Rob Singer didn't beat video poker

[jbjb]

Rob, are these the same casino execs that you claim told you card counting is no longer possible?

No. Only one of them. And until you prove that you can still make five figures "counting cards" no sane person could believe you.

Oh that's right....you think you're still on WoV or some bastardized BJ forum, where if the words "Hey guys, I'm an AP....look at me!!" are written, no proof is necessary BECAUSE YOU SAY SO!

It doesn't get any more stupid than that.

The fact is they have every reason to lie to you. They were using you and anyone else that will publish their propaganda. And you are too stupid to even realize it. All you have to do is look at what they do vs what they say.

Take the Hard Rock for example. They are super paranoid of card counters. They spend a ton of money on card counting counter measures...far, far more than they lose to card counters. They subscribe to every database service and hire just about every consultant that comes knocking at their door. They have an aggressive approach to backing off and barring card counters. So much so that for every legit card counter they counter measure, they are counter measuring probably 10 legitimate -EV players, who were either not counting or not doing it well enough or properly bankrolled enough to do any harm. Case in point would be the very public backoff of one Ben Affleck, who probably wasn't even playing a +EV game.

So them telling you or anyone that will listen that card counting doesn't work, while spending huge amounts to try to stop card counters should raise a red flag to anyone with half a brain.

It's the same exact thing with machine play and machine AP. You follow the money, follow their actions, not what propaganda they are telling you, hoping you will help get their fake message out.

Rob, I don't believe you are this stupid. I believe you have half a brain.....USE IT! Use a little common sense. This is the problem with you college educated guys. You think and tell us that you are soooo smart. But more often than not you have the common sense of a brick.

Of course these "casino executives" have every reason to lie to him. I'm also certain Rob is lying about even interviewing these people.

Rob has an agenda. It is to get the suckers to not believe in AP so he can push his bullshit system on these same suckers (it is a system! It is not a strategy). He says he "trains" them for free (another lie), but really, he wants a cut if that player gets lucky and wins. When they inevitably lose, Rob runs off to the next sucker!

[Alan Mendelson]

I think this statement by jbjb is worthy of some discussion. I never discussed it with Rob but Rob has told me he will train anyone for free and he said he doesn't have the student play on his card.

Now the statement:

"He says he "trains" them for free (another lie), but really, he wants a cut if that player gets lucky and wins. When they inevitably lose, Rob runs off to the next sucker!"

1. How do you know he doesn't train for free?
2. What about this "cut" if the student wins? I don't recall seeing that before.
3. Are you suggesting Rob should guarantee a winning training session?

[AxelWolf]

I think this statement by jbjb is worthy of some discussion. I never discussed it with Rob but Rob has told me he will train anyone for free and he said he doesn't have the student play on his card.

Now the statement:

"He says he "trains" them for free (another lie), but really, he wants a cut if that player gets lucky and wins. When they inevitably lose, Rob runs off to the next sucker!"

1. How do you know he doesn't train for free?
2. What about this "cut" if the student wins? I don't recall seeing that before.
3. Are you suggesting Rob should guarantee a winning training session?

I have no doubt he wants to train them for free.

Alan if you had a system that only required a 57k BR that made you $2500 per session what would you be doing?

[Rob.Singer]

Alan you're holding a jealous hater's feet to the fire again. What choice does an armchair gambler like jbjb have other than to deny any point anyone makes against his beliefs while fabricating stuff about someone whom he consistently does that type of dumb thing against. His tell was in claiming I never even interviewed anyone. Of course he needs to believe that lie, in order that he doesn't go out of his mind. And it's all out of a very deep frustration with that which he knows very little to nothing about.

Kew isn't bring very creative in his denials either. How would he know anything about how much HRH spends on anti-counting, other than from his armchair fantasy where it SOUNDS good. And I'm still waiting for one of these people to explain exactly why any casino manager would lie to me about any of this, when I was actually shown the system in place at the Peppermill about two years ago or so, that matches precisely to what I was told multiple times in LV. Can you just imagine---the teenie-weenie little insignificant Peppermill choreographed the entire scene for little old Rob Singer, who they know as Rob Argentino btw.

Denial in the face of facts---the second biggest fault with liars.

[kewlJ]

Here's what this boils down to:

Member Rob Singer claims to have come up with a progressive betting system that can turn a -EV gambling exercise into a +EV longterm winner, despite the mathematics that say this is impossible.

Professional Advantage player members Mickeycrimm, Axelwolf, RS, Monet, MaxPen, JBJB, and myself, along with professional sports handicapper Redietz (who doesn't consider himself an AP) and professional poker player and site owner Dan Druff, among others on the site, have reviewed these claims and found them to be mathematically impossible or in Dan Druff's words "absolutely impossible".

2 additional members Alan Mendelson and Slingshot, support Singer's claims, although by their own admission, neither has played, nor even understands Singer's so called "system". Rob Singer can produce no one that has successfully played his mathematically impossible system.

So here is what I propose: Since degenerate gambler Alan doesn't have any money and lives retirement/SS check, to check, unable to pay his bills like most degenerate gamblers, Alan should "borrow" $57,000 from his son, who he probably already owes that much to, learn and play Singer's amazing system and report back to us.

If Singer's system performs in the manner that Singer and vehement supporter Alan (who supports the system without even knowing it), says it will, the argument will be over AND Alan will have solved his debt problem and can repay his son all the money he owes. Win-win for everyone. What say you Alan?

[Alan Mendelson]

Rob the fact is you wrote a column for Gaming Today. You had access.

[Alan Mendelson]

Kewlj are you really serious. Here you go again:

"2 additional members Alan Mendelson and Slingshot, support Singer's claims, although by their own admission, neither has played, nor even understands Singer's so called "system"."

If I don't play it, don't know it, don't understand it, how can I support it?

I've been civil to you, but you're pushing it.

[kewlJ]

Kewlj are you really serious. Here you go again:

"2 additional members Alan Mendelson and Slingshot, support Singer's claims, although by their own admission, neither has played, nor even understands Singer's so called "system"."

If I don't play it, don't know it, don't understand it, how can I support it?

I've been civil to you, but you're pushing it.

How can you support it? That is what we would all like to know Alan? My guess is because you are afraid of Rob.

Regardless, this win-win situation will solve the whole issue. Know what might be even better? Borrow the money from Rob Singer. Rob frequently states that he has more money than he will ever be able to spend. And if this miracle system is what Rob has claimed for years, he has nothing to lose.

Oh and stop with your silly threats, of which you have made several of today Alan.... no one cares or takes you seriously. But here is your chance to have that relevance that you so desperately seek.

[Alan Mendelson]

Kewlj I'm retired. Yes I live on a pension from 46 years of work under SAG-AFTRA plus Social Security. I'm 66 years old. I work maybe four days every three months. I have a Cadillac health insurance plan for life. I only hope that when you're my age you have half of the security I have because as a full time gambler your safety net is non existent. Good luck to you. Like redietz I'm now blocking you. You're dead to me.

[kewlJ]

You're dead to me.

This is your response, Alan? Very sad and weak.

I don't see where I have said anything that is untrue. Your response of running away only confirms that.

Why is my proposal not acceptable to you Alan. Your chance to prove us all wrong, prove Rob Singer, who you have been defending and enabling for years, right....prove him a gambling genius. AND solve your personal financial situation all at the same time.

Running away like a little girl instead, only confirms you are on the wrong side of all these issues and what your agenda really is/was. Just as I have been saying for quite some time. Thanks for confirming that Alan.

[slingshot]

Kewlj are you really serious. Here you go again:

"2 additional members Alan Mendelson and Slingshot, support Singer's claims, although by their own admission, neither has played, nor even understands Singer's so called "system"."

If I don't play it, don't know it, don't understand it, how can I support it?

I've been civil to you, but you're pushing it.

I wouldn't support if I hadn't played the strategies. I plainly said many times I played his single play strategy ONCE- starting at nickels- and won $80. It took and hour and a half, since it was my first try, and I had to pick up my wife- who was shopping. It is mentally challenging and tiring. I normally win- playing artt - $60-150 @ 5¢-10¢-25¢- even tho Rob says 4 or more denominations is recommended. It's also faster than the other two strategies and I don't have to sit in the casino as long. I hope this settles that as I don't like posting here. So, for the last time, I HAVE played the 3 main strategies, I'm not making millions, I love artt- it's brilliant in design- and with 400 credits there is the ability to actually change machines 2-3 times if conditions warrant. That is an important factor that I only learned from Rob in the past 2 years. Now if Rob thinks I don't know his strategies, that's another matter.

[kewlJ]

Kewlj are you really serious. Here you go again:

"2 additional members Alan Mendelson and Slingshot, support Singer's claims, although by their own admission, neither has played, nor even understands Singer's so called "system"."

If I don't play it, don't know it, don't understand it, how can I support it?

I've been civil to you, but you're pushing it.

I wouldn't support if I hadn't played the strategies. I plainly said many times I played his single play strategy ONCE- starting at nickels- and won $80. It took and hour and a half, since it was my first try, and I had to pick up my wife- who was shopping. It is mentally challenging and tiring. I normally win- playing artt - $60-150 @ 5¢-10¢-25¢- even tho Rob says 4 or more denominations is recommended. It's also faster than the other two strategies and I don't have to sit in the casino as long. I hope this settles that as I don't like posting here. So, for the last time, I HAVE played the 3 main strategies, I'm not making millions, I love artt- it's brilliant in design- and with 400 credits there is the ability to actually change machines 2-3 times if conditions warrant. That is an important factor that I only learned from Rob in the past 2 years. Now if Rob thinks I don't know his strategies, that's another matter.

Played it ONCE slingshot?

Without getting nasty, let me explain to you how progressive betting systems work. They can not change the longterm outcome, can not change a -EV game into a +EV game, which is what you need to make money longterm. What they do is change the short-term distribution of wins and losses (not the total wins and losses). Best example is the common Martingale system. You will end up with many small win, BUT then will come a large loss that wipes out all those small wins and then some. Every progressive system applied to a -EV game has the exact same outcome throughout the history of time.

So your one single trial, has absolutely no meaning, and one would expect you to have such results. You will be completely unable to maintain that going forward. That large loss, wiping out all those small wins will come. Just like the Titanic sinking, once water started filling the chambers.....it is a mathematical certainty. (remember that line?)

I guess with Alan running away, you are on deck slingshot. Rob should lend you the $57,000 bankroll needed from the "so much money that he will never be able to spend" and have you prove us all wrong and prove rob who you have blindly supported a gambling genius. It will also allow you to build the bankroll, you need and have been unable to build, to build your own "so much money, you won't be able to spend it all" financial windfall.


In all seriousness, my purpose in debunking Rob's fantastic mathematically impossible claims, is the same purpose I had several years ago in challenging similarly impossible claims on a blackjack site (which led to my banning at several sites). I don't like to see innocent people that can probably ill afford to get sucked in to losing their hard earned money playing these impossible claims. I don't think that is fair.

On this site, with limited membership, you are the member most likely to be hurt. And although you have been a dick to me, I don't want to see that. In addition there are probably one or two other members that are less vocal (lurkers) who are, or have been sucked in. That is why I speak out against these types of things.

And it's funny, these guys with the fraudulent "magical" claims, all have one thing in common, one thing necessary for their nonsense to gain traction. They speak well (or write well) and always come up fancy catch phrases and terminology like "soft profits" that are complete nonsense and have no real meaning. And they always have some kind of alternative math, that serves to muddy the water. Because that is their game.

[RS__]

Alan how come you don't post about playing $25 denom VP anymore? It's all 25c VP? What's up?

[Alan Mendelson]

Alan how come you don't post about playing $25 denom VP anymore? It's all 25c VP? What's up?

I am retired RS___. I live off of a pension (which thankfully unlike a 401k never goes away) and Social Security.

Red Rock has 8/5 Bonus Poker at 25-cents and sometimes $5 craps which suits me just fine.

[MaxPen]

Soft Profits would make a good title for a depressing country song.

[LarryS]

what i dont understand is this. I have said I believe kj makes a living as an AP. MrV has said the same. I am guessing MC believes it because he lives an AP life when he is sober.

So who is fucking left...Alan and Singer? The 2 viigest losers as people dont believe kJ and he continually needs to make there 2 believe? This is a sickness. An obsession.

Why does kj elevate these 2 people to such a high level that he needs to continually put up wit their anti-gay bullshit and their skepticism. Most likely a manufactured skepticism that is produced just to fuck with kj's head.

KJ seeks drama....he wears a kick me sign and then cries when people kick him.

the one person who engages singer and alan the most is KJ....KJ gives them life...gives them power...just by treating them as "somebodies" who have accomplishments in life.

[kewlJ]

what i dont understand is this. I have said I believe kj makes a living as an AP. MrV has said the same. I am guessing MC believes it because he lives an AP life when he is sober.

So who is fucking left...Alan and Singer? The 2 viigest losers as people dont believe kJ and he continually needs to make there 2 believe? This is a sickness. An obsession.

Why does kj elevate these 2 people to such a high level that he needs to continually put up wit their anti-gay bullshit and their skepticism. Most likely a manufactured skepticism that is produced just to fuck with kj's head.

KJ seeks drama....he wears a kick me sign and then cries when people kick him.

the one person who engages singer and alan the most is KJ....KJ gives them life...gives them power...just by treating them as "somebodies" who have accomplishments in life.

LarryS, you have said this or similar along these lines before. And there is some truth to the idea that by engaging them, I also empower them. But there is another side also.

Alan and Singer are the two top active posters on this site, by far. I can and do let some of the anti-gay hate go. Other times I rebut that. But I am not going to let these frequent attempts to discredit me, and my accomplishments, by the top two posters of the site go without fighting back. I have worked hard and continue to work hard for what limited success I have achieved as a card counter / AP. I will not let these two bitter (bitter because they are losing players) posters, tear that down and tarnish my reputation in the AP community without fighting back.

And you might say, well what is the big deal, this site has 12, 15, maybe 20 active members. But there are many more lurkers. AP's in particular like to read many sites, often looking for little tidbits of information that can be benifical. I have seen members of other sites, somewhat known AP's, post ideas and things I have said here, almost to the word, so I know this site's reach extends beyond the limited number of members that participate here. I am just NOT going to let these people, these bitter losing players tarnish my reputation and accomplishments, of which I am proud of, without a rebuttal.

[mickeycrimm]

Nothings wrong with any of this stuff. Playing less hands on a -EV game is always a good thing. The wrong is when you claim your system is profitable and one will become a winning player if they use it. If Rob touted his system as an etertaining way to lose less money most of us wouldnt have a problem with it.[/QUOTE]

Exactly how is it "wrong" after I've won so much using it....while you have no idea what it is about? The lazy way as I said is for people to simply say it's not a winner because it's played on less than 100% games. I suppose you'd say it IS a winner if played on a 100.17% game right? And that is as ignorant and close-minded as it gets.

Bob Dancer tries using the stupid phrase "playing less hands/slowly/low denominations is fine if you're playing for entertainment on 99.9999% games". But he looks so foolish when he spews such nonsense. I've won more than him--not because I play more than him....hey, he's a poker machine's addict's addict. But because he loses and I don't. Why? He's still playing, working, and paying Shirley like a dog, and he's OLDER than me. I spend $3000-6000/week as I will for the rest of my life, enjoying travel and retirement the way it was meant to be enjoyed. He, like most ap's are stuck in the same old rut that leads to nowhere.

So please wise up axel and try to stop saying dumb things. It would be different if you had good knowledge on what I do but you don't show that you do....even though I believe you'd get it like my ap friend in LV does.[/QUOTE]

Singer is not and has never been in Bob Dancer's league as far as video poker play goes. He's the one guy Rob has been more jealous of than any other. Did you know that Rob once entered the office of Jeffrey Compton who, at time was partners in a business venture with Dancer, and asked Compton for a job. Compton was incredulous. He asked Rob about all the crazy stuff he writes about video poker and all the bashing he had done on Dancer on the internet. Rob told him he did it just to get a rise out of people. Dancer/Compton turned him down flat for a job.

A few years later Rob emailed Dancer and proposed to him that he and Singer should be friends in public. Dancer told him that after all the scurrilous things he had written about him there was no way they could ever be friends. If you notice, the two high profile video poker people that Rob has slandered the most, Jean Scott and Bob Dancer, ignore him. They could make all kinds of comments about him on the internet but don't. They never write or post about him and his vp tactics. The one thing that really chaps Rob's ass is being ignored.

[Alan Mendelson]

I don't understand what you're saying LarryS. I have plenty of accomplishments in life and I've never claimed any in casinos.

As far as Rob goes, some of what he says makes perfect sense and then there are some of you who just twist everything he says to meet your own agenda.

For a start Rob never said he turns a -EV game into a positive game. Yet there are "APs" who say that with comps and promotions the -EV games they play are turned into +EV activities.

It's a funny world, don't you think?

[mickeycrimm]

Roxy Roxyborough of Las Vegas Sports Consultants used to set the lines for American sports. He retired to somewhere in the south pacific. He got his start betting baseball totals at the Cal-Neva in Reno. And he was living in his car until he got on his feet. He was so good at beating baseball totals that the the Cal-Neva asked him to set their lines. In the end he wound up setting the lines on everything.