Tax Rate Question for Big Winners

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Originally Posted by Bob21

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Originally Posted by AndrewG

Mr Bob21 this story is Hollywood material. Did you read the Wired article? This is so much more. This five years of beating IGT and multiple casinos and avoiding detection unlike Kane and Nestor. This is selling book and movie rights for millions and millions more than the $2.8-million.

And this isn't an MIT team story -- this is one SUPER GOD player who destroyed Vegas.

Mr Singer should be running to agents in Beverly Hills instead of taking a road trip to the Dakotas.

Who is the loser here?

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Yes, I did read the Wire article very extensively. I struggled with Rob’s story, mostly because it lined up to perfectly with the article. What do I mean by that? Rob said he discovered the bug almost the year IGT mistakenly put it in the machine through a software “upgrade”. This was all in the article.

Rob said he had been looking for a “bug or something like a bug”. Well the 20 years before this upgrade, this game had no “bugs” or things that looked like bugs in it. After a while wouldn’t you think someone would quit looking for a bug. What’s the odds of looking for “bugs” the year one gets put in a machine? And discovered by a real life “bug” hunter.

After I read the wired story, it sounded like about the only way someone would find this bug is if you’re half drunk just randomly pushing buttons, after you win. Kind of like what Kane and Nester did. Even the IGT tech guy who was very experienced and watched the video of how these two happened on the bug, couldn’t reproduce it, until he brought the game back to the shop.

Also, this bug could easily be exploited without having to win hand jackpots, so I thought $2.8 MM wasn’t very much in a six year period. I mean these machines were everywhere. A smart person should have been able to extract at least that amount in a year.

Now I get you shouldn’t pull a Kane and Nester and tell everybody in three state surrounding yours about it, and then bring your family, and six of their closest friends with you to a casino and try to take a half million in a day. That probably isn’t going to work. Lol

Anyway, it was a very interesting story. And if Rob did it or not, it really doesn’t impact me, but it does make for an interesting forum.

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The machines came out in 2002. I found it in 2004. There goes that theory.

Everybody claims they'd have won a bunch more than I did. Easy to say looking back when you know everything about the whole situation. Try it real time and under the lights, and it's a very different story. Do it dozens of times in the same casino...many times on the same machine, guaranteed some nosey person will catch on. You'd be in jail if it were you playing that way.

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Originally Posted by dannyj

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Originally Posted by AndrewG

As soon as Mr slingshot shows up asking about a third book we know there will never be proof. It's over. Mr Singer I would say you won because your diversions, personal attacks, and allegations worked. But in reality you lost everything: you're done.

Really. You're done.

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Why do you say that Alan? What does slingshot asking about a book have to do with getting your proof?

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Apologies. Should have sent a pm. Weird.

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Originally Posted by AndrewG

As soon as Mr slingshot shows up asking about a third book we know there will never be proof. It's over. Mr Singer I would say you won because your diversions, personal attacks, and allegations worked. But in reality you lost everything: you're done.

Really. You're done.

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And you're your own worst enemy. (GOD, I love throwing that back in your face!) Look at the fool you've made of yourself on the forum you started.

Sling, I waited on the 3rd from 2005 until the double up issue was completely closed which is pretty much now. I started it 6 months ago but only wrote 1-1/2 chapters so far. It'll get finished in 2021.

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Originally Posted by coach belly

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

a claim of this magnitude requires a little something more than just a persons say so.

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The consensus here is that your claims are of a magnitude that requires the same level of proof as Singers.

When will you be providing something more than your say so?

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Rob's supporters and enablers like Mickeycrimm and coach belly

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You've claimed to have viewed and have access to embarrassing information about Rob Singer.

I have suggested that you post the info, as your claims about Singer requires more proof than your say so.

How does my request that you post embarrassing info about Singer in any way make me his enabler or supporter?

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This has nothing to do with me, coach belly. It has nothing to do with anyone else or any other claim. So stop your deflecting and enabling, This is about one singular thing, Rob Singer's double up claim, one of the most extraordinary claims of the gambling/AP community. Rob has avoided showing any king of supporting evidence claiming he threw it all away. We now have a piece of supporting evidence that he can show that he should still have available.

Rob should welcome this opportunity to put this to rest and finally get the credit he would deserve if this claim is true. But that is not what is happening. Instead, we have more games by Rob and deflections by people that support Rob like you and mickey. Coach belly, you always claim you are trying to get to the bottom of things, seek the truth. Why then are you not seeking the truth about Rob's claim, instead, playing one of the henchmen, deflecting and protecting.

This isn't about feuds, or alliances or who likes who and who doesn't. This is a chance to finally get to the bottom of this. Rob and now you guys supporting him are doing everything you can to not get to the bottom. You just want to keep this 20-year trolling that Rob has done going. I guess that is our answer. Rob is just going to continue his 20-year troll of the gambling community.

Rob, you have removed any doubt that any one might have had. Declined a chance to end this. Proven it is all just a never-ending troll. So good luck with that. enjoy your games.

You gotta be kidding Axel, your one of the best sock detectors. You had to have seen right through Mr Alan/ Mr Andrew. The only person, I truly believe that didn't see through the ruse was Tasha.

Kew, simply show supporting evidence to back up your claims of welfare and food stamp use and fraud, and I'll be happy to post the bill of sale. I'd like to do it anyway just to watch you come apart at the seams one more time :) but you must walk the walk first. No more of your flimsy excuses of not printing such an important document to you. No blaming everyone but yourself. Be a man.

Come on Kew, Rob is giving you carte blanche to post the dirty deeds, what do you have to lose ?

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Originally Posted by Ozzy

Come on Kew, Rob is giving you carte blanche to post the dirty deeds, what do you have to lose ?

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This has nothing to do with me. Or Alan being Andrew. Or even Rob's silly progression system. Or any other controversial items of claims on this forum. This is about 1 single thing...Rob's double up bug claim.

Here are the facts:

Rob has this extraordinary claim that has been hanging out there for a year now. Almost no one finds him credible on this forum or throughout the community based on comments at WoV. On this forum, the poll showed 1 single person out of 22 that voted finds Rob credible. Now Mickey didn't vote, for whatever reason and he has publicly stated he believes Rob. So let's make that 2 from this forum out of 23.

I mean IF this claim was true, that would have to be pretty frustrating for Rob, wouldn't it? If only there was a way to prove to all those doubters. Unfortunately, Rob claims to have destroyed any and all paper documentation like tax records and casino paperwork that would prove his claim and elevate him to rock star status. So again....if only there was some other way to prove. :rolleyes:

So Andrew/Alan comes up with a way. Doesn't technically prove the claim, but it is supporting evidence that would go a long way to proving it and giving Rob new credibility. You would think Rob would be jumping at this opportunity. I mean IF the claim was true, you would think Rob would be jumping for joy at this opportunity. Of course, if the claim is just part of Rob's 20-year troll, he is not going to be too thrilled with this opportunity. AND his supporters like mickeycrimm and coach belly should be encouraging Rob to prove his claim and put this all behind us. I mean again, that is IF they really believed and this wasn't just a troll game.:rolleyes:

So what happens? Very predictable, Rob and his supporters/enabler haven't jumped at this opportunity to clear this up and make Rob a hero. Instead we get, more deflections, more name calling. More delay and stalling and trying to tie this to things and conditions that have absolutely nothing to do with THIS claim. Essentially more trolling. Because that is what this is.... nothing but a 20-year troll by Rob and now those that have joined in helping him.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Kew, simply show supporting evidence to back up your claims of welfare and food stamp use and fraud, and I'll be happy to post the bill of sale. I'd like to do it anyway just to watch you come apart at the seams one more time :) but you must walk the walk first. No more of your flimsy excuses of not printing such an important document to you. No blaming everyone but yourself. Be a man.

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You know he can't because that was a judgement type of thing. Just like the landlord you stiffed on the rent. Which you acknowledged in the past. Both of those items have been removed. The old bankruptcy still remains though. Guess it's hard to dispute that info.

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Originally Posted by AndrewG

Mr Bob21 this story is Hollywood material. Did you read the Wired article? This is so much more. This five years of beating IGT and multiple casinos and avoiding detection unlike Kane and Nestor. This is selling book and movie rights for millions and millions more than the $2.8-million.

And this isn't an MIT team story -- this is one SUPER GOD player who destroyed Vegas.

Mr Singer should be running to agents in Beverly Hills instead of taking a road trip to the Dakotas.

Who is the loser here?

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Andrew, Alan Mendelson wants you to join WoV. Will you sign up? Yes or no? It's an easy answer.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by AndrewG

Mr Bob21 this story is Hollywood material. Did you read the Wired article? This is so much more. This five years of beating IGT and multiple casinos and avoiding detection unlike Kane and Nestor. This is selling book and movie rights for millions and millions more than the $2.8-million.

And this isn't an MIT team story -- this is one SUPER GOD player who destroyed Vegas.

Mr Singer should be running to agents in Beverly Hills instead of taking a road trip to the Dakotas.

Who is the loser here?

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Andrew, Alan Mendelson wants you to join WoV. Will you sign up? Yes or no? It's an easy answer.

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I wonder if Shank and BBB would turn a blind eye having both of them post over there LMFAO!!

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Kew, simply show supporting evidence to back up your claims of welfare and food stamp use and fraud, and I'll be happy to post the bill of sale. I'd like to do it anyway just to watch you come apart at the seams one more time :) but you must walk the walk first. No more of your flimsy excuses of not printing such an important document to you. No blaming everyone but yourself. Be a man.

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You know he can't because that was a judgement type of thing. Just like the landlord you stiffed on the rent. Which you acknowledged in the past. Both of those items have been removed. The old bankruptcy still remains though. Guess it's hard to dispute that info.

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Same old stuff max. A 24-yr. old bk? How about the credit card I didn't pay in 1978....

Wise up---and get rid of your hatred because I kind of ignored your pm when you begged me to tell you before anyone else if and when I found a current DU machine.

I do believe you're in the same boat as Alan.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Wise up---and get rid of your hatred because I kind of ignored your pm when you begged me to tell you before anyone else if and when I found a current DU machine.

I do believe you're in the same boat as Alan.

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MaxPen is NOT in the same boat as Alan. That is just ridiculous. This is the kind of statement that just makes you look foolish Rob.

So, you are mentioning that MaxPen PMed you asking you to tell him if you found another machine because you think that makes him look bad. That is your intent right? In my mind, that doesn't make him look bad. That makes him look like an AP. On the very unlikely chance that you came into this play either before or after the story became public, he is asking for info if you were willing to share. That is an AP move. A free roll. AND, I am guessing you probably received similar inquiries from other members, both AP's and non-AP's. Am I right?

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Kew, simply show supporting evidence to back up your claims of welfare and food stamp use and fraud, and I'll be happy to post the bill of sale. I'd like to do it anyway just to watch you come apart at the seams one more time :) but you must walk the walk first. No more of your flimsy excuses of not printing such an important document to you. No blaming everyone but yourself. Be a man.

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You know he can't because that was a judgement type of thing. Just like the landlord you stiffed on the rent. Which you acknowledged in the past. Both of those items have been removed. The old bankruptcy still remains though. Guess it's hard to dispute that info.

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Same old stuff max. A 24-yr. old bk? How about the credit card I didn't pay in 1978....

Wise up---and get rid of your hatred because I kind of ignored your pm when you begged me to tell you before anyone else if and when I found a current DU machine.

I do believe you're in the same boat as Alan.

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Now you're just being an idiot. You definitely have me confused with someone else.
I PM'ed you because I had an inclination to believe some of what you were saying might have been true. Due to the fact Axel and Mickey both were sort of vouching for you in the beginning.
I asked if you definitively played the glitch. I asked if you knew either of the two who got caught. I told you I believed there were other machines out there.
At no time did I beg you for anything. I determined shortly after our brief discussion that you were full of shit.
Your story has more holes than swiss cheese.
You're pretty much an all hat no cattle guy. You so badly want to portray yourself as having it all, it's more pathetic than Alan coming back here as AndrewG.
We won't get into your family's problems. Which would clearly show that a lot of your claims are false. Anyone who wants to know the truth can find it. I did.
I have to laugh at the people not willing to do the research that still might give your weasel ass a pass. Because if someone is not certain you're full of shit, it is the +EV thing to do.
So you should WISE UP idiot.
If your claim was true I'd be the first to congratulate you. You had me believing for about a week. Then I WISED UP.

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

I have to laugh at the people not willing to do the research that still might give your weasel ass a pass.

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It is not that they are unwilling to do the research. It is that they don't want to see what they will find. :rolleyes:


Anyway, I have a couple hypothetical questions. Anyone can answer. And remember these are hypothetical, not speaking of anyone in particular.

1.) I am wondering why someone that had a big score at a casino, whether it was a one time thing like hitting one of those progressive jackpots, or something more spread out, like say....winning 2.8 million over 5 years due to a machine malfunction, would allow an adult child struggling financially to file a bankruptcy and particularly in the very same year of this huge windfall?

2.) Here's another one. Hypothetical of course. Again, a guy, no one in particular claims to have come into this kind of windfall mentioned above. Being the great guy that he is, he buys a house for lets say a daughter. What a great guy! I guess we should all have a father like that. But here's what I am wondering: Why would that house that this hypothetical person claims to have paid cash for, be in the son-in-laws name, with the son-in-law owing more on the house than the current market value?

Hypothetically such people don't seem to be in the financial position they are claiming. Hypothetically of course. :confused:


Now one more thing: can we get back to the 1.5 million dollar RV, Rob? I mean besides that the company you yourself listed that you bought it from, seemingly being out of business at the time you claim to have bought it, I am not seeing 1.5 million dollar RV for sale on any site I look at. NOT EVEN CLOSE to that amount.

Can you help me out with the RV one Rob and since the first two are hypotheticals, anyone? anyone? Bueller? anyone? :D

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by MaxPen

I have to laugh at the people not willing to do the research that still might give your weasel ass a pass.

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It is not that they are unwilling to do the research. It is that they don't want to see what they will find. :rolleyes:


Anyway, I have a couple hypothetical questions. Anyone can answer. And remember these are hypothetical, not speaking of anyone in particular.

1.) I am wondering why someone that had a big score at a casino, whether it was a one time thing like hitting one of those progressive jackpots, or something more spread out, like say....winning 2.8 million over 5 years due to a machine malfunction, would allow an adult child struggling financially to file a bankruptcy and particularly in the very same year of this huge windfall?

2.) Here's another one. Hypothetical of course. Again, a guy, no one in particular claims to have come into this kind of windfall mentioned above. Being the great guy that he is, he buys a house for lets say a daughter. What a great guy! I guess we should all have a father like that. But here's what I am wondering: Why would that house that this hypothetical person claims to have paid cash for, be in the son-in-laws name, with the son-in-law owing more on the house than the current market value?

Hypothetically such people don't seem to be in the financial position they are claiming. Hypothetically of course. :confused:


Now one more thing: can we get back to the 1.5 million dollar RV, Rob? I mean besides that the company you yourself listed that you bought it from, seemingly being out of business at the time you claim to have bought it, I am not seeing 1.5 million dollar RV for sale on any site I look at. NOT EVEN CLOSE to that amount.

Can you help me out with the RV one Rob and since the first two are hypotheticals, anyone? anyone? Bueller? anyone? :D

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Maybe you can get in touch with the Rolling Stones and ask them who sells $1.5million RV's.

The Inspector Clouseau's in this thread are cracking me up. I'm LMAO!!!

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Can you help me out with the RV one Rob and since the first two are hypotheticals, anyone?

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You must not have looked too hard.

I googled high-end RVs and this came up on the top of the page

https://www.insider.com/luxury-rvs-m...at-1-million-1

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

This has nothing to do with me, coach belly.This is about one singular thing, Rob Singer's double up claim

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I disagree.

I think this has to do with you demanding proof of another member's winning claims, without being willing to provide proof of your own winning claims.

You have no standing to ask Singer to prove his claims, if you refuse to prove your own.

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Originally Posted by coach belly

I disagree.

I think this has to do with you demanding proof of another member's winning claims, without being willing to provide proof of your own winning claims.

You have no standing to ask Singer to prove his claims, if you refuse to prove your own.

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Well you are just wrong coach belly. It has to do with the magnitude and feasibility of these claims. My claims that I make an upper 5 figure living from an advantage play method that is backed up by math and not even that unusual. There are many players doing what I do for a living, some at higher levels for significantly more money. Well 'many" might not be the correct word, although it seems like it because every time I turn on GWAE, there is some new card counter on.

Rob's claim on the other hand is so extraordinary that no one else is claiming it. There were two people that we read about who knew of this play. No one else has suggested they made this play. And the money 2.8 million dollars. That is a lot of money for any break the casino type story. So these claims are on completely different levels, not even in the same stratosphere. One is so outrageous it requires some kind of verification or supporting evidence.

I like the analogy that I previously used. One of these claims, mine is equivalent to someone saying they ran around the block. It is routine and requires no verification. The other claim is equivalent to some one saying they built a rocket and flew to the moon. Um, yeah, that one requires a little more than just that person's word.

What you are attempting to do is what you always do on these forums and it is dishonest coach belly. If you were the guy wanting to get to the truth as you always claim, YOU would be asking these questions that some of us are asking as well as having done some investigating and wondering why Rob's actual financial situation doesn't match his long running story. But no you are not about the truth are you? You are a one-sided troll.