"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
Your colorful drunken spew aside.......how many times are you going to threaten to shoot, slap, beat, poison, or blow me before you actually get the courage to visit me in Arizona or South Dakota (which is closer to your dumpy apt.) or to man up and go see coach? And guess how much better it is to be wirey and in shape than fat and worthless after years of the alcohol eating your organs away....and the nicotine rotting your lungs out!
Another dumb question. Are you guys really going at each other? Or is this like those guys in the Clint Eastwood movie Gran Torino. No offense, but I read it as a Gran Torino script. Funny as all hell.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
Well this forum is a complete joke. I thought it was going to be different here, so this is my last post, but the amount of garbage the admins let go on in each thread and the straying of off topic conversations about endless bullshit is ridiculous.
Let me also comment on the backcounting and 'unseen cards' and counting two tables topic. For the idiots here who say you can't make money or gain EV by just 'watching' are just showing their ignorance of the game. Of course you're not 'gaining EV' by watching, but what you're doing is you're 'SAVING' money by not placing money in a negative expectation round waiting for the count to go up. Because of this it's addition by subtraction. You are getting to the long run quicker and your win rate goes up because your win rate doesn't decrease by placing negative expectation bets.
If any of you idiots even know about the blackjack metric 'N-ZERO' which is the amount of rounds in blackjack it takes to have an 84% chance of being ahead, you will quickly realize for a pure backcounter, the N-zero is around 13-15k with decent to average rules. Someone who plays off the top and plays negative wagers even if he wongs out aggressively will have a N-zero around 20k-25k. Now what does all of this mean? The pure backcounter if he jumps in at +1 will be playing 25% of those 13-15k rounds thereby having only about 3.5k rounds of actually PLAYING. If the pure backcounter only plays +2 and higher, he will play only 16% of the rounds 'observed' and the N0 will generally be about 200 roudns less(better). So not only has this backcounter now reduced his risk due to many less 'playing' rounds as well as having a general N-zero that is better than the guy who is placing wagers off the top in negative expectation bets. The guy who plays off the top and plays the whole shoe regardless of the count or one who wongs out aggressively is PLAYING a lot but he's also playing a lot of negative expectation bets and because of this will take about 20-25k rounds depending on his wong out approach to reach his N-ZERO so although he is PLAYING more, he is playing inefficiently and will have to see a lot more rounds than the pure backcounter who is saving money by 'viewing' these negative rounds rather than 'playing' these negative rounds.
The point of all this and I wouldn't expect any degenerates on here to understand which is why there is so much ignorance in one thread. The reason is these degenerates have a different way of viewing 'gambling'. These guys need 'action', they don't understand the theoretical aspect of advantage play and what it means to have an advantage or an edge over a game. If they're not actually playing, there first instinct is 'how can you make money?", and the answer is twofold. Yes, you CANNOT make money by not playing, but you also cannot LOSE money. You are SAVING money by not placing negative expectation bets, which lets you get to the long run quicker, increases your win rate, and reduces your risk substantially. With that being said, if you're backcounting two tables and both of them go positive, you obviously can only jump into one, so the rounds you 'observed' at the other table DO NOT count towards the long run since you never got to play that shoe so it's as if you weren't even there. Now if you had a team to take advantage of that, then yes it would count, but for a solo player, that is not correct.
Peace out trolls, this forum is a joke.
Last edited by ZenKinG; 08-14-2018 at 08:25 PM.
Alriiighty then. Guess you answered that question. But I'm telling ya, you guys should be joke writers for a sitcom or something. Classic stuff.
Alligator mouth and hummingbird ass. Wearing a Tuba for a hat. Colorful drunkin spew. Fuck you, geriatric. The guys love this stuff. You guys are changing the language of an entire city. LMAO
We call a guy the "Pulling Guard" because no one can get around him at a buffet. When he starts talking he never shuts up. My 82 year old 82 pound friend Lou told him if he didn't shut his alligator mouth that his hummingbird ass would be flying all over him. For the first time in history. Pulling guard was speechless.
Last edited by Moses; 08-14-2018 at 08:27 PM.
Good points ZenKing. My approach had to change to "I can't make money if I'm not allowed to play." But this sounds like shoe rhetoric so I'll leave that up to you and KJ.
Now, in sports betting, I can't lose money if I don't bet. Thus I have the luxury of being very selective. Sort of like the King picking out a girlfriend.
Good post Zenking. Correct on all points, including the state of this site. Some of us that take gambling seriously have tried to convince Dan to have this site go in a more productive direction, which in turn would have drawn more serious players. Dan has refused. He apparently enjoys a garbage site, with personal attacks.
One of the great things about my career, is that I got to "reset" after my learning stage and implement things that I personally had learned. My first 5 and a half years was playing Atlantic City, first playing very low red chip level and then moving to low green chip level. By the end of those 5 and a half years I had learned two really big things.
1.) In this day and age, with less favorable rules, like H17 and surrender becoming very rare, the 'play all' approach that card counters had implemented for decades was no longer realistic. Play all under these conditions will result in a player just spinning his wheels, maybe grinding his way to a very small advantage.....a fraction of 1%, and experiencing tremendously high variance to get there. The play all approach has to be abandoned, with the player "escaping" at least some of the negative counts, preferably the most negative counts. There are various ways to do this, ranging from a pure wong-in, meaning you are ONLY playing advantageous situations, to a a play off the top and wong-out aggressively, escaping the worst of the negative counts, to just taking some strategic bathroom and phone call breaks, also escaping the very worst of the negative counts.
2.) second big thing was that a player needs a large rotation of stores and playing reasonably short sessions so that they are not seeing the same dealers and pit on a daily basis as I was in AC. Many players accomplish this by extensive travel. I chose a different path.
So I personally got to "reset" my career based on these things that I learned through trial and error in Atlantic City. So I moved to Vegas, providing me with that larger rotation of playable games. No place else offers as many playable games in such close proximity. They may not be the best games on the planet, but they are playable and abundant within a very short distance.
For the second part, I chose short sessions and playing off the top of a fresh shuffle with an aggressive wong out, as opposed to a pure wong-in. Since I play mostly the outer ring 'locals' casino circuit and often tables are not crowded, I just felt like pure backcounting (wong-in) was to much of an attention draw.
After moving here, because of those less crowded conditions, I was able to start tracking a second and occasionally third table at the same time I was playing my primary table. Of course the non educated BJ types here, have no clue to this, but this essentially acts as a pure wong-in opportunity, on top of my regular aggressive wong out regular play. Sort of a 'best of both worlds'. And it has served me very well. Solves all problems.
I know you have adopted the pure backcounting or wong-in approach and I wish you well. Just be careful. Try to gauge if it is drawing too much heat prior to THAT becoming a problem.
JSTAT on casinos, poker, and blackjack/baccarat card counting without charge. Saying what needs to said at https://twitter.com/Casino_Examiner
You are a funny (odd) guy JSTAT.
A couple comments from your video. First, you cards are severely warped. Geez, the shuffled 6 deck stack reaches about 8 inched high. You need to change out the cards like the casinos do. Ok that comment is just in fun.
Second, your demonstration, with 4 players playing and the open spot in the middle that you hope to jump to during a positive count, is one of the drawbacks of pure back-counting or "wong-in". We have all experienced it, you waste a few minutes back counting and just as the count gets juicy a couple players swoop in and gobble up the last couple spots. Sometimes other back counters, sometimes just bad timing with ploppies.
Even with my tracking a second table, this sometimes occurs. My game is neutral, the table next door is heading positive and just as I am preparing for my "jump" someone beats me to it. Just one of those annoying little things in life. Now our friend, Zenking here is "cursed", so this probably happens to him more than most of us.
How many is large? How few is short? FWIW, I've been working on a 4 to 6 store rotation with 2 shifts for a few years. No more Gyard for me. 100 hands is considered a long session. 7 hands is the shortest. 20 sessions a week is all I need to get all I want.
Speaking from experience, consider the game as a marathon and not a sprint. In the beginning winning was my only objective. But a win today, Play tomorrow approach puts far more dollars in your pocket as time goes on.
"More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ
I have anywhere from 30 to 3 dozen casinos in my rotation at any time. And those games are split into several levels. The best of them, I push the envelope and play 5-6 times a month, trying hard to mix up days and shifts. The next group I play 2-4 times a month and the final group, just once or twice a month. That final group is sort of the auxiliary group.
As much as filling out the rotation, I visit and play monthly just to keep track of the conditions (rules/penetration) and be sure they haven't improved, in which case I would move them up in the rotation. I also may need to move them up should another game in the rotation suddenly deteriorate, change rules or penetration for the worse, which occasionally happens. And sometimes if I suffer a backoff or two, or sense heat that I back myself off for a "cooling down" period, I may move one of these one-a-month games up temporarily. Particularly a backoff or heat situation involving on of the chain casinos. I may remove the entire chain, from my rotation for a month or so and need to fill out the rotation.
I hear ya. I refer to this as the shear vs slaughter dilemma. Maybe a better analogy would be milking vs slaughter.
I like to credit the many folks who I have learned from along my journey, when I can and to this note it was Stanford Wong who said something along the lines of learning to be a successful card counter is less about counting and putting the money out at the right time and more about learning how to be welcome to continue to do so. Bigplayer also said something along those lines, but it was Stanford that I read it first.
Like you, I very much dislike graveyard. I prefer day shift and have gotten lazy and try to work regular hours more than I should. But I do mix in other shifts, including several days (nights) of graveyard that I schedule each month.
Kind of a stupid mistake standing on that A-4. Was taken to the woodshed in the YouTube comment section and other venues. Most of the video was accurate about Wonging. The 10 minute time limit imposed and three glasses of wine didn't help. Still won the hand
Thanks for watching
JSTAT on casinos, poker, and blackjack/baccarat card counting without charge. Saying what needs to said at https://twitter.com/Casino_Examiner
More to the point, the bigger joke is you.
What a load of bs you're spewing by claiming "how special it is to be such a knowledgeable AP who's smart enuf to not play bj when it's -EV" because you're "saving money".
First genius, theoretical armchair babble might get all the self-absorbed mensas and weirdos all wet at WoV, but there's people here who actually GO to casinos here, and real results are the name of the game.
Next, you people play -EV all the time when you're at tables where you're waiting for the count to go positive, so don't try to claim how cunning you are by not jumping into a negative table. Big whoop. Then the THEORY of bumping up bets begins to be told, yet casinos have countermeasures against that, and NONE of you are smarter than their cameras, computers, and programs. I understand the need for people who think they're super duper bj players to build up their perceived reputations on forums, yet when held to the fire kew etc. fold like cheap lawn chairs when asked to meet and prove their prowess.
You idiots are more transparent than you know.
Oh come on Monet! You know why his is constantly harassed there. Are you going to play dumb now.
Zenking brings some of that on himself. He makes it hard to like him and root for him with some of his antics and accusations, of "Chinese playing cards" and "mobbed up Las Vegas". And when the membership gives him a hard time that he sometimes deserves, he gets angry, cursing and generally not following the rules. And at this point the "over moderators" are just looking for him to suspend.
I think it is kind of a shame, because despite all his goofiness, Zenking represents the frustrations, including variance (ups and downs) that a card counter playing for a living goes through. It is kind of an accurate view into the rollercoaster ride that is card counting for a living. And I think that is good for anyone that might be possibly aspiring to take the card counting journey to see. Sort of a lost opportunity by WoV, in my opinion.
Interesting approach. I have my Big 4. I sorta have T times like that of a golfer. I know when to get the best quality hands straight up. The other 2 serve as fill ins. On a week that is full, like Hot August Nights or between Chrismas and New Years, I will go 25 the week before 10 the week of and 25 the week after.
Some of the graveyards have a shift change at 9am. So if I'm up and feeling chipper I will use those as fillers. A problem for me is few will bump the table min up to $100. They will for others, but not for me. Thus I caution ZK. So maybe I can catch a $100 table min on a weekend. But not usually for very long as it fills up quickly.
Last edited by Moses; 08-14-2018 at 11:36 PM.
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