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Thread: Strong Arm Removal at MGM

  1. #161
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by quahaug View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    How do they know who to ban mickeycrimm? Do they ask the APs to show their AP membership cards at the door or do they look for the secret decoder rings on the hand that pushes the button?

    Frankly these claims are getting more fantastic every day.
    They probably get rid of anybody bothering the regular players by hanging over them, blowing smoke in their face or fighting among themselves creating a scene ect. Ultimately it probably has nothing to do with their "APing"
    Nope, straight up 86'ing non-offending customers for being knowledgeable gamblers.
    And how do the casinos know this?

  2. #162
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by quahaug View Post

    They probably get rid of anybody bothering the regular players by hanging over them, blowing smoke in their face or fighting among themselves creating a scene ect. Ultimately it probably has nothing to do with their "APing"
    Nope, straight up 86'ing non-offending customers for being knowledgeable gamblers.
    And how do the casinos know this?
    They know what to look for. In order to find plays on the exploitable slot games you have to check several bet levels. So you are walking up to a machine punching up the different screens and looking at how many of certain symbols have been banked so far. If enough symbols are banked you grab a seat and spin it off. If not, you move on to the next machine.

    It's easy for security, surveillance, slots operations, to profile the people that do this. If you know the plays, know whats going on, its easy to identify advantage players. They identify advantage slot players the same way I do. When I see someone punching through the various bets levels, going though the rules screens, looking at meters, I know I have competition for the advantage plays in that house. I can identify anyone in the house that is an advantage slot player. That is, if they are actively looking for advantage plays.

    Edit: In every casino I visit I'm profiling the players looking to see if I have any competition for the plays.
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 11-20-2018 at 05:19 PM.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  3. #163
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post

    Nope, straight up 86'ing non-offending customers for being knowledgeable gamblers.
    And how do the casinos know this?
    They know what to look for. In order to find plays on the exploitable slot games you have to check several bet levels. So you are walking up to a machine punching up the different screens and looking at how many of certain symbols have been banked so far. If enough symbols are banked you grab a seat and spin it off. If not, you move on to the next machine.

    It's easy for security, surveillance, slots operations, to profile the people that do this. If you know the plays, know whats going on, its easy to identify advantage players. They identify advantage slot players the same way I do. When I see someone punching through the various bets levels, going though the rules screens, looking at meters, I know I have competition for the advantage plays in that house. I can identify anyone in the house that is an advantage slot player. That is, if they are actively looking for advantage plays.

    Edit: In every casino I visit I'm profiling the players looking to see if I have any competition for the plays.
    I still don't get why the casino cares. Machine ap's don't affect the casinos bottom line do they?
    Take off that stupid mask you big baby.

  4. #164
    Quahaug I agree. I hope that doesn't trouble you that I agree. And if you can deal with it, Rob Singer also agrees.

    Frankly I think the so-called APs are just trying to boost their importance.

  5. #165
    Advantage slot play definitely affects the bottom line of a casino. AP's walk with the money. Ploppies feed it back. Also, heavily worked casinos by AP's give the appearance of slots being tight at that casino and ploppies less inclined to return. Their money doesn't seem to last as long. The fact that the anti-AP crowd can't figure out these basic reasons for the casinos disdain towards AP's is reason enough to leave you in your state of confusion. AP's that publicly talk about other reasons and/or any plays are foolish and perpetuate the decline in opportunities.

  6. #166
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Quahaug I agree. I hope that doesn't trouble you that I agree. And if you can deal with it, Rob Singer also agrees.

    Frankly I think the so-called APs are just trying to boost their importance.
    Alan you're an idiot.

  7. #167
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by quahaug View Post

    They probably get rid of anybody bothering the regular players by hanging over them, blowing smoke in their face or fighting among themselves creating a scene ect. Ultimately it probably has nothing to do with their "APing"
    Nope, straight up 86'ing non-offending customers for being knowledgeable gamblers.
    And how do the casinos know this?
    Because, as dense as they usually are, they are brighter than you.

  8. #168
    Trying to understand stupid people is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end.
    What, Me Worry?

  9. #169
    Well Quahaug, I hope you saw those responses.

  10. #170
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Well Quahaug, I hope you saw those responses.
    I did. Maxpens answer makes a lot sense. Thanks.
    Take off that stupid mask you big baby.

  11. #171
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Quahaug I agree. I hope that doesn't trouble you that I agree. And if you can deal with it, Rob Singer also agrees.


    Not at all Alan. I'm glad to see you guys have a moment of clarity once in a while.
    Take off that stupid mask you big baby.

  12. #172
    What Mickey never answered was a question I asked a while ago. How do the machine APs know they'll get the seat?

    Year's ago there was a video poker team at Rincon that got busted. There were five seats, four team members, and after three team losses on big progressives they were never seen again. And how many seats are linked to these must hit slots? Aren't some one machine only?

    Congratulations Quahaug your membership card and secret decoder ring are both safe to keep. Your flip flop saved you.

    " I still don't get why the casino cares. Machine ap's don't affect the casinos bottom line do they?"
    Last edited by Alan Mendelson; 11-21-2018 at 07:12 AM.

  13. #173
    I think the hustlers have ruined it for the quiet, non-bothersome slot APs.

    If it were just a few slot APs quietly scrolling through machines to find +EV spots, the casino wouldn't be thrilled, but they would probably let it slide.

    The problem is that the hustlers aren't content just to look for those opportunities, and they hassle anyone they can find to switch to different machines or run up meters for them.

    I can't tell you how many times I've been bothered by hustlers in the past year when simply trying to run video poker or some other machine.

    I think the casinos are learning that the AP community isn't that large, and that word will quickly get around if they start dropping the hammer on people.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  14. #174
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    What Mickey never answered was a question I asked a while ago. How do the machine APs know they'll get the seat?

    Year's ago there was a video poker team at Rincon that got busted. There were five seats, four team members, and after three team losses on big progressives they were never seen again. And how many seats are linked to these must hit slots? Aren't some one machine only?

    Congratulations Quahaug your membership card and secret decoder ring are both safe to keep. Your flip flop saved you.

    " I still don't get why the casino cares. Machine ap's don't affect the casinos bottom line do they?"
    The machines are mostly not linked. Must hit's don't represent much of what I do. Although I AM currently sweating a River Dragon at $4905 as of this morning. I avoid houses with to many slot AP's in them. I like to have everything to myself.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  15. #175
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I think the hustlers have ruined it for the quiet, non-bothersome slot APs.

    If it were just a few slot APs quietly scrolling through machines to find +EV spots, the casino wouldn't be thrilled, but they would probably let it slide.

    The problem is that the hustlers aren't content just to look for those opportunities, and they hassle anyone they can find to switch to different machines or run up meters for them.

    I can't tell you how many times I've been bothered by hustlers in the past year when simply trying to run video poker or some other machine.

    I think the casinos are learning that the AP community isn't that large, and that word will quickly get around if they start dropping the hammer on people.
    Dan hit it on the head. I’ve posted I’ve observed more wannabe AP’s who are really just degenerates in the past few months for whatever reason. A little knowledge is dangerous and these guys are full of it. But it’s by no means a bash on legitimate AP’s who would never stoop to these tricks.

    Every business or profession has its share of losers that are an embarrassment to others. Mr V will tell you there are lawyers who are an embarrassment to the profession. Dan will surely admit there are professional poker players who are low lives. You certainly can’t judge every parent or retiree by Alan’s actions.

    The problem is you have junkies or others desperate for money they bother valid casino customers playing machines they want. And no business wants to deal with legitimate customers complaining about being bothered. A little research and the casino is determining what the issue, and machines in questions are.

    I’m sure Mickey has seen guys like this since his early AP days in Laughlin, there just seems to be more lately. The people I have met or talked to off line don’t go for garbage like this and have never given me a reason to believe they are not trustworthy. And they all make a good living playing the game without resorting to stuff like this. They are in it for the long haul and drawing attention is not good for business.

    So yes Alan, they are AP’s out there and there are shitty wannabe AP’s out there ruining it for others.

  16. #176
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I think the hustlers have ruined it for the quiet, non-bothersome slot APs.

    If it were just a few slot APs quietly scrolling through machines to find +EV spots, the casino wouldn't be thrilled, but they would probably let it slide.

    The problem is that the hustlers aren't content just to look for those opportunities, and they hassle anyone they can find to switch to different machines or run up meters for them.

    I can't tell you how many times I've been bothered by hustlers in the past year when simply trying to run video poker or some other machine.

    I think the casinos are learning that the AP community isn't that large, and that word will quickly get around if they start dropping the hammer on people.
    Dan hit it on the head. I’ve posted I’ve observed more wannabe AP’s who are really just degenerates in the past few months for whatever reason. A little knowledge is dangerous and these guys are full of it. But it’s by no means a bash on legitimate AP’s who would never stoop to these tricks.

    Every business or profession has its share of losers that are an embarrassment to others. Mr V will tell you there are lawyers who are an embarrassment to the profession. Dan will surely admit there are professional poker players who are low lives. You certainly can’t judge every parent or retiree by Alan’s actions.

    The problem is you have junkies or others desperate for money they bother valid casino customers playing machines they want. And no business wants to deal with legitimate customers complaining about being bothered. A little research and the casino is determining what the issue, and machines in questions are.

    I’m sure Mickey has seen guys like this since his early AP days in Laughlin, there just seems to be more lately. The people I have met or talked to off line don’t go for garbage like this and have never given me a reason to believe they are not trustworthy. And they all make a good living playing the game without resorting to stuff like this. They are in it for the long haul and drawing attention is not good for business.

    So yes Alan, they are AP’s out there and there are shitty wannabe AP’s out there ruining it for others.
    I've seen a lot of just totally dumb shit over the years. I've seen hustlers fighting each other to get a play. I've seen hustlers sit down next to ploppies and blow cigarette smoke their way to get them off the machine. I've seen hustlers rat out other hustlers to security to eliminate the competition then they themselves wind up getting thrown out. The creators are the worst of the lot. What they have in common is they are scufflers. Short bankrollers desperate for money. They usually have a drug or gambling habit. And like in every occupation they make the rest of us look bad.

    One of the problems is some of these games just don't take a whole lot of brains and bankroll. Any monkey can do it. But once the easy games disappear so do the scufflers. They don't have the brains or the bankroll to make it at the higher levels.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  17. #177
    Mickey, Dan and Boz all had very good accurate posts on this subject.

  18. #178
    Originally Posted by quahaug View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Well Quahaug, I hope you saw those responses.
    I did. Maxpens answer makes a lot sense. Thanks.
    Which answer: "Advantage slot play definitely affects the bottom line of a casino. AP's walk with the money. Ploppies feed it back. Also, heavily worked casinos by AP's give the appearance of slots being tight at that casino and ploppies less inclined to return. Their money doesn't seem to last as long. The fact that the anti-AP crowd can't figure out these basic reasons for the casinos disdain towards AP's is reason enough to leave you in your state of confusion. AP's that publicly talk about other reasons and/or any plays are foolish and perpetuate the decline in opportunities. "

    or

    "Alan you're an idiot. " ?

  19. #179
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I think the hustlers have ruined it for the quiet, non-bothersome slot APs.

    If it were just a few slot APs quietly scrolling through machines to find +EV spots, the casino wouldn't be thrilled, but they would probably let it slide.

    The problem is that the hustlers aren't content just to look for those opportunities, and they hassle anyone they can find to switch to different machines or run up meters for them.

    I can't tell you how many times I've been bothered by hustlers in the past year when simply trying to run video poker or some other machine.

    I think the casinos are learning that the AP community isn't that large, and that word will quickly get around if they start dropping the hammer on people.
    Dan hit it on the head. I’ve posted I’ve observed more wannabe AP’s who are really just degenerates in the past few months for whatever reason. A little knowledge is dangerous and these guys are full of it. But it’s by no means a bash on legitimate AP’s who would never stoop to these tricks.

    Every business or profession has its share of losers that are an embarrassment to others. Mr V will tell you there are lawyers who are an embarrassment to the profession. Dan will surely admit there are professional poker players who are low lives. You certainly can’t judge every parent or retiree by Alan’s actions.

    The problem is you have junkies or others desperate for money they bother valid casino customers playing machines they want. And no business wants to deal with legitimate customers complaining about being bothered. A little research and the casino is determining what the issue, and machines in questions are.

    I’m sure Mickey has seen guys like this since his early AP days in Laughlin, there just seems to be more lately. The people I have met or talked to off line don’t go for garbage like this and have never given me a reason to believe they are not trustworthy. And they all make a good living playing the game without resorting to stuff like this. They are in it for the long haul and drawing attention is not good for business.

    So yes Alan, they are AP’s out there and there are shitty wannabe AP’s out there ruining it for others.
    There is another type of hustler (one of many types I'm sure) besides Creators. I don't have a name for them, but these are the people who say "I've already checked all those machines" (when they haven't), or "I though I saw security looking at a picture of you". etc. Basically they try and talk regular APs out of plays.

  20. #180
    Originally Posted by tableplay View Post
    Originally Posted by The Boz View Post
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I think the hustlers have ruined it for the quiet, non-bothersome slot APs.

    If it were just a few slot APs quietly scrolling through machines to find +EV spots, the casino wouldn't be thrilled, but they would probably let it slide.

    The problem is that the hustlers aren't content just to look for those opportunities, and they hassle anyone they can find to switch to different machines or run up meters for them.

    I can't tell you how many times I've been bothered by hustlers in the past year when simply trying to run video poker or some other machine.

    I think the casinos are learning that the AP community isn't that large, and that word will quickly get around if they start dropping the hammer on people.
    Dan hit it on the head. I’ve posted I’ve observed more wannabe AP’s who are really just degenerates in the past few months for whatever reason. A little knowledge is dangerous and these guys are full of it. But it’s by no means a bash on legitimate AP’s who would never stoop to these tricks.

    Every business or profession has its share of losers that are an embarrassment to others. Mr V will tell you there are lawyers who are an embarrassment to the profession. Dan will surely admit there are professional poker players who are low lives. You certainly can’t judge every parent or retiree by Alan’s actions.

    The problem is you have junkies or others desperate for money they bother valid casino customers playing machines they want. And no business wants to deal with legitimate customers complaining about being bothered. A little research and the casino is determining what the issue, and machines in questions are.

    I’m sure Mickey has seen guys like this since his early AP days in Laughlin, there just seems to be more lately. The people I have met or talked to off line don’t go for garbage like this and have never given me a reason to believe they are not trustworthy. And they all make a good living playing the game without resorting to stuff like this. They are in it for the long haul and drawing attention is not good for business.

    So yes Alan, they are AP’s out there and there are shitty wannabe AP’s out there ruining it for others.
    There is another type of hustler (one of many types I'm sure) besides Creators. I don't have a name for them, but these are the people who say "I've already checked all those machines" (when they haven't), or "I though I saw security looking at a picture of you". etc. Basically they try and talk regular APs out of plays.
    If I know the person and I know for a fact nothing is on a game, I'll let them know. We may be competition, but we're also friendly to each other. If I dont know the person, I won't say a word. Let them waste their time.

    A few weeks ago, a guy gave me the "there's nothing there" speil but then got pissed when I found some.

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