New low for Caesars: Linq high limit room features a $100/credit 6-5 Jacks or Better game

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Is the gaming rule you quoted not available online?

I thought you said it takes 40 minutes to do an evaluation and suggested it was only down in real time. Now you seem to agree they can go back near instantly.

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What gambling rule? what are you talking about?

as far as 40 minutes, man you missed the jist of my post. The "time it takes for a complete evaluation is measured in rounds not actual time. A certain amount of information is needed and the information becomes available by seeing a certain number of rounds. Maybe that takes 30 minutes, maybe 45, maybe an hour. But how ever slow the game is isn't really hurting the player, because the collection process is equally slowed. It just feels like you are sitting there vulnerable. trust me, I KNOW.

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I pointed out how they could go back into video and it shouldn't take 30 or 45 minutes once they noticed you. You said they couldn't because of a gaming ruling involving real time cheating. It required 20-30 rounds - you didn't remember. I'm wondering about this gaming rule. Now you started talking about how they do look into the tapes during evaluations? I don't know. I'm probably confused but I did ask for more info about that gaming rule at minumum.

Kewl, your tendency to adopt some aspect of others into yourself is but another kewl kewlism.

The next post you talk about coach belly. I don't give a shit about coach belly. Coach Belly does that with everyone. I don't even do it to you. You want a serious discussion then you don't. Talk about "decide what it is you want to be on this forum". (What a thing for you to think up to begin with! ha)

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Is the gaming rule you quoted not available online?

I thought you said it takes 40 minutes to do an evaluation and suggested it was only down in real time. Now you seem to agree they can go back near instantly.

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What gambling rule? what are you talking about?

as far as 40 minutes, man you missed the jist of my post. The "time it takes for a complete evaluation is measured in rounds not actual time. A certain amount of information is needed and the information becomes available by seeing a certain number of rounds. Maybe that takes 30 minutes, maybe 45, maybe an hour. But how ever slow the game is isn't really hurting the player, because the collection process is equally slowed. It just feels like you are sitting there vulnerable. trust me, I KNOW.

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I pointed out how they could go back into video and it shouldn't take 30 or 45 minutes once they noticed you. You said they couldn't because of a gaming ruling involving real time cheating. It required 20-30 rounds - you didn't remember. I'm wondering about this gaming rule. Now you started talking about how they do look into the tapes during evaluations? I don't know. I'm probably confused but I did ask for more info about that gaming rule at minumum.

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Ok, I gottch ya. the Mindplay ruling isn't a "rule" so much as a ruling by gaming that they couldn't do this or that (certain things). It was before my time, but I don't believe the lawsuit was ever settled because there were no damages won. I think both sides probably agree to accept this NGC ruling. If you are seeking information about it, I told you one place I knew there was some good information (BJ21) because the gentleman Al Rogers, that ran that site for Stanford Wong, was involved in the case. Now I am not a member at BJ21 since it was sold to the same online casino group that now owns and runs Shacklefords sites, so I don't know if that write up is still there or not. It was in a section that was about casinos cheating and doing things they are not supposed to be allowed to do.

Another place you might look would be Nevada gaming commission website. You would really have to do some sifting there, but probably somewhere is that ruling.

Other places on the internet? I don't know. Google it and various versions of the wording and see what you find.



Now as for the part that you said they could go back and look at some of the rounds played which could cut down the evaluation time process, I think you were right. Shouldn't be legal, but they probably do that. But, to complete the evaluation they are still going to need to see a number of rounds at the higher wager (max Bet) and then see the player drop back at the shuffle and that all takes time. But I think you are right, looking back, which they probably shouldn't be able to do, would shave some time.

There ar many things casinos do that they shouldn't be able to do by law or ruling. ANY sort of preferential (early shuffle) should be illegal, because shuffling away the positive rounds changes the odds of the game which is illegal and against gaming regulations. Yet casinos do this all the time.

Card counters play the game within the game, because we have to. But we are at a severe disadvantage because the casinos don't always play by the rules or laws. All we can do is try to keep ourselves as educated and informed so we know what is going on and when it is something so blatant, scream and make noise, that is likely to have little effect.

Back to the ASM discussion, which I know you get overly excited about, but don't, I am talking about a little different area of discussion. I happen to think the whole concept of the ASM is illegal and against the law, even if they aren't cheating, because those machine have the capability to do shuffles that are not random and that is against commission rules and the law. The shuffle has to be random. And it isn't just me that thinks that, several gambling law attorneys, including Bob N have come to that conclusion.

And probably not just the ASM, but probably the CSM (continuous shuffle machines) as well violate the random statue. I am not quite as familiar with their interworking, only results of a CSM, so I can't say for absolute sure it violates the random rules and laws, but I strongly suspect it does.

What I am trying to tell you is that catching card counters is no longer someone, pit person or surveillance seeing a playing jump his wager from say $50 to $300 like it used to be and backing that player off or 86ing them at least at the bigger and mid size casinos. What the rinky dink casinos do, is anybody's guess.

All sorts of players vary wagers, players losing and chasing loses, player parlaying wins. And the Asian, just wildly vary wagers with no rhyme or reason. Casinos don't want to just 86 everyone raising bets like they used to. There is a process. It involves seeing a ceratin number of rounds and betting patterns using software, including what occurs at the shuffle (retreat to smaller bet).

The most important part isn't how and where an evaluation starts. It isn't whether pits calls upstairs or upstairs initiates it as happens at some casino. The important part is when it starts and how much time you have. Like I said you can sit there and play for an hour and KNOW that no evaluation has started because the count hasn't moved and you haven't varied your wager.

But once you vary you wager, and not just up one level from say $100 to $200, but once you vary p to max bet, you should assume an evaluation might be under way. Probably isn't, but if you assume it is, you know exactly how much time you have. You finish that shoe, exit at the shuffle and there is very little chance you can't exit before any heat or issues.

And then they completely forget about you week after week after week.

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

And then they completely forget about you week after week after week.

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I think I have answered and discussed this type of thing many, many times. But you people just don't want to hear and accept what you don't want to hear and accept.

I will tell ya what. I will answer again but I am going to move your question and my answer to the KJ thread so as not to continue to have this thread divert from Druffs original topic. Druff did post comments about 6:5 blackjack that lead to us veering away, but still this thread was originally about something else he wanted to discuss, so I don't want to continue to push away from that.

The spread would not be 1 to 8 if you spend much at the 200 level. I'm just curious about all of it. Of course I doubt you for all the reasons stated but that shouldn't be an issue. I assume the math works out I'm just asking about it in a respectful manner.

I guess you get up any time you hit your max bet of 800 or 1k .. it does seem like it could work. A lot of walking around and your true hourly isn't anywhere near $200.

I'm happy to believe you do actually are a card counter in LV. The more I cam get the math to work out the easier it is.

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

The spread would not be 1 to 8 if you spend much at the 200 level. I'm just curious about all of it. Of course I doubt you for all the reasons stated but that shouldn't be an issue. I assume the math works out I'm just asking about it in a respectful manner.

I guess you get up any time you hit your max bet of 800 or 1k .. it does seem like it could work. A lot of walking around and your true hourly isn't anywhere near $200.

I'm happy to believe you do actually are a card counter in LV. The more I cam get the math to work out the easier it is.

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I took this discussion from this thread so as not to continue to hijack Dan Druff's thread. You brought it right back. Why would you do that. You have that little respect for Dan Druff?

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

The spread would not be 1 to 8 if you spend much at the 200 level. I'm just curious about all of it. Of course I doubt you for all the reasons stated but that shouldn't be an issue. I assume the math works out I'm just asking about it in a respectful manner.

I guess you get up any time you hit your max bet of 800 or 1k .. it does seem like it could work. A lot of walking around and your true hourly isn't anywhere near $200.

I'm happy to believe you do actually are a card counter in LV. The more I cam get the math to work out the easier it is.

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I took this discussion from this thread so as not to continue to hijack Dan Druff's thread. You brought it right back. Why would you do that. You have that little respect for Dan Druff?

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Lol you're such not a person to take seriously.

I'll respond to whatever thread I want. This place is dead. As if Dan cares. I can't tell if you really think that might be effective somehow ..

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

I once had a friend who didn't care about paytables. He was chasing the big hits. No matter how much I tried to convince him to stop playing shit paytables, he wouldn't, even if better ones at the same game were in the same casino at the same denominations.

Anyway I was with him in Vegas and he sat down at a $5 8-5 machine where it should have been 9-6.

I said to him, "Give me your wallet, I'll hold it while you play."

He asked why.

I replied, "Every time you hit a flush or full house, I'm going to steal $25 from you."

He answered, "What?! Why would you do that?"

I said, "Because that's what the casino is doing to you every time you play 8-5 and hit a flush or full house. They're reaching into your wallet and stealing $25 from you. So since you apparently don't care about that, I'm going to also steal $25 from you."

This actually made an impact. He said, "That's funny. Okay, you got me. I actually agree with you now. Yeah, this is really stupid for me to play machines like this. I guess you had to put it that way for me to see it."


I encourage doing the same to anyone you know who plays shitty paytables with disregard.

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Stealing $25 from someone and them willingly choosing to possibly lose $25 isn't the same equivalent however. :/