Any Experience with M Resort $500 Loss Rebate?

[Biloxi Bill]

Let me comment on this, piece by piece:



Why would anyone want to post on a public forum that they have had a winning year gambling? Let's just say I've had my share of success hitting in two years two $100,000 royals with limited play at the $25 denomination, and hitting the ALL at craps at least a dozen times with $25 in each position. You want me to post my profits and for what reason? No... I've never had a profitable year gambling.




I've quit when ahead and never had a 57K bankroll. I don't think anyone needs a 57K bankroll to quit when ahead.
What's ironic here, redietz, is that you quit when ahead which is the only reason you have a profit at video poker. At least, you told us you had a profit at video poker. And the ONLY way to have a profit is to quit when you're ahead. (Why are you having trouble with this when you do it yourself?)

In addition, neither of you can provide math professionals who agree with either of you regarding importance of win goals.

Win goals are personal. Win goals will not make you win. Win goals only give you an exit point. You will not find a math professional who says otherwise. You raise a non-issue.

In addition, Rob can't provide any casino professional (not just gamblers) or other video poker author who agrees with him regarding his "systems."

I can't either, except it makes sense to limit your losses and to quit when ahead. I do not follow his special plays and frankly I don't even understand his various systems.

And we should listen to either of you why? Because you're both handsome and charming?

Thank you.

This coming from the guy who gives intimate details of all his personal "relationships", marraiges, and divorces, but doesn`t want to disclose if he has a winning year gambling on a gambling board....I must say, that`s priceless

[coach belly]

This coming from the guy who gives intimate details of all his personal "relationships", marraiges, and divorces, but doesn`t want to disclose if he has a winning year gambling on a gambling board....I must say, that`s priceless

Wow...this clown is really that clueless.

Obviously very little life experience, or even awareness...either a teen or a retard.

Alan, please type slower so the Donkey can keep up.

[Biloxi Bill]

This coming from the guy who gives intimate details of all his personal "relationships", marraiges, and divorces, but doesn`t want to disclose if he has a winning year gambling on a gambling board....I must say, that`s priceless

Wow...this clown is really that clueless.

Obviously very little life experience, or even awareness...either a teen or a retard.

Alan, please type slower so the Donkey can keep up.

The donkey will keep it up...right in your wife`s mouth....just where she likes it

[Rob.Singer]

Alan, you don't NEED a gambling bankroll of $57,200 to quit when ahead. However, you do NEED that amount of bankroll to quit when at least $2500 ahead.

Similarly....Biloxi Bill can't figure out how to quit when his ass keeps getting whooped!

[Alan Mendelson]

Alan, you don't NEED a gambling bankroll of $57,200 to quit when ahead. However, you do NEED that amount of bankroll to quit when at least $2500 ahead.

Similarly....Biloxi Bill can't figure out how to quit when his ass keeps getting whooped!

Biloxi Bill can't figure out when to quit, and that's true.

But why does someone have to quit at least $2500 ahead? What's wrong with quitting $200 ahead? Do that five days a week and it's a nice job.

[Rob.Singer]

Nothing wrong with quitting when ahead ANY amount. It sure beats the alternative. My stop point was because I played only one session a week, and there was no way I was ever going to move to a sh**hole like LV.

[AxelWolf]

Question: Who here has EVER profited from a rebate?

Answer: NO ONE has ever profited from a rebate. At best a rebate kept you in the game longer so that you could win a certain amount. If you have already lost the required buy-in to receive a rebate you are now at a bigger losing point. For example, if you use a $500 loss rebate on a video poker game that pays 99.2% you are now in this position:

You are playing $500 (free play rebate) X .992 - $500.

So, what does that do to your AP edge?

WRONG!!! Casinos have had 150% loss rebates.

You dont like how I used an example of somthing diffrent than what you were thinking do you? IIRC you like to do that.

Let's get back to the 100% rebate example. A loss rebate is significant +EV and that's all that matters. If you play enough of them them the correct way you would find it hard not to make money. I would never lose money after playing 3 equal loss rebates.

With 2 people and 2 loss rebates, you can guarantee a profit.
Or one person with 2 diffrent loss rebates could guarantee a profit.

FYI the M claims 14 days to get a notification when your Rebate money is avaliable. From what I have been told by the boothlings and others, it takes over one month after the email to get your all your rebate money now.

[Alan Mendelson]

Axel if there is a 150% loss rebate I would throw myself on my sword and admit I was wrong. Please let us know where this was?

And by definition a rebate of less than 100% on losses is negative. That's the English language. Figure it anyway you want with your math but a loss rebate means you lost while a rebate of less than 100% cannot make you whole. It's just that simple.

[AxelWolf]

Axel if there is a 150% loss rebate I would throw myself on my sword and admit I was wrong. Please let us know where this was?

And by definition a rebate of less than 100% on losses is negative. That's the English language. Figure it anyway you want with your math but a loss rebate means you lost while a rebate of less than 100% cannot make you whole. It's just that simple.

I will not say where it was at because they have done it more than once and may do it agian. I will say it was up to 3k.

[Alan Mendelson]

There are people who know when the Loch Ness Monster will show itself.

[RS__]

Axel if there is a 150% loss rebate I would throw myself on my sword and admit I was wrong. Please let us know where this was?

And by definition a rebate of less than 100% on losses is negative. That's the English language. Figure it anyway you want with your math but a loss rebate means you lost while a rebate of less than 100% cannot make you whole. It's just that simple.

I don't care how the "English language" or Alan translates something. I care about the math. If the English language says something is a loser but the math says it's a winner....guess what -- it's a winner.

[Alan Mendelson]

Let me explain to you what a loss rebate means. Try to understand:

If you are offered a 20% loss rebate you will get back twenty cents on each dollar lost.

That is what a loss rebate is. It is nothing more.

A loss rebate that is less than 100% will never make you whole.

But at this point you "math people" and APs start making what I will politely call "adjustments" to what rebates are. You will start adding the value of rebates to the expected return of games.

No where in the English language is adding value of partial payments part of the definition of loss rebates.

So back to my original statement: loss rebates of less than 100% do not make you a winner. Only winning bets make you a winner. However loss rebates can keep you playing longer so you can hit a winner.

[redietz]

Axel if there is a 150% loss rebate I would throw myself on my sword and admit I was wrong. Please let us know where this was?

And by definition a rebate of less than 100% on losses is negative. That's the English language. Figure it anyway you want with your math but a loss rebate means you lost while a rebate of less than 100% cannot make you whole. It's just that simple.

I don't care how the "English language" or Alan translates something. I care about the math. If the English language says something is a loser but the math says it's a winner....guess what -- it's a winner.

This is about Alan failing to account for the fact that the loss rebate is part of the equation because it is applicable to a session even if it is not applied after the session. Alan is not considering the rebate as existing until it is applied.

At first I was going to argue this wasn't about language, but maybe it is. Alan is using a very narrow (but common) definition of rebate where a rebate is something that occurs only after the fact. The truth is that the math of this properly perceives the rebate as something that is active and alive regardless of whether it is actually used at the conclusion of the session. The common use of the word "rebate" here is confusing. The math is unassailable.

In that sense, what we are calling "rebates" may more properly be considered "insurance." The "insurance" is active and allows one to take risks regardless of outcome.

[Alan Mendelson]

Well said redietz because your machine's meter does not register the rebate on each lost hand.

You guys are treating the rebate as if it was paid to you immediately with each play.

[redietz]

The rebates/insurance makes things positive in the following way. This is a really stupid analogy, but what the hell.

Say you have a crappy car and need to get cross-country from Point A to Point B. You don't really know if your car will make it; it's about a coin flip. You are, however, a member of AAA Premium. The fact you're a member of AAA Premium means you can get a tow if the car breaks down, and they'll rent you a car while it's being repaired.

So you undertake the trip. Now if you do break down, your expenses are covered, except you're going to tip the tow truck driver. The tip will come out of your own pocket.

You undertake the trip, which is not something you would have done if you didn't have AAA. Sometimes you make it. Sometimes you don't, and you have to tip the tow truck guy.

Alan sees things as those times you tip the guy, you're losing money. He doesn't internalize that the times you make the trip without breaking down, AAA was a key reason you were able to successfully make the trip. You would never have left home without AAA in the first place.

[Alan Mendelson]

Your analogy makes no sense to me. But how about this:

Loss rebates give you back a portion of what you lost and with that rebate you have another chance to win.

[Alan Mendelson]

Also... loss rebates do not change the expected return of a game. If you're playing 8/5 Bonus video poker with a $500 rebate, once your own money is lost and you're using the rebate money to resume playing you're still playing 8/5 Bonus video poker with the same expected return.

[FABismonte]

OK gang, let me tell you the actual M Resort Rebate result from last weekend.

I decided to take Rob Singer's guidance who had suggested that I probably could do the M Resort loss rebate as a "new player." So my wife and I drove the 14 miles south of to M Resort and verify whether my lack of any "Marquee Rewards" club card would allow me to use the Rebate, even though both of us were members of Tropicana Casino's former club card (which now happens to be a "sister property.")

We were told at the M Resort club desk ("Marquee Rewards") that I was eligible after taking my Drivers License and consulting the computer. I was given a card and was told that under the Loss Rebate promotion if I play and lose on any machine within a day (up to $500), I would receive an email "within 14 business days" that would give me a notice that would allow me to play half the loss in free play (within a month of notice) and I could get the other half of the free play within a month after that. I was led to believe it would be one email with both date ranges.

So armed with that knowledge, Wife and I decided I would first play on a highly volatile machine to try to hit it big, up to a $500 loss. Then if I lost, we planned to play the free play on the $2 JOB 9/6 VP machines in the high limit room to convert any free play into cash.

So we walked up to the M Resort High Limit Room which was surrounded by low walls in the middle of the casino. I was thinking of playing the "Top Dollar" machines but there were two couples who were playing the two Top Dollar machines at the one dollar denomination (even though there was also $5, $10 and $25 options). So we walked over to the Double Gold machine just to the left of the Top Dollar machines. I put in $200 and invited my wife to sit down. Here is a photo of that machine and its pay table.

[FABismonte]

My wife played two coins at the $5 denomination so it was $10 a pull (or press if you really want to be technical). For 12 presses, nothing was hit and I was starting to think I would have to add more money to the machine. Or perhaps switch machines. On the lucky thirteenth press, I saw the following:

[FABismonte]

My wife commented that it was too bad they were mixed colors of Sevens as all yellow sevens would have meant twice as much winnings. As it was, the fact that it was two doublers on a mixed seven meant we won $800 on that press (assuming you forget that the spin cost $10). I then pressed the cashout button and came away with a $660 profit. Here is a photo.