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Thread: Any Experience with M Resort $500 Loss Rebate?

  1. #301
    What great eyes you must have to sit at one table and watch the cards at the next table.

  2. #302
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Jumping to the next table is a big part of my game, because I usually try to track a second table, as I am playing one. If that second table goes or is even heading positive and the table I am playing is going south, I am jumping.
    I understand how you keep track of what the count is, but how can you tell whether a table is heading positive or going south?
    That's just terminology. My goal is true count of +3 (hopefully more) as that is where I max bet. So if the next table has a TC of between +1 and +2, it is "heading" in the right direction. Might not get there, but it is heading there.

  3. #303
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    What great eyes you must have to sit at one table and watch the cards at the next table.
    ...."and grandma, what big teeth you have".

    Not really Alan. It isn't hard to see the cards at the next table. The next table is usually 5 feet away. But one of the tricks, whether tracking a second table or just walking by a table and quickly picking up the count (wong in), is that you aren't necessarily focusing on the card number. There is a lot of looking at "pips" and "paint".

    One of the first places, I was tracking another table was early on in my career, playing Atlantic City. It was either the Sands or The Claridge Casino, I forget. They had a low mirrored ceiling. Just looking slightly up, you got a perfect view of the table directly across the pit (upside down though). And there was going to be nobody stepping in and out of your site line. So yeah, on that one, I would say, being in my 20's with good eyesight was an advantage.
    Last edited by kewlJ; 08-08-2017 at 09:56 AM.

  4. #304
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    What great eyes you must have to sit at one table and watch the cards at the next table.
    Alan,

    I've read some accounts of people who played with Stu Ungar. Ungar would be playing in a tournament at one table, and somebody at another table would ask him if they made the right move, and Ungar would launch into a lecture about what they had done wrong and when. So I guess it can be done.

    I sat next to a guy during NFL games at the old Imperial Palace showroom who used to work at resorts in upstate New York with Ungar when they were young men. He said Ungar was absolutely amazing, and was much better at games other than poker.

  5. #305
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    My goal is true count of +3 (hopefully more) as that is where I max bet. So if the next table has a TC of between +1 and +2, it is "heading" in the right direction. Might not get there, but it is heading there.
    Isn't it just as likely to be heading in the wrong direction? How can you tell which way it's heading?

    I read elsewhere that as the pack is dealt, the count moves towards neutral....maybe it was Qfit who wrote that?

    So if the TC is say -4, then wouldn't it start heading positive?

  6. #306
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post

    So if the TC is say -4, then wouldn't it start heading positive?
    You are correct, it will start heading positive, or a better way of putting it start heading back towards Zero. But Zero isn't my goal. Even if the count should flip slightly from negative to slightly positive.....that isn't my goal. That's not what I am looking for. I am looking for my max bet opportunities, a TC of +3 or more.

    And a TC +3 or more becomes less likely to occur, not impossible, but less likely, once the count has gone negative. You are better off finding a new table than sitting through all those negative, neutral or maybe just a hair positive count rounds. And IF you can find a new table where the count is already positive, then you are already half way there (towards the goal of max bet opportunity)....or at least "heading in the right direction".

  7. #307
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    I am looking for my max bet opportunities, a TC of +3 or more.
    I understand.

    How often do you see a TC of +3 or more?

    The running count must be double digits if the TC is +3 or more...right?

    Doesn't the pit see all the small cards coming out, and that the count is way positive.

    Don't they notice the player min betting all of the sudden jump all over a big positive count?

  8. #308
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Jumping to the next table is a big part of my game, because I usually try to track a second table, as I am playing one. If that second table goes or is even heading positive and the table I am playing is going south, I am jumping.
    I understand how you keep track of what the count is, but how can you tell whether a table is heading positive or going south?
    That's just terminology. My goal is true count of +3 (hopefully more) as that is where I max bet. So if the next table has a TC of between +1 and +2, it is "heading" in the right direction. Might not get there, but it is heading there.
    Total bs. Kew is expecting everybody to believe that a card counter at table A is never recognized as a counter (because if he were he'd be tossed in a flash) and not only that, he's so cool in that he can also count cards at the table or tables next to him, then simply "jump up" and move to the table having the most positive count....without ever being spotted, tossed or banned. And as we all know, these days when someone gets banned at one casino for counting, they're banned at most or all others. Amazing story!

    Now maybe you can splain how being gay is not a weird choice.

  9. #309
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post

    I understand how you keep track of what the count is, but how can you tell whether a table is heading positive or going south?
    That's just terminology. My goal is true count of +3 (hopefully more) as that is where I max bet. So if the next table has a TC of between +1 and +2, it is "heading" in the right direction. Might not get there, but it is heading there.
    Total bs. Kew is expecting everybody to believe that a card counter at table A is never recognized as a counter (because if he were he'd be tossed in a flash) and not only that, he's so cool in that he can also count cards at the table or tables next to him, then simply "jump up" and move to the table having the most positive count....without ever being spotted, tossed or banned. And as we all know, these days when someone gets banned at one casino for counting, they're banned at most or all others. Amazing story!

    Now maybe you can splain how being gay is not a weird choice.
    The real question is why, after meeting someone as charming as Rob, we're not ALL gay.

  10. #310
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post

    I understand how you keep track of what the count is, but how can you tell whether a table is heading positive or going south?
    That's just terminology. My goal is true count of +3 (hopefully more) as that is where I max bet. So if the next table has a TC of between +1 and +2, it is "heading" in the right direction. Might not get there, but it is heading there.
    Total bs. Kew is expecting everybody to believe that a card counter at table A is never recognized as a counter (because if he were he'd be tossed in a flash) and not only that, he's so cool in that he can also count cards at the table or tables next to him, then simply "jump up" and move to the table having the most positive count....without ever being spotted, tossed or banned. And as we all know, these days when someone gets banned at one casino for counting, they're banned at most or all others. Amazing story!

    Now maybe you can splain how being gay is not a weird choice.
    Hasn't Rob famously said many times that the whole "casinos ban card counters" was a lie? He's even went and "asked" many pit bosses. Now he's saying they immediately ban them on site. Odd.

    When will you all realize he is just a degenerate, jealous, losing VP player and knows nothing about table games.
    Last edited by jbjb; 08-08-2017 at 11:36 AM.

  11. #311
    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    I am looking for my max bet opportunities, a TC of +3 or more.
    I understand.
    How often do you see a TC of +3 or more?
    Sadly...not often enough. lol. The frequency of TC +3, depends on the game....mostly number of decks and penetration. TC+3 will occur more in double games than 6 deck games and will occur more often with deeper penetration. But for a very average 6 deck game, with 1.5 decks cut off (75% pen), about 9% of the time. For comparison, the same game with deeper penetration of 1 deck cut off will be roughly 11%. and a double deck game of average penetration could be as high as 13-14%.

    But let's stick to the very common, very average 6 deck game at 75% pen. IF you play through every hand, whether the count goes negative, positive or neutral, you will see 9% at +3 or more. So for each 100 hands played, you will see TC +3, 9 times. But what if each time the count went negative, you jumped to another game, whether a game with a count already positive, as I try to do, or even just a new game starting at zero? Now for every 100 hands played you will see (and play) more TC+3's. You are basically increasing the number of max bet opportunities per 100 rounds played.


    Originally Posted by coach belly View Post
    Doesn't the pit see all the small cards coming out, and that the count is way positive.

    Don't they notice the player min betting all of the sudden jump all over a big positive count?
    If the pit (or surveillance) is sitting there watching you and every round, sure they should notice this. But that is rarely the case. Pit personnel are actually spread pretty thin these days. One of the cost cutting things that the accounting corporate types implemented in recent years has been less pit personnel and more tables per pit person. Same with surveillance. Unless it is a particularly slow time, these guys and gals are usually fairly busy with chip fills, opening and closing tables, changing cards, and players from multiple tables buying in and cashing out. It is rare that a pit person is standing there watching me and my game and if they are, it is probably time to move on.

    A sudden jump in bet isn't the problem. That occurs all the time, with system players, players parlaying wins and chasing losses. The problem is retreating back to that small, minimum wager at the shuffle after betting bigger the previous shoe. THAT is the big tell. You can avoid that by just moving on after you have shown your spread, rather than retreating back to the small wager. THIS is one of the advantages of Vegas. Just move on to the next game and/or casino.

    And with that....I am off to the next casino. I already spent about an hour longer than intended to here this morning. lol
    Last edited by kewlJ; 08-08-2017 at 11:39 AM.

  12. #312
    I'd like to see how card counting is done from another table. At Caesars Palace the only way is by turning around in your seat because the tables are side by side, and players are facing towards the middle of each table. To see the action at the next table you'd have to swivel at least 90-degrees in your seat.

    Having a spotter would be the way to "see" another table.

    By the way, I've never seen blackjack tables set up at any casino where players wouldn't have to actually turn in their chairs to view another table and there is a reason for this. Studies have shown that when you are playing in a closed environment such as in a room with dividers you gamble more money. Cosmopolitan was designed this way.

  13. #313
    I'm going to guess that he doesn't sit while playing.

  14. #314
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    I'm going to guess that he doesn't sit while playing.
    Yes that certainly helps him fly under the radar.

  15. #315
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    I'm going to guess that he doesn't sit while playing.
    Yes that certainly helps him fly under the radar.
    I dont think it's that. I think, as he's said, is showing your spread once, maybe twice, then leaving, win or lose. Don't give floor personnel time to study you. Camping out spreading all day in the same place is what gets most caught.

  16. #316
    Just how quickly can a card counter discover the count. Jbjb?

    Are you saying that without a spotter a lone card counter can use hit and run card counting techniques?

    Explain this to me slowly.

  17. #317
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Just how quickly can a card counter discover the count. Jbjb?

    Are you saying that without a spotter a lone card counter can use hit and run card counting techniques?

    Explain this to me slowly.
    Are you talking about tracking two tables at once like he does? If so, he'll have to answer as I've never played that way. I think he's even admitted that watching a second table while actively playing on another, he doesn't get quite an accurate count. It definitely take much practice.

    When I talk about showing your spread and leaving, once you get higher bets out, leave at the end of that shoe or of the count tanks. It's easier to do this in Vegas because of the number of tables and proximity to each other. This would be more difficult in an area where there are much fewer tables and casinos.

    Let me add that most Vegas casinos will just back you off. Barrings are rare these days for counters.

  18. #318
    Let me clarify my question to be just one table. How many hands do you have to see to know the count?

  19. #319
    If you want 100% accuracy, you track all of the cards dealt that are exposed. Missing a few cards is like having less penetration into the shoe.

  20. #320
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    If you want 100% accuracy, you track all of the cards dealt that are exposed. Missing a few cards is like having less penetration into the shoe.
    Please, I need to know. How many hands dealt do you have to see to know the count as an AP?

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