Rob Singer didn't beat video poker

[monet]

what i dont understand is this. I have said I believe kj makes a living as an AP. MrV has said the same. I am guessing MC believes it because he lives an AP life when he is sober.

So who is fucking left...Alan and Singer? The 2 viigest losers as people dont believe kJ and he continually needs to make there 2 believe? This is a sickness. An obsession.

Why does kj elevate these 2 people to such a high level that he needs to continually put up wit their anti-gay bullshit and their skepticism. Most likely a manufactured skepticism that is produced just to fuck with kj's head.

KJ seeks drama....he wears a kick me sign and then cries when people kick him.

the one person who engages singer and alan the most is KJ....KJ gives them life...gives them power...just by treating them as "somebodies" who have accomplishments in life.

You really have deep love for homosexuals don't you?

[mickeycrimm]

You're dead to me.

This is your response, Alan? Very sad and weak.

I don't see where I have said anything that is untrue. Your response of running away only confirms that.

Why is my proposal not acceptable to you Alan. Your chance to prove us all wrong, prove Rob Singer, who you have been defending and enabling for years, right....prove him a gambling genius. AND solve your personal financial situation all at the same time.

Running away like a little girl instead, only confirms you are on the wrong side of all these issues and what your agenda really is/was. Just as I have been saying for quite some time. Thanks for confirming that Alan.

[LarryS]

what i dont understand is this. I have said I believe kj makes a living as an AP. MrV has said the same. I am guessing MC believes it because he lives an AP life when he is sober.

So who is fucking left...Alan and Singer? The 2 viigest losers as people dont believe kJ and he continually needs to make there 2 believe? This is a sickness. An obsession.

Why does kj elevate these 2 people to such a high level that he needs to continually put up wit their anti-gay bullshit and their skepticism. Most likely a manufactured skepticism that is produced just to fuck with kj's head.

KJ seeks drama....he wears a kick me sign and then cries when people kick him.

the one person who engages singer and alan the most is KJ....KJ gives them life...gives them power...just by treating them as "somebodies" who have accomplishments in life.

You really have deep love for homosexuals don't you?

I have love for homosexuals and you love to pay extra for urine doused chinese food.......so whats your point wally cox

[RS__]

I don't understand what you're saying LarryS. I have plenty of accomplishments in life and I've never claimed any in casinos.

As far as Rob goes, some of what he says makes perfect sense and then there are some of you who just twist everything he says to meet your own agenda.

For a start Rob never said he turns a -EV game into a positive game. Yet there are "APs" who say that with comps and promotions the -EV games they play are turned into +EV activities.

It's a funny world, don't you think?

Didn't you get married at a craps table IN a casino?

One of them can be proven using math, the other can be dis-proven using math.

[AxelWolf]

I don't understand what you're saying LarryS. I have plenty of accomplishments in life and I've never claimed any in casinos.

As far as Rob goes, some of what he says makes perfect sense and then there are some of you who just twist everything he says to meet your own agenda.

For a start Rob never said he turns a -EV game into a positive game. Yet there are "APs" who say that with comps and promotions the -EV games they play are turned into +EV activities.

It's a funny world, don't you think?

He just claims his system gives you/him the ability to make a profit short and long-term without changing the mathematical EV on the machine, IE. VOODOO. The fact that he doesn't claim to change the -EV into a positive one should be an even bigger red flag.

IIRC, he said he has a win goal of $2500 and he has always hit that mark or higher in a session before he runs out of his session BR. That doesn't sound suspicious to you?

And why does that make for a funny world? No true AP says they can profit on a -EV machine by itself. They profit from the casino and the extras, AND THEY CAN SHOW THE MATH. Rob claims the opposite and has bashed promotions such as point multipliers.

[mickeycrimm]

What if I were to proposition you to a little game played with one die and a cup? You know the chances of rolling a 3 are 1 in 6. Expressed as odds it's 5 to 1 against. I say I can roll a 3 in just 4 rolls of the die. Let's make it an even money proposition and we play the game 500 times. Hint: Sling, you have to use the failure rate to determine where you are percentagewise in this game.

Sling, this little dice hustle was invented by a dice gambler in mid-17th century France. He beat everyone to death with it. To the point he could no longer get any action. But how could he win by rolling a 3 in just four rolls when the chances are 1 in 6? The answer is found in the failure rate. You multiply the failure rate of each event. In the case of rolling the 3 the failure rate is 5/6 = .8333333.

.8333333 X .8333333 X .8333333 X .8333333 = 48.2253%

If the failure rate of rolling a 3 in four rolls is 48.2253% then subtracting it from 1 shows a success rate of 51.7747%. That's how the dice hustler was able to win with this bet. It's just more proof that the sharp gamblers get the money.

Rob is supposed to have played about 500 sessions with his system. His published success rate is 85%. That means the failure rate is 15%. So let's multiply the failure rate:

.15 X .15 = 2.25%
1/.0225 = 44.44

Robs chances of losing two bankrolls is a row would be 1 in 44.44 sessions

.15 X .15 X .15 = 0.3375%
1/.00375 = 267

Rob's chances of losing 3 bankrolls in a row would be 1 in 267 sessions.

But according to Rob he never lost an entire bankroll. He says he brought 57K to the play but through 500 sessions his biggest loss was just 33K (he reported a week before that it was 35K) and 2nd biggest loss was just 11K.

The numbers just arent't realistic.

[Alan Mendelson]

I don't understand what you're saying LarryS. I have plenty of accomplishments in life and I've never claimed any in casinos.

As far as Rob goes, some of what he says makes perfect sense and then there are some of you who just twist everything he says to meet your own agenda.

For a start Rob never said he turns a -EV game into a positive game. Yet there are "APs" who say that with comps and promotions the -EV games they play are turned into +EV activities.

It's a funny world, don't you think?

He just claims his system gives you/him the ability to make a profit short and long-term without changing the mathematical EV on the machine, IE. VOODOO. The fact that he doesn't claim to change the -EV into a positive one should be an even bigger red flag.

IIRC, he said he has a win goal of $2500 and he has always hit that mark or higher in a session before he runs out of his session BR. That doesn't sound suspicious to you?

And why does that make for a funny world? No true AP says they can profit on a -EV machine by itself. They profit from the casino and the extras, AND THEY CAN SHOW THE MATH. Rob claims the opposite and has bashed promotions such as point multipliers.

Two things that immediately stand out:

1. Rob told me he did have a session or even two when he lost his bankroll. If he practiced voodoo would he ever lose? LOL

2. Why is there this general and widespread belief that you must be on a +EV video poker game in order to win? I'm asking.

I wrote this before but it got lost. In the years I hit those $100k royals I had a profit at video poker. The profits were in the double digits. BUT I lost the profit playing craps.

The royals came on 8/5 Bonus Poker, a -EV game. Yes I had losses playing $5 Bonus but the three short sessions played on a whim at $25/coin because I had a substantial amount of free play gave me video poker profits.

So a question: why couldn't Rob also hit big winners at $25/coin video poker that would allow him to have a profit on -EV games?

While Rob never sent me his tax returns and I cannot vouch for his claims I fully accept that he could win about $100,000 a year. I accept it because he does play $25 VP regularly and at that level it just doesn't take that many big winners to have a $100k profit.

He could easily have a lucky streak.

I remember watching a player at Caesars having a lucky streak. The machines were $5, $10, $25 and he was on $25. He was hitting quads after quads, sometimes no more than three plays apart. He was playing 9/5 DDB and he hit AAAA once without a kicker, and once with a kicker.

People do WIN at -EV games. Over time the math says you won't BEAT the game but you can WIN at the game.

Ten years of play -- the time Rob says he was a professional -- is not long term. So he easily could have WON at the -EV games WITHOUT BEATING them.

Of course with no tax returns it cannot be proven. If Rob wanted to publish a book with DVDs and do an Infomercial to sell them I would insist that we showed his tax returns.

[a2a3dseddie]

Of course with no tax returns it cannot be proven. If Rob wanted to publish a book with DVDs and do an Infomercial to sell them I would insist that we showed his tax returns.

Now that is a fantastic idea Alan! I'm sure slingshot will be first to call in to buy a copy!

Doesn't he always say he wants to teach people? What better way to reach the masses? Now since he says he 'trains people for free', we don't want him to compromise his moral principals so you two can charge just enough to recoup expenses.

To be honest, if irrefutable proof is provided that his system does work, I'll buy a copy myself!

[Alan Mendelson]

So eddie out of everything I posted THAT IS YOUR ONLY comment? Typical of the myopic bias here.

[a2a3dseddie]

So eddie out of everything I posted THAT IS YOUR ONLY comment? Typical of the myopic bias here.

What else was I supposed to comment on? Your belief in his 10-17 year 'short term' winning streak? Him saying he doesn't play anything higher than $2 VP these days but you saying he regularly plays $25 VP?

There was a sarcastic element to my previous comment Alan, but it was because we all know what you suggested- a book, DVDs and an infomercial will never happen. You've said yourself that he'll never provide any kind of proof.

One question I have been meaning to ask you though. And it is in all seriousness. No sarcasm or insults.

You said yourself that you don't play Rob's system. kewlj, RS___, mickeycrimm, jbjb Dan Druff and so many others don't play it because mathematically it cannot be proven to work and no proof that it did work has ever been provided.

Why don't you play it? Why don't you let Rob train you? You two are friends right? You spent the time to learn optimal play. Now that you're retired, why not spend some time to learn the last 5% of his strategy and see if you can win with it?

[Rob.Singer]

I don't understand what you're saying LarryS. I have plenty of accomplishments in life and I've never claimed any in casinos.

As far as Rob goes, some of what he says makes perfect sense and then there are some of you who just twist everything he says to meet your own agenda.

For a start Rob never said he turns a -EV game into a positive game. Yet there are "APs" who say that with comps and promotions the -EV games they play are turned into +EV activities.

It's a funny world, don't you think?

He just claims his system gives you/him the ability to make a profit short and long-term without changing the mathematical EV on the machine, IE. VOODOO. The fact that he doesn't claim to change the -EV into a positive one should be an even bigger red flag.

IIRC, he said he has a win goal of $2500 and he has always hit that mark or higher in a session before he runs out of his session BR. That doesn't sound suspicious to you?

And why does that make for a funny world? No true AP says they can profit on a -EV machine by itself. They profit from the casino and the extras, AND THEY CAN SHOW THE MATH. Rob claims the opposite and has bashed promotions such as point multipliers.

Axel do you ever read the things you write....or what someone else writes that you disagree with, before putting up unintelligible responses?

Have you ever heard of anyone going into a casino and playing a 99.2% game....and coming out a winner TODAY? So explain where exactly the VOODOO is in that. And what happens if it happened again next week---what would your unbelieving mind say then? And what about a 3rd...4th...5th time? Would your untrained mind become lost, just because you've never been able to think in those terms? Would you only be able to keep repeating to yourself "players only win on +EV machines/situations over any term" unless -EV machine players apply their own values to all the fluffy "extras"'?

Not that you know or ever talked to any, but if you ever run into a UNLV math professor it two, go ahead and ask them if it's impossible to make a consistent profit off of a 99.2% casino game over the long term. You'll be shocked by the answer.

Then you make up another story about my $2500 session win goal again, and if you were really trying to understand the ins and outs like you've claimed in your questions, you wouldn't be doing that. I don't win the goal "every time". It's 85% - 90% of the time. And I don't play "until the session bankroll if $57k is lost". Largest loss was $33k; next largest was $11k. That's due to soft profit cashouts along the way....and play ends either when a minimum $2500 profit is net or I've gone thru all my original credits.

All ap's can do is show the math BEFORE they play, on their way to creating their own value to all those "extras" while ending up with nothing but phantom bucks to try and buy groceries with. But we all know the only thing that matters is where you actually stand AFTER you finish playing.

Wise up.

[Rob.Singer]

So eddie out of everything I posted THAT IS YOUR ONLY comment? Typical of the myopic bias here.

What else was I supposed to comment on? Your belief in his 10-17 year 'short term' winning streak? Him saying he doesn't play anything higher than $2 VP these days but you saying he regularly plays $25 VP?

There was a sarcastic element to my previous comment Alan, but it was because we all know what you suggested- a book, DVDs and an infomercial will never happen. You've said yourself that he'll never provide any kind of proof.

One question I have been meaning to ask you though. And it is in all seriousness. No sarcasm or insults.

You said yourself that you don't play Rob's system. kewlj, RS___, mickeycrimm, jbjb Dan Druff and so many others don't play it because mathematically it cannot be proven to work and no proof that it did work has ever been provided.

Why don't you play it? Why don't you let Rob train you? You two are friends right? You spent the time to learn optimal play. Now that you're retired, why not spend some time to learn the last 5% of his strategy and see if you can win with it?

Again Eddie you're applying your own stupid interpretations to something you know nothing about. I stopped playing above $2 a few years back because of two reasons: the large jackpots I was hitting at $5/$10/$25 was adversely affecting my fed tax filings with the AMT which didn't happen during the ten years I filed as a professional gambler, and I don't need that type of income anyway now that we're on retirement status, with ss, pensions, and draws.

As far as Alan learning and playing the strategy, he has his reasons for declining I guess. But knowing him as I do, I don't really believe he'd be a viable candidate anyway. He has strong belief systems, and that would work against his learning.

[a2a3dseddie]

Uh oh guys, looks like dementia has set in and the old troll is finally turning on his supporters!

As far as Alan learning and playing the strategy, he has his reasons for declining I guess. But knowing him as I do, I don't really believe he'd be a viable candidate anyway. He has strong belief systems, and that would work against his learning.

Alan's not smart enough?

Sling doesn't fully understand my play strategy

Now if Rob thinks I don't know his strategies, that's another matter.

slingshot too?!

[MisterV]

In the years I hit those $100k royals I had a profit at video poker...I remember watching a player at Caesars having a lucky streak.

Well now, that settles it: the next time you marry, forego the craps table as your nuptial site and opt instead for your favorite 25 cent VP machine at Caesars.

Maybe with a bit of luck the marriage won't implode.

[Alan Mendelson]

Eddie why do you twist things? Rob said I had a strong belief system and you say I'm not smart enough? Well fuck you.

You also asked: "Why don't you play it? Why don't you let Rob train you?"

I've never been much of a VP player and I always preferred craps. You need a much smaller bankroll to.play craps. In fact, at a $10 table you only need $10 to play and you can cheer and high-five and roll the dice right with the high rollers who have thousands of dollars on the table.

Today I played video poker with the free play offers I get from casinos. This morning I had $75 at the Palms. I unfortunately had to play 6/5 Bonus but that was okay since I had zero full houses. I did hit 7777 and cashed out $84.50 on the 25-cent game.

Then to Red Rock. My $75 there got me $50.25 plus a pull tab for 10,000 points which paid for breakfast. I played 25-cent 8/5 Bonus. Note that the better pay table got me less than at the Palms.

What will you twist next, Eddie?

[a2a3dseddie]

Eddie why do you twist things? Rob said I had a strong belief system and you say I'm not smart enough? Well fuck you.

Uhhh... I never said you weren't smart enough Alan. That's what Rob is implying.

To be honest with you Alan, most everyone here (myself included) enjoy interacting with you, whether it be just neutral conversation or disagreements.

[Alan Mendelson]

Eddie why do you twist things? Rob said I had a strong belief system and you say I'm not smart enough? Well fuck you.

Uhhh... I never said you weren't smart enough Alan. That's what Rob is implying.

Fuck you again. Rob never implied that.

[a2a3dseddie]

Eddie why do you twist things? Rob said I had a strong belief system and you say I'm not smart enough? Well fuck you.

Uhhh... I never said you weren't smart enough Alan. That's what your friend Rob is implying.

To be honest with you Alan, most everyone here (myself included) enjoy interacting with you, whether it be just neutral conversation or disagreements.

Fuck you again. Rob never implied that.

The only person who consistently mocks people for their intelligence is Rob.

[kewlJ]

Alan seems to be going off the deep end. His anger and bitterness is escalating. Hang in there Alan, 1st of the month and more retirement money to give the casinos isn't far away.


Really just read both Alan and Singer's post. 2 very angry, bitter, old, degenerate gamblers taking out there bitterness on everyone else. Isn't it about time Dan pull the plug on these two angry clowns?

(sorry MrV, I don't dislike older people and not all old guys are angry and bitter, but I believe age is playing a part with these two. They are both really angry that their lives are winding down and they don't like they way they turned out. I also think dementia might be starting to show itself in the form of unexplained anger and hate)

[MisterV]

It's more than a week away, which is an absolute eternity for a down on his luck degenerate gambler.

Let the jonesing begin.