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You're right. But I am a recreational gambler. So a win goal allows me to go home saying to myself "I had a great trip and won some money." You gamble every day. You have to look at the world differently. You need constant income from play. You can't quit. Even for the day you can't quitQuote:
Originally Posted by jbjb
I may be overstating it, but it seems the theme of these comments is "Recreational=good/professional=bad."Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
It's funny, because that's exactly how the casinos look at it, too.
A professional can quit any time. That, my friends, is part of being a professional. If the odds change, the professional moves on. If he/she doesn't, then he/she isn't a professional.
I think part of the problem some posters have is that they associate professionalism with addiction. It's actually the recreational players who are more addicted.
Where does this come from?Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Even professionals can use win goals and loss limits. I have win goals and loss limits in my business when I pitch new clients.
Redietz we all have win goals and loss limits in everything we do when the outcome is not predetermined. Think about that.
The ubiquity of a behavior has nothing to do with whether it's effective. Ninety-some percent of Americans pray, and they pray regarding a multitude of things. Try praying as a video poker strategy sometime.
Win goals and loss limits work for me. Your results might differ. Good luck.
What do you do when you get $5 short of your win goal? Keep going until you get it or until you hit the loss limit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
I keep track of all my sessions. So far this year I'm am winning around 60% which is just pure luck, As for -EV machines, I am forced to play my freeplay on them and so far this year my return is 113% (around 1600 hands). And no, I don't use any special plays.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
It just shows that short term results don't tell you a thing about how you will do over the long haul. That is why I wrote the simulation to see what happens after millions of hands. As I told you before it makes no difference when you cash out. However, by using the strategy I outlined you can generate dozens of sessions in just one visit and see for yourself how you strategy works out. Pick some small win/loss goals and stick to them each and every little session. Since you are the one promoting this nonsense, at least you might try and generate something to support your claims.
And I wouldn't call what I do "professional." I just do it for income and I enjoy what I do.
I want to also add that table games wins are a whole set of different circumstances from heat level, casino tolerances and reporting requirements.
Good question. Win goals are not set in stone. I have a win goal of about $3,000 for a daily visit. "About" has a lot of flexibility. My loss limit is $1500. My loss limits are firm.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjb
If I am up a thousand dollars and start running into a lot of losers, I can quit. I learned my lesson. There were many times I was up $500 or $800 and put it all back. But when you think of the wins of $500 or $800 as "my money" then it becomes harder to put it back.
My one and only dealt royal came on 25¢ 9/6 JoB STP Spin Poker (99.82%) with a total cash back and comps of 0.4% (yes Rob will probably call this "theory", but so what :-)). Anyway. I always started with $500. On this session I ran it to nearly 8000 credits ($2000) and said if I get there I'll take a break. Now this wasn't a regular goal nor would it continue to have been. Well, I got about 200 credits short when the $h!t started hitting the fan. As I was going down, I kept saying I'd quit at 7000 credits, 6000, etc. Well after getting below 5000, I absolutely was going to stop at 4000 for a double up. I got to about 4300 or so when the five highest spades were dealt for a nice $9000 win. Unfortunately they removed the game later that year then down graded most other games after that. Overall I took about $30,000 off of it before it was removed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
jbjb I can tell you stories too about not quitting when I was ahead only to win even more. For example, what happened to me just a month ago: quad queens at $25/coin VP for $3125. That alone should have made me leave. But I moved down to $5 VP and got a straight flush for $1250. Then I lost a couple of thousand only to switch to $25 VP again for quad deuces for $5,000. Yeah, I really should have left then, but no, I played a couple more hands and hit my $100,000 royal. Sometimes you just get lucky, don't you?
Sometimes you just want to take the win and enjoy yourself.
I probably have lost more over my life giving back wins, then what I've won continuing to play.
Sure, it's nice to talk about the big wins and the big wins that followed other big wins. But the reality is for we mere mortals the big wins don't come that often.
You super APs who beat the casinos and earn a living in the casinos are head and shoulders above the rest of us. Carry on.
I wouldn't call me a "super AP" (that's James Grosjean territory) just as I wouldn't call you the worst of degenerate gamblers. Certainly you make a great living with your business and can easily afford $5+ vp and you're smart enough to know your limits. I have a non AP friend that will blow his last dollar he takes every time he goes to casinos. That's the lowest of the low there and you're nowhere close to that. Everyone who gambles, whether recreational, AP or whatever should just use common sense.
How do you measure common sense? Do you measure common sense by the credits on the meter or the cash in your pocket, or do you measure common sense by what the odds (theory) are?
This is where Rob Singer is spot on. Theory and odds do not pay the bills. It's not about making the best bet, it's about winning.
Then why not just Martingale the 30 to 1 odds of boxcars showing up? And, are you winning lifetime? Dunno about you but I am and will never look back.
You measure common sense by the games you select to play and strategy you use. Over time the short term wins and losses will average out. Why you deny simple mathematics, which every PhD in mathematician would tell you is correct, is beyond me.
Maximum bet on 12 at the casinos I play at is $2,000 on the 12.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjb
I think I told the story here about the player at my table at Caesars who had $100 on the 12 for 30 rolls in a row. Not one 12. He gave up. Dice came to me and my first two come-out rolls were 12.
Now, with that said... WTF does a martingale on the 12 have to do with having a win goal and a loss limit? This is not about stupid betting, is it?
I have a hard time trying to understand why putting money in your pocket and leaving the casino with a profit isn't a good strategy?Quote:
Originally Posted by arcimede$
I have a hard time trying to understand why having a loss limit for the days you don't win isn't a good strategy?
What math says it is wrong to leave with a profit?
What math says it is wrong to limit your losses?
No one has ever said there is anything wrong with quitting for whatever reason a person chooses. It is only wrong when you try and claim it changes your results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Anyone who is not ahead lifetime while gambling has no profit from gambling.
Change results? Do you have a crystal ball? I deal with reality. The results are what is in my pocket and what is on the credit meter. You live in a world of what MIGHT happen IF you keep playing. I deal in a real world of what there is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcimede$
I got a better one for you: no one ever got out of this world alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjb
So, you are claiming that all the mathematicians in the world are wrong and you are much smarter. LOL. Do you wear a big red nose when you type this nonsense?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Look, my return this year is 101.4% on the OEJ game. That is a full percent above expectation. Do I claim my results are due to some magical ability to cash out at the right moment? Nope, I realize that it is all just good fortune.
You stop your nonsense. I am dealing with the present: here, now, what's in my pocket. I can't go to Bank of America and ask them to lend me $10,000 to play video poker with a 100.2% return plus comps and maybe cashback. And I can't tell my dentist that instead of paying him $125 for a cleaning, he should let me play a hand of $25 video poker with a 100.17% return.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcimede$
When you guys keep getting the answers you don't like, your posts only show more confusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
First, the AP crowd needs to do a better job quantifying their criticisms. I'vs seen Alan say multiple times that it doesn't matter if he wins over his lifetime using stop win & stop loss goals. He's only interested in what his results are when he goes to a casino the next time, and to do that he has to wait until the visit is over--not theorize it to death beforehand.
I don't believe anyone who plays in any manner on a single denomination or on several denoms. with no structured strategy, will ever be an overall winner (barring extraordinary good luck).
Red, your correlation attempt with keno & bingo has no merit. It's not an answerable question, at least by me, because I've never really played either and I've never analyzed keno. Bingo seems like a silly comparison. I imagine BJ played martingale style would be a good candidate for quitting with a win the moment you get ahead--and maybe even overall if the huge loss never comes. The big advantage of course that vp boasts is large winners. But again, it greatly depends on the table limit as well as the player's bankroll.
I see the disconnect here.
Alan (and Rob, for that matter), can you please define what you mean as "quitting"?
Because QUITTING means stopping for good.
So should a -EV gambler quit the game for good if he's lucky enough to be ahead? YES, at least if he wants to hold onto the money.
But your definition of "quitting" is different. It means "quitting for a fairly short period of time".
So what does "quit" mean?
If you stop playing to go to the bathroom for 5 minutes, does that count as quitting?
If you walk away from a machine and come back 30 minutes later, does that count as quitting?
If you go to dinner for 2 hours and come back to the same machine, does that count as quitting?
What if you quit at 11:55pm and come back at 12:05am? It's a different day. Does that count as quitting?
Or does quitting mean that you don't play for 24 hours? If so, what if you only stop for 23 hours? Is that still quitting?
Maybe you think quitting means that you don't play any more for the "trip". But what if you drive home and then drive back there the next day? Is that still quitting? What if you live close to the casino? How does one define quitting in that case?
See, there is no way to define QUITTING if you are coming back to the machine. You didn't quit. You just paused.
And while you would laugh at anyone who says, "I'm ahead $2000 so I'm quitting while ahead, and not playing again for 15 minutes", those same people are questioning why you think quitting for a period longer than 15 minutes is any different.
That was seriously eloquent, Dan. That sums things up brilliantly.
Dan this "quitting time" has been discussed before.
Rob has a system that involves involves what could be multiple sessions in a day.
I use the IRS system: each day is recorded.
For me quitting when ahead has nothing to do with quitting forever. It means stopping play for a time because I have reached a particular goal or got a big winner or decided to lock up a profit.
Recall what happened a month ago: I hit a big royal and locked up a profit with a check. I didn't quit but kept playing.
Jason hit his royal and locked up a big percentage in a check and he kept playing too.
We all agree no one is quitting forever.
But consider another visit -- say a visit I made to Rincon when I had $325 of free play and I hit a $1000 pay on Royal Aces Bonus with AAAA -- and I took that cash and went home -- that was "quitting when ahead."
Quitting when ahead is more of a code for "I'm taking this money now and not putting it back."
When you play again isn't an issue. You might plan to play again after dinner or the next day but you suffer a heart attack that night having sex. Or you might play again a month later but before that the Zombies take over.
You don't know if you will play again. All you know is that you have a nice profit and you're taking it.
If you have a problem with the idea of taking a profit so you can have a better dinner, or smile more before sex, or face the Zombies with cash to stop bites on your ass, I can't argue.
So I'm still not understanding.
What defines "quitting"?
How long in between sessions?
Please read again what I wrote above. And ask Rob Singer about his different method.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
Whether or not all of your cash outs will add up to a long term profit may or may not work. That's not as important to me as sticking to my loss limits which is defined by my entertainment budget. It's losing what I just won that I want to avoid.
Dan nailed this. Rob doesn't have win goals whereupon he quits. He has win goals whereupon he PAUSES. This simple proper use of language clears up many things.
Alan, earlier you were saying something about quitting when ahead is a winning system.
Now you're saying something about your overall results may or may not be positive.
I'm now confused. Can you clear up the misconception here ?
I'm guilty of not quitting when ahead. There were days when I was ahead thousands of dollars, kept playing, and lost it all. I don't have records but I think had I left after those rare, big wins and then kept to a strict loss limit my casino balance sheet would be much different.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS__
A couple of important points:
1. My daily loss limit of $1500 only started about a year ago.
2. Only in the last year did I dramatically cut back my craps play. I love craps but as I've written here several times I'm a big lifetime losers at craps despite having a profit on the Firebet and the small, tall and all bets.
Starting with my one night trip this week I am going to keep accurate and honest logs of my play and when I had a profit and my net for each day.
I like what Rob said about letting the small daily profits add up. I think they can at video poker and with my new way of playing craps I stand a chance at craps too. My last three trips to Bellagio were all modesty profitable at craps.
I am going to admit something to all of you which is why I honestly think Rob's strategy of quitting when ahead could really work.
three years ago I hit the progressive royals at Rincon twice: in July for just over $36,000 and then again in October for just under $36,000. The night I hit the second progressive I thought i could do nothing wrong since I hit it very early. So I moved up to $10 video poker... and proceeded to lose $15,000 in short order.
That $15,000 would have made the difference between a winning or losing year that year.
What if you left the casino with your nice payout....came back next week and lost $15K? That's totally different!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
I'll respond on this. People who win big on a visit are much more likely to go up in denomination immediately afterwards than they would be on future casino visits. Casinos want and expect winning players to do that, obviously. And most oblige.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS__
So the problem is, what exactly? That he went up in denomination? Lost a lot? Or continued playing? I think it's a combination of going up in denom AND losing a lot...because surely, he would continue to play [on future visits], would he not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Dan/Red, quitting is a subjective term. When I use the word "quit" it simply refers to the fact that my session, bound by a structured strategy, is over. Period. If I win my goal or more I'm happy, and if I lose my goal I am not. For me, if it's a trip win goal then the day is done for good. If I have a profit it goes into my family's life and not to grow my gaming bankroll. The profit is used for our enjoyment and that's it. Reaping the benefits of a short-term success.
If I go to a casino to play five sessions then I quit playing upon completion of each session. If you want to call it a "pause" that's OK, but to me this "pause" means I may or may not gamble with the profit from my previous session on my next session. I prefer "quit" because to me that means whatever happened previously is in the books and will not change, ever.
I know you like to keep saying that it is all one continuous adventure, but that's just one more thing misguided players do that the casinos want and expect their players to do. When a player uses a strategy like mine that sees sessions end on a highly volatile game & at $5/$10/$25 or even $100 denominational play, and when the very next session (whether beginning in one minute, a day, a week, or ten years later) starts over again at the strategy's lowest level and least volatile game, that right there is the definition of the word "quit".
Not if I had kept to a loss limit on subsequent visits.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS__
Trip win/loss goals are psychological only.
If you are a recreational player, and need to book winning sessions in order to feel good about your VP hobby, then by all means set win goals.
If you are a recreational player (or alternately, have bankroll issues) and don't want to feel terrible after losing an unusually high amount, then by all means set a stop-loss quit point.
But keep in mind that both give you no benefit except for psychological peace of mind. They do not help you win, unless you are quitting FOR GOOD (or for a very long period of time).
If you are a regular player and will return fairly soon to play again, then stopping is pretty much meaningless.
My earlier post (demonstrating how "quitting" doesn't mean anything if you play regularly) illustrates this point.
What about the argument of, "If you quit while significantly ahead, then that money is in your pocket, and the theoretical odds mean nothing"?
Again, that only means something if you quit for good. If you come back a few days later and play again, then the money isn't staying in your pocket, because it is being risked again -- the same way it would have been risked if you kept playing while ahead.
This is also why I play until my tier points goal (2500 or 5000 base points for the day), and do not quit no matter how well or how poorly I'm doing. I'm going to have to run those points anyway in order to get my Seven Stars status, so quitting early simply costs me more time in getting there. I do not believe that continuing to play on the same day is any worse than continuing to play a week later. Either way, I'm running $500,000 coin-in for the year.
Keyword: "IF".Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
So after hitting your $36K royal, why didn't you decide to start a new session with a $1500 loss limit (or whatever your future loss-limits would have been)?
If I had, I would have lost only $1,500 and not 15-THOUSAND. But this happened two years before I started a $1500 loss limit.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS__
You can start poking holes wherever you want to poke holes, and I am sure you and Arc and redietz and Dan will do that. But had I followed the ideas of a strict loss limit (I didn't) and even if I used the convoluted idea of starting another session immediately with a $1,500 loss limit, I would not have lost so much money.
And this wasn't the only time I was thousands of dollars ahead -- kept playing -- and lost it all. And I don't think I'm alone.
I think the most important point is simply this: it's very rare to get more than one big jackpot in a day -- so when you get it, keep it. We're getting lucky hitting just one a day... are we really going to hit two in a day? Yeah, I know it's going to happen -- it happened to me. But there comes a time when it's better to be satisfied with a bird in the hand instead of a flock in the bush.
Alan, with a win goal of three thousand and a stop loss of fifteen hundred strictly adhered to I predict you will lose your shirt in short order.
Absolutely ridiculous. Here's why:Quote:
Originally Posted by quahaug
1. A loss limit is an amount I can afford to lose.
2. A loss limit is an amount I can afford to lose.
3. A loss limit is an amount I can afford to lose.
Would you like reason #4 also?
I have on idea (well, kinda two ideas) as to why.....but I'm curious, Alan. If you have a $1500 loss limit....why are you taking out a marker for $5K?
You're right. You would have lost less money. (I've been saying this all along, stop win/loss goals = lose less money.) But if you lost $1500, then started another session and lost another $1500...then another....and now you're down $15K. What does the loss limit have to do with any of it? Better yet, you lose $1500, quit for the day/week/whatever. Come back next time and lose another $1500. Then again and again. Either way, it's $15K you lost...whether it be one session of $15K or 10 sessions of $1500.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
I have a credit line well in excess of $5,000. I take out markers in $1,000 increments at the craps tables. The exception was the weekend a month ago when I decided (after hitting two $20,000 royals on two previous trips) that I would try the $25/coin machine for $2,000.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS__
Since I was in high limit slots, I just asked for $5,000. (You can always pay it back immediately.) I put two $1,000 tickets in and started playing.
I go to Vegas to play craps, not video poker. Until I quit playing at Rincon my video poker play was at Rincon. And I got lucky at Caesars. Both of those $20,000 royals were hit with only a few hundred dollars in the machines.
There's an alternative to your claim. In fact, you did NOT quit while ahead after your win in July. You came back and continued to play and hit another jackpot. Had you really quit you would have only won the first $36,000.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
However, in your warped mind you blame not quitting after the 2nd jackpot was a problem while you ignore not quitting after the first jackpot. You do realize you are bending the facts to try and support your silly claims? Some people might even call you delusional.
I don't play multiple sessions in a day. $1500 is my daily limit. I go to Vegas for two days, or three days.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS__
As I mentioned before, I used to go to Vegas just to play craps -- and I was playing video poker at Rincon. When I played VP at Caesars it was limited to only $1 and not for long. When I stopped going to Rincon I played more VP at Caesars and got lucky hitting two $20K royals on two back-to-back trips.
So, you didn't quit while you were ahead and you hit another royal to increase the amount you are ahead. This appears to disprove your claims, not support them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
So Alan's going to have a $1500 loss limit......mhmmmm, I wonder how long that's going to last (not the $1500, but how long before it turns into a $5K or $10K loss limit). Especially since he's most likely going to hit up the $25 machines on his next visit. Hell, he might even "take a shot with $10K" on the $100 denoms. Wouldn't be surprising. Only way to win big is to bet big!
What I'm saying is with a win goal of twice your stop loss your winning sessions will be very few and very far between resulting in total net loses far exceeding anything you have experienced in the past. I'm sure arci can come up with a % win rate I'm pretty sure it'll be less than 90-95 percent.
Yes, I mentioned this before. It does happen. And twice in my life I hit two royals on the same trip and within about 12 hours of each other: It was about ten years ago that I hit two $5 progressives at Caesars, and about a year ago I hit a $2 royal ($8,000) and quit playing, but the next day I found out I had $500 of free play and on the third or fourth hand at a $1 machine I hit another royal $4,000. Yes, lucky things can happen. But I also remember how I lost $15,000 at Rincon and many other times when I had big profits and gave it all back... and I mean ALL back.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcimede$
Ya know, you can poke holes at this idea of taking profits home all you want. I think you should do what works for you. I think sticking to win goals and loss limits will work just fine for me.
By the way, I should comment more about what quahaug wrote: while loss limits are always strict (or else it's not a loss LIMIT), win goals do not mean you have to keep playing until you reach the "win goal." You can stop playing when you are down 1/10 of your loss limit and you can stop playing when you are at 10% of your win goal. A win goal is the point where you say "it probably can't get better than this, so I'm going." So, if I have $1500 to play and manage to double my money to $3,000 I think that's a pretty good time to high tail it out of the casino. How often do you get to double your money in a short time doing something that's fun?
And I have to say it again: craps players bolt from the table all the time after they have a nice run. But video poker players can't?? That amazes me.
Wow, you sound like Rob Singer. Are you Rob Singer?Quote:
Originally Posted by RS__
I don't think it'd be that high (90-95% loss rate), but I don't know. Well, the main factors (only) are the denom played and the game type (JOB, BP, DDB, TDP, as well as single line, multi line (how many?), UX, SP, STP/DSTP, etc.). My guess, your win-rate would be maximized on the $25-50 denom. Well, $100 denom would probably have a higher win-rate, but you'd also get very little action in [no fun].Quote:
Originally Posted by quahaug
Is your win goal $3,000 or $1,500?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
You'll have to explain this, please. Win rates don't change with denomination. 8/5 Bonus poker has the same win rates at 25-cents as it does at $100. I think you're supposed to "win" 45% of the hands played.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS__
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
I'm talking about the probability of winning X amount before losing Y.
Well, it would only take a couple of blank hands on $100 video poker to get wiped out. What does your probability theory say about that?
I haven't done the math. But you're right, you could lose in just 3 hands.
The very definition of "variance."Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Not talking about the same trip. If you ever play another hand of VP you did NOT quit, you only experienced a longer delay between hands. You won in July and then again in October. Had you really quit in July you never would have won money in October. You need to stop confusing the length of time between hands with actually quitting. They are two different things. Once you accept that reality then you may be able to better understand that having a longer delay between hands is a meaningless factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
This is old news. Keep up with the discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcimede$
Well, if we all agree that the length between sessions is a pause that leaves actual results unaffected, then we can move on to something else.
In some ways, walking away from the majority of sessions ahead plays into casinos' hands. People feel good after they have won. That kind of positive affect spawns more visits and more sessions. The emotional effects casinos want are for people to budget a per-trip loss, then have a small win have a greater positive emotional significance than a larger loss has a negative significance. In other words, they are shooting for a "feel-good" of five on a 10-point scale for a win of $250 and a "feel bad" of five for a loss of $500. That's what they want and how they train you.
Not to turn this into an English class, but one can "quit" doing something for 1 week or 5 minutes or any period of time. Quit may imply permanency but permanency is not required. So you can "quit" playing VP until the next time you play.
Now that adds absolutely nothing of any value to the discussion which is appropriate at this time.
But regnis you nailed it. As I said before: when you quit with a profit it means you get up and leave. Yeah it's okay if you play again. Leaving with a profit today lets you live again to play another day.
Redietz you make things too serious and your psychological spin is too much. Can't you accept that some people feel better about walking away with some extra money? Every time you win or lose it doesn't have to be a psychological turning point.
red, let's ask the next person here who "quits" working if they ever plan on working again.
It doesn't matter if it's temporary or permanent in vp. I went to the Palms and profitted $3130. I've already spent most of it. The next time I go to a casino will be with a fresh wad of cash that I didn't have before because it's new income. What's done is done, and I can never lose those winnings even if I lose in the future.
Tying similar events together is like Alan tying his marriages together.
Now that's funny.;);)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Ah brilliant! "I can never lose those winnings even if I lose in the future". No wonder you won playing VP for 10-15+ years! Just file bankruptcy and suddenly you keep all your wins but all your losses disappear, leaving you with only profits! Rob Singer everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Another genius post by the Rob Singer wannabe!
What you really don't have a handle on is reading comprehension. No one I know filed bankruptcy after 10-15 years of winning consistently. But I know plenty of AP's who have, only they never won anything.
The point is, slugs like you who work and make very little money in the casinos, need to tie all your finances together because you have nothing but expenses and bills looking at you from the future, while you also have a nasty gambling habit to confront.
You need to re-assess your going nowhere life before it's too late. Which means you need to wise up :)
This couldn't be further from the truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
# of bankruptcies filed:
RS__: 0
Rob Singer: At least 1
It's funny, you tried AP and failed. So now you're on a hunt to disprove AP and prove your shenanigans works. You seem bitter that AP failed you. Maybe one day you'll learn.
# of digits in RS's 401k: 7
#of digits in RS__'s 401k: 0 :)
I failed as an AP because it doesn't work, and those who aren't too ego-heavy, stubborn or in denial learn more from me about AP foolishness every day. You still have a chance to get out of your mythical world of theoretical perception and make something of your life. Merely using my initials won't get you my degrees and success. Of course, you might think being a craps dealer is a huge success with a giant future. There's the first issue you need help with.
Rob, who appointed you arbiter of what defines "success?" See, this is your weird, self-referential, narcissistic stuff that goes too far afield. Somehow you are a "success," while someone who is a notch or two below you on an income scale (without a bankruptcy, mind you) is not a "success." And you're going to tell them how they went wrong and what their values should be. Do you see how absurd this is, and how it has no place on a gambling forum?
If 401Ks determined who knew the most about gambling, then clearly (in this country) we should all be listening to Bill Gates, not Rob Singer.
What are Gates' special plays?
quitQuote:
Originally Posted by regnis
verb
: to leave (a job, school, career, etc.)
: to stop doing (an action or activity)
: to stop working
Nothing in the definition of quit implies returning to do the activity later.
Alan is in denial. He wants to believe that win/loss goals actually matter. Hence, he denies reality and his words give him a away every time.
Red is exactly right in his statement. People who leave with money are far more likely to return to a casino.
If anyone believes Singer has a 7 digit 401K while being unemployed and living in a small apartment for decades, they are about as gullible as it gets. Add to that they were evicted from that small apartment and now live in a trailer. His lies are so obvious even cave men are rolling on their sides.
Arc how can you possibly argue against loss limits? Are you saying it's okay ro keep running to the ATM when losing on a +EV game? Are you saying it's okay to keep playing after a big win so that you risk losing it all back?
Leaving with a profit is meaningless over time. Had you stayed you could have just as easily increased your bankroll which would let you play again many more days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Once again, no one is saying that quitting and leaving a casino a a bad thing, especially when playing negative games. However, the timing is no more likely to improve your bankroll than it is to hurt your bankroll.
[QUOTE=arcimede$;33133]quit
verb
: to leave (a job, school, career, etc.)
: to stop doing (an action or activity)
: to stop working
Nothing in the definition of quit implies returning to do the activity later.
Stick to math arc---nothing in the definition implies permanency either. Trust a lawyer on this---this is how you lose cases. The judge needs facts, not vagueness. But also it appears you googled the definition and if so, read further into the explanations and examples.
Alan--tell me where I can find a +EV "dame". Mine have all been -EVQuote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
Not saying either one. I'm simply saying that the timing of when you leave has no effect on your long term results.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson
You should know that I don't play -EV games which means I could hardly be for playing before a win, after a win or at any time on one of them.