics. But everyone seems to be assuming he got some huge number of multipliers and cashed out huge money. If he gave a specific on anything I didn't see it. So what is everyone arguing about?

    For all I know he got a dozen multipliers and made $60. And to him it's a big deal.

    I couldn't help but watch the lady on the STP game next to me as she hit ten or 12 multipliers. Yes the machine made lots of noise as STP machines do. But many of those multipliers hit on blank hands and she won nothing.

  15. #15
    There's almost zero chance I wouldn't play something like this.

    I guess if it was in a particular location I believe had much more long-term value to me then what I thought I could make from the machine I would seriously consider making a deal with someone else I trusted.

  16. #16
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    I'm breaking into this thread because someone reputable here asked for my opinion on this since it's a bit on the shady side of vp.

    The story isn't real. No way a poster on VP.com wouldn't recognize this "gaff" as an illegal play, and the last thing they'd do is post about it while it's active. Bob Dancer seized upon it to write an article about it, but how he says he'd handle it is not what I would do. This is not at all similar to the double up anomaly, where if a player wanted to increase the denom of many smaller winners, there'd be many, many hands and arms actions which would greatly increase the possibility of nosey neighbors grabbing a look. Also in this STP thing, you would NEVER ask for "blockers" unless you have the trust of Jacob in them....and Bob isn't the best loved gambler in town.

    There's nothing real about the OP's story.
    I was thinking the same thing about Bob it was just an opportunity for him to do what he does. I agree with most of your post post.

    Having blockers in the situation seems very silly, because it's a multi game there's no reason to have blockers. Assuming 5 * multipliers there'd be absolutely no reason to sit there and slam away hand after hand on the STP. Play a few hands with multipliers and switch to a different game play that for a while. I would never want to turn this into a quick big cash grab all at once if done right, I think you could probably get the machine to last for quite a while taking smaller amounts and ultimately get much more out of it, that would be my goal.

    As RS_ pointed out, there are so many factors to consider that it's impossible to come up with a perfect plan. For example, the machine might be located at some bar where there's a really f****** nosy bartender. You can come up with a plan that you think would be best and that's really all you can do.

    Yeah the story is completely made up from somebody's hopeful imagination And complete BS.

  17. #17
    Originally Posted by AndrewG View Post
    Regarding the original post: specifics are missing. Would the STP 5X appearing five times be so fantastic? Would it appearing ten times be so fantastic? Put it into perspective: the chance of being dealt a royal flush is something like 1 in 650,000 hands yet it happens. Even the chance of drawing a royal is 1 in 40,000 and that happens all the time.

    I think the original poster in the original thread won some money. And he hit some 5 times multipliers. So what? It happens.

    People lose $28,000 then win it back the same day in Blackjack. But you accept that, don't you?
    if you're talking about a normal super times pay then I absolutely do not believe you. Thats starting to get into some Alan Mendelson bulshit territory right there.

  18. #18
    Originally Posted by AxelWolf View Post
    Originally Posted by AndrewG View Post
    Regarding the original post: specifics are missing. Would the STP 5X appearing five times be so fantastic? Would it appearing ten times be so fantastic? Put it into perspective: the chance of being dealt a royal flush is something like 1 in 650,000 hands yet it happens. Even the chance of drawing a royal is 1 in 40,000 and that happens all the time.

    I think the original poster in the original thread won some money. And he hit some 5 times multipliers. So what? It happens.

    People lose $28,000 then win it back the same day in Blackjack. But you accept that, don't you?
    if you're talking about a normal super times pay then I absolutely do not believe you. Thats starting to get into some Alan Mendelson bulshit territory right there.
    Are you saying that a STP machine giving multipliers five or ten times in a row is unbelievable? Been in a casino lately?

  19. #19
    Welcome back Alan, I'm amazed you stayed away for as long as you did.

  20. #20
    Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    Welcome back Alan, I'm amazed you stayed away for as long as you did.
    I love the non-sequitur straw-men that "AndrewG" comes up with. No one wrote anything about 5 or 10 times. We're talking hundreds of times that this multiplier stays in place. But this will be ignored and the "5 or 10 times" drum will be thumped 'til the cows come home. Anyway the story referred to in the 1st post of this thread is probably not true.

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