Chip inventory question

[coach belly]

I know/knew EXACTLY how it works on regular slots/video poker .

You didn't understand how VP worked...

The downloadable type doesn't give your bet back. On vp, if you get two pair, you only get 2 credits minus the 1 that was bet for a net gain of only 1 credit. On the initial seed types, you get the 2 credits AND 1 for the initial bet for a net gain of 2 credits. It's not the same.

This is all wrong too!

You don't get 3 credits for 2 pair, it's 2 credits.

Free play or otherwise...you bet 5, the 5 is gone....
you hit 2 pair - you win 10. You don't get the original 5 back too.

Unreal...wow you sure spent a lot of time building up a fake persona...what a mental patient.

I'm just not seeing how he's getting paid 2 TO 1 on even money bets. I guess I'd just have to watch.

It pays 2-for-1. That's how every machine I've ever seen works (that I know of / remember). When you make a $5 bet, your credits immediately go down, even before your wager is resolved. Once it is resolved (if a winner) it pays 2.

Bet 10 on heads, 10 on tails, flip a coin, take the losing bet and pay the winner.

You'll end up with 20 total...just like you started with.

I'm shocked I'm saying this, but, I agree with coach belly.

Agreed, but the casino doesn't let you keep the initial bets, just the wins. You're +10

What game does the casino not let you to keep the initial bets on a winner?

Now take your buck and a half home and give it to mommy for letting you live in her basement.

On the way out, assure Ozzy that you're not IBYA, and inform clueless tewl that you are a machine hustler.

[jbjb]

You didn't understand how VP worked...

This is all wrong too!

You don't get 3 credits for 2 pair, it's 2 credits.

Free play or otherwise...you bet 5, the 5 is gone....
you hit 2 pair - you win 10. You don't get the original 5 back too.

Unreal...wow you sure spent a lot of time building up a fake persona...what a mental patient.

I'm just not seeing how he's getting paid 2 TO 1 on even money bets. I guess I'd just have to watch.

It pays 2-for-1. That's how every machine I've ever seen works (that I know of / remember). When you make a $5 bet, your credits immediately go down, even before your wager is resolved. Once it is resolved (if a winner) it pays 2.

Bet 10 on heads, 10 on tails, flip a coin, take the losing bet and pay the winner.

You'll end up with 20 total...just like you started with.

I'm shocked I'm saying this, but, I agree with coach belly.

Agreed, but the casino doesn't let you keep the initial bets, just the wins. You're +10

What game does the casino not let you to keep the initial bets on a winner?

Now take your buck and a half home and give it to mommy for letting you live in her basement.

On the way out, assure Ozzy that you're not IBYA, and inform clueless tewl that you are a machine hustler.

Kiss my ass you stupid ploppie!

Ozzy can fuck off too. He has a problem and thinks he knows me, come say something!!

[kewlJ]

How do you know a bunch of large cards didn't come out in the one or two previous rounds you didn't see?

You don't know that a bunch of large cards didn't just come out. Doesn't matter, those unseen cards are just added to the unseen cards after the shuffle point, effectively making the game shallower penetration. Let's say the cards on the felt total +10 hi-lo running count. 6 deck game. The true count is 1.67 based on the cards seen (+10) with 6 decks unseen (actually slightly less). It doesn't matter if those unseen cards are before or after the cards seen, which is the data point.

C'mon KJ. That is not math. Maybe good instincts. Perhaps a decent assumption. But not math.

This is incorrect moses. It is in fact based on mathematics. Algebra in fact. You should check out Abdul Jalib's true count theorem for the algebraic equations and formulas. Or you can read about it in BJA3.

[mickeycrimm]

This is not the case at all...jbjb did not understand how basic freeplay worked.

It had nothing whatsoever to do with a loss rebate promotion.

I saved the thread, read it and weep....

Can you mathematically explain what you mean above?

You are getting the ~98% return with the video roulette play. Say you have $100 freeplay. $50 on red, $50 on black. One will win giving you $50 back plus another $50. If the green number wins, your $3 on it will net you 35-1 for $105 or so.

Pretty good idea. Saves the hassle of playing multiple BP hands.

You'll almost ALWAYS get around $100 (or 100% of your freeplay) without significant risk of a string of lousy VP hands.

Might be a better idea if VP is excluded from FP. But VP is by far superior to anything else.

What if you don't hit much on VP? You could brick some, most or all of your free play away.

That can't happen with the 100 video roulette play, if you spread 48-48-4, then you are guaranteed either 96 or 140.

No you aren't. Better check your math again. You'll profit 48 or 140. 36 out of 37 times, assuming a single zero wheel, you'll only get the 48.

The machine pays the winning color 48, plus you keep the 48 you bet.

It's like hitting 2-pair on VP.

No. Outside bets pay even money.

Yes...but they don't take your winning bet away.

You bet 48 on red, 48 on black, 4 on green.

Red comes out...they take your 48 on black and 4 on green.

You keep the 48 you bet on red, and they pay bet another 48.

So you end up with 96.

Just like table roulette...they cap your bet with the marker and pay it...they don't take the bet away.

I usually side with jbjb on stuff, but this isn't true. You put $0 into the machine, you download $100 in FP. Once you cycle through $100 in action, you cash out whatever is remaining on the credit meter. $48 red, $48 black, $4 green. At the end of the spin, you will have cycled through $100. You'll either have $96 (which is ALL profit, since you put $0 into machine), or else you'll have $140 if green hits ($140 in profit).

1/37 * 140 = 140/37
+
36/37 * 96 = 96*36/37
==
((140/37) + (96*36/37)) = value of $100 in FP on roulette machine (using that method).
==
$97.19

If they're giving you the original 48 back, then I agree. But they're not supposed to.

I think jbjb has outed himself.

He portrays himself as a fulltime AP pro, and as it turns out...he doesn't know jack shit.

Piss off. I've done this before so I know I'm right. Once I saw how I got ripped off, never again.

There's two ways. Downloadable where you don't need cash or the kind that you need an initial seed money. What kind is he describing? The way I'm reading, it's the latter.

The latter also returns your bet, the former doesn't.

It's the same on both.

The downloadable type doesn't give your bet back. On vp, if you get two pair, you only get 2 credits minus the 1 that was bet for a net gain of only 1 credit. On the initial seed types, you get the 2 credits AND 1 for the initial bet for a net gain of 2 credits. It's not the same.

This is all wrong too!

You don't get 3 credits for 2 pair, it's 2 credits.

Free play or otherwise...you bet 5, the 5 is gone....
you hit 2 pair - you win 10. You don't get the original 5 back too.

Unreal...wow you sure spent a lot of time building up a fake persona...what a mental patient.

I'm just not seeing how he's getting paid 2 TO 1 on even money bets. I guess I'd just have to watch.

It pays 2-for-1. That's how every machine I've ever seen works (that I know of / remember). When you make a $5 bet, your credits immediately go down, even before your wager is resolved. Once it is resolved (if a winner) it pays 2.

Bet 10 on heads, 10 on tails, flip a coin, take the losing bet and pay the winner.

You'll end up with 20 total...just like you started with.

I'm shocked I'm saying this, but, I agree with coach belly.

Agreed, but the casino doesn't let you keep the initial bets, just the wins. You're +10

What game does the casino not let you to keep the initial bets on a winner?

Not quite coach. Only hedging those roulette games. I know/knew EXACTLY how it works on regular slots/video poker As for me, I use mine on vulturing 100%+ plays. So far today, +130.25 from $35.75. Still have $4.25 left.

I do the same thing. Play it off in small increments on the vulturables.

[Moses]

Hmmm. Interesting. You're the shoe expert. I have to know or I don't know in pitch. what's played = what still remains.

So what you're saying is you know the TC is at least 1.67 but could be much higher? In this case, do you bet it as a TC 1.67 or give it more juice? I'm curious is all.

[kewlJ]

Hmmm. Interesting. You're the shoe expert. I have to know or I don't know in pitch. what's played = what still remains.

So what you're saying is you know the TC is at least 1.67 but could be much higher? In this case, do you bet it as a TC 1.67 or give it more juice? I'm curious is all.

Wonging in is generally not the way I play. I prefer to play off the top of a fresh shuffle and wong out aggressively of negative counts, preferably wong out of a negative count and into a positive count at the very next table. (when that opportunity is available)

But there are occasions that I am walking by a table and see a reasonably high running count after seeing only a round or two. The way I play it is to jump in with 1/2 max bet. I don't change that amount, betting the same as long as I have an advantage. One of the advantages of wonging in is that you don't have to vary bets. Just pick an amount and flat bet since all rounds are played at an advantage. But like I said, I don't usually play this way. I think it draws too much heat. Zenking (remember him.....he started this thread) has recently mentioned that he has been wonging in a lot lately. I suspect the next thing we will hear from him is that he is getting 86ed all over the place. Hope not though.

[Moses]

Wonging in is generally not the way I play. I prefer to play off the top of a fresh shuffle and wong out aggressively of negative counts, preferably wong out of a negative count and into a positive count at the very next table. (when that opportunity is available)

But there are occasions that I am walking by a table and see a reasonably high running count after seeing only a round or two. The way I play it is to jump in with 1/2 max bet..

By 1/2 max bet. Do you mean table max?

I don't change that amount, betting the same as long as I have an advantage. One of the advantages of wonging in is that you don't have to vary bets. Just pick an amount and flat bet since all rounds are played at an advantage. But like I said, I don't usually play this way. I think it draws too much heat..

The heat would scare the hell out of me. Short term profits for long term gains doesn't seem prudent. Also, jumping into a large stakes table might raise the dander of another counter.

Zenking (remember him.....he started this thread) has recently mentioned that he has been wonging in a lot lately. I suspect the next thing we will hear from him is that he is getting 86ed all over the place. Hope not though.

The kid has guts. Be cool ZenK. Those 86ers will follow you for a lifetime - it seems.

[kewlJ]

By 1/2 max bet. Do you mean table max?

No I mean 1/2 my max bet.

Those 86ers will follow you for a lifetime - it seems.

Sadly this is true and it grows more true each day with advances in technology and databases and information sharing.

It is easier to identify what draws heat, backoffs, 86ings, database entries and avoid it, that to un-do heat and database entries. Very hard to undo the damage once it has been done.

[RS__]

[Ozzy]

Your anything but a coach

What would you know about coaches?...you were in the band...the marching band, not Black Sabbath.

Now get lost and go back to cheerleading for nancywormm, and spying on IBYA from behind trash cans.

Why don't you confront IBYA and ask him if he is jbjb...instead of being a pathetic coward stalker?

So tough behind a screen eh coach yellow belly, fat slob. You can be certain you would NEVER have the gonads to say any of this to my face old man.

[Rob.Singer]

Your anything but a coach

What would you know about coaches?...you were in the band...the marching band, not Black Sabbath.

Now get lost and go back to cheerleading for nancywormm, and spying on IBYA from behind trash cans.

Why don't you confront IBYA and ask him if he is jbjb...instead of being a pathetic coward stalker?

So tough behind a screen eh coach yellow belly, fat slob. You can be certain you would NEVER have the gonads to say any of this to my face old man.

This is typical WoV reject stuff and a major reason for the many problems here. These anonymous tough guys who neither gamble much if at all, nor have the courage to do anything but try to intimidate from the safety of their pajamas....they're now a dime a dozen. They were turned into pussies by Shack, and over here they thrive on conflict. It's like having a chaotic roomful of out-of-shape mickeycrimms shouting over each other.

[mickeycrimm]

What would you know about coaches?...you were in the band...the marching band, not Black Sabbath.

Now get lost and go back to cheerleading for nancywormm, and spying on IBYA from behind trash cans.

Why don't you confront IBYA and ask him if he is jbjb...instead of being a pathetic coward stalker?

So tough behind a screen eh coach yellow belly, fat slob. You can be certain you would NEVER have the gonads to say any of this to my face old man.

This is typical WoV reject stuff and a major reason for the many problems here. These anonymous tough guys who neither gamble much if at all, nor have the courage to do anything but try to intimidate from the safety of their pajamas....they're now a dime a dozen. They were turned into pussies by Shack, and over here they thrive on conflict. It's like having a chaotic roomful of out-of-shape mickeycrimms shouting over each other.

Rob, you are always writing about yourself. You have thrived on conflict for 15 years in the forums.

[coach belly]

So tough behind a screen eh coach yellow belly, fat slob. You can be certain you would NEVER have the gonads to say any of this to my face old man.

Let me know where I can find you, and I'll confront you no problem.

What are you gonna do anyway, try to hit me with your clarinet?

[Moses]

What are you gonna do anyway, try to hit me with your clarinet?

Hope he doesn't play the tuba.

[coach belly]

What are you gonna do anyway, try to hit me with your clarinet?

Hope he doesn't play the tuba.

Tuba not a problem either...he'll end up wearing it as a hat.

[Moses]

Funny Coach story: Coach was probably 27 at the time. The toughest kid in school and decent football player thought he wanted a piece of Coach. So one day in PE, coach brought out the boxing gloves and head gear. He starts lacing up his gloves. The kid walks over, "what are you doing coach"?

Coach replies "I thought I'd see if anyone wants to box," as he hands the guy the head gear. "Aren't you going to wear any Coach"? Coach chuckles and says "naw, I don't think I'll need it."

So coach just knocks the soup out of him. But he cleverly smiles and laughs while he is doing it. The kid had enough and goes to sit in the bleachers. Coach comes up still laughing and says "great workout, wasn't that was fun"? Kid replies "sure coach, fun" with the tweety birds circling his head.

[Ozzy]

I'll be back in Detroit area for Christmas to visit family, I'll gladly confront tough guy JBJB ( Ibeatyouraces) and see how slick he is face to face.

[Ozzy]

As for you coachporkbelly, I'm not going to confront an old out of shape fat slob...In jbjb( Ibeatyouraces ) case he's around my age, maybe around 5 -9 150lbs soaking wet with steel toe boots, no contest compared to my 6-3 240lbs.

[coach belly]

I'll gladly confront tough guy JBJB ( Ibeatyouraces)

You'd gladly confront a 5'9' 150 guy? big whoop...that just shows what a coward you are.

You've been stalking him for years, why didn't you ever introduce yourself,
instead of hiding behind trash cans all this time?

As for you coachporkbelly, I'm not going to confront an old out of shape fat slob

I'm not old or out of shape, I'm right in your ht/wt class...you afraid to pick on someone your own size?

And what's up with this Detroit for Christmas bullshit? Where will you be hiding for the next 4 months?

[Rob.Singer]

I'll gladly confront tough guy JBJB ( Ibeatyouraces)

You'd gladly confront a 5'9' 150 guy? big whoop...that just shows what a coward you are.

You've been stalking him for years, why didn't you ever introduce yourself,
instead of hiding behind trash cans all this time?

As for you coachporkbelly, I'm not going to confront an old out of shape fat slob

I'm not old or out of shape, I'm right in your ht/wt class...you afraid to pick on someone your own size?

And what's up with this Detroit for Christmas bullshit? Where will you be hiding for the next 4 months?

He's hoping it will all just fade away by then coach. These guys who talk tough also know how to hide with the best of them. Why do you think mickey stays away from places like Nevada....