Alan vs. KJ

[Mission146]

I'm going to try and not pick on Kewl but it just annoys me to see the sort of stuff he put out there. Just nonsense. I guess maybe I am being a bully.

Fact is if you have a high IQ you're going to have life a lot easier. Look at Mickey Crimm and his life. He has very little formal education but he went into a library popped off some books and has basically written some primers on how to do machine stuff. He clearly has a fairly high IQ. People without a reasonably high IQ would have never been able to do that sort of thing. Yet he isn't "book smart" ..

I read something recently where there was a study about people with high IQs in sales positions. IIRC it was posited that IQ wouldn't matter so much and it was more the social skills. It turned out that there was a huge correlation with IQ. Perhaps IQ mattered even more? (don't recall) Just the fluid intelligence/being able to think on one's feet are all an IQ thing. It isn't just figuring out puzzles on a test.

Even testing the upper bounds of IQ is kinda a joke. You can put a time limit on it, but then that can trigger testing anxiety issue or something. You can give people unlimited time and then people who are willing to put a lot of effort into stuff have higher scores.

It is a fascinating thing though. You just know there are people out there that understand things considerably beyond what you're even aware of....

I can definitely believe that with sales positions, but I think one would do best to have that rare combination of High IQ and rock solid social skills. As you mentioned, you have to be able to think on your feet---which involves getting a quick read on your mark...excuse me, customer...and figuring out what you need to say to manipulate them...excuse me...make clear the features and benefits of the product.

It's so much easier, in my opinion, with telemarketing because you don't have to regulate anything about your body language or facial expressions; it's all voice control, which is easy, if that's the only thing you have to focus on. The marks, I mean, customers, can often tell you're faking it if they can see your eyes.

So, I think the best salesperson has a high IQ, rock solid social skills and is also a sociopath. Being a sociopath would be a huge advantage because they could actually convince the customers that they care about their well-being and aren't just trying to get a commission. They would also tend (in my observations) to be better at warming the customers up with small talk, which I was absolutely never good at. Nothing beyond, "How are you today?", for me, when it comes to in-person sales, just right to business. I could do the small talk thing in telemarketing because, again, you only have to control your voice. With commissions, you could actually make pretty decent money (especially relative to the cost of living in that area) once upon a time if you were good at it.

Small talk was also easy in telemarketing because people LOVE talking about the weather. I never started the sales day without taking a hard look at the national weather map.

[accountinquestion]

I'm going to try and not pick on Kewl but it just annoys me to see the sort of stuff he put out there. Just nonsense. I guess maybe I am being a bully.

Fact is if you have a high IQ you're going to have life a lot easier. Look at Mickey Crimm and his life. He has very little formal education but he went into a library popped off some books and has basically written some primers on how to do machine stuff. He clearly has a fairly high IQ. People without a reasonably high IQ would have never been able to do that sort of thing. Yet he isn't "book smart" ..

I read something recently where there was a study about people with high IQs in sales positions. IIRC it was posited that IQ wouldn't matter so much and it was more the social skills. It turned out that there was a huge correlation with IQ. Perhaps IQ mattered even more? (don't recall) Just the fluid intelligence/being able to think on one's feet are all an IQ thing. It isn't just figuring out puzzles on a test.

Even testing the upper bounds of IQ is kinda a joke. You can put a time limit on it, but then that can trigger testing anxiety issue or something. You can give people unlimited time and then people who are willing to put a lot of effort into stuff have higher scores.

It is a fascinating thing though. You just know there are people out there that understand things considerably beyond what you're even aware of....

I can definitely believe that with sales positions, but I think one would do best to have that rare combination of High IQ and rock solid social skills. As you mentioned, you have to be able to think on your feet---which involves getting a quick read on your mark...excuse me, customer...and figuring out what you need to say to manipulate them...excuse me...make clear the features and benefits of the product.

It's so much easier, in my opinion, with telemarketing because you don't have to regulate anything about your body language or facial expressions; it's all voice control, which is easy, if that's the only thing you have to focus on. The marks, I mean, customers, can often tell you're faking it if they can see your eyes.

So, I think the best salesperson has a high IQ, rock solid social skills and is also a sociopath. Being a sociopath would be a huge advantage because they could actually convince the customers that they care about their well-being and aren't just trying to get a commission. They would also tend (in my observations) to be better at warming the customers up with small talk, which I was absolutely never good at. Nothing beyond, "How are you today?", for me, when it comes to in-person sales, just right to business. I could do the small talk thing in telemarketing because, again, you only have to control your voice. With commissions, you could actually make pretty decent money (especially relative to the cost of living in that area) once upon a time if you were good at it.

Small talk was also easy in telemarketing because people LOVE talking about the weather. I never started the sales day without taking a hard look at the national weather map.

I've never done sales. It is also something you would improve at over time. I have wondered before would I have been any good? THere are also many different types of scenarios you do sales.

Anyway my whole point here is just that people who tend to not have a high IQ want to write off generalized intelligence as something one can only use to solve test problems. That isn't anywhere near true. High intelligence really is a blessing in many ways but can also be a curse. Really smart people tend to not be as happy and have depression issues. Retards seem to tend to lie to themselves throughout their lives about whatever. Or maybe don't see the truth to begin with?

Top of AP world should be no different. People are never going to talk about really good plays anyway but the smartest amongst us will tend to have insight but who knows if they even post. I have a pretty high IQ but I'm also so incredibly undisciplined nothing useful has ever become of it. shrug

[Rob.Singer]

I'm going to try and not pick on Kewl but it just annoys me to see the sort of stuff he put out there. Just nonsense. I guess maybe I am being a bully.

Fact is if you have a high IQ you're going to have life a lot easier. Look at Mickey Crimm and his life. He has very little formal education but he went into a library popped off some books and has basically written some primers on how to do machine stuff. He clearly has a fairly high IQ. People without a reasonably high IQ would have never been able to do that sort of thing. Yet he isn't "book smart" ..

I read something recently where there was a study about people with high IQs in sales positions. IIRC it was posited that IQ wouldn't matter so much and it was more the social skills. It turned out that there was a huge correlation with IQ. Perhaps IQ mattered even more? (don't recall) Just the fluid intelligence/being able to think on one's feet are all an IQ thing. It isn't just figuring out puzzles on a test.

Even testing the upper bounds of IQ is kinda a joke. You can put a time limit on it, but then that can trigger testing anxiety issue or something. You can give people unlimited time and then people who are willing to put a lot of effort into stuff have higher scores.

It is a fascinating thing though. You just know there are people out there that understand things considerably beyond what you're even aware of....

I can definitely believe that with sales positions, but I think one would do best to have that rare combination of High IQ and rock solid social skills. As you mentioned, you have to be able to think on your feet---which involves getting a quick read on your mark...excuse me, customer...and figuring out what you need to say to manipulate them...excuse me...make clear the features and benefits of the product.

It's so much easier, in my opinion, with telemarketing because you don't have to regulate anything about your body language or facial expressions; it's all voice control, which is easy, if that's the only thing you have to focus on. The marks, I mean, customers, can often tell you're faking it if they can see your eyes.

So, I think the best salesperson has a high IQ, rock solid social skills and is also a sociopath. Being a sociopath would be a huge advantage because they could actually convince the customers that they care about their well-being and aren't just trying to get a commission. They would also tend (in my observations) to be better at warming the customers up with small talk, which I was absolutely never good at. Nothing beyond, "How are you today?", for me, when it comes to in-person sales, just right to business. I could do the small talk thing in telemarketing because, again, you only have to control your voice. With commissions, you could actually make pretty decent money (especially relative to the cost of living in that area) once upon a time if you were good at it.

Small talk was also easy in telemarketing because people LOVE talking about the weather. I never started the sales day without taking a hard look at the national weather map.

I've never done sales. It is also something you would improve at over time. I have wondered before would I have been any good? THere are also many different types of scenarios you do sales.

Anyway my whole point here is just that people who tend to not have a high IQ want to write off generalized intelligence as something one can only use to solve test problems. That isn't anywhere near true. High intelligence really is a blessing in many ways but can also be a curse. Really smart people tend to not be as happy and have depression issues. Retards seem to tend to lie to themselves throughout their lives about whatever. Or maybe don't see the truth to begin with?

Top of AP world should be no different. People are never going to talk about really good plays anyway but the smartest amongst us will tend to have insight but who knows if they even post. I have a pretty high IQ but I'm also so incredibly undisciplined nothing useful has ever become of it. shrug

Success in Sales & Marketing has less to do with the quality & need of the product and/or service--and a WHOLE lot more to do with you and your ability to develop the relationship. Doing what you said you were going to do, along with respectful communication throughout the process, are the #1 & #2 most important aspects of gaining your potential target's trust. IQ levels have nothing to do with this.

Trust=A Successful Endeavor. And this is why next to nobody has ever bought the concocted pile of bullshit that kew has been trying to sell.

[Mission146]

Success in Sales & Marketing has less to do with the quality & need of the product and/or service--and a WHOLE lot more to do with you and your ability to develop the relationship. Doing what you said you were going to do, along with respectful communication throughout the process, are the #1 & #2 most important aspects of gaining your potential target's trust. IQ levels have nothing to do with this.

Trust=A Successful Endeavor. And this is why next to nobody has ever bought the concocted pile of bullshit that kew has been trying to sell.

I don't know what your sales background is and it could well be more years than mine, or that could just be in your experience, but mine is that trust isn't really relevant. I tend to think that it might depend on what it is you are trying to sell, also. Whether it be furniture, hotel rooms or credit cards and credit card fee products...most of my sales experience lies in one-time transactions, so you don't really establish a long-term relationship.

I would think the only time that long-term relationships were relevant to anything I was doing was when dealing with booking blocks of rooms to either groups coming in for a special event, or to companies sending in workers, when I was in the hotel industry. I will say that the hotel providing what it said it was going to provide is of the utmost importance when dealing with those entities, and also giving concessions in the event of any sort of dispute with an eye towards the long-term business you will get from them, but that's just that market segment specifically.

In the telemarketing world, my, 'Relationship,' if you even wanted to call it that, began and ended with that phone call, so the sale was just a single transaction. Granted, you wanted the contact to basically like you and find you pleasant, but there really wasn't much in the way of trust-building or developing a relationship with them. There might have been a bit of relationship building for the long-term furniture sellers, more so than with me to be sure as I knew I wouldn't be doing it very long, but I think even the long-term sellers viewed most interactions as a single transaction.

So, when it comes to the concept of, 'Trust,' I think that's just a matter of what sort of sales you do. For my type of sales, I tend to think making a quick and positive first impression was the most relevant factor. People were naturally distrustful of telemarketers, and rightfully so, even if they already had business with the company---so the biggest thing there was just getting the customer's guard down.

[Mission146]

I've never done sales. It is also something you would improve at over time. I have wondered before would I have been any good? THere are also many different types of scenarios you do sales.

Anyway my whole point here is just that people who tend to not have a high IQ want to write off generalized intelligence as something one can only use to solve test problems. That isn't anywhere near true. High intelligence really is a blessing in many ways but can also be a curse. Really smart people tend to not be as happy and have depression issues. Retards seem to tend to lie to themselves throughout their lives about whatever. Or maybe don't see the truth to begin with?

Top of AP world should be no different. People are never going to talk about really good plays anyway but the smartest amongst us will tend to have insight but who knows if they even post. I have a pretty high IQ but I'm also so incredibly undisciplined nothing useful has ever become of it. shrug

As Rob has maybe pointed out, I think a lot of it depends on the sort of sales you do. In my case, I really couldn't do a great job feigning interest in the small talk with in-person sales (furniture) because my body language or facial expressions would betray my boredom. Again, telemarketing is just voice control, but another aspect of telemarketing that I think would help those with high IQ is that it helps a ton to know everything there is to know about the credit card or the credit card product so that you can answer any question the contact asks instantly. Being able to answer the questions instantly projects confidence, which people respect and also lets people know that you know what you're selling.

Beyond answering questions quickly, a high IQ will also help a telemarketer think on his or her toes so as to answer the questions truthfully, but also in such a way that the answers will not put the contact off. The easiest example of this (which virtually everyone knew how to do) was, "Selling on low commitment," which just means that you would want to finish most answers with the fact that the contact could call and cancel if they read the terms and did not like what they saw. There are more subtle techniques specific to individual cards and products, but I wouldn't want to bore you.