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Thread: The WoV Thread

  1. #481
    @KJ — The website is just an accumulation of some of the scams SA has done. This isn’t news and people have known about it for quite some time. I know people that have been scammed by him, I’ve met (but don’t “know”) people who’ve been scammed by him. I know people who’ve almost gotten scammed by him and friend of a friend who’s gotten scammed by him.

    Hell, I’ve even witnessed him (indirectly) on a play scamming someone - I was made aware of it after the fact (there was a legit AP play, so it didn’t seem out of the ordinary to see one of his minions playing there).

    There are mugshots and court documents on him and his BS. There are posts (the blog) by Dancer and a Porsche(?) forum about his scams.

    I’ve warned many people about him and the response I’d get was either “yeah he scammed me already”, “he almost scammed me”, or “thanks, I’ll watch out” (just to be followed up with another response a few weeks/months later thanking me again because he tried to scam him).

    Unfortunately, I thought most of his scams were for smaller amounts, maybe $10k at the most, but usually in the $500-$3k range. Like your run of the mill, “Hey I’m out in BFE and found X play, can you wire me $4k? I have no money” or “if you want action that’s fine but I need money from you to show good faith. I’ll give you 50% if the profit plus $4k back.” Or something like that. Plus he pulled over a bunch of scams on casinos (pretty far in the grey area, but possibly legal).


    It’s not like he scammed someone out of a few hundred or thousand and people are making a mountain out of a mole hill. He carefully crafted his image on forums and within the AP community as a whole (and likely other communities, considering he scammed someone out of a Porsche) with the sole intent on scamming people.

    This isn’t all “baseless facts” or some conjured up stories made by 1 person that made some website.

  2. #482
    I just finished a big bag of popcorn and the SAP/WON thread. At least for tonight. Not looking good for Mission. Why was a known sockpuppet not only not banned but allowed to advertise for more suckers? That's the sticking point that the green inkers won't explain. And with all the testimonials about the warnings going around WoV circles how does Mission not know the dude was bad news? Was it like "hey, pass it around that dude is bad news....but don't tell Mission."

    I like the anonymous person that created the webpage. It's like Sammy the Bull "Yeah, Gotti's a double-crosser, but I'm a master double-crosser!" He's telling WoN "So you think you know how to fuck people, eh? Well, watch this! I'm gonna fuck you right up the ass with steel wool, bitch! Boom! Up comes the website. I love it. WoN finally screwed someone over that knows how to screw right back.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  3. #483
    BTW in case the website gets taken down for whatever reason: https://pastebin.com/q5BXQW5x

  4. #484
    I have to say this about doxxing. In our niche of the gambling world, those that play against the house, it's not welcome. But poker players aren't the same way. Screw them over and you'll get doxxed all to hell and back.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  5. #485
    So mission resigned.

    The king is dead, long live the king.
    What, Me Worry?

  6. #486
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    So mission resigned.

    The king is dead, long live the king.
    Still won't answer the main question. Why was a sockpuppet with a bad reputation not only not banned but allowed to advertise for more suckers?
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  7. #487
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    So mission resigned.

    The king is dead, long live the king.
    I had some PMs with Mission during the football season. I asked him if he wanted half of my free weekly bet action from the contests around town. I told him I hardly take the time to fill them out and usually just random the picks. It's time consuming and it's not something that is easy. He said he enjoyed analyzing football games and would like to do it for fun. I had to beg and force 50% of any winnings on him. He didn't feel comfortable about getting 50% if we won. I told him hissycocka! You get 50% when you partner with me in just about anything. Next he was worried about taxes saying I need to take his share of taxes out on my end. I told him it's in my name, I don't worry about that. So when he had time he would get the picks in and I'd plug them in. It didn't work for us for long because I self banned myself and after that told the Wiz to jump. However the point is Mission is a family guy and all around good to work with. I also had asked him about WoN because WoN was PMing me to call him and had this play and that but no money. I told Mission WoN told me he makes 500k per year and now can't raise capital. Who's dumb enough to fall for that line? Younger, less experienced Gamblers I suppose. I can see that. Mission told me that he heard that WoN scams people and best not to work with him. Truth be told I wasn't ever going to work with WoN, I was just fishing for some information. Mission seems square to me and still does. I'd work with him if something came up but most likely won't.

    It's clear that WoV has some inner circles and the brat pack inner circle won this time. They had their sites on BBB last time with my pingpangpong incident but missed. I suspect they will try again soon to dethrone her as well. That's life. Who cares? It's all just entertainment for us armchair quarterbacks. I hope to see Mission around here though... he's good people as some of you like to say.

    What's funny is yesterday everyone was upset and basically saying off with Missions head. He resigns and everyone is saying oh what a tragedy... come back Mission lol!
    Last edited by monet; 03-13-2018 at 07:35 AM.

  8. #488
    Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
    it is getting heated there.
    I remember a day when simply suggesting that the members should be treated as valued customers rather than leeches that take take and take would get someone nuked.

    But look how mission is left to twist in the wind. No other mods defend him. Sure they comment on the abilities of the mods when hewas accused of selling personal info or giving personal info to WON.

    But other than clarifying the software available to them.....its all on mission to resolve the issue that has the crowd with torches out in the public square.

    I think his luke warm recognition of WON being a conman is hurting. You know the ..i dont have hard proof of the things being said.....shows a sense of devotion to him. A sense of loyalty.

    there is no comment like "i cant believe I associated with that conman,,,if even one of those stories is true it makes me sick ". If he hammers WON, then maybe WON goes on another board and spills some beans abour his days with mission. So maybe for self preservation reasons he needs to temper his comments.

    I am sensitive to people and their ability to make a living and support a family. But is he naive? I mean he said he was thinking of resigning as a mod, but is asking the wiz if it would adversely effect his writing articles for pay on wov. WTF???????? If he loses his credibility to be a mod.....then what cred would his articles have??

    I think most people are skeptical of his reaction , his deleting the original post rather than editing it, his lack of stated remorse for hanging with won, his inability to pass judgement based on some real credible stories. Thats what is causing issues with people. He is just way to laid back as far as finding out that an associate of his has mug shots, and has public records of charges against him, and stories upon stories of con jobs.

    the initial reaction is one of protection of his associate rather than outrage. Thats what makes people think there is a story yet told regarding mission.

    thats my analysis.....
    yes we know. You have one on every subject.So many words too

  9. #489
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    I just finished a big bag of popcorn and the SAP/WON thread. At least for tonight. Not looking good for Mission. Why was a known sockpuppet not only not banned but allowed to advertise for more suckers? That's the sticking point that the green inkers won't explain. And with all the testimonials about the warnings going around WoV circles how does Mission not know the dude was bad news? Was it like "hey, pass it around that dude is bad news....but don't tell Mission."

    I like the anonymous person that created the webpage. It's like Sammy the Bull "Yeah, Gotti's a double-crosser, but I'm a master double-crosser!" He's telling WoN "So you think you know how to fuck people, eh? Well, watch this! I'm gonna fuck you right up the ass with steel wool, bitch! Boom! Up comes the website. I love it. WoN finally screwed someone over that knows how to screw right back.
    Allowing him to advertise was one issue that ALL the mods and wiz allowed.
    But the other thing is the optics of mission sitting at a table with WON and darkoz(a wov member) and the aftermath of darkoz's daughter losing 4k. Its a bad visual. And the reaction to it by mission was something like :i didnt say a word:. Not outrage, not empathy, not even an apology to darkoz if he thought his presence was vouching for WON. When presented with Dancers articles, police mug shots, court documents, and other stories....mission was rather subdued in his response. no response ike "i cant belive I hung out with this con man"...or "he is bad news" or he us a fucking scumbag. After all he worked with him and was supposedly recently enlightened by all of this. And his response was anything but shocked.

  10. #490
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    @KJ — The website is just an accumulation of some of the scams SA has done. This isn’t news and people have known about it for quite some time. I know people that have been scammed by him, I’ve met (but don’t “know”) people who’ve been scammed by him. I know people who’ve almost gotten scammed by him and friend of a friend who’s gotten scammed by him.

    Hell, I’ve even witnessed him (indirectly) on a play scamming someone - I was made aware of it after the fact (there was a legit AP play, so it didn’t seem out of the ordinary to see one of his minions playing there).

    There are mugshots and court documents on him and his BS. There are posts (the blog) by Dancer and a Porsche(?) forum about his scams.

    I’ve warned many people about him and the response I’d get was either “yeah he scammed me already”, “he almost scammed me”, or “thanks, I’ll watch out” (just to be followed up with another response a few weeks/months later thanking me again because he tried to scam him).

    Unfortunately, I thought most of his scams were for smaller amounts, maybe $10k at the most, but usually in the $500-$3k range. Like your run of the mill, “Hey I’m out in BFE and found X play, can you wire me $4k? I have no money” or “if you want action that’s fine but I need money from you to show good faith. I’ll give you 50% if the profit plus $4k back.” Or something like that. Plus he pulled over a bunch of scams on casinos (pretty far in the grey area, but possibly legal).


    It’s not like he scammed someone out of a few hundred or thousand and people are making a mountain out of a mole hill. He carefully crafted his image on forums and within the AP community as a whole (and likely other communities, considering he scammed someone out of a Porsche) with the sole intent on scamming people.

    This isn’t all “baseless facts” or some conjured up stories made by 1 person that made some website.
    Well said. Also, the website is only an accumulation of PUBLIC information regarding Jeff Toll that has already come to light. I suspect there is a lot more information that has not yet been released. Remember, Jeffrey Toll's criminal activity goes beyond the scope of casinos/gambling-- there have been several accounts of romance scams/thefts that have not yet been made public. Name:  7AOMWWt.jpg
Views: 422
Size:  17.8 KB

    He was arrested for domestic abuse several times and has threatened multiple people with physical violence.

  11. #491
    What about the flip side? You have Dancer and DarkOz and DarkOzs daughter making deals upfront with cash first for freeplay later. Nobody is innocent in such dealings. This is not an honest trade if honest trades really do exist?

    No contracts or checks paid to leave an IRS money trail. You make cash transactions like this and you realize it's high risk at best!

    I've had people try to sell me free play. They want the cash upfront for the month. I tell them I'll do it... I'll give you 50% of the total mail at the end of the month no matter what I win or lose. I have to take the time and risk to pick it all up so you have to wait for your money. You don't like it... take a hike but I'm not forking over cash upfront.
    Last edited by monet; 03-13-2018 at 09:24 AM.

  12. #492
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    I just caught a post by Mission in the Pennsylvania thread where he said that class III machines outnumber class II machines in Oklahoma. The ratio looks to be about 25% class II to 75% class III to me. The class II machines have the bingo cards on them and are made by Video Gaming Technologies. They make class II machines exclusively but are owned by Aristocrat.
    There's a couple companies that make the Class IIs another one is Multimedia Games

  13. #493
    Any guesses as to who will be elevated to fill the empty mod slot?
    What, Me Worry?

  14. #494
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    It's clear that WoV has some inner circles
    NO! You don't say?? Tell me more.

    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    ....and the brat pack inner circle won this time.
    Waking up to the Mission resignation, I was thinking about it while cleaning the pool this morning. I see a parallel between Missions actions, siding with and protecting a friend or someone he knew personally (whether intentional in Missions case or not) and Mike having done the same thing with the Qfit situation.

    Both were about an administrator playing favoritism and showing the forum in a bad light. It is funny how Mission's head rolled, while Mike just weathered a similar outcry with his "my way or the hyway" and "don't let the door hit you in the ass" attitude. Makes me think of the Mel Brook's line "It's good to be King".

    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    They had their sites on BBB last time with my pingpangpong incident but missed. I suspect they will try again soon to dethrone her as well.
    Speaking of the "Queen B" over-moderator Babs, going unnoticed (or uncommented on) in this ordeal was Bab's 14 day suspension of member 'OutsideTheBox'. First a warning that OTB was getting dangerously close to a personal attack. And then a suspension martingaled x3 (out of the blue). The way the martingale is supposed to work is 3 days for first offense, 7 days for second and 14 days for third, as I understand it. But over-moderator BBB just chose to make her own rules as she goes, in this case because the offense involved someone she liked or pretended to like (Mission).

    That in a nutshell is why WoV is out of control and on a snowballing decline.

  15. #495
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    Any guesses as to who will be elevated to fill the empty mod slot?
    I vote for re-installation and then elevation of LarryS! He is a customer service type guys looking out for his neighbors.

  16. #496
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    Any guesses as to who will be elevated to fill the empty mod slot?
    Since I have over 20 screen names over there that are in good standing I would like to see either RS, Maxpen or The Boz take the spot but my number 1 pick would be Roger Kint although AxelWolf would be good as well. All five members are the most honest, moral and trustworthy Gamblers of all time. You can't go wrong with any of them. However, I'd like to see Mike dismiss all employees or mods and take full control as dictator able to do anything without question or recourse!

  17. #497
    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    Since I have over 20 screen names over there that are in good standing I would like to see either RS, Maxpen or The Boz take the spot but my number 1 pick would be Roger King although AxelWolf would be good as well.
    I disagree with Axelwolf! First he likely is already a "secret Mod. And second, he has aligned himself too closely to Mike, making him nothing but a 'yes man'. Axel has even frequently admitted his protectionism of his friend Mike. Does that site need more of THAT?

    Originally Posted by monet View Post
    However, I'd like to see Mike dismiss all employees or mods and take full control as head dictator able to do anything without question or recourse!
    Doesn't Mike already have this? He answers to no one. I can think of one situation where a 4 year positive contributing member with no history of any disturbances was banned when Mike took sides with an outsider member / friend who joined, used and manipulated Mike JUST to force that decision. At least 3 moderators expressed to Mike their disapproval of his handling of that situation and he dismissed them all. So the "head dictator" status has already long been in effect.

  18. #498
    For the record, BBB KNEW damn well WoN was SAP as also. Any denial by her is a bold faced lie!

  19. #499
    WTF is going on here?? KewlJ and I are in total agreement! Truth be told I thought KewlJ and others had me on ignore so they couldn't read my posts lol. Ok, ok, ok, you caught me KewlJ... I was just setting up some pins so someone could knock them down. I was going to say AW was a secret mod as well but wanted to see if anyone else would step up. Nicely Done!

    The real truth is we all have a past. I am sure that we could find some fault or conflict of interest in any Mod over at WoV and get them expelled if they are honest about it. That's just life. We are all tainted. It is pretty obvious that some WoVers got hit hard by WoN recently so the hammer came down. I didn't hear anyone crying about WoN a year ago that much or for the time in between until now. They got all up in arms when I got banned for life and a few days later WoN was outed but no pitchforks about him scamming people or beating up his wife. Anyways... who cares... you ain't gonna stop this behavior and I am sure they have more than just WoN over there scamming. That's just the way it is in this world. The damn old lady over at the corner store is skimming the till from her boss... so what this is an every day occurrence. Even my wife steals silverware and tablecloths from her work. Heck the busboys and cooks walk out with whole sides of beef and whatever else they want. This is the it is.

  20. #500
    Over the last 2 years (this week) I have often been critical of Mike and his decisions, so I think it is only fair to applaud one in which I agree.

    (Follows is an excerpt from Wizard's statement)

    As mission stated, we put a high priority on protecting personal information here. Providing a link to the site I felt was in effect posting of personal information. That WoN resigned does not lift his protection. I oppose posting of private information of anyone, including the likes of Larry Nasser.

    AP's (and others) join WoV and other sites like this one, with the understanding that their personal information will be protected against doxing. Without that understood assurance no AP's would participate. Even with that understood assurance most AP's do not participate.

    There is no grey area. No objectivity that such and such is a bad person who has scammed various people and members. Identities are to be protected period! The exception would be a case that rises to the level of criminality involving law enforcement and in such a situation law enforcement with proper authority would be given the personal identities and information. Other than that no matter how nasty and vile the offender is, such as the case of this member / con artist or an even more extreme example that Mr. Shackleford used, Larry Nassar, those protections absolutely must be honored.
    Last edited by kewlJ; 03-13-2018 at 10:13 AM.

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