Hosts shooting themselves in foot at certain CET property

[Alan Mendelson]

Alan, you keep asking why I don't just play and then talk to the guy after that. The reason is that I have seen some hosts take the attitude that my previous overcomping carries forward to the present. So if I'm overcomped by $2000 (just making up numbers here), and then I only generate $300 in comps with my current play, he could say I am still $1700 in the red, and will get nothing. As I said before, I once had a host try to pull this crap on me about 2 years ago, and it took a lot of arguing for them to back down on it.

So... you haven't played at all in 2014, have no history at this particular casino, admit to already being overcomped, and now you feel that you are entitled to guarantees based on your history? Come on Dan, get real.

And as far as the host not going out on a limb but some other department could... the host realizes his job is on the line and he has orders to follow. Some phone operator doesn't see your history in the computer.

[Dan Druff]

Based on Dan's original post, it appears to me there WAS a conditional agreement:

"No. I'm not going to talk numbers with you," he shot back. "You can book your 3 comp nights with us, we can evaluate your play, and then we can see what we can do about wiping off the $96+tax for the 4th and 5th nights based upon what you play. But we will make no promises or discussions about this until your play is over."

That's not a conditional agreement. He said he would make no promises or discuss anything until he saw my play. How is that conditional? He's telling me I will have no idea what he is or isn't comping me until AFTER I play, which is crap.

Before you say, "Yeah, but he's comping you 3 nights", keep in mind that the Seven Stars program guarantees me 4 free nights, so he's not doing me any favors. In fact, he's violating Seven Stars policy by only giving me 3.

[Dan Druff]

So... you haven't played at all in 2014, have no history at this particular casino, admit to already being overcomped, and now you feel that you are entitled to guarantees based on your history? Come on Dan, get real.

And as far as the host not going out on a limb but some other department could... the host realizes his job is on the line and he has orders to follow. Some phone operator doesn't see your history in the computer.

I wasn't looking for guarantees.

I was looking for a CONDITIONAL guarantee, meaning that he would promise to give me the free 4th and 5th night ONLY IF I ACTUALLY PLAYED WHAT I PROMISED I WOULD.

Why do you think that's unreasonable?

Where is the host's risk in this situation?

[Alan Mendelson]

Where is the host's risk in this situation?

His job maybe?

Look at it this way, Dan. You got your five nights with no need to gamble the way you told the host you would. You shouldn't be complaining. You should be thankful you got your way... again.

[Kerry W.]

And for all of you wondering....The property in question is Lake Tahoe. #freeliftticketsplz.

[Dan Druff]

And for all of you wondering....The property in question is Lake Tahoe. #freeliftticketsplz.

You must listen to my radio show.

Free lift tickets won't help me though, because I injured my ankle last week, and it's not getting better.

[Dan Druff]

LMFAO @ Dan Druff making a dupe account to corroborate his OWN thoughts on the subject. #SOOBVIOUS.

Why did you edit your post which previously said you agreed with synergistic?

I don't have any dupes here. Alan can verify IPs are different.

[Dan Druff]

Oh it looks like Kerry W is a banned user here under a new account.

Remember Dante? He's back.

Ironic that he's accusing ME of using dupes.

[Dan Druff]

His job maybe?

Look at it this way, Dan. You got your five nights with no need to gamble the way you told the host you would. You shouldn't be complaining. You should be thankful you got your way... again.

I got my way only because I knew enough about the system not to accept the answer given to me by the host.

The typical player in my spot (say, someone overcomped but who legitimately wants to start playing actively again) will be turned off by this and probably go somewhere else.

And that's what I mean by shooting themselves in the foot.

How would the guy lose his job?

If I really play the 250k coin-in, he would look good to his bosses for bringing me in.

If I don't play the 250k coin-in, he wouldn't give me those nights and wouldn't be at risk for any trouble.

And if the 250k coin-in is somehow not enough for those two nights, he should tell me up front, rather than mislead me with, "Play first, come back to me when it's done."

I'm just saying this is a lousy system, and is likely driving customers away.

[FABismonte]

The typical player in my spot (say, someone overcomped but who legitimately wants to start playing actively again) will be turned off by this and probably go somewhere else.

And that's what I mean by shooting themselves in the foot.

How would the guy lose his job?

If I really play the 250k coin-in, he would look good to his bosses for bringing me in.

Dan,

I don't see this as a situation of any host shooting himself in the foot. At worst it is simply an inconsistency in the CET system - but we have all seen many occasions of that. In the current case there are two sources of free rooms for you, the CCS system and the host.

You got the five nights as a Seven Stars through CCS. But presumably because you played no action in 2014, the host has been warned that you are radioactive and so is not interested in even negotiating with you. If you are correct that you are so overcomped that you are in a big hole that you need to fill with theorectical losses before you even get back to even, then why are you so confident that the host will even get anything other than written up even if you do put in 250,000 in action? He might not get any credit until CET gets back all the comp value you were given and that might mean much more than the action you are offering on a full play machine.

I am not criticizing you for playing the game with CET, but lets not pretend that the host is not looking out for his own self interest just like you are for your own.

BTW, I was in Lake Tahoe myself a couple of weeks ago and the full pay JOB was still there.

FAB

[Dan Druff]

Dan,

I don't see this as a situation of any host shooting himself in the foot. At worst it is simply an inconsistency in the CET system - but we have all seen many occasions of that. In the current case there are two sources of free rooms for you, the CCS system and the host.

You got the five nights as a Seven Stars through CCS. But presumably because you played no action in 2014, the host has been warned that you are radioactive and so is not interested in even negotiating with you. If you are correct that you are so overcomped that you are in a big hole that you need to fill with theorectical losses before you even get back to even, then why are you so confident that the host will even get anything other than written up even if you do put in 250,000 in action? He might not get any credit until CET gets back all the comp value you were given and that might mean much more than the action you are offering on a full play machine.

I am not criticizing you for playing the game with CET, but lets not pretend that the host is not looking out for his own self interest just like you are for your own.

BTW, I was in Lake Tahoe myself a couple of weeks ago and the full pay JOB was still there.

FAB

Thanks for the info about the full pay JOB. I actually called yesterday and had a long conversation with the slot manager to make sure it was! Otherwise that's a loooooooong drive for nothing (especially since I can't ski right now with my ankle injury).

Regarding the host, I just wish he would be honest with me, if it really is the case that I'm in a huge hole with my comps and 250k of coin-in won't even qualify for a free room at this point. It's pretty sleazy to say "Play, and then we will talk about it" if he knows in advance that I'll get nothing even if I really do play what I'm promising.

I'm not saying that he was doing this. Perhaps he just has a thing about never giving the player any info about what they're "playing for" comp-wise, but in this case it just wasn't handled right. Either make the conditional promise, or level with me and tell me that my planned play isn't going to make it.

This kind of looked to me like one of those things where he wanted the commission from my play, while giving himself the freedom to comp me nothing for it.

I don't think there are any warnings in the system about me, but rather I probably have such a bad overcomp situation that, as you put it, I am considered radioactive for hosts to touch. LOL

[Alan Mendelson]

The typical player in my spot

Dan there is definitely NOT a typical player in your spot. You are unique. If there were another 7 Stars player who wanted to book a 5 night stay at a casino where he hadn't played before he would probably call HIS host at his HOME CASINO to book it and not even bother calling the other property.

[FABismonte]

Dan,

Too bad about your ankle as you could get Seven Stars complimentary lift tickets at Heavenly. If you are not skiing, then I would suggest that you consider soaking your ankle in the indoor pool or Jacuzzi. Then maybe taking a drink in the Harvey's scenic diamond lounge using the "golden door" elevator. Just don't forget to slip a buck to the old lady operating the elevator. Good luck.

FAB

[Dan Druff]

Dan,

Too bad about your ankle as you could get Seven Stars complimentary lift tickets at Heavenly. If you are not skiing, then I would suggest that you consider soaking your ankle in the indoor pool or Jacuzzi. Then maybe taking a drink in the Harvey's scenic diamond lounge using the "golden door" elevator. Just don't forget to slip a buck to the old lady operating the elevator. Good luck.

FAB

At least the skiing is lousy this year. Honestly it's one of the worst ski seasons in Sierra Nevada history, and that's after 2 other bad ones prior to this. Strangely, 2010-2011 was the BEST ski season in Sierra Nevada history. I visited Mammoth in late July 2011, and while the ski resort was closed, there was enough snow to still ski! There was acutally more snow there on July 4 (the last day they were open in 2011) than there is right now in February.

Still, it would have been nice to ski during the day and play VP at night, even with the crap conditions, especially with 4 free lift tickets.

Will definitely go to the Harvey's diamond lounge.

[Dan Druff]

Dan there is definitely NOT a typical player in your spot. You are unique. If there were another 7 Stars player who wanted to book a 5 night stay at a casino where he hadn't played before he would probably call HIS host at his HOME CASINO to book it and not even bother calling the other property.

I'm not as unique as you think.

There are plenty of players who earned Seven Stars earlier in 2014, then stopped playing for whatever reason, perhaps because they didn't see the point of it after getting to Seven Stars.

I might be a bit unique in my obsession with maximizing benefits, but plenty of people not as extreme as I am would be in the same spot here.

Honestly, I've never heard of a host refusing to tell you if a certain amount of play will earn you a comp room. Usually you ask the host, "Hey if I play this much, can you get me a room?", and the answer is either "yes, if you actually play that much" or "no". Not, "I won't tell you. Try it and find out what happens."

[FABismonte]

I'm not as unique as you think.

There are plenty of players who earned Seven Stars earlier in 2014, then stopped playing for whatever reason, perhaps because they didn't see the point of it after getting to Seven Stars.

I have been following a poster named "Sionow" who is Seven Stars but decided not to play anymore (other than free play); he posts regarding "My Farewell Tour" on another message board. I believe you can find it by googling his blog name and post title.


FAB

[synergistic]

Why did you edit your post which previously said you agreed with synergistic?

I don't have any dupes here. Alan can verify IPs are different.

Heh, nope, I'm not Dan - I'm just a chick who thinks the comp game is almost as much fun to play as VP itself. That means a great deal of what Dan shares is valuable to me - and while I don't always think he's got much of a leg to stand on for his own part, I do tend to agree with his stances.

Actually, after my father hits 7* this spring, his play will be significantly lower than mine, and I'll still fully expect CET to put him up in his own room for the next couple of years - without giving him the runaround. I appreciate straightforward business relationships, and my relationship with a casino (and its hosts) definitely counts as a business relationship.


And alan, i think it's quite a stretch to call the offer the host made a legitimate conditional offer - all he seemed to do was promise that he'd see what kind of offer he could make after the play actually occurred. I do think he was well within his rights, I just think it was kind of silly - "You have a sketchy play history, so the only way I will take your commission is if you trust me to make an offer I'm totally unwilling to spell out right now..."

[Alan Mendelson]

Dan, suffice it to say that every host in the TR system can look you up on their computer.

[Dan Druff]

Heh, nope, I'm not Dan - I'm just a chick who thinks the comp game is almost as much fun to play as VP itself. That means a great deal of what Dan shares is valuable to me - and while I don't always think he's got much of a leg to stand on for his own part, I do tend to agree with his stances.

Actually, after my father hits 7* this spring, his play will be significantly lower than mine, and I'll still fully expect CET to put him up in his own room for the next couple of years - without giving him the runaround. I appreciate straightforward business relationships, and my relationship with a casino (and its hosts) definitely counts as a business relationship.


And alan, i think it's quite a stretch to call the offer the host made a legitimate conditional offer - all he seemed to do was promise that he'd see what kind of offer he could make after the play actually occurred. I do think he was well within his rights, I just think it was kind of silly - "You have a sketchy play history, so the only way I will take your commission is if you trust me to make an offer I'm totally unwilling to spell out right now..."

It's funny, I keep assuming that any "unknown" name here is a dude, and then I keep finding I'm wrong. First Chimp, and now you.

I'm glad that you find my posts useful, and I'm even more glad that you usually agree with me!

Your point about the straightforward business relationship is a good one. While I have definitely done my best to maximize my benefits from the Seven Stars program, I have still followed its rules and guidelines. So I don't think it's right that I get penalized for earning it all at once and then staying a bunch of times without playing. They designed it that way, and yet you're supposed to feel guilty or something for using it that way.

Also, another pet peeve I have is WSOP.com. I actually DID play at Caesars Las Vegas and the Rio when I stayed there -- except I played on WSOP.com Nevada at their high limit poker games, and generated a lot of rake for them. They promote the hell out of this thing and keep encouraging you to play it from your room (even the Do Not Disturb sign at the Rio claims you're playing on it), yet you are considered a no-player if you stay and just play on there. Oddly enough, you can even earn Seven Stars by playing exclusively on there, so I don't see why they consider that different than staying and playing VP, slots, or craps.

Anyway if they have a problem with unlimited free stays with the Seven Stars program, independent of further play, then they shouldn't offer it.

[Quad AAAA's]

Dan Druff,

Why do you continue to play at CET? With your promise to play that amount of coin in and asking for a 5 night stay I feel that is very reasonable. CET should have stepped way up to the plate on that one. A promise to play that amount of coin in for a 5 night stay is sounding like a bilateral contract. As long as you honor your part of the agreement they should honor their part.

Why do you continue to work the host for a 5 night stay? If he says no then personally I would just walk away. I'm sure there are a number of other casinos that would like your play and offer you free rooms.

It appears that a number of people in this forum are hung up on the CET 7 Stars program. Again I really feel that CET is not the company that they once were. CET is weak and grumbling. For gawds sake they can't even pay their debt. As far as 7 Stars is concerned today it's not much of a program. CET is stripping the card of it's value.

The bottom line here is you want to play a large number of coin in. They apparently don't value you as a 7 Stars card holder because of your lack of play. Maybe it's time to man up and make a change. Take your business else where. I'm sure other casinos would love to have you. Good luck in whatever you choose to do. Remember your playing for a 7 Stars status. If it's that important to you I hope you win a good amount of your coin in. It would be a shame to lose all that money to a company that doesn't appreciate you as a patron.

Quad AAAA's