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Thread: Challenge to Singer / Argentino

  1. #61
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Mickeycrimm wrote "The IRS will not let you file as a professional gambler unless it is your primary source of income. "

    That's not true. You can file a Schedule C for each and every profitable business you have. The test is profits. The IRS does not allow deductions on a Schedule C for a hobby.

    Mickeycrimm you're a prime candidate for a Schedule C considering all the driving you do to casinos.
    You need to read the IRS regulations.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  2. #62
    Mickeycrimm why don't you post them. If they changed and I'm wrong then I'll say so. If the rules changed I'll admit it.

  3. #63
    It seems the AP / anti-AP vitriol level is escalating.

    Not that that's a bad thing, but it just seems unnecessary.

    We all gamble, so our focus should be on how to maximize our gambling experience, no matter how we play.

    Even a newbie like Tasha grasps that concept, posting as she does about her lottery play.

    I'm as guilty as anyone else in allowing myself to fall into the oh so familiar roll of quasi-troll, as it is somewhat fun and stimulating, albeit "wrong."

    Oh well, everybody back on their heads, and no soup for you!
    What, Me Worry?

  4. #64
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Mickeycrimm why don't you post them. If they changed and I'm wrong then I'll say so. If the rules changed I'll admit it.
    Do you really believe mickey ever reads past a scanned-over snippet that he can make himself believe what he makes up is true?

    The reason he does not fine as a professional gambler assuming at least part of his story is true, is that he does not file tax returns. He, like all bums, has no responsibilities, no accountability, and his untouchable ebt card is his greatest asset. You get what you pay for with him.

  5. #65
    Actually I'd be very surprised if any non W2G or table games player ever declared their true winnings... with the exception of kewlj, of course.

  6. #66
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Actually I'd be very surprised if any non W2G or table games player ever declared their true winnings... with the exception of kewlj, of course.

    Regnis and Dan, I'm relying on you two to verify and modify this, but this is my understanding. I'm not sure my late cousin, E.R. Dietz, explained this to me properly, but he seemed to know what he was talking about.

    Mickeycrimm is more right than wrong. You should not, as an individual, file as a professional gambler unless it is your sole income-producing, full-time endeavor. The gambling is supposed to be full-time and to the exclusion of all other income-producing activities. Now, there is a recommended way to sidestep this, but it almost certainly requires other people unless you had a verifiable history of winning at gambling.

    This, of course, begets the question, "How could any individual who lost money gambling five or six or seven years consecutively as an 'AP' be approved for a professional label as a sole individual without using the sidestepping technique?" The short answer is that the individual cannot, as all that has been established is that the individual has a consistently money-losing hobby. If there had been a windfall gambling, it's conceivable (not likely, but conceivable) that income averaging and a redefinition as a professional gambler could possibly be argued retroactively, but income averaging for everyone but farmers and fishermen ended in 1987. So anything like this would have had to occur prior to 1988.

  7. #67
    Ok, so here is the Argentino fairytale:

    1.) Titan of Industry, pulling in large salary as VP of major corporation
    2.) Wife has own high level, 6 figure career
    3.) Retires
    4.) Files for bankruptcy
    5.) 9 year career, winning 1.5 million dollars playing -EV video poker
    6.) Now @ 69 years old, lives in a RV, in someone else's driveway, mooching utilities

    I don't claim to be the brightest guy in the world, but I can add 2+2 and get 4 and folks, Mr. Argentino's story simply does not add up.


    Now a quick look at the book of Mendelson:

    1.) Career TV journalist/personality, presumably making substantial money
    2.) Fired because he aged out of...well whatever
    3.) Began his own company, "hawking" products under the guise of consumer protection
    4.) Claims to have made millions from this company
    5.) Now in his late 60's, according to his own son, is broke, unable to pay debts and lives month to month, broke most of the month.

    This story only adds up because Mr. Mendelson comes just short of admitting his gambling addiction (which his son did admit).

    That gambling addiction is the common denominator of both stories. If you accept that premise for Argentino in place of the "1.5 million dollar career winning against the math, playing -EV games", then his story starts to make sense as well.

    Two guys, who made substantial money and have lost all or a good portion of it. One lives month to month, the other in an RV in his children's driveway, mooching utilities. AND it more than explains their bitterness towards AP's and Singer's general bitterness and hatred towards everyone.

    Now one final thing. Argentino/Singer made reference to a good pension (coupled with social security). I sincerely hope both gentlemen have this.

    Neither of these guys is capable of confronting this missing piece of both of their puzzles (gambling addiction), but anyone with half a brain can now see this is the missing piece.

    The only reason I even give a damn is because these two, fueled by bitterness from there own addiction and gambling losses have been on a crusade to discredit myself and every legitimate AP on this site. So now that the story has been told in it's entirety, I am done with these guys. I am going to take LarryS's advice and stop empowering them and ignore them like the annoying little bugs on a windshield that they are.
    Last edited by kewlJ; 07-07-2018 at 05:40 PM.

  8. #68
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Actually I'd be very surprised if any non W2G or table games player ever declared their true winnings... with the exception of kewlj, of course.

    Regnis and Dan, I'm relying on you two to verify and modify this, but this is my understanding. I'm not sure my late cousin, E.R. Dietz, explained this to me properly, but he seemed to know what he was talking about.

    Mickeycrimm is more right than wrong. You should not, as an individual, file as a professional gambler unless it is your sole income-producing, full-time endeavor. The gambling is supposed to be full-time and to the exclusion of all other income-producing activities. Now, there is a recommended way to sidestep this, but it almost certainly requires other people unless you had a verifiable history of winning at gambling.

    This, of course, begets the question, "How could any individual who lost money gambling five or six or seven years consecutively as an 'AP' be approved for a professional label as a sole individual without using the sidestepping technique?" The short answer is that the individual cannot, as all that has been established is that the individual has a consistently money-losing hobby. If there had been a windfall gambling, it's conceivable (not likely, but conceivable) that income averaging and a redefinition as a professional gambler could possibly be argued retroactively, but income averaging for everyone but farmers and fishermen ended in 1987. So anything like this would have had to occur prior to 1988.
    I have no idea why, but I looked up some of this a few hours ago. A professional gambler can net all wagering activity but cannot show an overall wagering loss. Also, as with any normal business you can deduct any normal and ordinary business expenses.

    I tried to review some of the rules for Schedule C but it was too long for me to digest in one sitting. The funny thing is that I work for myself as an engineer and use the Schedule C but I am damn to know the full rules for a gambler.

  9. #69
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Actually I'd be very surprised if any non W2G or table games player ever declared their true winnings... with the exception of kewlj, of course.
    This is because you sir are a dishonest person out to scam, and get away with whatever you can, so you assume everyone else is equally as dishonest.

    Well, I make a decent living. I have done far better than I ever hoped to and am very happy to pay my share of taxes. And even then, I choose to give back even more to my community in the form or charitable contributions. I don't know if I have ever shared this on this site, but those that know me from other sites are probably aware that I am involved in a number of charities, here in Las Vegas. My single biggest donation occurs each August, when I am the only non-corporate sponsor of a backpack and school supply give-away to lower income school children.

    You don't know me sir. Some of us are proud to pay taxes and contribute to our communities. While others like you are "shysters" trying to scam and get away with what they can.

  10. #70
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Mickeycrimm why don't you post them. If they changed and I'm wrong then I'll say so. If the rules changed I'll admit it.
    From Tax Help For Gamblers by Jean Scott and Marissa Chien:

    "....filing as a professional gambler using Schedule C has its own set of problems. First, the IRS imposes rigid requirements on anyone wanting to claim gambling as his "business," although these are not all set in stone; individual situations are considered. However, court cases have established that your intent must be to make money as a PRIMARY SOURCE OF INCOME; it must not be just a hobby."

    By Rob's own words he went to the casino one day a week for an average of four hours. And he has said he had other income plus his wife's income. Do you really think the IRS would consider Rob's limited activity in casinos a profession and his primary source of income....especially considering that his gambling activity would not generate tax dollars to the IRS?

    Rob's profile fits the hobbyist much more than the professional.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  11. #71
    Originally Posted by Deech View Post
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Actually I'd be very surprised if any non W2G or table games player ever declared their true winnings... with the exception of kewlj, of course.

    Regnis and Dan, I'm relying on you two to verify and modify this, but this is my understanding. I'm not sure my late cousin, E.R. Dietz, explained this to me properly, but he seemed to know what he was talking about.

    Mickeycrimm is more right than wrong. You should not, as an individual, file as a professional gambler unless it is your sole income-producing, full-time endeavor. The gambling is supposed to be full-time and to the exclusion of all other income-producing activities. Now, there is a recommended way to sidestep this, but it almost certainly requires other people unless you had a verifiable history of winning at gambling.

    This, of course, begets the question, "How could any individual who lost money gambling five or six or seven years consecutively as an 'AP' be approved for a professional label as a sole individual without using the sidestepping technique?" The short answer is that the individual cannot, as all that has been established is that the individual has a consistently money-losing hobby. If there had been a windfall gambling, it's conceivable (not likely, but conceivable) that income averaging and a redefinition as a professional gambler could possibly be argued retroactively, but income averaging for everyone but farmers and fishermen ended in 1987. So anything like this would have had to occur prior to 1988.
    I have no idea why, but I looked up some of this a few hours ago. A professional gambler can net all wagering activity but cannot show an overall wagering loss. Also, as with any normal business you can deduct any normal and ordinary business expenses.

    I tried to review some of the rules for Schedule C but it was too long for me to digest in one sitting. The funny thing is that I work for myself as an engineer and use the Schedule C but I am damn to know the full rules for a gambler.
    Unfortunately for the redietz guess, what a professional gambler does in any year or years prior to begin filing as such, is totally irrelevant. Yes he wants it to BE that a recreational gambler who loses is not allowed for some strange reason to then begin filing as a pro. But his limited knowledge once again bites him in the wrong place. And filing as a pro gambler does not require you show a profit every single year, although I did.

    Keep trying idiots. You'll continue to see how close you can get to the mickeycrimm model of excellence.

  12. #72
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Mickeycrimm why don't you post them. If they changed and I'm wrong then I'll say so. If the rules changed I'll admit it.
    From Tax Help For Gamblers by Jean Scott and Marissa Chien:

    "....filing as a professional gambler using Schedule C has its own set of problems. First, the IRS imposes rigid requirements on anyone wanting to claim gambling as his "business," although these are not all set in stone; individual situations are considered. However, court cases have established that your intent must be to make money as a PRIMARY SOURCE OF INCOME; it must not be just a hobby."

    By Rob's own words he went to the casino one day a week for an average of four hours. And he has said he had other income plus his wife's income. Do you really think the IRS would consider Rob's limited activity in casinos a profession and his primary source of income....especially considering that his gambling activity would not generate tax dollars to the IRS?
    More dumb mickey assertions.

    When there's some years where a million or millions of dollars in W2G's are involved, let's hear exactly how the IRS is inclined to believe one is not the professional gambler they file as. I'm waiting mickey..... And can you show me where it says how much time is required to be spent winning/playing and how they'd be able to match that up to how much time I played? Oh and you forgot this--I drove 4-13 hours each way among all locations around the state. And, I spent hours training, writing, and doing things a pro gambler/writer/consultant does.

    You're so dumb.

  13. #73
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by Deech View Post
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post


    Regnis and Dan, I'm relying on you two to verify and modify this, but this is my understanding. I'm not sure my late cousin, E.R. Dietz, explained this to me properly, but he seemed to know what he was talking about.

    Mickeycrimm is more right than wrong. You should not, as an individual, file as a professional gambler unless it is your sole income-producing, full-time endeavor. The gambling is supposed to be full-time and to the exclusion of all other income-producing activities. Now, there is a recommended way to sidestep this, but it almost certainly requires other people unless you had a verifiable history of winning at gambling.

    This, of course, begets the question, "How could any individual who lost money gambling five or six or seven years consecutively as an 'AP' be approved for a professional label as a sole individual without using the sidestepping technique?" The short answer is that the individual cannot, as all that has been established is that the individual has a consistently money-losing hobby. If there had been a windfall gambling, it's conceivable (not likely, but conceivable) that income averaging and a redefinition as a professional gambler could possibly be argued retroactively, but income averaging for everyone but farmers and fishermen ended in 1987. So anything like this would have had to occur prior to 1988.
    I have no idea why, but I looked up some of this a few hours ago. A professional gambler can net all wagering activity but cannot show an overall wagering loss. Also, as with any normal business you can deduct any normal and ordinary business expenses.

    I tried to review some of the rules for Schedule C but it was too long for me to digest in one sitting. The funny thing is that I work for myself as an engineer and use the Schedule C but I am damn to know the full rules for a gambler.
    Unfortunately for the redietz guess, what a professional gambler does in any year or years prior to begin filing as such, is totally irrelevant. Yes he wants it to BE that a recreational gambler who loses is not allowed for some strange reason to then begin filing as a pro. But his limited knowledge once again bites him in the wrong place. And filing as a pro gambler does not require you show a profit every single year, although I did.

    Keep trying idiots. You'll continue to see how close you can get to the mickeycrimm model of excellence.

    No, what I clearly said is that you can switch from recreational to professional as long as gambling is your full-time sole income source. If it's not, then you should not. My apologies. I was not aware you were not employed by others during your stint as a professional. That clears up many things.

  14. #74
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Actually I'd be very surprised if any non W2G or table games player ever declared their true winnings... with the exception of kewlj, of course.
    This is because you sir are a dishonest person out to scam, and get away with whatever you can, so you assume everyone else is equally as dishonest.

    Well, I make a decent living. I have done far better than I ever hoped to and am very happy to pay my share of taxes. And even then, I choose to give back even more to my community in the form or charitable contributions. I don't know if I have ever shared this on this site, but those that know me from other sites are probably aware that I am involved in a number of charities, here in Las Vegas. My single biggest donation occurs each August, when I am the only non-corporate sponsor of a backpack and school supply give-away to lower income school children.

    You don't know me sir. Some of us are proud to pay taxes and contribute to our communities. While others like you are "shysters" trying to scam and get away with what they can.
    Why would you, a proven liar, coward, needy nut, and social dropout, ever even come close to telling yourself that anybody at all believes anything you say about yourself? You offer no proof of anything other than how badly you write and post, how you are in such DESPERATE need of relevance after the punishment wizard dished out on your sorry ass, and how easily rattled you get when anyone with a REAL name questions the bs you say about yourself. Then you get so upset with us that you can't help yourself tell obvious whoppers about each of us.

    There now can be no question as to the struggles you must constantly go thru. If anyone saw the house your mommy was trying to sell they'd understand the whole charade. And here's a flash--swimming pools are a dime a dozen in LV. Why did you use that as some type of hi-class living point? Answer: because your inexperience in life preceeds you, and your fantasy about being a professional bj player who never gets noticed betting up when the counts go positive, has been a crumbling experience.

  15. #75
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Why would you, a proven liar, coward, needy nut, and social dropout, ever even come close to telling yourself that anybody at all believes anything you say about yourself? You offer no proof of anything other than how badly you write and post, how you are in such DESPERATE need of relevance after the punishment wizard dished out on your sorry ass, and how easily rattled you get when anyone with a REAL name questions the bs you say about yourself. Then you get so upset with us that you can't help yourself tell obvious whoppers about each of us.

    There now can be no question as to the struggles you must constantly go thru. If anyone saw the house your mommy was trying to sell they'd understand the whole charade. And here's a flash--swimming pools are a dime a dozen in LV. Why did you use that as some type of hi-class living point? Answer: because your inexperience in life preceeds you, and your fantasy about being a professional bj player who never gets noticed betting up when the counts go positive, has been a crumbling experience.
    Another angry retaliatory strike from an angry bitter gambling addict. See post #67 for the full story.

  16. #76
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Actually I'd be very surprised if any non W2G or table games player ever declared their true winnings... with the exception of kewlj, of course.
    This is because you sir are a dishonest person out to scam, and get away with whatever you can, so you assume everyone else is equally as dishonest.

    Well, I make a decent living. I have done far better than I ever hoped to and am very happy to pay my share of taxes. And even then, I choose to give back even more to my community in the form or charitable contributions. I don't know if I have ever shared this on this site, but those that know me from other sites are probably aware that I am involved in a number of charities, here in Las Vegas. My single biggest donation occurs each August, when I am the only non-corporate sponsor of a backpack and school supply give-away to lower income school children.

    You don't know me sir. Some of us are proud to pay taxes and contribute to our communities. While others like you are "shysters" trying to scam and get away with what they can.
    Why would you, a proven liar, coward, needy nut, and social dropout, ever even come close to telling yourself that anybody at all believes anything you say about yourself? You offer no proof of anything other than how badly you write and post, how you are in such DESPERATE need of relevance after the punishment wizard dished out on your sorry ass, and how easily rattled you get when anyone with a REAL name questions the bs you say about yourself. Then you get so upset with us that you can't help yourself tell obvious whoppers about each of us.

    There now can be no question as to the struggles you must constantly go thru. If anyone saw the house your mommy was trying to sell they'd understand the whole charade. And here's a flash--swimming pools are a dime a dozen in LV. Why did you use that as some type of hi-class living point? Answer: because your inexperience in life preceeds you, and your fantasy about being a professional bj player who never gets noticed betting up when the counts go positive, has been a crumbling experience.
    So, Rob. Are you going to accept the challenge or not? A simple yes or no will suffice.
    "More importantly, mickey thought 8-4 was two games over .500. Argued about it. C'mon, man. Nothing can top that for math expertise. If GWAE ever has you on again, you can be sure I'll be calling in with that gem.'Nuff said." REDIETZ

  17. #77
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post

    This is because you sir are a dishonest person out to scam, and get away with whatever you can, so you assume everyone else is equally as dishonest.

    Well, I make a decent living. I have done far better than I ever hoped to and am very happy to pay my share of taxes. And even then, I choose to give back even more to my community in the form or charitable contributions. I don't know if I have ever shared this on this site, but those that know me from other sites are probably aware that I am involved in a number of charities, here in Las Vegas. My single biggest donation occurs each August, when I am the only non-corporate sponsor of a backpack and school supply give-away to lower income school children.

    You don't know me sir. Some of us are proud to pay taxes and contribute to our communities. While others like you are "shysters" trying to scam and get away with what they can.
    Why would you, a proven liar, coward, needy nut, and social dropout, ever even come close to telling yourself that anybody at all believes anything you say about yourself? You offer no proof of anything other than how badly you write and post, how you are in such DESPERATE need of relevance after the punishment wizard dished out on your sorry ass, and how easily rattled you get when anyone with a REAL name questions the bs you say about yourself. Then you get so upset with us that you can't help yourself tell obvious whoppers about each of us.

    There now can be no question as to the struggles you must constantly go thru. If anyone saw the house your mommy was trying to sell they'd understand the whole charade. And here's a flash--swimming pools are a dime a dozen in LV. Why did you use that as some type of hi-class living point? Answer: because your inexperience in life preceeds you, and your fantasy about being a professional bj player who never gets noticed betting up when the counts go positive, has been a crumbling experience.
    So, Rob. Are you going to accept the challenge or not? A simple yes or no will suffice.
    If I were able to get my tax returns from 2000-2009 the answer would be yes of course. But I'd make it for the $984,000 I won net during that time period---just as I did with that other homo Fezzik, when he and the fabled HP gang went down in a smoke that still lingers over LV.

    I'm surprised mickey. Why aren't you asking the same question of kew over my physical challenge? That tells me you would lose such a challenge to me also and you're afraid of it, just like him! C'mon, at 69 yrs. old I can't be THAT good, right?

  18. #78
    See, I learned something from Argentino today! Good stuff, too. So here are my questions:

    1) Is Fezzik really gay? I need to know this for umpteen reasons. I was completely unaware.
    2) Were you really not employed during your stint as a professional? I don't recall you ever blatantly stating that, but I guess I should have realized when you said "professional," you did mean, full time, sole-income-source professional.
    3) When is our match race? I got out to the Tweetsie Trail (look it up) at 7 AM today and, lo and behold, I can handle three miles pretty easily if it's not a goddamn 70-degree dew point. A 5K match race sounds like the ticket. So pick a July/August date and we'll give it a shot. You know, jogging the "Tweetsie Trail" sounds pretty gay itself, so I should be easy pickings.

  19. #79
    I know people who have multiple businesses and file multiple Schedule Cs each year. For example, the freelance cameraman has a Schedule C for that business and he sells at flea markets and on eBay under a different Schedule C.

    Neither had to be a primary source of income. If you have any doubts call your own tax professional or the IRS. It's silly to argue the point here when a call to the IRS will get you the right answer.

    Sometimes there's such a fuss over so little.

  20. #80
    Originally Posted by Rob.Singer View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    So, Rob. Are you going to accept the challenge or not? A simple yes or no will suffice.
    If I were able to get my tax returns from 2000-2009 the answer would be yes of course. But I'd make it for the $984,000 I won net during that time period---just as I did with that other homo Fezzik, when he and the fabled HP gang went down in a smoke that still lingers over LV.

    I'm surprised mickey. Why aren't you asking the same question of kew over my physical challenge? That tells me you would lose such a challenge to me also and you're afraid of it, just like him! C'mon, at 69 yrs. old I can't be THAT good, right?
    I see we are back to $900K. Amazing how half a million disappeared from the equation in a matter of minutes.

    But that is ok.....I accept the figure $984,000. I will contact Bob Nersesian and have him draw up papers that you and your attorney can agree to. We will then schedule an appointment, hopefully immediately, (like next week) with Tompkins and Peters at which time we will both deposit certified checks into an escrow account and get this ball rolling. I am confident Tompkins and Peters will be able tp retrieve your tax records through the IRS, since they will be doing so on your behalf.
    Last edited by kewlJ; 07-07-2018 at 06:38 PM.

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