Oh, How Much Better Can This Get?

[seemoreroyals]

The market was bottomed out from the 2008 meltdown when Obama took over. It had nowhere to go but up....especially with zero percent interest rate. How many jobs left the country under Obama? And he said they were never coming back too. People having to work two part time jobs. Record number of people on food stamps. High taxes. And you're comparing 8 years to 2 years.

No, I'm not comparing 8 years to 2 years. Read the article again. It compares the first 645 days of each presidency. If you want to compare 8 years to 2 years it would be 182% for Obama to 29% for Trump.

I will agree with you on one point, and that is the market was bottoming when Obama came into office, but don't say the market has done better under Trump than Obama because it is not true.

"There are 3 kinds of lies. Lies, damn lies, and statistics." Mark Twain

The market had bottomed at 8000 when Obama took over. By August 2011 the market was at 11,000. That's not 183%. More like 37%. It was helped along by zero percent prime rate. But that rise did nothing for job creation. Unemployment was at 9% in 2009 and 8.5% in 2011. And the 8.5% figure is somewhat phony because so many people had quit actively looking for work. The Trump stock market rise put a lot of people back to work and those already working saw pay increases.

And then there is the 4th type of lie. That told by either Mickey Crimm, Rob Singer, or Donald J. Trump. Basis for their facts is either Alex Jones, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, or some other misinformed like minded individual. The purpose of their lies is to intimidate or influence weak minded or uneducated people that are not able to look at both sides and decide for themselves.

[Rob.Singer]

No, I'm not comparing 8 years to 2 years. Read the article again. It compares the first 645 days of each presidency. If you want to compare 8 years to 2 years it would be 182% for Obama to 29% for Trump.

I will agree with you on one point, and that is the market was bottoming when Obama came into office, but don't say the market has done better under Trump than Obama because it is not true.

"There are 3 kinds of lies. Lies, damn lies, and statistics." Mark Twain

The market had bottomed at 8000 when Obama took over. By August 2011 the market was at 11,000. That's not 183%. More like 37%. It was helped along by zero percent prime rate. But that rise did nothing for job creation. Unemployment was at 9% in 2009 and 8.5% in 2011. And the 8.5% figure is somewhat phony because so many people had quit actively looking for work. The Trump stock market rise put a lot of people back to work and those already working saw pay increases.

And then there is the 4th type of lie. That told by either Mickey Crimm, Rob Singer, or Donald J. Trump. Basis for their facts is either Alex Jones, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, or some other misinformed like minded individual. The purpose of their lies is to intimidate or influence weak minded or uneducated people that are not able to look at both sides and decide for themselves.

All the liberal lying and posturing doesn't change the one fact that guarantees Trump being elected for a 2nd term: the economy.

Now YOU may not have a retirement account, but both my wife and I do. And I'll tell you one sure thing that confused and angry peoplelike you do not want to understand: we don't work, we spend A LOT of money, and we still have almost as much value in both our accounts as we had the day Trump was elected.

We are certainly not alone. Plus those who work and contribute likely have far more money now than they did then, and wages are up/taxes are down. So all the lies in the world by libtards and never-Trumpers like our misguided sling, will ever affect the votes of the general public. You might be able to get some foreigners, minorities, queers, etc. to vote for one of those nutjob democratic candidates because many of them would rather have handouts, but it'll mean little overall.

Eli's coming....again.

[redietz]

"There are 3 kinds of lies. Lies, damn lies, and statistics." Mark Twain

The market had bottomed at 8000 when Obama took over. By August 2011 the market was at 11,000. That's not 183%. More like 37%. It was helped along by zero percent prime rate. But that rise did nothing for job creation. Unemployment was at 9% in 2009 and 8.5% in 2011. And the 8.5% figure is somewhat phony because so many people had quit actively looking for work. The Trump stock market rise put a lot of people back to work and those already working saw pay increases.

And then there is the 4th type of lie. That told by either Mickey Crimm, Rob Singer, or Donald J. Trump. Basis for their facts is either Alex Jones, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, or some other misinformed like minded individual. The purpose of their lies is to intimidate or influence weak minded or uneducated people that are not able to look at both sides and decide for themselves.

All the liberal lying and posturing doesn't change the one fact that guarantees Trump being elected for a 2nd term: the economy.

Now YOU may not have a retirement account, but both my wife and I do. And I'll tell you one sure thing that confused and angry peoplelike you do not want to understand: we don't work, we spend A LOT of money, and we still have almost as much value in both our accounts as we had the day Trump was elected.

We are certainly not alone. Plus those who work and contribute likely have far more money now than they did then, and wages are up/taxes are down. So all the lies in the world by libtards and never-Trumpers like our misguided sling, will ever affect the votes of the general public. You might be able to get some foreigners, minorities, queers, etc. to vote for one of those nutjob democratic candidates because many of them would rather have handouts, but it'll mean little overall.

Eli's coming....again.

Sounds as if somebody's itching to bet the 2020 presidential election. Well, I just saw a -125 on Trump at youwager. I'd be willing to take a whack at +140 coming back the other way on the Democratic nominee (whoever it is) winning the thing.

So, I'm not sure what "guaranteeing" a win means, oddswise, but that what the poster above said about the economy. It sure seems like a +140 would fall well within that opinion's comfort range. I'm sure Todd would hold the money. That's what he does.

[slingshot]

And then there is the 4th type of lie. That told by either Mickey Crimm, Rob Singer, or Donald J. Trump. Basis for their facts is either Alex Jones, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, or some other misinformed like minded individual. The purpose of their lies is to intimidate or influence weak minded or uneducated people that are not able to look at both sides and decide for themselves.

All the liberal lying and posturing doesn't change the one fact that guarantees Trump being elected for a 2nd term: the economy.

Now YOU may not have a retirement account, but both my wife and I do. And I'll tell you one sure thing that confused and angry peoplelike you do not want to understand: we don't work, we spend A LOT of money, and we still have almost as much value in both our accounts as we had the day Trump was elected.

We are certainly not alone. Plus those who work and contribute likely have far more money now than they did then, and wages are up/taxes are down. So all the lies in the world by libtards and never-Trumpers like our misguided sling, will ever affect the votes of the general public. You might be able to get some foreigners, minorities, queers, etc. to vote for one of those nutjob democratic candidates because many of them would rather have handouts, but it'll mean little overall.

Eli's coming....again.

Sounds as if somebody's itching to bet the 2020 presidential election. Well, I just saw a -125 on Trump at youwager. I'd be willing to take a whack at +140 coming back the other way on the Democratic nominee (whoever it is) winning the thing.

So, I'm not sure what "guaranteeing" a win means, oddswise, but that what the poster above said about the economy. It sure seems like a +140 would fall well within that opinion's comfort range. I'm sure Todd would hold the money. That's what he does.

I wouldn't bet on this election. Unless a viable candidate appears, I'll do like last year and vote for the lesser of two evils. My middle son thought I wasn't voting for my beliefs. I asked him if I should then vote for Hillary instead. He never answered.

[mickeycrimm]

No, I'm not comparing 8 years to 2 years. Read the article again. It compares the first 645 days of each presidency. If you want to compare 8 years to 2 years it would be 182% for Obama to 29% for Trump.

I will agree with you on one point, and that is the market was bottoming when Obama came into office, but don't say the market has done better under Trump than Obama because it is not true.

"There are 3 kinds of lies. Lies, damn lies, and statistics." Mark Twain

The market had bottomed at 8000 when Obama took over. By August 2011 the market was at 11,000. That's not 183%. More like 37%. It was helped along by zero percent prime rate. But that rise did nothing for job creation. Unemployment was at 9% in 2009 and 8.5% in 2011. And the 8.5% figure is somewhat phony because so many people had quit actively looking for work. The Trump stock market rise put a lot of people back to work and those already working saw pay increases.

And then there is the 4th type of lie. That told by either Mickey Crimm, Rob Singer, or Donald J. Trump. Basis for their facts is either Alex Jones, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, or some other misinformed like minded individual. The purpose of their lies is to intimidate or influence weak minded or uneducated people that are not able to look at both sides and decide for themselves.

And you have to cobble together the poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities and rich elites to try and win in 2020 because everyone else is against you.

[redietz]

"There are 3 kinds of lies. Lies, damn lies, and statistics." Mark Twain

The market had bottomed at 8000 when Obama took over. By August 2011 the market was at 11,000. That's not 183%. More like 37%. It was helped along by zero percent prime rate. But that rise did nothing for job creation. Unemployment was at 9% in 2009 and 8.5% in 2011. And the 8.5% figure is somewhat phony because so many people had quit actively looking for work. The Trump stock market rise put a lot of people back to work and those already working saw pay increases.

And then there is the 4th type of lie. That told by either Mickey Crimm, Rob Singer, or Donald J. Trump. Basis for their facts is either Alex Jones, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, or some other misinformed like minded individual. The purpose of their lies is to intimidate or influence weak minded or uneducated people that are not able to look at both sides and decide for themselves.

And you have to cobble together the poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities and rich elites to try and win in 2020 because everyone else is against you.

Sounds as if someone wants to make a 2020 popular vote wager.

[kewlJ]

Sounds as if someone wants to make a 2020 popular vote wager.

Geez, is there anybody that really believes the popular vote will be in question?

The democrats will win the popular vote, no matter who the candidate and probably by more than 2016 which was what 3 million after all the votes were counted.

The only thing in question, in my mind is if Trump can patch together just enough to thread the needle to a slim electoral college victory, mirroring 2016.

I don't bet online. I don't trust any online sites. Nevada doesn't take bets on politics and I probably wouldn't be crazy about tying up funds for 15 months anyway. But if I was going to bet on the 2020 election, I would bet on the democrats. I am talking strictly bet, not who I favor. Frankly, I haven't found anyone among the democrats I could vote for and don't care for any Democratic positions I have heard so far. And if reparations is part of the democratic platform, I will not only not vote for a democrat this time, but will never again consider a democrat for anything. I am strongly against paying people for something that happened hundreds of years ago. Nobody a live today is responsible for that shitty chapter of our history. It is just a thinly veiled way of trying to buy the support of the blacks.

Now just as a political junkie, no super partisan like some here , I see real trouble on the horizon for the republicans and TRump in 2020 and reaching far beyond.

Texas is an immediate danger that could alter things for a very long time. The Latino population is growing super fast. Projections now say that there will be more Latino voters by 2022 than white voters in Texas. For a while they have been saying this was coming, and Trump seems to have feuled a high voter registration of Latinos in the last year and it now looks like it will be sooner than expected. This is real bad news for Republicans far beyond 2020. If Texas flips, whether 2020, or 2024 or when ever the Republicans are going to have to "find" a whole lot of electoral votes to make up for that to be competitive. I have no idea where?

More specific to 2020, Trump is down big time in support for one key group. White suburban women. He is down all over with that group from 2016 levels, but Texas the drop off is severe. He is down about 25 points. White suburban women have different priorities. And polling indicates this group in particular is extremely turned off by separations of families and the whole children in cages situation. And the women in Texas have seen that constantly being in their own backyard. I don't know how Trump turns that around.

One other real bad sign for Trump is that traditionally and incumbent, president, senator, who has support of 46% or less in the polls, loses like 99% of the time. Even if they are winning like 46% to 40% with a bunch of undecided (which Trump isn't). The common wisdom is that voters know who the incumbent is, and none more so that Trump. If they know him/her and their policies and aren't supporting then, they aren't going to break for them at the end. Traditionally, undecided break against an incumbent that is at 46% or lower. 46% is the key number. I don't know why. Trump is well below 46% and has been every single day of his presidency.

But there are two possible saving graces for Trump. One would be a fairly strong third candidate. Not a 1 or 2% candidate, but someone that gets 5-6%. That could allow someone like trump that has 45-46% support enough to thread that electoral college needle, if things fall JUST right.

The second thing that could change and likely will change some, is there is no democratic candidate right now. Polls are just a reflection of Trump. Even polls showing a specific matchup like Biden vs Trump. At this point, it is just a reflection of Trumps unpopularity. I wouldn't put much meaning in that until someone is officially the democratic candidate. I mean suppose a Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren becomes the democratic candidate. All of the sudden you might have some folks that don't approve of Trump finding they like Bernie or Liz even less.

[mickeycrimm]

And then there is the 4th type of lie. That told by either Mickey Crimm, Rob Singer, or Donald J. Trump. Basis for their facts is either Alex Jones, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, or some other misinformed like minded individual. The purpose of their lies is to intimidate or influence weak minded or uneducated people that are not able to look at both sides and decide for themselves.

And you have to cobble together the poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities and rich elites to try and win in 2020 because everyone else is against you.

Sounds as if someone wants to make a 2020 popular vote wager.

Looking for suckers, Redietz? It looks like Rob has been right about you all along. You're on here trying to hustle up money. Everyone knows Hillary won the popular vote by 3 million. You seem to think my political views make me believe Trump is a shoo-in in 2020. Nothing could be further from the truth. I never underestimate the stupidity of the American people.

[redietz]

And you have to cobble together the poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities and rich elites to try and win in 2020 because everyone else is against you.

Sounds as if someone wants to make a 2020 popular vote wager.

Looking for suckers, Redietz? It looks like Rob has been right about you all along. You're on here trying to hustle up money. Everyone knows Hillary won the popular vote by 3 million. You seem to think my political views make me believe Trump is a shoo-in in 2020. Nothing could be further from the truth. I never underestimate the stupidity of the American people.

LOL. Don't let me put words in your mouth, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you just admitted that the "everyone else" you mention above is outnumbered by the "poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities, and rich elites." So, if that's the case, then isn't that the way democracies are supposed to work -- you know, the folks who outnumber the other folks (and vote) get their candidates in office? Or is it supposed to work another way?

Trump is obviously not a shoo-in, precisely because the, ahem, poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities (soon to not be minorities), rich elites, and let's not forget the socialists -- they outnumber the "everyone else." Plus the "everyone elses" are older and dying off faster than the list previously mentioned. Now last I checked, and again, correct me if I'm wrong, I thought that was the way democracies worked.

Of course, if you're advocating for something other than a democracy, I'm all ears.

Two notes from me:

1) I was horrified to find the kind of blowback Biden caught from Latino organizations for stating a couple of practical immigration policies. I cannot believe that family reunification is supposed to (pardon the pun) trump the pragmatics of immigration. The United States does not have unlimited resources, regardless of how much we blow on defense spending.

2) Conservative radio host Joe Walsh delivered some hard-hitting anti-Trump interviews in the last few days, basically finally saying what I can't believe conservatives have kept a lid on for months.

[BoSox]

Sounds as if someone wants to make a 2020 popular vote wager.

Looking for suckers, Redietz? It looks like Rob has been right about you all along. You're on here trying to hustle up money. Everyone knows Hillary won the popular vote by 3 million. You seem to think my political views make me believe Trump is a shoo-in in 2020. Nothing could be further from the truth. I never underestimate the stupidity of the American people.

LOL. Don't let me put words in your mouth, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you just admitted that the "everyone else" you mention above is outnumbered by the "poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities, and rich elites." So, if that's the case, then isn't that the way democracies are supposed to work -- you know, the folks who outnumber the other folks (and vote) get their candidates in office? Or is it supposed to work another way?

Trump is obviously not a shoo-in, precisely because the, ahem, poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities (soon to not be minorities), rich elites, and let's not forget the socialists -- they outnumber the "everyone else." Plus the "everyone elses" are older and dying off faster than the list previously mentioned. Now last I checked, and again, correct me if I'm wrong, I thought that was the way democracies worked.

Of course, if you're advocating for something other than a democracy, I'm all ears.

Sounds like you have the recipe for a Banana Republic and the end of capitalism as we currently know it.

[mickeycrimm]

Sounds as if someone wants to make a 2020 popular vote wager.

Looking for suckers, Redietz? It looks like Rob has been right about you all along. You're on here trying to hustle up money. Everyone knows Hillary won the popular vote by 3 million. You seem to think my political views make me believe Trump is a shoo-in in 2020. Nothing could be further from the truth. I never underestimate the stupidity of the American people.

LOL. Don't let me put words in your mouth, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you just admitted that the "everyone else" you mention above is outnumbered by the "poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities, and rich elites." So, if that's the case, then isn't that the way democracies are supposed to work -- you know, the folks who outnumber the other folks (and vote) get their candidates in office? Or is it supposed to work another way?

Trump is obviously not a shoo-in, precisely because the, ahem, poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities (soon to not be minorities), rich elites, and let's not forget the socialists -- they outnumber the "everyone else." Plus the "everyone elses" are older and dying off faster than the list previously mentioned. Now last I checked, and again, correct me if I'm wrong, I thought that was the way democracies worked.

Of course, if you're advocating for something other than a democracy, I'm all ears.

Two notes from me:

1) I was horrified to find the kind of blowback Biden caught from Latino organizations for stating a couple of practical immigration policies. I cannot believe that family reunification is supposed to (pardon the pun) trump the pragmatics of immigration. The United States does not have unlimited resources, regardless of how much we blow on defense spending.

2) Conservative radio host Joe Walsh delivered some hard-hitting anti-Trump interviews in the last few days, basically finally saying what I can't believe conservatives have kept a lid on for months.

Redietz, this might be the stupidist post you've ever made. You imply I'm against fair elections. GTFO. The "everyone else" I'm referring to is the working class who have taken it up the ass for 30 years while your precious democrats take care of the poor/minorities/gays/immigrants. The working class is sick and tired of no representation. And then that "if you're advocating for something other than a democracy" bullshit. Get the fuck out you fucking buffoon. Or should I say "If you are advocating for a civil war I'm all ears."

PS: Joe Walsh is a wingnut.

[redietz]

Looking for suckers, Redietz? It looks like Rob has been right about you all along. You're on here trying to hustle up money. Everyone knows Hillary won the popular vote by 3 million. You seem to think my political views make me believe Trump is a shoo-in in 2020. Nothing could be further from the truth. I never underestimate the stupidity of the American people.

LOL. Don't let me put words in your mouth, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you just admitted that the "everyone else" you mention above is outnumbered by the "poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities, and rich elites." So, if that's the case, then isn't that the way democracies are supposed to work -- you know, the folks who outnumber the other folks (and vote) get their candidates in office? Or is it supposed to work another way?

Trump is obviously not a shoo-in, precisely because the, ahem, poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities (soon to not be minorities), rich elites, and let's not forget the socialists -- they outnumber the "everyone else." Plus the "everyone elses" are older and dying off faster than the list previously mentioned. Now last I checked, and again, correct me if I'm wrong, I thought that was the way democracies worked.

Of course, if you're advocating for something other than a democracy, I'm all ears.

Two notes from me:

1) I was horrified to find the kind of blowback Biden caught from Latino organizations for stating a couple of practical immigration policies. I cannot believe that family reunification is supposed to (pardon the pun) trump the pragmatics of immigration. The United States does not have unlimited resources, regardless of how much we blow on defense spending.

2) Conservative radio host Joe Walsh delivered some hard-hitting anti-Trump interviews in the last few days, basically finally saying what I can't believe conservatives have kept a lid on for months.

Redietz, this might be the stupidist post you've ever made. You imply I'm against fair elections. GTFO. The "everyone else" I'm referring to is the working class who have taken it up the ass for 30 years while your precious democrats take care of the poor/minorities/gays/immigrants. The working class is sick and tired of no representation. And then that "if you're advocating for something other than a democracy" bullshit. Get the fuck out you fucking buffoon. Or should I say "If you are advocating for a civil war I'm all ears."

PS: Joe Walsh is a wingnut.

You know, mickey, the "working class," which by your definition doesn't include "poor/welfare class, gays, immigrants, minorities" and socialists, I suppose, evidently doesn't outnumber "everybody else" (according to you). So what's your beef? If they haven't voted their interests, and they're outnumbered, what exactly are you complaining about? You don't like a two party system with nobody catering to the working class? Great -- welcome to the club. You may be a card-carrying communist and not know it.

Meanwhile, mickey aside, here's a column by an author whose book, The Death of Expertise, I loved. He's an international specialist with a Russia focus who teaches at the U.S. Naval War College. Not exactly a wingnut.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...an/2013614001/

I have absolutely no idea how anyone following Trump for 40 years could possibly draw the conclusion he would be a working class champion. It requires you to prioritize what he said for 18 months during the campaign over what actions he took for 35 years. We're talking about 3500 lawsuits against subcontractors or launched by subcontractors because he refused to pay them. It was his standard operating procedure. If that's how you make decisions, okay, more power to you.

Trump was so desperate for loans in the early 90's, he tried to acquire some money from Las Vegas sources. The conversations did not go well. He then began his relationship with Deutsche Bank -- after what most people would consider a last ditch effort.