Bob Dietz' Coming Appeararance On PokerFraudAlert Radio

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Originally Posted by redietz

"Who monitors the monitor?" is a decades-old question.

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To me the decades old question should be 'if a player can pick winners, why isn't he picking winner and betting instead of marketing his picks or service'?:confused:

And this applies to other forms of gambling. Those that can win at blackjack do it. We don't make a living writing books about it. Those that can win at machines, do it.

Anyone writing books or selling information (picks) rather than betting and winning themselves, 1) probably isn't a winning player and 2) is no longer operating in the arena of gambling. They are marketing.

ya know Red, weeks ago, I asked a question that you did not answer. What kind of money you have made from sports betting, of which I included contest winnings, but excluded marketing or selling of a service or picks. You didn't answer. I think we now know why.


Guy says to his friend, hey I am a professional gambler. Friend says that is great. How much did you make last year gambling? Guy replies I lost money, but I wrote a book or sold my picks that made more money than I lost. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Guy says to his friend, hey I am a professional gambler. Friend says that is great. How much did you make last year gambling? Guy replies I lost money, but I wrote a book or sold my picks that made more money than I lost. :rolleyes:

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Jesus KJ, did you graduate from the Tasha school of posting with this?;)

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

ya know Red, weeks ago, I asked a question that you did not answer. What kind of money you have made from sports betting, of which I included contest winnings, but excluded marketing or selling of a service or picks. You didn't answer. I think we now know why.


Guy says to his friend, hey I am a professional gambler. Friend says that is great. How much did you make last year gambling? Guy replies I lost money, but I wrote a book or sold my picks that made more money than I lost. :rolleyes:

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Why in God's name would I answer questions from an anonymous internet brat who the forum owner has labeled as a liar? LOL. What is the point?

You don't seem to get the gist, KewlJ(s). Engaging with you is a detriment to my own credibility. Anyone who engages you is damaging his or her own credibility. Why would anyone take seriously whatever you have to say? I can see it now, "Oh, oh, I convinced the KewlJ(s) I know what I'm doing. What an honor!"

Get real. The forum owner labeled you a serial liar. There's no coming back from that. Your posting here is a massive waste of time, for you and everyone else. It would be different if it was just Singer or MDawg blasting you. But when myself and Axelwolf have issues with you, when the forum owner whose whole schtick is honesty/legitimacy in gambling labels you a liar, there is zero point in engaging you. It's a complete waste of time. As they say in show business, "Go break an arm!" LOL.

Easter just passed. Everybody's burned out on people coming back from the dead, you know, like you. I'm not going to write one more word regarding you. There's no point in trying to bash someone with zero credibility.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by redietz

"Who monitors the monitor?" is a decades-old question.

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To me the decades old question should be 'if a player can pick winners, why isn't he picking winner and betting instead of marketing his picks or service'?:confused:

And this applies to other forms of gambling. Those that can win at blackjack do it. We don't make a living writing books about it. Those that can win at machines, do it.

Anyone writing books or selling information (picks) rather than betting and winning themselves, 1) probably isn't a winning player and 2) is no longer operating in the arena of gambling. They are marketing.

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I kind of disagree with this. Why does anyone successful write a book? Movie stars, sports stars, politicians all are making huge money and still want to make more. Who doesn’t? The “Masterclass” scam is a perfect example of this.

I’m not arguing it’s an industry filled with scammers but writing a book or selling pics doesn’t make you a scammer in itself. Look at how many poker pros wrote books during the boom, it’s extra income.

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Originally Posted by The Boz

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by redietz

"Who monitors the monitor?" is a decades-old question.

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To me the decades old question should be 'if a player can pick winners, why isn't he picking winner and betting instead of marketing his picks or service'?:confused:

And this applies to other forms of gambling. Those that can win at blackjack do it. We don't make a living writing books about it. Those that can win at machines, do it.

Anyone writing books or selling information (picks) rather than betting and winning themselves, 1) probably isn't a winning player and 2) is no longer operating in the arena of gambling. They are marketing.

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I kind of disagree with this. Why does anyone successful write a book? Movie stars, sports stars, politicians all are making huge money and still want to make more. Who doesn’t? The “Masterclass” scam is a perfect example of this.

I’m not arguing it’s an industry filled with scammers but writing a book or selling pics doesn’t make you a scammer in itself. Look at how many poker pros wrote books during the boom, it’s extra income.

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This KewlJ(s) poster is either an idiot or being disingenuous. By his metric, there should be no investment counselors or financial advisors because, geez, why don't they all keep their advice to themselves and all make a fortune? There should, by the KewlJ(s) logic, be no investment counselors or financial advisors.

The KewlJ(s) just want people to pay attention to them by blathering on and on and on. Since the KewlJ(s) are such stand-up guys, their next project will be to get on a couple dozen investment forums and explain why the financial managers are all ripping people off. No sense limiting such brilliance to one forum.

One would think that when a forum owner calls somebody a liar, that liar would take the hint and vacate the forum.

Ok, first of all Dan Druff stated that I haven't been honest about some things. Mickeycrimm told us that no real advantage player is honest about everything. We can't be. That is why most don't post too much on forums and share what they do. Those of us that do, have to hide and yes even lie about some things. BUT it isn't our actual gambling experiences that we sometimes are not honest about. It is the non-gambling details, and that is done intentionally to throw people off that may be out to identify and harm us and our careers.

Dan Druff is a professional poker player. That is a little different from a professional AP or blackjack player. I am not aware of casinos out to identify poker players (they already know) because poker players are not taking from the casinos. they are taking from other players. So I don't know how much Dan Druff understands the dynamic of just what a blackjack player or other AP playing for a living goes through in that regard.

And yes, I know Dan Druff is an AP on some level. I don't know if he considers himself making a living from that. Earlier this year, I think in January, Druff told the story of being backed off (No more blackjack) at a casino he hadn't played in I think he said 10 years. While, he didn't give all the details of that, that is exactly the kind of thing real professional APs encounter and why we are less than honest about some details on forums. Druff thinks I take it to the extreme, more than I need to I guess. Anyway Druff did NOT say I have lied about what I do, although he did question it...which is fine. I don't want people to know everything. I share what I want to share.


Anyway, this isn't about me. It is about you and your claims, redietz. But I do want to distinguish what a professional gambler, or professional player, now-a-days called AP really is. Being an professional gambler, AP involves risk. We put our money where our mouth is on a daily basis. And if we don't win, in a relatively short period of time we don't eat. We don't pay rent. If we can't win long-term, in a relatively short period of time, we better have a spouse that can support us (ala Rob Singer) or a rich daddy like Mdawg.

What you are talking about doesn't involve that. There is no risk. You are a marketer. You don't know what it feels like to lose for days on end, weeks on end, months on end. No matter how well and properly bankrolled you are, it takes a special mental constitution to handle that and come out the other side.

This is what a real professional gambler, professional player, now called advantage player is. NOT what you do or did for 40 years. But congrats to you on a successful marketing career.

And by the way, you will notice the posers, frauds, people like dawg and Singer, never talk about losing. Everything is winning, winning, winning with these people. That is one of the ways you can almost immediately spot them. They are telling and selling a fantasy (even if they aren't actually selling anything).

Some of you guys give ZenKing a hard time, because he comes here and vents. That is one of the reasons I KNOW he is real and what he claims is basically real.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

The bottom line is that you tell a lot of lies on forums. If there's info you wish to suppress in order to keep your identity a secret, simply don't post it. Fabricating stories/details makes no sense, unless you just enjoy lying on the internet, which I think you do.

It's not like you're changing names or other details which are irrelevant. For example, if you had an issue at a casino on September 3, 2024, and you claimed it was on September 1, 2024, that would be a harmless lie. However, if you added details to the incident which didn't really occur, then you're just destroying the story and turning it into a tall tale. It's amazing that you can't see the difference.

On these forums, usually there's fire where there's smoke. You have lied so many times about so many things (and not just on here) that you need to just own up to it and admit that you've had a lot of problems telling the truth on AP forums.

The biggest problem is that you get especially arrogant and condescending toward anyone who doubts your stories. You don't just lie. You get angry and nasty with anyone who questions you. That's why a lot of people have an issue with you. If it were just a matter of lying itself, it would be less of a big deal.

I'll also say that it seems very important to you that people believe you.

You seem to descend into a much darker place when you battle with people on these forums.

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Originally Posted by axelwolf

There have been some things that you said that make me take great pause and I just find them hard to believe. If I am to be honest, I think you highly fudge on some of your stories, and I don't know why. It's beyond leaving things out or adding things to protect yourself.

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Originally Posted by smurgerburger

At some point you will realize you're dealing with a compulsive liar.

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Again, this thread is NOT about me MDAWG. This is a thread about Red and his claims. You have ample threads to troll and attack me, who you are obsessed with, without hijacking this thread.

You just can't stand that there is a thread about a topic (sports betting) that you know nothing about and can't even pretend to like you do blackjack and baccarat.

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

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Originally Posted by redietz

Jesus, Axelwolf, this is why I'll limit myself to once a week. But because I'm into sports betting education, here we go:

This is Street and Smith, about the most famous, kind-of-old-school college football pre-season magazine. It published forever. If I remember correctly, I think I read Street and Smith because it tried to give kicker/punter summaries for most of the college football teams in a clear fashion when many other magazines kind of blew off returning kickers unless they were all-conference or had some kind of notoriety. Pre-internet, I religiously read Street and Smith and GamePlan and another one whose name eludes me. I still read them post-internet but cross-referenced them with other sources.

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Let's go one step at a time.

While you might think me to be asking if that was the correct magazine, or associated with it was dumb/odd/strange/crazy... It's really not. I think it would be hard to find many people who have ever heard of those magazines, but that can be a different debate(even a side bet). Let us take that out of the equation for now.

I googled "Tipsters or Gypsters published by Mike McCusker", and this is what came up in the top 5 or so....

WINNING STYLE | —~

Internet Archive
https://archive.org › download › street-smith-pro-f...
PDF
Our winning record monitored and verified by Mike McCusker of Las Vegas. To order. McCusker's Tipsters or Gypsters, send $17 to P.O. Box 19477, Las Vegas, ...

That link took me to the link I posted up here, and that's why I asked the question in the first place. I think most reasonable people without inside direct knowledge of those publications would be wondering the same thing.

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So one of the advertisers in Street and Smith mentioned "Tipsters or Gypsters?" as a way to verify their record. That makes sense.

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Well, I don't know when they started verifying/monitoring, but that magazine I link to is touting this complete BULLSHIT.

Since 1974 when Harold Peterson, Staff Writer for Sports Illustrated, monitored
Danny's sensational 89% versus the spread
(184 winners of 205 games, plus 28 of 28 upset
specials

Who is monitoring the people monitoring the monitors and so on?

It's all a big monitoring circle jerk.

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Originally Posted by redietz

Why in God's name would I answer questions from an anonymous internet brat who the forum owner has labeled as a liar? LOL. What is the point? You don't seem to get the gist, KewlJ(s). Engaging with you is a detriment to my own credibility. Anyone who engages you is damaging his or her own credibility.

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If that is really how you feel then why do you continue to "engage" with KJ?

Just ignore him...but only IF maintaining "credibility" is your true.goal.

Seems to me you enjoy the jousting and will happily engage with any "contender:"...not that there's anything really wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by The Boz

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by redietz

"Who monitors the monitor?" is a decades-old question.

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To me the decades old question should be 'if a player can pick winners, why isn't he picking winner and betting instead of marketing his picks or service'?:confused:

And this applies to other forms of gambling. Those that can win at blackjack do it. We don't make a living writing books about it. Those that can win at machines, do it.

Anyone writing books or selling information (picks) rather than betting and winning themselves, 1) probably isn't a winning player and 2) is no longer operating in the arena of gambling. They are marketing.

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I kind of disagree with this. Why does anyone successful write a book? Movie stars, sports stars, politicians all are making huge money and still want to make more. Who doesn’t? The “Masterclass” scam is a perfect example of this.

or selling pics doesn’t make you a scammer in itself.

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It makes them a pussy who doesn't belive their picks are good enough to beat the books, or they are not savvey enough to make any significant money betting sports themselves.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Again, this thread is NOT about me MDAWG. This is a thread about Red and his claims. You have ample threads to troll and attack me, who you are obsessed with, without hijacking this thread.

You just can't stand that there is a thread about a topic (sports betting) that you know nothing about and can't even pretend to like you do blackjack and baccarat.

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It actually IS about you kew. And mdawg just did another masterful job sorting out all your "I'm a professional gambler" bullshit.

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

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Originally Posted by The Boz

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

To me the decades old question should be 'if a player can pick winners, why isn't he picking winner and betting instead of marketing his picks or service'?:confused:

And this applies to other forms of gambling. Those that can win at blackjack do it. We don't make a living writing books about it. Those that can win at machines, do it.

Anyone writing books or selling information (picks) rather than betting and winning themselves, 1) probably isn't a winning player and 2) is no longer operating in the arena of gambling. They are marketing.

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I kind of disagree with this. Why does anyone successful write a book? Movie stars, sports stars, politicians all are making huge money and still want to make more. Who doesn’t? The “Masterclass” scam is a perfect example of this.

or selling pics doesn’t make you a scammer in itself.

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It makes them a pussy who doesn't belive their picks are good enough to beat the books, or they are not savvey enough to make any significant money betting sports themselves.

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In many, but not all cases, I agree. But I still have no problem with those supplementing their income, or lack of it, from selling picks. I still blame the customers that fall for nonsensical 60%+ winners claims, dreaming of incoming riches. It’s like the Christopher Mitchell nonsense, is he to blame or is it the idiots who believe his nonsense, or both?

One of the best handicappers based on results on X is JJ Gruden. But he’s making additional money from his Podcast. As are others with YouTube videos and such. The hustles evolved but they are always about the money above and beyond the bets themselves.

Why a sports handicapper would market his picks instead of just betting them himself is a valid question.

There is an old axiom in gambling that if one is good enough to make a living as a professional gambler then that person would do very well in the business world. Richard Munchkin recently made a statement about this situation. He said:

"If I can make money gambling why would I want to go into the business world?"

A sports handicapper marketing services has moved into the business world. Why?

I'm with Munchkin on this one. If I could pick 57% winners I'm going to kelly bet until filthy rich. To hell with creating extra work by starting a business. I'm going to spend my valuable time searching for the best bets and getting the action down.

And now for something lighter I found Rob’s theme song from the 60’s.:D

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fUUzb6...cJCYQJAYcqIYzv

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Why a sports handicapper would market his picks instead of just betting them himself is a valid question.

There is an old axiom in gambling that if one is good enough to make a living as a professional gambler then that person would do very well in the business world. Richard Munchkin recently made a statement about this situation. He said:

"If I can make money gambling why would I want to go into the business world?"

A sports handicapper marketing services has moved into the business world. Why?

I'm with Munchkin on this one. If I could pick 57% winners I'm going to kelly bet until filthy rich. To hell with creating extra work by starting a business. I'm going to spend my valuable time searching for the best bets and getting the action down.

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Yeah. Genie appears and say "I grant you the power to win 57% of your sports bets". The guy responds, "Oh good, I can sell my picks". :confused:

What are we missing mickey? :D

I see nothing "wrong" with touting.

Having others pay you for your suggestions generates money and will not likely have any effect on the line, so who cares, really?

Unlike "Beat the Dealer" it doesn't lead to effective casino counter measures, does it?

I choose not to bet sports but if I did, and if I felt I had some sort of skill or edge, I'd not be afraid to "sell" my wisdom to the sheeple.

We're capitalists, after all...aren't we?

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Why a sports handicapper would market his picks instead of just betting them himself is a valid question.

There is an old axiom in gambling that if one is good enough to make a living as a professional gambler then that person would do very well in the business world. Richard Munchkin recently made a statement about this situation. He said:

"If I can make money gambling why would I want to go into the business world?"

A sports handicapper marketing services has moved into the business world. Why?

I'm with Munchkin on this one. If I could pick 57% winners I'm going to kelly bet until filthy rich. To hell with creating extra work by starting a business. I'm going to spend my valuable time searching for the best bets and getting the action down.

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LOL. You're off on two things, which aren't exactly minor issues.

Point Number One: The people who pick 57% winners in a sport pick 57% winners in one, count 'em, one sport, with a limited number of plays per year, usually under 100 for football; maybe 250-300 or thereabouts for basketball. People are not, I repeat NOT, Leonardo Da AP's. When Mr. Walters recruited handicappers, he recruited them as specialists, not Leonardos. The roundtables he assembled for different sports were largely different groups of people. So it's pretty tough to get "filthy rich" handicapping at a 57% rate per year with 100 plays. You're talking 10-15 games over .500 per annum. I broke this down in other posts; you'd need a starting bankroll somewhere between 250K and 500K to make this work. Tough to do that without....other income.

Point Number Two for all you "APs" out there: When a handicapper works on a pay-after-you-win basis, what he has done is flip the percentages, a la AP'ing by definition. While the classic number is 52.3% versus "normal" juice, if a handicapper has clients who pay him after he wins (whether that winning is per game or per season), he has augmented his profits with the same percentage. If he wins 53% of the time, depending on how many clients he has and what they are paying him, he has generated income as if he'd hit 55% or 58% or 60% or more. He's basically turned that 10-10 payoff when he wins into an 11-10 or a 13-10 or a 2-1. It's classic "AP" methodology, only some people for some reason can't appreciate the obviousness of that. It's the equivalent of using a slot club to boost a marginally profitable (or even negative) game.

Now I find it very, very difficult to believe that mickey crimm, who is the creme de la creme of AP'ing, doesn't immediately grasp all this. So reading mickey's stuff, I'm forced to believe either (A) mickey is dumb as a rock or (B) he has some agenda. I'll go with (B).

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Originally Posted by MisterV

I see nothing "wrong" with touting.

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There is nothing "wrong" with it. It is not illegal or anything.

It is just that selling picks does not make you a professional sports bettor. Just like writing a book about blackjack doesn't make you a professional blackjack player. Nor does writing a book about video poker (Rob) make you a professional VP player.

Redietz has lead us to believe he was more of a sports bettor than a guy making his money as a tout, selling picks.

MrV, before deciding if you would consider me a "professional sports bettor," which is largely a matter of counts and amounts and opinions, check out the posted tickets in the Retro Road Trip thread and decide if those amounts constitute "professionalism." Some posters are very, shall we say, selective in what data they include in their posts (when they're not being caught in innumerable lies).

For example, both the KewlJ(s) and myself have accounts at Oddsmaker.ag. I have a dozen or so offshore accounts, and Oddsmaker would be considered a "boutique" sportsbook (not a big one). Now my wagering there totals somewhere between half a million and a million. Is that indicative of "professionalism?" I have no idea; you'll have to ask the Kewj(s). Maybe they've bet more there; I have no idea.

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Originally Posted by redietz

Point Number Two for all you "APs" out there: When a handicapper works on a pay-after-you-win basis, what he has done is flip the percentages, a la AP'ing by definition. While the classic number is 52.3% versus "normal" juice, if a handicapper has clients who pay him after he wins (whether that winning is per game or per season), he has augmented his profits with the same percentage. If he wins 53% of the time, depending on how many clients he has and what they are paying him, he has generated income as if he'd hit 55% or 58% or 60% or more. He's basically turned that 10-10 payoff when he wins into an 11-10 or a 13-10 or a 2-1. It's classic "AP" methodology, only some people for some reason can't appreciate the obviousness of that. It's the equivalent of using a slot club to boost a marginally profitable (or even negative) game.

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Nice try. :rolleyes:

If you are selling picks rather than betting, you are not a sports bettor. You are a tout. Spin and twist all you want. You can't change that fact.

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Originally Posted by redietz

MrV, before deciding if you would consider me a "professional sports bettor," which is largely a matter of counts and amounts and opinions, check out the posted tickets in the Retro Road Trip thread and decide if those amounts constitute "professionalism." Some posters are very, shall we say, selective in what data they include in their posts (when they're not being caught in innumerable lies).

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I don't know exactly what you do so how could I attempt to pigeonhole you?

My comment was a generalization and not directed specifically at you.

While I currently play slots I am interested in all aspects of gambling.

Bon chance.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

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Originally Posted by redietz

Point Number Two for all you "APs" out there: When a handicapper works on a pay-after-you-win basis, what he has done is flip the percentages, a la AP'ing by definition. While the classic number is 52.3% versus "normal" juice, if a handicapper has clients who pay him after he wins (whether that winning is per game or per season), he has augmented his profits with the same percentage. If he wins 53% of the time, depending on how many clients he has and what they are paying him, he has generated income as if he'd hit 55% or 58% or 60% or more. He's basically turned that 10-10 payoff when he wins into an 11-10 or a 13-10 or a 2-1. It's classic "AP" methodology, only some people for some reason can't appreciate the obviousness of that. It's the equivalent of using a slot club to boost a marginally profitable (or even negative) game.

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Nice try. :rolleyes:

If you are selling picks rather than betting, you are not a sports bettor. You are a tout. Spin and twist all you want. You can't change that fact.

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Again, I'm just going to keep hammering you with the obvious analogy. Financial advisors invest their own money. Yet they're still investment advisors. Obviously, I invest my own money and always have. So your entire argument is spurious nonsense.

Just another lie from the guy who told more whoppers than anyone on these forums.

So, do broken legs heal faster after you come back from the dead or before? And does Nersesian know how to set a broken bone or not?

Inquiring minds want to know.

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Originally Posted by redietz

So, do broken legs heal faster after you come back from the dead or before? And does Nersesian know how to set a broken bone or not?

Inquiring minds want to know.

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I have never had a broken leg so I wouldn't know. Nor do I know the extent of Mr. Nersesian's medical training if he has any.

But here's an idea. If you can't figure out these answers with you 130+ IQ and perfect SAT scores from 50 years ago, maybe you could have lunch with some academic Professor from John Hopkins and ask him or her.

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Originally Posted by redietz

So your entire argument is spurious nonsense.

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Somehow he failed to consider the obvious in his evaluation.

Spurious is being too kind...he's an imbecile.

I may not know everything Redietz, nor claim to. But here is what I do know. I may troll a bit and fight and argue with the trolls and haters, but I also have shared a lot of information on this forum about what I do and have done in Vegas over the last 16 years playing blackjack as a fulltime advantage player. And despite what your fellow troll and fool Rob Singer says, some of it is information you won't find anywhere else. Someone reading what I have written and shared about how I have played blackjack, would have a pretty good blue print of how to play for a living in Las Vegas and be welcome to play for a long time (longevity). Because THAT really is what it comes down to with blackjack and card counting....being able to keep playing.

Now, you.....I don't know what someone might have learned from you. How to be a tout? How to run a marketing business? I don't know. You tell me what someone might have learned from you? Seriously.

Anyway enough of this. Are we EVER going to get to this interview that you have been dragging your feet on? I think we can all see why you might have been doing so.

So, I have heard back from KimLee. He confirmed that Bob Dietz was listed in the 1980 Tipsters & Gypsters published by Mike McCusker, not that anyone doubted that. He also shared some other thoughts and information about not only Redietz, but some other well know people listed in those publications, which I am not going to repeat. That is his place to do so not mine. Maybe he will, maybe not. That is his call. I made him aware of this discussion, since Redietz brought his name up twice.

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Originally Posted by redietz

MrV, before deciding if you would consider me a "professional sports bettor," which is largely a matter of counts and amounts and opinions, check out the posted tickets in the Retro Road Trip thread and decide if those amounts constitute "professionalism." Some posters are very, shall we say, selective in what data they include in their posts (when they're not being caught in innumerable lies).

For example, both the KewlJ(s) and myself have accounts at Oddsmaker.ag. I have a dozen or so offshore accounts, and Oddsmaker would be considered a "boutique" sportsbook (not a big one). Now my wagering there totals somewhere between half a million and a million. Is that indicative of "professionalism?" I have no idea; you'll have to ask the Kewj(s). Maybe they've bet more there; I have no idea.

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A valid question is whose money are you betting?

There is a thread here from 2018 called Tipsters or Gypsters. Redietz posted some pics but two of them were upside down so I fixed them below. So according to Kimlee, reditz was in the rag in 1980. These two pics were for 1989 and 1990. It shows redietz did well those years. My question would be did he cherry pick those two years? He didn't publish any more results than those two years and he goes back to 1980 with this rag. What about the results for the other years?

https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...rs-or-Gypsters

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

There is a thread here from 2018 called Tipsters or Gypsters. Redietz posted some pics but two of them were upside down so I fixed them below. So according to Kimlee, reditz was in the rag in 1980. These two pics were for 1989 and 1990. It shows redietz did well those years. My question would be did he cherry pick those two years? He didn't publish any more results than those two years and he goes back to 1980 with this rag. What about the results for the other years?

https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...rs-or-Gypsters

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Note none of the “known” public handicappers of the era are shown on the list. This was the era where they were at their peak with 900 numbers, infomercials and ads everywhere in sports publications. Along with score phones which was huge in the day as an advertising platform.

This list is mostly smaller services like RED and others who I’m not sure how they advertised or promoted their services, or if they even did. With my skepticism of the industry I could assume this was the way they did. It wouldn’t be hard for one operator to own multiple companies on the list and then push the “winning” one.

But RED swears this was a legitimate service and overall he hasn’t ever lied to me about his history, I give him the benefit of the doubt. And we still have no proof, other than a vague claim from Rob, that he’s ever tried to solicit anyone here. I certainly heard of McCusker back then but again, he wasn’t the only one doing this and I just lumped him in with the other scammers/ angle shooters.

RED’s a stubborn SOB and no clue why he deals with the aggravation of arguing his status and history here. And yes Mick, I too would love to see the results over a 10-20 year period from this monitor. Are they lost to history?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

There is a thread here from 2018 called Tipsters or Gypsters. Redietz posted some pics but two of them were upside down so I fixed them below. So according to Kimlee, reditz was in the rag in 1980. These two pics were for 1989 and 1990. It shows redietz did well those years. My question would be did he cherry pick those two years? He didn't publish any more results than those two years and he goes back to 1980 with this rag. What about the results for the other years?

---

I should correct. When I said Kimlee confirmed redietz was in T & G in 1980, I should have said the 1980's, not specifically 1980.

But yes, this whole ordeal is about the cherry picking of a good year or two so that the "players" can use that as a tool to solicit clients/customers.

You might have though, as I originally did, that this kind of monitoring list was about bragging rights among real legit sports bettors. But that is not it at all. It is about doing well a couple years so you can cherry pick that information to use in soliciting new customers. And I am sorry, but that just isn't advantage play or winning sports betting.

An advantage player or in the case of sports, a real winning player is someone who plays whatever casino game, or in the case of sports, bets the games, and wins more than he loses. If you aren't actually winning by betting and playing you are not a winning player. :D It is NOT that difficult.

I mean come on, in addition to the writing books analogy, I will throw a couple more out there. These people, like the two different young ladies that play blackjack on YouTube are NOT professional blackjack players. There money comes from views on youtube. They are YouTubers.

And this one wont endear me to our fearless forum owner, who already doesn't care for me, but I have a problem with poker players buying pieces of one another. (besides that it opens the door wide for collusion), let me ask this. Is a player who plays lets say 20 tournaments a year, cashed in zero of them, but has pieces of players that cashed in several a winning player? :confused:

A winning player i someone that plays the game (or bets sports) and wins an amount more than he loses....PERIOD!!! This idea of supplementing an AP income with selling picks or writing books, is for the birds.


Hey what about this. Guy plays blackjack and bets sports for a living. At blackjack he loses 10k, at sports betting he losses 8k. But he "supplements his professional blackjack and sports betting by working as a night watchman for 50k a year. Is he really playing blackjack and betting sports for a living? :D

If you say you are doing something for a living....make your money from that!!!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

If you say you are doing something for a living....make your money from that!!!!!!

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Are touts akin to pastors, using their supposed "inside information" to "save" the uninformed...for a tithing...?

Oh geez. This brings me back to a fellow on Norms blackjack forum that I had a problem with. I am not going to say his name/handle. Some of you will recognise as to whom I am speaking of. He is probably gone now as last I heard he was in poor health.

So this guy presented himself as...and this is a direct quote, "a 20 year professional blackjack player".

Turns out he was a professor at a small college, retired early in his 50's and began his 20 year professional blackjack career. Also turns out he was a life-long degenerate gambler. Horses (big time horse player), roulette, craps I think.

So during this 20 year professional blackjack career, believe at the end he declared he had won like 300k. Over 20 years. And that included 1 year playing on a team where his income was 100k. So for the remaining 19 years he made 10k a year (shades of the late Moses).

And here is the best part. Being retired, he had a pension, and during part of that time collected social security, AND his wife worked full-time well into her retirement years to support him. Was he really a 20 year professional blackjack player, as he claimed when he was soliciting players to "Mentor"? :D

There is some other shady stuff about that fellow, but I am not going to go into since I am not naming him. the guys associated with blackjack have surely already heard it.

I will say it one more time, if you are claiming you do something for a living in gambling.....do that for a living!!

nothing wrong with APing while having a pension or on social security. I have argued in the past, that is a perfect time to AP. But you have to be somewhat honest about it, like mickeycrimm has been.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Is this like the 10th time you've announced you're leaving? Why are you still here?

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Yeah and you were told to stop hijacking threads with this continuing shit. When is THAT going to happen?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Boz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

There is a thread here from 2018 called Tipsters or Gypsters. Redietz posted some pics but two of them were upside down so I fixed them below. So according to Kimlee, reditz was in the rag in 1980. These two pics were for 1989 and 1990. It shows redietz did well those years. My question would be did he cherry pick those two years? He didn't publish any more results than those two years and he goes back to 1980 with this rag. What about the results for the other years?

https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...rs-or-Gypsters

---

Note none of the “known” public handicappers of the era are shown on the list. This was the era where they were at their peak with 900 numbers, infomercials and ads everywhere in sports publications. Along with score phones which was huge in the day as an advertising platform.

This list is mostly smaller services like RED and others who I’m not sure how they advertised or promoted their services, or if they even did. With my skepticism of the industry I could assume this was the way they did. It wouldn’t be hard for one operator to own multiple companies on the list and then push the “winning” one.

But RED swears this was a legitimate service and overall he hasn’t ever lied to me about his history, I give him the benefit of the doubt. And we still have no proof, other than a vague claim from Rob, that he’s ever tried to solicit anyone here. I certainly heard of McCusker back then but again, he wasn’t the only one doing this and I just lumped him in with the other scammers/ angle shooters.

RED’s a stubborn SOB and no clue why he deals with the aggravation of arguing his status and history here. And yes Mick, I too would love to see the results over a 10-20 year period from this monitor. Are they lost to history?

---

Boz, I seen redietz advertising some time ago. I don't remember where it is so maybe he can post a link if it's still up and running. IIRC, he was advertising for investors with a promised return, something like 10% to 15%, for a 4 month period. That would be a pretty good return. It looks to me like they probably had to send him the money upfront and he would pay them at the end of the season. And that's why I've asked redietz, when he talks about all the action he has run, whose money was he betting.

Investors! That is even more fucked up than selling picks

If you are a successful sports bettor for what is it now Red....50 years, why do you need investors?

Just like an onion...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

why do you need investors?

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It's likely because the investors pay him commission from their profits, which are achieved by following his advice.

He already explained how the math works in his favor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Boz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

There is a thread here from 2018 called Tipsters or Gypsters. Redietz posted some pics but two of them were upside down so I fixed them below. So according to Kimlee, reditz was in the rag in 1980. These two pics were for 1989 and 1990. It shows redietz did well those years. My question would be did he cherry pick those two years? He didn't publish any more results than those two years and he goes back to 1980 with this rag. What about the results for the other years?

https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...rs-or-Gypsters

---

Note none of the “known” public handicappers of the era are shown on the list. This was the era where they were at their peak with 900 numbers, infomercials and ads everywhere in sports publications. Along with score phones which was huge in the day as an advertising platform.

This list is mostly smaller services like RED and others who I’m not sure how they advertised or promoted their services, or if they even did. With my skepticism of the industry I could assume this was the way they did. It wouldn’t be hard for one operator to own multiple companies on the list and then push the “winning” one.

But RED swears this was a legitimate service and overall he hasn’t ever lied to me about his history, I give him the benefit of the doubt. And we still have no proof, other than a vague claim from Rob, that he’s ever tried to solicit anyone here. I certainly heard of McCusker back then but again, he wasn’t the only one doing this and I just lumped him in with the other scammers/ angle shooters.

RED’s a stubborn SOB and no clue why he deals with the aggravation of arguing his status and history here. And yes Mick, I too would love to see the results over a 10-20 year period from this monitor. Are they lost to history?

---

Boz, I seen redietz advertising some time ago. I don't remember where it is so maybe he can post a link if it's still up and running. IIRC, he was advertising for investors with a promised return, something like 10% to 15%, for a 4 month period. That would be a pretty good return. It looks to me like they probably had to send him the money upfront and he would pay them at the end of the season. And that's why I've asked redietz, when he talks about all the action he has run, whose money was he betting.

---

When looking I ran into this...


Checking In
« on: April 11, 2011, 02:12:34 PM »
Hey, everybody.

As a brief intro, I have been a reasonably well known sports gambler for the last 30 years, so if anyone has a question regarding such, fire away. I founded an enterprise called Integrity Sports back in 1979. Not really a "tout service" in the classic sense; I have worked primarily on percent-of-profit basis with people. I have, obviously, a good historical overview of the whole sports gambling world.

And I never, ever solicited anything on the LVA boards, so I doubt most folks know much of this. Don't worry about me trying to sell anybody anything (unless you're an Angelina Jolie clone, in which case I'll make an exception).

My sports writing, which was once a feature at Playbook, was cut when Jim Feist entered into the Playbook partnership. Now my stuff gets posted on freesportsinfo.com on occasion.

My claim to providing useful info to Las Vegas visitors is that I spent 90-100 days in hotel living in Las Vegas each year for more than 20 years, so I've seen everything from the old Gold Spike rooms to the ancient round-bed suites at Caesars. I'm reasonably well informed except when it comes to clubbing.

Anyway, hey there, and glad to meet you.

Bob Dietz (aka Bob Dietz)

Interesting.

So Red's business model is that he has clients who turn over large sums of money to him to bet on sports for a period of a number of months and if he wins, he returns their money and a portion of what he has won?

And what happens if/when he doesn't win?

I know PT Barnum said there is a sucker born every minute, but this is extremely hard for me to believe.

Oh and one other thing. The timeline. Red started this "enterprise" in 1979, which at 68/69 years old now, would have him as a fresh 22 year old straight out of college. How the fuck do you convince people to turn over large sums of money to a guy with no track record?

Something....make that many things don't add up for me. But I will let you guys figure it out.

I hate to say this....but based on the time of this information Axelwolf dug up, I think Red probably DID solicit Rob Singer as Singer has claimed. In 2011, when Red joined this forum, and made that introduction, he probably believed Singer's stories of winning huge amounts playing video poker and figured the guy has some money, making him a prime target.

This forum just gets weirder and weirder.

We have a dude born into a wealthy Arab family that wins millions and millions from the Strip casinos for years now, playing rated, and the casinos love him for it and take no action against him, instead comping him out the ass.

We have Mr Newell, win by progression wagering, win several million dollar jackpots, who ends up with a retirement plan of living off his kids.

And now we have a guy that has clients turn over large sums of money for him to bet and if he wins, he returns a portion of the winnings to them.

Add that to a former member/founder who claims he saw 18 y.o. in a row, and a guy, now deceased who claims he played blackjack professionally in Reno, where you can't get anything above green action down for more than 20 minutes and this is one doozy of a forum. Que the twilight zone music.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

It's the equivalent of using a slot club to boost a marginally profitable (or even negative) game.

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And if one took a free roll percentage of his investors while playing a marginally profitable game, the investors would not have any advantage(depending on the percentages ofc); they would be investing in a negative situation due to having to pay a commission/percentage/fee. The only one who would be making a profit is the investee. And that's the problem with the tout/investor situation when it comes to sports betting, you're working with small advantages and a low number of trials.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

the investors would not have any advantage(depending on the percentages ofc); they would be investing in a negative situation due to having to pay a commission/percentage/fee.

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When would this situation become problematic for the investor?

This reads like you are applying the expected value of random outcomes to sports betting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coach belly

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

the investors would not have any advantage(depending on the percentages ofc); they would be investing in a negative situation due to having to pay a commission/percentage/fee.

---

When would this situation become problematic for the investor?

This reads like you are applying the expected value of random outcomes to sports betting.

---

One would need to know the touts' win rate/percentage/advantage/EV, average vig, a breakdown of how, when and why the investor pays. Helpful factors to know would be how many games the investor plans on staying in for. Will games be flat bet, or will there be some scale betting based on the presumed strength of the bet situation.

There's a lot that goes into figuring out if you actually have an advantage as an investor. I can see how someone could be snowed into thinking they have the best it of it based solely on what someone's record is showing.

Perhaps that's why certain people want to pretend there is no such thing as +EV in sports betting.

The same would apply to any gambling investing situation, minus the sports terminology.

Assuming you have a 100.1 +EV situation on a game(or the players club) itself, and the investor had to give up 15% of his winnings, and they played one trial, the investor would be at a huge disadvantage, and the investee would have a huge advantage. As the percentage of the game and the number of trials increase the more likely the it becomes that the investor has an advantage. Game variance plays a part as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Interesting. So Red's business model is that he has clients who turn over large sums of money to him to bet on sports for a period of a number of months and if he wins, he returns their money and a portion of what he has won?

---

Clever business model...for the tout.

But the investor?

Sort of like paying a stranger to fuck your wife while you get to watch from afar.

No telling what formula redietz was using but here is some simple math.

If the tout wins 55% of games for the investor:

Betting $1.10 for 100 games means a return of $115.50 on $110 in action.

If the investor pays 10% on the 55 winning bets his return is $110 on $110 in action.

If the tout also bets his own money at the same price as the investor then his return, including his commissions from the investor, is $121 on his $110 in action. A 10% ROI.

This also works to protect the tout from losses from losing sets of 100 decisions. The tout would break even if he won only 47 out of 100. But the investor, losing 11% on 47 out of 100, is shit out of luck.

Great deal for the tout. Not so good for the investor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MisterV

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Interesting. So Red's business model is that he has clients who turn over large sums of money to him to bet on sports for a period of a number of months and if he wins, he returns their money and a portion of what he has won?

---

Clever business model...for the tout.

But the investor?

Sort of like paying a stranger to fuck your wife while you get to watch from afar.

---

Funny analogy but slightly flawed, as there are some people who do exactly this and perceive genuine value from the transaction based on their personal tastes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Again, this thread is NOT about me MDAWG. This is a thread about Red and his claims..

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

you will notice the posers, frauds, people like dawg and Singer, never talk about losing. Everything is winning, winning, winning with these people.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I have played blackjack, would have a pretty good blue print of how to play for a living in Las Vegas and be welcome to play for a long time (longevity). Because THAT really is what it comes down to with blackjack and card counting....being able to keep playing..

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

We have a dude born into a wealthy Arab family that wins millions and millions from the Strip casinos for years now, playing rated, and the casinos love him for it and take no action against him, instead comping him out the ass.

We have Mr Newell, win by progression wagering, win several million dollar jackpots, who ends up with a retirement plan of living off his kids.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcap

Trying so hard to be a victim after the shit KJ has said about shack and qfit. People have a problem with you primarily because you’re as big of a self righteous hypocrite as there is in this world.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

It is about you lying constantly !!!! and a ceaseless hypocrite

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Dan Druff simply shares his expert opinion of what the truth is. he has been on these forums for a very long time and knows how to read people.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

kewlJ has also been caught in a lot of lies over time, both on this forum and elsewhere. Therefore, it is unclear if he really makes much (or anything) playing blackjack these days.

kewlJ is basically the Boy Who Cried Wolf of these AP forums. He has lied so many times that it's impossible to believe any stories he tells.

---

Why isn't this retard posting more fake baccarat sessions?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Interesting.

So Red's business model is that he has clients who turn over large sums of money to him to bet on sports for a period of a number of months and if he wins, he returns their money and a portion of what he has won?

And what happens if/when he doesn't win?

I know PT Barnum said there is a sucker born every minute, but this is extremely hard for me to believe.

Oh and one other thing. The timeline. Red started this "enterprise" in 1979, which at 68/69 years old now, would have him as a fresh 22 year old straight out of college. How the fuck do you convince people to turn over large sums of money to a guy with no track record?

Something....make that many things don't add up for me. But I will let you guys figure it out.

---

It is funny how he compared what he does to APs when he doesn't even appear to gamble his own money. Just hustling freerolls. If you're good at it then it is great. I have a friend who lives in a large city that is fairly wealthy. He calls himself a stakehorse and gets in these spots all the time. Half of what he wins or nothing of he loses. I'm impressed.

But he isn't a player if he doesn't gamble his own money. He's a hustler through and through.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

No telling what formula redietz was using but here is some simple math.

If the tout wins 55% of games for the investor:

Betting $1.10 for 100 games means a return of $115.50 on $110 in action.

If the investor pays 10% on the 55 winning bets his return is $110 on $110 in action.

If the tout also bets his own money at the same price as the investor then his return, including his commissions from the investor, is $121 on his $110 in action. A 10% ROI.

This also works to protect the tout from losses from losing sets of 100 decisions. The tout would break even if he won only 47 out of 100. But the investor, losing 11% on 47 out of 100, is shit out of luck.

Great deal for the tout. Not so good for the investor.

---

Wait but what about those immoral types utilizing the bonuses of othere that were not going to be utilized otherwise?

Not fair to the casinos !

Lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Interesting.

So Red's business model is that he has clients who turn over large sums of money to him to bet on sports for a period of a number of months and if he wins, he returns their money and a portion of what he has won?

And what happens if/when he doesn't win?

I know PT Barnum said there is a sucker born every minute, but this is extremely hard for me to believe.

Oh and one other thing. The timeline. Red started this "enterprise" in 1979, which at 68/69 years old now, would have him as a fresh 22 year old straight out of college. How the fuck do you convince people to turn over large sums of money to a guy with no track record?

Something....make that many things don't add up for me. But I will let you guys figure it out.

---

It is funny how he compared what he does to APs when he doesn't even appear to gamble his own money. Just hustling freerolls. If you're good at it then it is great. I have a friend who lives in a large city that is fairly wealthy. He calls himself a stakehorse and gets in these spots all the time. Half of what he wins or nothing of he loses. I'm impressed.

But he isn't a player if he doesn't gamble his own money. He's a hustler through and through.

---

He literally has the smartest slant eyed gook sports and horse handicapper in the nation.
He's basically printing money.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

If the investor pays 10% on the 55 winning bets his return is $110 on $110 in action.

---

In your scenario, the bettor wins 55% of his wagers, then pays 10% commission on the overall win, which brings him to net break-even for his total wager.

Is that correct?

Is it impossible, or even unlikely, that Integrity's actual combination of win rate & commission rate will produce whatever return that's projected by the advisor?

There must be an infinite number of combinations that are +EV.

But you can eliminate any combination that won't or can't produce a consistent positive return, because his investors would not participate under those conditions.

There is, of course, a way to objectively determine how successful a gambler is, and that is to examine their tax returns.

Not that Redietz, KJ or the hound should or would disclose them to a trusted, neutral party such as Dan for examination and then feedback to the forum: but they could.

Of course it will never happen and so questions will remain unanswered...not that the questions really matter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coach belly

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

If the investor pays 10% on the 55 winning bets his return is $110 on $110 in action.

---

In your scenario, the bettor wins 55% of his wagers, then pays 10% commission on the overall win, which brings him to net break-even for his total wager.

Is that correct?

Is it impossible, or even unlikely, that Integrity's actual combination of win rate & commission rate will produce whatever return that's projected by the advisor?

There must be an infinite number of combinations that are +EV.

But you can eliminate any combination that won't or can't produce a consistent positive return, because his investors would not participate under those conditions.

---

The thing I find shocking is how this all seems novel to "APs," who have posted all these hundreds of posts as if they have any idea what I do or how I do it. What I'm reporting here is basic, fundamental, obvious stuff, but I guess not all experts are expert, if you know what I mean. This is not terribly far removed from basic non-gambling investment relationships.

Well, far be it for me to not complicate it further. When people have asked about payback scales, what I have recommended to balance aggressiveness with sanity, is a sliding scale. Any profits up to 15% are "taxed" at 15%. Any annual profits beyond that are tit for tat -- 16% profit pays 16%. A 20% profit pays 20%, up to a ceiling of 35%. The ceiling prevents gluttony on my part.

Now I'm sure to next hear about mixing and matching so somebody must wind up owing me something. Well, that's a great plan -- LOL -- unless (A) your major wagers occasionally bleed into public view (as with The Wise Guys Contest or various monitors' reports) or ta taaa (B) the investors actually know each other, in which case any shenanigans become impossible. Oh Geez, I guess some readers are sooooo disappointed. You know, I considered skipping this obvious fact, and letting people speculate shadiness, but I figured I'd save you guys some time and effort.

For the record, by the way, investors were able to opt out of various categories, the categories being arbitrage, middles shooting, futures, and standard wagering. Nobody, of course, opts out of arbitrage.

I can't believe mickey is acting as if his simple math is revelatory -- the lack of sport betting savvy is, frankly, unbelievable here. Some folks are doing analyses as if they have uncovered something. I mean, Good Golly Miss Molly, if you didn't understand all this from the jump, why are you even commenting on any of it? You don't see me doing Dietz commentary on blackjack players or "advantage slots" dudes. It's because I'm not an idiot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coach belly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

If the investor pays 10% on the 55 winning bets his return is $110 on $110 in action.

---

In your scenario, the bettor wins 55% of his wagers, then pays 10% commission on the overall win, which brings him to net break-even for his total wager.

Is that correct?

Is it impossible, or even unlikely, that Integrity's actual combination of win rate & commission rate will produce whatever return that's projected by the advisor?

There must be an infinite number of combinations that are +EV.

But you can eliminate any combination that won't or can't produce a consistent positive return, because his investors would not participate under those conditions.

---

The thing I find shocking is how this all seems novel to "APs," who have posted all these hundreds of posts as if they have any idea what I do or how I do it. What I'm reporting here is basic, fundamental, obvious stuff, but I guess not all experts are expert, if you know what I mean. This is not terribly far removed from basic non-gambling investment relationships.

Well, far be it for me to not complicate it further. When people have asked about payback scales, what I have recommended to balance aggressiveness with sanity, is a sliding scale. Any profits up to 15% are "taxed" at 15%. Any annual profits beyond that are tit for tat -- 16% profit pays 16%. A 20% profit pays 20%, up to a ceiling of 35%. The ceiling prevents gluttony on my part.

Now I'm sure to next hear about mixing and matching so somebody must wind up owing me something. Well, that's a great plan -- LOL -- unless (A) your major wagers occasionally bleed into public view (as with The Wise Guys Contest or various monitors' reports) or ta taaa (B) the investors actually know each other, in which case any shenanigans become impossible. Oh Geez, I guess some readers are sooooo disappointed. You know, I considered skipping this obvious fact, and letting people speculate shadiness, but I figured I'd save you guys some time and effort.

For the record, by the way, investors were able to opt out of various categories, the categories being arbitrage, middles shooting, futures, and standard wagering. Nobody, of course, opts out of arbitrage.

I can't believe mickey is acting as if his simple math is revelatory -- the lack of sport betting savvy is, frankly, unbelievable here. Some folks are doing analyses as if they have uncovered something. I mean, Good Golly Miss Molly, if you didn't understand all this from the jump, why are you even commenting on any of it? You don't see me doing Dietz commentary on blackjack players or "advantage slots" dudes. It's because I'm not an idiot.

---

My problem is that you said you shouldn't respond to the lying queer J, but you keep responding to he/him/her/she/they/them/it.
And why on Earth do you need to type out novels to justify what you do?
Just keep picking winners baby.
But for goodness sakes, stop scamming people out of money for sports picks.
I'm ok with the scam but stop acting so moral.
Have some integrity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

This is not terribly far removed from basic non-gambling investment relationships.

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These guys are so far removed from the mainstream that their concept of basic investment relationships doesn't extend beyond grift.

You can see how that manifests itself, when multi friend-maker change-boy numero-uno, who has met and hung out with hundreds of members of the forums, ultimately chooses all the solitude and reclusion that his money can buy, for his penultimate play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by monet

My problem is that you said you shouldn't respond to the lying queer J, but you keep responding to he/him/her/she/they/them/it.

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You really are a piece of shit dude. I have been nothing but respectful to you, as we have occasionally discussed sports. And then you come at me with this shit. You can call me she/her, but I am a man. A gay man. And more of a man that you will ever be. And I can see my dick with the use and positioning of mirrors, you fat, disgusting, piece of shit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by monet

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coach belly

In your scenario, the bettor wins 55% of his wagers, then pays 10% commission on the overall win, which brings him to net break-even for his total wager.

Is that correct?

Is it impossible, or even unlikely, that Integrity's actual combination of win rate & commission rate will produce whatever return that's projected by the advisor?

There must be an infinite number of combinations that are +EV.

But you can eliminate any combination that won't or can't produce a consistent positive return, because his investors would not participate under those conditions.

---

The thing I find shocking is how this all seems novel to "APs," who have posted all these hundreds of posts as if they have any idea what I do or how I do it. What I'm reporting here is basic, fundamental, obvious stuff, but I guess not all experts are expert, if you know what I mean. This is not terribly far removed from basic non-gambling investment relationships.

Well, far be it for me to not complicate it further. When people have asked about payback scales, what I have recommended to balance aggressiveness with sanity, is a sliding scale. Any profits up to 15% are "taxed" at 15%. Any annual profits beyond that are tit for tat -- 16% profit pays 16%. A 20% profit pays 20%, up to a ceiling of 35%. The ceiling prevents gluttony on my part.

Now I'm sure to next hear about mixing and matching so somebody must wind up owing me something. Well, that's a great plan -- LOL -- unless (A) your major wagers occasionally bleed into public view (as with The Wise Guys Contest or various monitors' reports) or ta taaa (B) the investors actually know each other, in which case any shenanigans become impossible. Oh Geez, I guess some readers are sooooo disappointed. You know, I considered skipping this obvious fact, and letting people speculate shadiness, but I figured I'd save you guys some time and effort.

For the record, by the way, investors were able to opt out of various categories, the categories being arbitrage, middles shooting, futures, and standard wagering. Nobody, of course, opts out of arbitrage.

I can't believe mickey is acting as if his simple math is revelatory -- the lack of sport betting savvy is, frankly, unbelievable here. Some folks are doing analyses as if they have uncovered something. I mean, Good Golly Miss Molly, if you didn't understand all this from the jump, why are you even commenting on any of it? You don't see me doing Dietz commentary on blackjack players or "advantage slots" dudes. It's because I'm not an idiot.

---

My problem is that you said you shouldn't respond to the lying queer J, but you keep responding to he/him/her/she/they/them/it.
And why on Earth do you need to type out novels to justify what you do?
Just keep picking winners baby.
But for goodness sakes, stop scamming people out of money for sports picks.
I'm ok with the scam but stop acting so moral.
Have some integrity.

---

I want to see him explain how he decides when not to bet without utilizing the concept of EV.

This is such a completely key thing to know. I guess you could sort your hunches and just select the #1 hunch every time and that could very well work if you were good enough but why?

Unfortunately Red's bag of smoke grenades is infinite in depth. He's got all sorts of colors and durations. Some might even have a nerve gas that gives you the shits. We're going to see it all before we see him on a fucking podcast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

I can see my dick

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Do you consider that to be important?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by monet

My problem is that you said you shouldn't respond to the lying queer J, but you keep responding to he/him/her/she/they/them/it.

---

You really are a piece of shit dude. I have been nothing but respectful to you, as we have occasionally discussed sports. And then you come at me with this shit. You can call me she/her, but I am a man. A gay man. And more of a man that you will ever be. And I can see my dick with the use and positioning of mirrors, you fat, disgusting, piece of shit.

---

I don't change.
I've been saying the same queer J jokes for over 8 years, on this site now.
Will continue to do so.
Sports Talk is Sports Talk.
I'm not your buddy, pal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MisterV

There is, of course, a way to objectively determine how successful a gambler is, and that is to examine their tax returns.

Not that Redietz, KJ or the hound should or would disclose them to a trusted, neutral party such as Dan for examination and then feedback to the forum: but they could.

Of course it will never happen and so questions will remain unanswered...not that the questions really matter.

---

Here is the jist of it MrV. what you call successful gamblers, and I call advantage players, don't need some 3rd party to monitor results. Results are reflected in our bank accounts. because that is what it is really about....making money.

If we share something monetarily, like what we made on a play or made for a year on a public forum, people can believe that or not. I always say, most reasonable people should be able to put it together with what knowledge the person has demonstrated they know, if they can explain what they do and what the advantage is ect. But no one is going to prove anything to strangers on an internet forum. For what? No more than you or any other non-Ap is going to prove what is in their bank account right now. Why would anyone. no one is on trial.

Now the big difference with the redietz claiming 3rd party verification, still proves nothing about what he or one of these other "tout" type actually won or lost or made for any period of time. All that verification is....is a tool that can enable them to gain new clients. The verification doesn't add 1 cent to their bank accounts. No extra money. To the contrary...they pay for that. So that should be a red flag. It is just so they can pull out a piece of paper when soliciting clients and say "see this, I finished 3rd in xxx last year or 2 years ago" (cherry-picking the good years).
.
Red wants to make it seem like the verification is some kind of righteous thing. He is verified by some 3rd party that you pay for <- :D But in reality it is only for the purpose of attracting new "marks" or clients.

This "touting" scam or hustle seems to be a big thing in the sports betting world. Not illegal. But you always have to ask yourself, if someone, anyone is able to pick sports at 56-57% or more to win overcoming the vig, why are they selling those picks. Why the hell aren't they just betting, winning, pocketing the money. over and over and over. License to print money.

And by the way...same think with every other freaking system or betting pattern that someone claims on these forums, or youtube. If someone really found the holy grail, something that really worked, they wouldn't be selling it. They would spend every minute and every dollar applying it. :cool:

Which BTW, how is that progression system going Rob? Rob who lives with his daughter. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MisterV

There is, of course, a way to objectively determine how successful a gambler is, and that is to examine their tax returns.

Not that Redietz, KJ or the hound should or would disclose them to a trusted, neutral party such as Dan for examination and then feedback to the forum: but they could.

Of course it will never happen and so questions will remain unanswered...not that the questions really matter.

---

Here is the jist of it MrV. what you call successful gamblers, and I call advantage players, don't need some 3rd party to monitor results. Results are reflected in our bank accounts. because that is what it is really about....making money.

If we share something monetarily, like what we made on a play or made for a year on a public forum, people can believe that or not. I always say, most reasonable people should be able to put it together with what knowledge the person has demonstrated they know, if they can explain what they do and what the advantage is ect. But no one is going to prove anything to strangers on an internet forum. For what? No more than you or any other non-Ap is going to prove what is in their bank account right now. Why would anyone. no one is on trial.

Now the big difference with the redietz claiming 3rd party verification, still proves nothing about what he or one of these other "tout" type actually won or lost or made for any period of time. All that verification is....is a tool that can enable them to gain new clients. The verification doesn't add 1 cent to their bank accounts. No extra money. To the contrary...they pay for that. So that should be a red flag. It is just so they can pull out a piece of paper when soliciting clients and say "see this, I finished 3rd in xxx last year or 2 years ago" (cherry-picking the good years).
.
Red wants to make it seem like the verification is some kind of righteous thing. He is verified by some 3rd party that you pay for <- :D But in reality it is only for the purpose of attracting new "marks" or clients.

This "touting" scam or hustle seems to be a big thing in the sports betting world. Not illegal. But you always have to ask yourself, if someone, anyone is able to pick sports at 56-57% or more to win overcoming the vig, why are they selling those picks. Why the hell aren't they just betting, winning, pocketing the money. over and over and over. License to print money.

And by the way...same think with every other freaking system or betting pattern that someone claims on these forums, or youtube. If someone really found the holy grail, something that really worked, they wouldn't be selling it. They would spend every minute and every dollar applying it.
:cool:

Which BTW, how is that progression system going Rob? Rob who lives with his daughter. :D

---

Again, by KewlJ(s) logic, or lack thereof, there should be no investment counselors or financial advisors in the world. That simple.

The "APs" hide in the dark and tell stories. Some stories, like mickey's, make some sense and have some inner consistency. Some, like the KewlJ(s), do not. Either way, very little can be corroborated, if any of it.

As opposed to handicappers in public view, with their records ATS on display for all to see, with multiple clients who know each other and can compare notes and blow the whistle on the handicapper at any time. You decide which stories are more likely to be fairy tales. Again, that simple.

Is English your second language with that last paragraph red?

The funny thing about this is red and Kewlj might both be in the 99th% percentile of self righteous motherfuckers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MisterV

There is, of course, a way to objectively determine how successful a gambler is, and that is to examine their tax returns.

Not that Redietz, KJ or the hound should or would disclose them to a trusted, neutral party such as Dan for examination and then feedback to the forum: but they could.

Of course it will never happen and so questions will remain unanswered...not that the questions really matter.

---

Here is the jist of it MrV. what you call successful gamblers, and I call advantage players, don't need some 3rd party to monitor results. Results are reflected in our bank accounts. because that is what it is really about....making money.

If we share something monetarily, like what we made on a play or made for a year on a public forum, people can believe that or not. I always say, most reasonable people should be able to put it together with what knowledge the person has demonstrated they know, if they can explain what they do and what the advantage is ect. But no one is going to prove anything to strangers on an internet forum. For what? No more than you or any other non-Ap is going to prove what is in their bank account right now. Why would anyone. no one is on trial.

Now the big difference with the redietz claiming 3rd party verification, still proves nothing about what he or one of these other "tout" type actually won or lost or made for any period of time. All that verification is....is a tool that can enable them to gain new clients. The verification doesn't add 1 cent to their bank accounts. No extra money. To the contrary...they pay for that. So that should be a red flag. It is just so they can pull out a piece of paper when soliciting clients and say "see this, I finished 3rd in xxx last year or 2 years ago" (cherry-picking the good years).
.
Red wants to make it seem like the verification is some kind of righteous thing. He is verified by some 3rd party that you pay for <- :D But in reality it is only for the purpose of attracting new "marks" or clients.

This "touting" scam or hustle seems to be a big thing in the sports betting world. Not illegal. But you always have to ask yourself, if someone, anyone is able to pick sports at 56-57% or more to win overcoming the vig, why are they selling those picks. Why the hell aren't they just betting, winning, pocketing the money. over and over and over. License to print money.

And by the way...same think with every other freaking system or betting pattern that someone claims on these forums, or youtube. If someone really found the holy grail, something that really worked, they wouldn't be selling it. They would spend every minute and every dollar applying it.
:cool:

Which BTW, how is that progression system going Rob? Rob who lives with his daughter. :D

---

Again, by KewlJ(s) logic, or lack thereof, there should be no investment counselors or financial advisors in the world. That simple.

The "APs" hide in the dark and tell stories. Some stories, like mickey's, make some sense and have some inner consistency. Some, like the KewlJ(s), do not. Either way, very little can be corroborated, if any of it.

As opposed to handicappers in public view, with their records ATS on display for all to see, with multiple clients who know each other and can compare notes and blow the whistle on the handicapper at any time. You decide which stories are more likely to be fairy tales. Again, that simple.

---

How do we know you have multiple clients who all know each other?

Anyway, if so then it is likely because they're all loling at it behind the scenes. Or something like "man I like this guy - he gives me a good sweat. I've won 3 out of the last 5 years and am only down $3k. It is worth it for the entertainment and I like the guy. He once met a mobster in Las Vegas."

Regardless - for all your talk of collaboration - having a record of being a winner of some frequency in basically what is an educated coin flip tournament contest from 20+ years ago being the only thing we can collaborate is a bit ... silly.

A couple things here:

I get a kick out of Red, repeatedly trying to compare this to a financial advisor/investor. That is funny as shit!!:D I think a better and closer comparison would be to a drug dealer. Dealer borrows money. Buys a shit load of drugs. Spends the next couple months re-selling drugs. And then returns the money borrowed and splits the profits with the "investor". :cool:

There is another funny part to this. These people...these "clients" are gamblers. They are degenerate types that like to bet on sports. So Red is asking them to turn their money over to him, while HE bets on the sports. So they sit there not knowing if they have action on a particular game or not, which is the whole thing they like to do...wager on sports.

Now maybe he can find someone that would do that, for the promise of a good return IF Dietz wins. But it is weird. Its like asking a guy that likes to smoke pot, well how about you give me the money you were going to spend on pot and watch me smoke it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZenKinG

Without your mouth, you can't make a living.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by OppsIdidItAgain

Anyone who reads even a bit of a sheet of text like that, the stuff KJ spews on a daily basis, has to have a screw loose.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MDawg

UNKewlJ is a male prostitute who plays a lil blackjack as cover for his hustling is all.

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The Arab pussy still hijacking threads and legitimate discussions like the common troll that he is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

Please tell me that this entire routine of yours is a years-long troll job. At least that I could respect.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

they sit there not knowing if they have action on a particular game or not

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How did you come up with this ridiculous scenario?

You're deranged.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Dealer borrows money. Buys a shit load of drugs. Spends the next couple months re-selling drugs. And then returns the money borrowed and splits the profits with the "investor".

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Yeah...I don't think that's how it works.

I'm pretty sure that such loans are expected to be repaid, with interest, whether the dealer profits from re-selling the drugs or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Point Number One: The people who pick 57% winners in ...maybe 250-300 or thereabouts for basketball ... need a starting bankroll somewhere between 250K and 500K to make this work.

Point Number Two for all you "APs" out there: When a handicapper ... wins 53% of the time, depending on how many clients he has and what they are paying him, he has generated income as if he'd hit 55% or 58% or 60% or more. ... It's classic "AP" methodology.

---

I wanted to support Bob (redietz) as a long-time handicapper who tried to play it straight by having Integrity Sports monitored. I don't know how he paid his rent in Vegas, but he could have mixed betting with touting, shopping numbers and playing promotions in town, perhaps booking some bets on the side. He could also have had other sources of money.

I also wanted to warn that touting is a sleazy marketing business. Even if a tout starts with an edge, it inevitably deteriorates over time, and he is stuck selling worthless picks for the rest of his career. I studied monitored touts and found one guy who stopped his 60%+ winning NFL preseason service. He explained that he got coach's interviews from wire services. It was easy to handicap when you know one coach will sit his stars, while the other coach plans to let them play four quarters. When the internet made this information widely available, the tout lost his edge and stopped the service. Wow, that was honest!

But this money management nonsense is annoying. A 57% Kelly bettor should bet 10% of his bankroll at -110. Haralabos Voulgaris made millions betting NBA totals. There are plenty of losing gamblers who find time to handicap, gamble, and post on internet forums. If you could really hit 57%, then you would accumulate the bankroll. Many low-level poker and blackjack pros played part-time while they scrounged up session bankrolls and lost. But eventually they won and never looked back.

Also, "pay after you win" is not classic advantage play, it is classic scamdicapping. If the tout is winning at 53%, then his paying customers are losing. If you earn money and your "partners" lose, then you are not a professional bettor. The poker world had a lot of "professional" players who got publicity in the poker boom and then burned "investors" in staking deals. Bob's post displays no remorse or empathy for his losing customers and just brags about being clever to win so much with 53% picks. This also ignores those inevitable 47% seasons where customers lose a lot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kim Lee

Also, "pay after you win" is not classic advantage play, it is classic scamdicapping. If the tout is winning at 53%, then his paying customers are losing.

---

Is your assumption that the commissions are paid after each win?

Is that Integrity's business model?

My understanding is that the commissions are paid on the overall return, after the season concludes.

In that scenario, a losing season would require no commission to be paid.

And I'd expect that commission paid on a winning season, that turns a profit into a loss, wouldn't keep investors on board for another run, unless their overall return on investment from all previous seasons was positive.

Analogously, the S&P 500 has had individual losing years over the past 15, but no consecutive year-over-year period of any length that was negative. So folks remain invested in the index fund, just like the Oracle of Omaha advised.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coach belly

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

If the investor pays 10% on the 55 winning bets his return is $110 on $110 in action.

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In your scenario, the bettor wins 55% of his wagers, then pays 10% commission on the overall win, which brings him to net break-even for his total wager.

Is that correct?

Is it impossible, or even unlikely, that Integrity's actual combination of win rate & commission rate will produce whatever return that's projected by the advisor?

There must be an infinite number of combinations that are +EV.

But you can eliminate any combination that won't or can't produce a consistent positive return, because his investors would not participate under those conditions.

---

What I’m pointing out is that, in this configuration, the tout has to hit 55% for the investor to break even.

And when old investors wash out from losing….the continuous advertising brings in new investors. Rinse and repeat. And keep rinsing and repeating.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

What I’m pointing out is that, in this configuration, the tout has to hit 55% for the investor to break even.

And when old investors wash out from losing….the continuous advertising brings in new investors. Rinse and repeat. And keep rinsing and repeating.

---

Would Integrity Sports survive by offering investors a configuration whereby their profitable total wager results in break even, or a net loss, due to commissions paid to the advisor?

Surely his tenured group of MENSA investors would not continue to participate in that sort of arrangement...right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kim Lee

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redietz

Point Number One: The people who pick 57% winners in ...maybe 250-300 or thereabouts for basketball ... need a starting bankroll somewhere between 250K and 500K to make this work.

Point Number Two for all you "APs" out there: When a handicapper ... wins 53% of the time, depending on how many clients he has and what they are paying him, he has generated income as if he'd hit 55% or 58% or 60% or more. ... It's classic "AP" methodology.

---

I wanted to support Bob (redietz) as a long-time handicapper who tried to play it straight by having Integrity Sports monitored. I don't know how he paid his rent in Vegas, but he could have mixed betting with touting, shopping numbers and playing promotions in town, perhaps booking some bets on the side. He could also have had other sources of money.

I also wanted to warn that touting is a sleazy marketing business. Even if a tout starts with an edge, it inevitably deteriorates over time, and he is stuck selling worthless picks for the rest of his career. I studied monitored touts and found one guy who stopped his 60%+ winning NFL preseason service. He explained that he got coach's interviews from wire services. It was easy to handicap when you know one coach will sit his stars, while the other coach plans to let them play four quarters. When the internet made this information widely available, the tout lost his edge and stopped the service. Wow, that was honest!

But this money management nonsense is annoying. A 57% Kelly bettor should bet 10% of his bankroll at -110. Haralabos Voulgaris made millions betting NBA totals. There are plenty of losing gamblers who find time to handicap, gamble, and post on internet forums. If you could really hit 57%, then you would accumulate the bankroll. Many low-level poker and blackjack pros played part-time while they scrounged up session bankrolls and lost. But eventually they won and never looked back.

Also, "pay after you win" is not classic advantage play, it is classic scamdicapping. If the tout is winning at 53%, then his paying customers are losing. If you earn money and your "partners" lose, then you are not a professional bettor. The poker world had a lot of "professional" players who got publicity in the poker boom and then burned "investors" in staking deals. Bob's post displays no remorse or empathy for his losing customers and just brags about being clever to win so much with 53% picks. This also ignores those inevitable 47% seasons where customers lose a lot.

---

Red talked up Kim Lee a couple different times. But I don't think THIS post is what Red was looking to hear. "Touting is a sleazy business". "If a player could really hit 57%, he would accumulate a bankroll, bet Kelly and never look back" (betting without the tout service). A lot of the same thing mickeycrimm and myself have been saying. And the remarkable part is that I did not really have a conversation with Kim Lee about this or even suggest what my opinion was.

Next we will hear from Red is that Kim Lee doesn't know what he is talking about, despite that he just talked him up as an academic, which Red puts on a pedestal. I actually don't know much about that part of Kim Lee. I only know him as a savvy, gambler/AP who knows his shit and when it came to playing, thought and acted outside the box, leading to great success in Gambling/advantage play.

Thanks for your thoughts Kim Lee. Sorry, it involved a trip back to this cesspool of a forum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

I don't mind kewlJ's stories about himself being challenged.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MDawg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

I don't mind kewlJ's stories about himself being challenged.

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No one minds it. Where else we gonna get rapid-fire backtracking, Swiss cheese-like explanations, and the ever-present serial lying that accompany every studder-laden make-believe AP story?