"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
Or, to put it in historic terms,
"One of these days in your travels, a guy is going to show you a brand new deck of cards on which the seal is not yet broken. Then this guy is going to offer to bet you that he can make the jack of spades jump out of this brand new deck of cards and spit cider in your ear. But, son, do not accept this bet, because as sure as you stand there, you're going to wind up with an earful of cider."
Sky Masterson. (Guys and Dolls; 1955)
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
Did you read the wired article? The reason Kane kept his winnings is because the casinos didn't come after him. And the prosecution had a hard time identifying where it came from.
The reason Nester had to give up his winnings is because the casino came after him. It was easier to know where Nester's winnings came from since he went back to the same casino again and again and again. And the IRS is still after Nester. From the article: "Nestor says the Meadows still has his winnings, and the IRS is chasing him for $239,861.04 in back taxes, interest, and penalties—money he doesn't have."
I get no one can prove anything. But common sense should tell you if someone really won $2.8 million through illegal means (and regardless of what you think, this is what the DUB was) they would not want to open up a can of worms and brag about it. There is no way to know where this could lead. Most smart people would keep quite and take it to the grave.
Now if someone didn't win $2.8 million through illegal means, then they might want to have fun with it and brag about it.
That's my only point. I get it doesn't prove anything.
lol....This is exactly what the casinos want you to think. That they could have gotten their money back if they wanted and the prosecution just didn't have enough evidence.
These are the same casinos that are working daily with their district attorneys to get people who are late paying their markers charged with felony bad check writing. Casinos are notoriously possessive of their money. You don't think they'd try to get back a half million if they had any shot at it? Think again.
They just don't want to be held responsible next time their gambling devices don't work the way they think they do. I also wouldn't be surprised if Game King paid off some of the losses back to the casinos to prevent further publicity. They probably had the most culpability of all as I'm sure those machines are certified tested to the GCB to work as designed.
I agree with most of what you said. Everybody bungled this one, so it was best to just sweep it under the rug and move on for all parties, the prosecutors, the casinos and IGT.
But this doesn’t mean if it was handled differently, this could have been really bad for Kane and Nester. What they did is illegal and they kind of knew it.
That’s my whole point. If someone ever exploits something like this for several years (and it’s probably happened), if they are smart, they won’t brag about it. They will take it to their grave and be glad they got away with it.
And one more point, Meadows casino in Pennsylvania did get their money back from Nester. He didn’t get to keep it. Why? Because he won it illegally.
If casinos knew how much Kane took from them, I’m sure those casinos would have got their money back too.
If you read it again you'll see that his money was seized and handed back to Meadows when he was originally charged. This never went to trial.
The rub is that he got the money. The money was given back to Meadows. The IRS wants taxes on the money that was seized. He can't pay the IRS. He can't pay attorneys to fight the casino to get his money back.
No question he's screwed but that doesn't mean he did anything criminal. I don't think he did anything illegal. That's why all charges were dropped against both. But that was only after 18 months of costly legal battles. They pissed off the gambling establishment that's the life blood of the State of Nevada and many locals across the country. There are repercussions for that whether or not your actions are legal.
I think there is a law and Alan quoted it.
5. To place or increase a bet after acquiring knowledge of the outcome of the game or other event which is the subject of the bet, including past-posting and pressing bets.
This is exactly what they did, changed the bet amount (denomination) after the outcome of the game or event. Like I said, when people think of this they think of capping a table game bet with more chips. They did the same thing, just did so electronically.
Pennsylvania and other jurisdictions probably haven't been in the game long enough to know how to handle this. But if this had been taken to court here in Nevada and this #5 law cited, it would have been game over. Nevada knows how to protect their casino industry.
It would be interesting to hear Bob N's take on this. I wonder if he would have taken this case? Seems like I may have discussed this case with him briefly at one point, but I can't seem to remember. Must not have made an impression on me. Axelwolf or anyone else, have you ever discussed this with Bob N?
Last edited by kewlJ; 05-23-2020 at 08:42 PM.
Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".
I guess I agree with you on #1. I see it kind of like the Phil Ivey edge sorting scandal. Technically, Phil didn’t do anything illegal, but the courts, both in Britain and here, ruled he had to give the money back to the casinos because he violated the spirit of the game, or something like that.
Technically, Kane and Nester didn’t do anything illegal, but when they got caught they had to give it back, if the casinos could show they took it.
Bottom line is if I found something like DUB, I would have exploited it for a lot more than only $2.8 million in 5 years. That’s nothing for how easy this play was once you knew how to activate it. And you’d have never seen me brag about it. It’s hard to know how these things turn out, so it’s better to keep your trap shut all the way to your grave.
I still think had Rob really done it, he wouldn’t have risked anything by bragging about it. If he didn’t do it, then why not have some fun with this group. I mean there’s a sucker born everyday, and we definitely have a couple suckers on this forum.
Ok. That's interesting. In the same section there another paragraph that might apply:
"7. To manipulate, with the intent to cheat, any component of a gaming device in a manner contrary to the designed and normal operational purpose for the component, including, but not limited to, varying the pull of the handle of a slot machine, with knowledge that the manipulation affects the outcome of the game or with knowledge of any event that affects the outcome of the game."
What's also interesting is these are the "2013 REVISED STATUTES". I wonder if these were written after the fact to address the double up bug.
Dan Druff: "there's no question that MDawg has been an obnoxious braggart, and has rubbed a ton of people the wrong way. There's something missing from his stories. Either they're fabricated, grossly exaggerated, or largely incomplete".
In my original post on the Nevada law I mentioned sections 5, 6 and 7. Mr Kewlj agreed with 5. Section 7 also applies with these key words:
" in a manner contrary to the designed and normal operational purpose"
Simply, machines were not designed to allow you to change denominations by pressing any buttons after an outcome is known. Section 7 provides reinforcement to Section 5.
I don't know if Sections 5, 6, 7 were changed or added because of the DUB or if they were there for years and years. What I can tell you, which is what I told you before, is that I ACTUALLY CALLED AND SPOKE WITH THE GAMING ENFORCEMENT OFFICE OF THE NGC IN LAS VEGAS AND YOU SHOULD DO THE SAME INSTEAD OF MAKING UP YOUR OWN THEORIES.
Nestor share joint account roommate, roommate handed money freely. Not confiscated.
Yes, I'm enjoying watching the real freakshow "As Stoogeboy Maxpenn and KJocchio Turns." Hilarious how Rob has you two squealing like pigs with your noses in your computers 24 hours a day looking for something, anything that will prove Rob wrong. All this while Rob is on a lengthy vacation enjoying himself. You can't make this shit up.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
Mr Crimm the regulations I quoted are NEVADA regulations. I don't know the laws in other jurisdictions. But I want to remind you that these regulations were not used in the case against Kane and Nestor.
I found out about these regulations only when I discussed the claims of Mr Singer and his statute of limitations defense with the NGC.
If what Mr Singer claims to be true is true he will not be prosecuted.
That doesn't mean his claims are true, however.
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