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Thread: CET confirms most Seven Stars benefits from 2015 will remain for 2016

  1. #21
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    I ran $500k of coin-in to earn my Seven Stars.

    Ignoring some of the RC promotional bonuses I got at Rincon, I earned $500 worth of RCs.

    Had I been earning them 2.5x slower, I would have earned $200 worth of RCs.

    That's $300 difference (which I know is what you said -- $600 per $1M coin).

    To me that's not insignificant, especially when the expected loss of $500k coin-in at 99.54% JoB is $2300, so $300 is 13% of that.
    I was talking about 7/5 BP and 8/5 BP....not 9/6 JOB.

    For 7/5 BP, your EV would be about -20K per $1M coin in.

    Of course that 0.06% is going to make a bigger difference, or appear to make a bigger difference, when you go from playing shit games (2% HE) to good games (0.5% HE or 0.3% HE).


    Had you played it at Bally's ex-99.99% JOB (90/9/6, or 9/6/90 as some say), you'd be claiming the $300 is MONSTEROUS. 0.0038% of $500K is $19.


    Either way, 0.06% is 0.06% of your coin in. It is not "a lot" nor significant in any way, shape, or form.

  2. #22
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    I was talking about 7/5 BP and 8/5 BP....not 9/6 JOB.

    For 7/5 BP, your EV would be about -20K per $1M coin in.

    Of course that 0.06% is going to make a bigger difference, or appear to make a bigger difference, when you go from playing shit games (2% HE) to good games (0.5% HE or 0.3% HE).


    Had you played it at Bally's ex-99.99% JOB (90/9/6, or 9/6/90 as some say), you'd be claiming the $300 is MONSTEROUS. 0.0038% of $500K is $19.


    Either way, 0.06% is 0.06% of your coin in. It is not "a lot" nor significant in any way, shape, or form.
    Huh???

    We're talking about getting 1% on your coin in or getting 0.4% on your coin in. What game you play isn't at issue here. It's the points/RCs you are getting for the coin-in that's the issue. And any way you look at it, it's a big difference whether it's 0.4% or 1% on a million dollars of coin-in.

  3. #23
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    I was talking about 7/5 BP and 8/5 BP....not 9/6 JOB.

    For 7/5 BP, your EV would be about -20K per $1M coin in.

    Of course that 0.06% is going to make a bigger difference, or appear to make a bigger difference, when you go from playing shit games (2% HE) to good games (0.5% HE or 0.3% HE).


    Had you played it at Bally's ex-99.99% JOB (90/9/6, or 9/6/90 as some say), you'd be claiming the $300 is MONSTEROUS. 0.0038% of $500K is $19.


    Either way, 0.06% is 0.06% of your coin in. It is not "a lot" nor significant in any way, shape, or form.
    Caesars only imposes the $25/tier restriction on the 99%+ games.

    If you want to shoot off on 98.45% 9-5 JoB like a dumbass, they will let you earn $10/tier.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  4. #24
    Yeah, 7* isn't worth the nearly $30,000 expected loss on either 7/5 or 8/5 BP($29850 & $31125 respectively based on coin in figures Alan gave). When all of the benefits are factored in, Caesars isn't giving nowhere near this much back in return. Now I'm not saying no one shouldn't use their card. But this just isn't worth chasing after.

  5. #25
    BTW, I am still holding to the claim that the reduced TIER credits are the bigger deal here.

    If CET eliminated RCs entirely (and didn't replace them with anything comparable), I would still grind the 99%+ VP games to earn Seven Stars.

    If they changed all of the 99%+ games to $25/tier, I probably would give up on Seven Stars.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  6. #26
    Like I said, there are another 3 casinos (that you didn't mention) that have 99%+ with $10/pt.

    The reason why that 0.06% (NOT 0.6%) seems like a big number is because the game Dan played had a low HE (0.46%).


    Alan thinks we're comparing $1 to $0.40....it's actually $0.10 to $0.04!

  7. #27
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    Yeah, 7* isn't worth the nearly $30,000 expected loss on either 7/5 or 8/5 BP($29850 & $31125 respectively based on coin in figures Alan gave). When all of the benefits are factored in, Caesars isn't giving nowhere near this much back in return. Now I'm not saying no one shouldn't use their card. But this just isn't worth chasing after.
    It's not quite this bad. Also keep in mind you earn 7* for TWO years, not one, so there's also that.

    You can also get to 7* via $500k coin-in, thanks to the bonus tier credits.

    But here is the theoretical cost of reaching 7*, ignoring RCs and other comps you will earn along the way:

    7/5 BP: $9927
    9/5 JoB: $7750
    8/5 BP: $4170
    8/5 BP Aces and Faces (best at Rincon): $3725
    9/6 JoB: $2300
    25/16/10/4/4/3/2/1 Deuces Wild (NSUD): $1360

    The above assumes 1 tier per $10, and playing optimally for tier credits where you stop at exactly 2500 or 5000 base tier credits each session.

    Sadly, the Vegas games have gotten so bad that, if only griding 7* there, you would still be best off playing the 99.54% JoB at $25/tier, because that would be a $5750 theoretical loss, whereas playing 9-5 JoB at $10/tier would be $7750.

    The best 3 options to get to 7* cheaply these days are Aces and Faces at Rincon (99.26%), 9-6 Jacks or Better at Tahoe (99.54%), and Not So Ugly Duck Deuces at New Orleans (99.73%).

    Everything else is over $5000 theoretical (with a lot of variance), so it wouldn't be worth it.

    I probably milk about $7000 of value out of my 7* per year, not counting the additional little perks which don't have much monetary value but are nice (line skipping, better service, minor room upgrades, etc).

    But if it were to cost $5000 or more to get there, I wouldn't bother, even for 2 years of benefits. This is because some of my value is not as good as cash -- such as comp meals, highly discounted cruise, $1200 airfare to CET destination, etc. I manage to make use of these to where it becomes something actually fun/valuable for me (such as creating road trips around the 7* annual trips), but it's still not as good as cash which is completely flexible.
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  8. #28
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    Like I said, there are another 3 casinos (that you didn't mention) that have 99%+ with $10/pt.

    The reason why that 0.06% (NOT 0.6%) seems like a big number is because the game Dan played had a low HE (0.46%).


    Alan thinks we're comparing $1 to $0.40....it's actually $0.10 to $0.04!
    What are the 3 casinos? Or is this a secret?
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  9. #29
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    Like I said, there are another 3 casinos (that you didn't mention) that have 99%+ with $10/pt.
    Really? Must be an AP trade secret.


    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    Alan thinks we're comparing $1 to $0.40....it's actually $0.10 to $0.04!
    Gee, the last time I looked the ratio of one dollar to 40-cents is the same as 10-cents to 4-cents.

  10. #30
    Well, I did just find Harrah's Joliet has:

    9/7/5 Double Bonus (99.11% return)
    9/6 Double Double Bonus (98.98% return)

    and those are $10/tier

    Is this one of the three?
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  11. #31
    There's always Windsor's 99.95 Pick Em which is $80 coin in ($57.60 US as of today) per tier credit.

  12. #32
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    There's always Windsor's 99.95 Pick Em which is $80 coin in ($57.60 US as of today) per tier credit.
    Yep, that's a great way to make 7 Stars.

  13. #33
    Originally Posted by jbjb View Post
    There's always Windsor's 99.95 Pick Em which is $80 coin in ($57.60 US as of today) per tier credit.
    Useless to run up tiers.

    This is on a $1/$2 play dollar machine. That means at most you can run $10 (Canadian) at a time.

    So you would have to run 8 hands just to earn one tier credit.

    In order to get to 2500 tier credits for the day (which is what you need to get optimal bonus tier credits), you would have to play 20,000 hands in one day, which is obscene.

    In fact, for most people it couldn't be done, even if they committed the full 24 hour period to it.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  14. #34
    Oh, looks like Harrahs Cherokee (NC) has $10/tier games.

    NSUD, 9/6 JoB...

    Too bad it's not closer.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  15. #35
    Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Useless to run up tiers.

    This is on a $1/$2 play dollar machine. That means at most you can run $10 (Canadian) at a time.

    So you would have to run 8 hands just to earn one tier credit.

    In order to get to 2500 tier credits for the day (which is what you need to get optimal bonus tier credits), you would have to play 20,000 hands in one day, which is obscene.

    In fact, for most people it couldn't be done, even if they committed the full 24 hour period to it.
    Agreed and I wouldn't try it even if I wasn't persona non grata at Caesars properties and or wanted 7*. But remember, pick em is a much faster game than draw poker.

    I know of one non Caesars location that actually had better than normal comps and cash back for its high limit vp than it did for the main floor. This place gutted all the offerings early last year though and have been suffering since.

  16. #36
    I am not a Bob Dancer nut, but I run into information.

    Bob Dancer's go to spots to play video poker are at (1) Harrah's New Orleans and (2) Harrah's Lake Tahoe at $10 coin in per tier credit. Of course he uses the travel benefit from seven stars to get to New Orleans, and if he has to travel anywhere, he writes it off as a tax expense as a writer for the Las Vegas Advisor for as long as he writes an article about it. He even does tax write offs on the Cruise port fees that are not covered by TR Seven STars.

    For Vegas, it used to be 9-5 Jacks or Better in which Dan Druff called a dumbass will play. But Bob Dancer used to play that up until 2014 for a reason, when TR was profitable to him. Now TR is merely an entertainment/leisure benefit to him.

    For those complaining about the $25 coin in per tier credit, the folks in Atlantic City properties have it worse. Theirs is $50 coin in per tier credit, but they have more favorable paytables at low denominations.

    The third place that Dan Druff is curious about is Harrah's Reno, but they gutted their VP, $1 JoB is gone so only quarters. It will take longer to get the PIAD bonuses, let alone DIAD.
    Last edited by alpax; 12-23-2015 at 01:27 AM.

  17. #37
    Dan, my guess is that RS__ was hinting at Vegas casinos with 99% video poker with $10/point.

    $10/point VP anywhere besides Vegas isn't something I would consider because I wouldn't travel out of town to even go to a casino.

  18. #38
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    Dan, my guess is that RS__ was hinting at Vegas casinos with 99% video poker with $10/point.

    $10/point VP anywhere besides Vegas isn't something I would consider because I wouldn't travel out of town to even go to a casino.
    I heard something about a 99%+ Ultimate X machine in Flamingo, but I'm not sure it's still there, or where to find it.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

  19. #39
    I recall about two years ago seeing an 8/5 $1 Bonus game in the Flamingo and I also heard about Planet Hollywood having 8/5 Bonus at $1 at some point. I also recall playing a $1 8/5 Bonus game at the Rio. But I also think this was before Caesars started its $25/point system for full pay games.

  20. #40
    No, I see that they downgraded the 99%+ Ultimate X machine from Flamingo back in March.

    Nothing better than regular 7/5 BP at Flamingo now.
    Check out my poker forum, and weekly internet radio show at http://pokerfraudalert.com

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