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Are you going to tell me that you suspended me? That never occurred to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnceDear
You are mistaken.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
If so I owe Mike a massive apology and you have a whole lot of KJ wrath heading your way.
I only know it's possible because I watched it on media:Quote:
Originally Posted by monet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeYElDkpDSQ
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-...rds-agreement/Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJAre you going to tell me that you suspended me? That never occurred to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnceDearYou are mistaken.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
If so I owe Mike a massive apology and you have a whole lot of KJ wrath heading your way.
Oncedear said,"You are mistaken," because your thread was NOT removed at all and is still intact in its entirety..... Because I am NOT a complete Idiot, I will even copy and paste your OP....
April 9th, 2021 at 8:36:21 PMpermalink
Quote:
Wizard
An agreement has been negotiated between MDawg and Kewlj. Here are the terms, which both parties have agreed to.
1. This thread has been moved to the "Betting Systems" category.
2. Kewlj will stay out of this thread. He may not comment on it in other threads. If Mdawg posts in another thread, Kewlj may address that post only wherever it may be located.
I will be enforcing this agreement. However, I trust both parties to be men of their words and go their separate ways.
Last week I agreed to these terms. I am now asking for a re-consideration. Since there is another thread started on the same or related topic, the meetup, I could skirt the rule by continuing to participate in that thread and frequent bumping. I am choosing not to do that, instead, I hope you will allow me to make my case, followed by a fair re-consideration
First, was this really "negotiated"? You suggested I accept or be suspended.
The thread in question represents, the top thread on this forum by volume BY FAR. Would you tell a new member he can join the forum, but not participate in the most active thread? Of course not. If I say something that violates rules, I should receive a suspension, just like everyone else, not be censored from the most active thread on the forum, a thread of which the topic, a player misleading members happens to be of paramount importance to me. My comments aren't personal to the poster, it is the content of his posts that I wish to express my opinion about. Since he CONTINUES to post these misleading comments, I should be able to CONTINUE to express my doubt, just like every other member.
We all know this arrangement came because you were contacted privately and asked to remove me from his thread. But as Axelwolf so rightly stated today, this is not "his" thread. He started the thread. After that it is a general discussion thread open to everyone....or SHOULD BE.
If the poster that started the thread requires a place where he has control, over who says what, don't you provide for that in the 'Blog section'? You (Wizard) should not be protecting him by silencing people at his request. Members should be allowed to fairly express their opinions, including doubts and since he adds to or makes new claims almost every day, we should be able to repeatedly do the same
Again, I am not asking for any special treatment. I am asking for the same treatment as anyone else, to express my opinion and doubts about a topic important to me. And if I say something worthy of suspension, I accept that. Although that too should be real and not somebody, continually PMing you requesting anyone and everyone that expresses a negative opinion be suspended. He is making the claims that 20 some members have expressed doubt about. The onus is on him to make his case, and shouldn't be about limiting anyone's right to express their doubt.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-.../2/#post802205
That OnceDear is one Power Tripping Mother Fucker, eh?
No way OD is English.
That Mother Fucker is a straight out Nazi.
Hail Shackleford!!
Well ain't that some shit! It was Oncedear. I do owe Mike an apology. Although he could have stepped in. But I do apologize to Mike. (see how that works when you are wrong about something).
Oncedear, I don't dislike you. I enjoy your sense of humor and you always treated me fairly, or so I thought. But this was a bullshit call. Nothing in that thread was trolling of Mike, nor certainly not you, which was listed on my suspension. It had nothing to do with you. It was a respectful asking of Mike to reconsider and I laid out my 3 or 4 points. All he had to do was say no if he didn't agree.
The fact that the thread was "hidden" rather than removed is a small distinction. It was removed from view for most people unless they went digging and for the reasons I stated, because a few people were agreeing with me and I guess my points made sense. Otherwise, why would you remove it from view. It is ironic in that, removal from view is what I thought I was getting out of the Mdawg deal.
Why did you think you needed to jump in and take action. It wasn't about you, it was about Mike. BBB used to do that shit. Over-step! Like you guys feel you need to protect Mike or something. Mike is a big boy and all he had to do was say no to a request for re-consideration.
So while I apologize to Mike for thinking and saying it was him, the result remains the same. I am suspended for simply asking for a re-consideration and making my points? That forum is fucking too much, and some of you mods seem to abuse the power given to you. Not only that but now you are looking the other way, on obvious sock puppets for Mdawgshit. What a fucking forum!
Oh boy. Didn’t Kewlj find reasons to reconsider a previous agreement to avoid in the original squabble about Qshit? And he also quit posting here and always comes back, also discloses contents of PM’s received on WoV on this forum. Guys word is his bond..... this is a pattern dude, you will find whatever reasons you can to believe you are being treated unfairly, you have to see the well is poisoned and mods will always be a little skeptical of your motives given the pattern established, even if you were right ten years ago when it started is simply not relevant now.
Seriously this is like 10 years on of whining about WoV and flip flopping about whining, wanting to come back, leaving....it’s just a fucking Internet forum fuck man, just give it up, you’ve got a legit problem with it.
Good Video.Quote:
Originally Posted by tableplay
I've seen similar live shows.
I like when they do tables and chairs and spin them.
It must take some serious practice and concentration.
Next thing these guys are going to tell us is that Richard Turner is Fake and isn't blind and can't manipulate a deck of cards.
Ricky Jay was Fake too.
Oh and by the way... Richard Turner went blind around the age of 10 to make what he does even a bit more incredible.
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Originally Posted by mcap
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Originally Posted by MDawgIndecisive?
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Originally Posted by MDawg
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Originally Posted by kewlJ
https://i.imgur.com/qU8WA1St.png
CHECK!
Unable to maintain resolve?
https://i.imgur.com/HipmOsBh.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
https://i.imgur.com/qU8WA1St.png
CHECK!
Having the inability to not speak on a thought - in this case to not speak on his uncontrollable fixation on MDawg?
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Originally Posted by MDawg
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Originally Posted by kewlJ
https://i.imgur.com/qU8WA1St.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
CHECK!
Hey Mdouche, I was reading the great Mdawg fairytale over at WoV in the LOSING BETTING SYSTEM section, when I noticed darkOz, step in to put up the $2500 that EV pulled out of, so it appears all systems are go on that alternative contest that really is has nothing to do with witnessing your actual play as described in the great fairytale.
So my question is why is it necessary for you and Mike to get paid for this witnessing of your play? If you get paid it is on, if you don't get paid it is off?
YOU should want to show the whole world and the 27 people listed that they are wrong and you are right and Mike should want to get to the bottom of this so as to stop making a mockery of his forum. Yet both are only willing to do so, if they get paid. Something scammy about that right there!
Not only was the whole thing a massive overreaction on your part, but now you also look like an asshole. Good on you for apologizing, though. Next time make sure your ducks are all in a row; you'll be lucky if none of the ne'er do wells floating around these forums (no names) don't direct Wizard to your posts here. Again, I would never do that, but I'd get my ass to editing if I were you.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
The only bullshit call was letting you back on WoV, well, and you getting Nuked to begin with, I suppose. In the Forum sense, you have become ridiculously volatile. You were great when you were getting the respect that comes from being one of the more prolific posters, but as soon as things didn't go your way, you lost it. I'm just relieved that you have more discipline than that (at least, it seems) in your life outside of the Forums as a card counter---or you would be fucked.
Anyway, you just throw your toys around like a petulant six-year old when you don't get your way about something. I don't mean to harp on this---and I'll only offer additional responses on this line if you respond to this post---but you've really got to start trying to get more information and other perspectives on things before coming to your assumptions and losing your shit.
Do you merely apologize for what you said, or do you now no longer mean some of it? Is there some of it you didn't mean to begin with?
Anyway, if you want to regain the respect you once had at WoV, then may I suggest become one of the most prolific posters again? Let's get some new Blackjack threads out of you. Let's get some threads about the weirdest things people have seen while AP'ing. Threads about the most unusual AP's we have known (without naming them) or the strangest things that we have seen in casinos.
Whether you like it or not, MDawg's thread is actually a good thread to the extent that it generates traffic and conversation. The detractors add to the traffic and conversation. I don't think that there's anything nefarious going on when it comes to ownership wanting to keep MDawg around---do you know HOW MANY sites they run with a fairly small team? I tend to think they'd be too busy to care about WoV very much. WoO is the money driver. I can't imagine ownership cares whether MDawg stays or goes and, for all I know, ownership hasn't even ever looked at that thread.
Anyway, if you want MDawg's thread buried, then do it by creating better and more interesting threads. That's all. You guys want to shut him down and then what will be going on at WoV, more cooking threads?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Well, I'm tech challenged, it's true, but I tried to find that thread by kewlJ and could not. So hidden for me was the same as removed.
Now OnceDear, who previously I had a high opinion of (in no small part because he/she nominated a post of mine for post of the year), has also gone the route of publicly rooting for the EV/MDawg challenge to proceed in a manner that would in no way guarantee that it would look like the many sessions MDawg has written about. And then he/she suspends kewlJ for a thread that basically calls out Shackleford for a misdirection play regarding the kewlJ/Shackleford/MDawg posting agreement.
So here's what I've learned:
OnceDear appears to be overhooked on legalese. Oncedear has made some legalese arguments that might hold up with a judge but not a jury. By that I mean, OnceDear tried to jam a definition on the word "can" in an EV post that the average reader would not necessarily and frankly not likely apply. "Can" in the context used was clearly meant as a "must," and OnceDear argued otherwise. Then OnceDear, by suspending kewlJ, held kewlJ to Shackleford's unstated interpretation of the agreement while not checking with kewlJ to see if he had the same assumptions as Shackleford. Just like OnceDear held EV to OnceDear's unstated interpretation of the MDawg agreement without checking to see if those assumptions were shared by EV.
Most average readers would not, I argue, have interpreted things as OnceDear did. And even if my "most" were somehow wrong, I guarantee that a large percentage of readers would not interpret those lines as OnceDear did.
In other words, OnceDear is reading things narcissistically and acting on his/her idiosyncratic interpretations of things. When you're writing for an audience, you just can't do that. Mission, for example, has never done that in anything that I've read. He goes the other way, almost being overly precise and making sure everyone is on board with agreed definitions.
I've read enough paranormal debunking (and done a tad myself), that I know the so-called agreements in the MDawg/EV/Shackleford thing were a mess. Just as they almost always are when (1) you have paranormal claimants and (2) you have novices, in this case people like Shackleford and Oncedear, interpreting first versions of alleged agreements through their own eyes without consulting an editor, a math-in-the-field advisor, or a magician. Any magician would have instantly told you that the EV/Mdawg agreements were crap as written.
The trick to Randi's Million Dollar Challenge was all in the writing of the challenges. They had to be legally precise, scientifically precise, and allow no wiggle room. That's why, when presented with the final contracts, the claimants literally always backed out or failed.
Let me know how to find that thread.
The problem with your theory, Mission, is that I already tried that, and MisterV already tried that, but we were shot down as being "parodies," and our threads removed, and we were suspended.
And my thread was just about entirely true!
We already had this discussion here. It's easy as pie to invent better, more far-fetched (mathematically) adventures. We talked about flooding WoV with a machine guy, a sports guy, a blackjack guy, all with wilder wins and sexier adventures than MDawg.
But Shackleford won't allow it.
So the question is, if MDawg wins 50 sessions in a row, and Shackleford allows it, why won't he allow me to post "The Adventures of Me" where I win 25 weeks in a row? Do you really think a thread with me winning 25 weeks in a row is any more unbelievable than MDawg winning 50 consecutive times? Do the math.
Go ahead, Mission, let's hear your explanation.
I don't mean to have a thread that is meant to be parodic or to copy the posting style. I'll probably start a thread or two in the next day or two just to give an example of what I mean. I should be more focused on doing the writing that results in wire transfers, but if I can find a few minutes to bullshit in these threads, then I can certainly also do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
Anyway, I'm not suggesting countering, "Far-fetched," threads with other far-fetched threads. I'm talking about creating interesting threads about things that we have witnessed. Again, the fact that betting systems don't work...how many times does it need to be said? I think, conservatively, some variant of that has been written 10,000 times between WoV and WoO. I'm not even being hyperbolic. If someone wants to ignore all of that to find some Baccarat system, then there's really nothing I or anyone else can do for them. They are going to seek out what they want to read---and what they want to read is that there's an easy way to win at gambling, so easy, in fact, that mathematical concepts are irrelevant and not necessary to know.
In other words, some people are going to be dumb asses. I can try to help with that a little bit, but I simply haven't the time to devote hours to countering one thread.
As far as your thread goes, was it or was it not to be mocking and/or parodic? That's not a trap question. My response legitimately depends on your answer.
Holy fuck all is Richard Turner talented (Ricky Jay was too - look up Renaissance Man in the dictionary and you'll see his picture in the margin next to the definition of the term). Yes another great example you provided of you wouldn't believe it unless you saw it. Final verdict on dice control - I would not dismiss the possibility after seeing how talented some people are.Quote:
Originally Posted by monetGood Video.Quote:
Originally Posted by tableplay
I've seen similar live shows.
I like when they do tables and chairs and spin them.
It must take some serious practice and concentration.
Next thing these guys are going to tell us is that Richard Turner is Fake and isn't blind and can't manipulate a deck of cards.
Ricky Jay was Fake too.
Oh and by the way... Richard Turner went blind around the age of 10 to make what he does even a bit more incredible.
Redietz, the thread by KewlJ can be found on the General Discussion page.
Meanwhile, I cannot find the second latest take-off version of the MDawg thread. I am not sure that the moderators combined the two threads into one.
One thing is clear. None of you guys have any friends in real life.
A frustrating thing about the Wiz's position on allowing MotherfuckingDawg to post his fantasy BS is that it is the antithesis of what that place once stood for, 'the lair of the math boyz."
It's like giving front and center stage to a member of the "flat earth society" at a convention of cosmologists and astronomers.
I fear the new owners are telling the Wiz to do whatever it takes to attract more eyeballs to the site, even if what it takes is a train filled with two-headed calves careening off a bridge and bursting into flames on a convent in the valley below.
OK. What I'd do is find any post by kewlj then click on his name to see his profile.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
https://wizardofvegas.com/member/kewlj/
Then click on the link to his list of posts, and seek out the last one. Then scroll down that thread to where I suspended him and my reason for doing so..
Basically, UNKewlJ gave away his birthright for a bowl of cold porridge when he excluded himself from my thread in exchange for having my thread moved to a different section. I knew moving it would have absolutely no effect and didn't care, so I readily agreed.
I refer to it as a birthright only because he cares so much about posting about MDawg. He is what makes this so amusing, that he cares so much.
At the same time, I assume the last straw was when the UnKewl one was whining about that I posted some chips that were not from my current trip. Wizard got tired of dealing with UnKewl's trolling and ratting and wanted him out of that thread.
Once again, as with some others, if UNKewl had just kept his mouth shut Wizard would have thought UnKewl was a horse and let him through.
https://i.imgur.com/nlUvhZ0m.jpg
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Originally Posted by MisterV
I don't? That's news to me. I can name at least three.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjb
But but, MODERATION in MODERATION !!....Lol at Comrade Dietz he/she comment. I think its a safe bet OnceDear is a he.Quote:
Originally Posted by monet
That's an interesting thought when you look at it from that angle. Could there not, perhaps, be some benefit in someone presenting a counter-position (and account) to what people claim the site, "Stands for?" Without allowing for opposing discourse to take place, all a person (or people) is doing is preaching unopposed.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Besides that, you guys would have MDawg censored based on the substance and angle of what he his discussing in his one thread. That's unfair. Argue against him all day long and that's perfectly fine, but unless you want to go with the very sparingly used Rule #20, once again, I don't see what rule MDawg's posting violates. You're an attorney, MrV, so as you should know---sometimes rules/codes/laws have unintended consequences, but you've just got to deal with them until the rule/code/law is changed.
On that note, maybe you could recall, I seem to think there was a case that went to SCOTUS once about a new law being created, but the law was such as to specifically adversely impact one individual person. I happened upon that case one day and I wish like hell I could remember what it was.
Anyway, the point is, discussion of betting systems has always been allowed. Trip reports have always been allowed. To disallow for the first would require a new rule, to Nuke for the second would require (and this is only arguably) the trip report(s) to be proven false while still keeping within the rules in one's attempt to do so.
In other words, sometimes you tie your own hands.
Anyway, you guys are all full of shit when it comes to conjecture about the owners. What was my Baccarat advice in that thread, partially, "The best way to play Baccarat is not to play Baccarat."
I'll say the same thing about any negative expectation game. The best way to play is not to. Do you think I'd still be getting paid by the owners if they didn't want people to post the truth on there? I'm literally on the site telling people that it's best NOT to gamble, but gamble within your means if you are going to.
Again, and this is coming from someone who actually works for them and isn't just spouting unfounded bullshit, the impression I get when it comes to WoV is that what happens, happens. I really don't think that site is anywhere near the top of their priorities.
So let me get this straight. You call us out with certainty, that were full of shit about Rusty and the Serbs, but refuse to state that Dog, is full of shit. You've been walking on eggshells and tap dancing, refusing to call out his bullshit. You are one of the guys that knows better, shame on you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mission146That's an interesting thought when you look at it from that angle. Could there not, perhaps, be some benefit in someone presenting a counter-position (and account) to what people claim the site, "Stands for?" Without allowing for opposing discourse to take place, all a person (or people) is doing is preaching unopposed.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Besides that, you guys would have MDawg censored based on the substance and angle of what he his discussing in his one thread. That's unfair. Argue against him all day long and that's perfectly fine, but unless you want to go with the very sparingly used Rule #20, once again, I don't see what rule MDawg's posting violates. You're an attorney, MrV, so as you should know---sometimes rules/codes/laws have unintended consequences, but you've just got to deal with them until the rule/code/law is changed.
On that note, maybe you could recall, I seem to think there was a case that went to SCOTUS once about a new law being created, but the law was such as to specifically adversely impact one individual person. I happened upon that case one day and I wish like hell I could remember what it was.
Anyway, the point is, discussion of betting systems has always been allowed. Trip reports have always been allowed. To disallow for the first would require a new rule, to Nuke for the second would require (and this is only arguably) the trip report(s) to be proven false while still keeping within the rules in one's attempt to do so.
In other words, sometimes you tie your own hands.
Anyway, you guys are all full of shit when it comes to conjecture about the owners. What was my Baccarat advice in that thread, partially, "The best way to play Baccarat is not to play Baccarat."
I'll say the same thing about any negative expectation game. The best way to play is not to. Do you think I'd still be getting paid by the owners if they didn't want people to post the truth on there? I'm literally on the site telling people that it's best NOT to gamble, but gamble within your means if you are going to.
Again, and this is coming from someone who actually works for them and isn't just spouting unfounded bullshit, the impression I get when it comes to WoV is that what happens, happens. I really don't think that site is anywhere near the top of their priorities.
I'm not calling you out; it's the same standard. Evidence, or it's bullshit conjecture. Anytime someone says anything about the owners' motivations, unless there are discussions behind the scenes I don't know about, (and it's not like many people on these sites are terribly skilled at keeping private things private---hell, you'll get cancelled for doing that---before cancel culture was even a thing) it's pure conjecture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzy
I'm not suggesting that people don't have the right to their conjecture; people can say whatever they want to say. I'm simply suggesting that I actually have some experience with talking to ownership and management (other than Wizard) and so my conjecture, I would assume, is slightly better.
Anyway, I tend to defer to people who have more insight on a subject than I do. There's no need for you or anyone else to do so if you don't wish. Carry on.
Were MuffdivingDawg to limit his discussion to a betting system that would be fine, but he doesn't.
He insults our intelligence by claiming he never loses.
He gives himself props by posting pictures of money, chips, and possibly fake Rolex watches.
He regales the board with unlikely / essentially impossible tales of tipping, winning and being comped: and the owners of the site not only allow it, they seem to lap it up, much as a cat will eat its own vomit (I saw my cat vomit a grasshopper it had eaten, then eat it again a day later, after it had dried out).
Weird scenes inside the gold mine ...
And this is how people are suppose to view threads at WoV? Search out by poster? News flash if the thread is not in that top 10 on main board, no one is reading. No one is finding it. You got me (and others from the response) on the technicality that you "hid" the thread. And "hid" is your word. I see no difference between hiding and removing.Quote:
Originally Posted by OnceDearOK. What I'd do is find any post by kewlj then click on his name to see his profile.Quote:
Originally Posted by redietz
https://wizardofvegas.com/member/kewlj/
Then click on the link to his list of posts, and seek out the last one. Then scroll down that thread to where I suspended him and my reason for doing so..
I made analogies about both blackjack (super-duper count and 5% advantage) and Roulette (martingale) as examples of topics that would immediately be debunked by membership AND MANAGEMENT, and yet these claims by Mgoof are not only allowed to stand, but those challenging are often suspended or in my case asked to "agree" not to participate in that discussion. I mean come on. It would be like if you started suspending or seeking agreements for everyone who challenges 18 y.o.'s in a row.
All I can say is WoV is not what WoV was. I suppose you can say that about many forums, but with WoV, it is everything the forum was about and stood for, is gone. It has just been flipped on it's head. Now the forum is a game, trolling, guys like coach belly who ONLY troll on multiple forums. Guys like Mdawg who is this whole thing is about making a mockery of WoV and people seeing if they can play by the ever-changing rules right up to the line, enticing others to get suspended. That is what it is a game, not a legitimate forum about gambling and making gamblers better informed gamblers.
There are so many other smaller details that are also bullshit that haven't even been discussed or lightly discussed.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
I did lightly discuss the bullshit about being banned at blackjack at 2 casinos and then reinstated later. Mission came to Mdawgs defense, with some obscure circumstance that this has occurred. But basically there is one scenario that this will occur and that is if the player is a losing player much, much bigger at some other game.
Now lets talk about almost every single day the pit compliments Mdawg on his play and tells him "he is the best player they have ever seen". Does anyone know how a pit managers job works? They are responsible for for their tables. they are graded on what the hold is for the tables, whether the tables report a win or loss. Now they are not going to get fired because some guy wins. That happens everyday. It is called variance. The casinos experience it just the same as every player (except Mdawg) experiences it. But while they won't get fired, it is not good for them to have tables that report a loss every day. So even if Mdawg was just the luckiest guy in the world, they are not going to be happy to see him and toast him like he is the king of the town.
There are just so many pieces that doesn't fit, but we are supposed to stand there, with a guys dick out and pee running down our leg and accept that it is raining. And now Oncedear is telling us we should ignore that dick with a stream of pee to our leg, because it is good reading and brings "views". That is the new WoV.
I fixed it. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Mission146I don't? That's news to me. I can name at least three.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjb
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So speaking of pieces of the puzzle that doesn't fit, these are the times (Las Vegas time) of Mdawgs posts yesterday at 2 forums, WoV and here. He posts on several more.....only counting up these 2.
You guys are gamblers and have visits to Las Vegas. Anybody else spend the day locked in your high end luxury suite in Las Vegas posting on an internet forums every few minutes for basically 17 hours? :confused: This is NOT the itinerary of a high end Vegas player in a high end Vegas comped suite. This is the day of a complete narcissist.
And yes, to be fair, I posted 16 times yesterday, 6 times in a 1 hour 22 minute period around lunch and 10 times in a 3 hour window from 8:31pm to 11:34 pm while watching TV in my home in the evening.
Ok, lunch break is over, back to work.
I always knew DarkOz is dumb as rocks. But Wtf??Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
He's donating money to MDog and Wiz??...lmao
What are the conditions for this? I don't want to wade thru all the pathetic crap over there to find out.
Thanks for posting those time stamps, KJ: for me that is the final nail on that imposter's coffin, so to speak.
When I was working I NEVER posted on gambling forums from my office; I might come home for lunch (lived close by) and post but I was professional enough to compartmentalize work from recreation.
Plus I was busy and didn't want to fuck around with this stuff while earning my daily bread.
Oh, and the idea that he'd be able to stay in Las Vegas months at a time and not work is just beyond hysterically funny.
The fact that DawgShit posts as claimed establishes to me that he's a fraud: were he in fact a successful, wealthy as hell newly minted lawyer as he claims he'd be in his office working for himself and / or for his firm, not participating in his ongoing attempts to sully and essentially bring down WoV.
Gotta give that troll points for persistence, if nothing else.
That is why I withdrew, being suspended? Who cares. The conditions were such that it could have been manipulated. If there was a play by play for each hand then there is a record. Otherwise does anyone think wizard would spot 1k extra chip? Commission wrong? No way. Just add up the bets and do the math yourself. Dawg could have signed off on the results and boom, you have a real record. Not only that , look at what he posted today, that he Isn’t going to bite the hand that feeds him? Are you serious? I made that offer because I figured it was a trivial amount for him. Now I’m starting to think he either had someone backing him, or the like. Darkoz even asked for an exact number win or lose and dawg swatted at him. If you notice he keeps repeating that the wizard will record how he sees fit. Hogwash. If anyone cares enough to go on truth passage you will see how dawg explains how he wins with patterns in his own words. If that’s the case, which is isn’t , then just post the record with the pattern. Just like the casino does on the virtual scoreboard. Not only to they give you pen and paper. They list the patterns in 3-5 ways or more depending on the type of board.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
This is why I kept pushing for an exact bet list. The pm I sent meant nothing . I said I was willing to post to mimic him just to show it doesn’t work.
Which of the two are you talking about? It seems that the obsessions run in both directions.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
LOL
I was referring to the rabid chihuahua, not the poodle.
No doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by tableplay
Richard Turner is currently a 6th degree Black Belt I believe.
He also has done many other things other than manipulate cards.
Pretty close to Super Human or at least Above Average.
Not sure about his Mob Stories as he could be embellishing.
Not sure about his wholesome image as he seems to be able to always refuse/defeat temptation.
He did have a dark period with drugs and what so it isn't impossible to believe that he just saw the light and never turned back.
Some rare individuals do have that strength.
About manipulating dice...
that is a proven fact.
A couple of the problems are how often can it be replicated inside a Casino Situation and how long before you get barred?
I think the major issue is the idea that some Average Joe can learn how to do it in a short period of time and be able to change the frequency of a 7 showing up.
That is the whole point to the so called talent.
The people selling books, videos and boot camps are obviously scamming.
Notice the difference between them and the David Blaine Story.
They say you can learn it for a certain dollar amount and a short period of time.
The David Blaine Story is more realistic.
15 hours a day throwing dice for 10 years.
This is what something like that would require IMO.
And the idea of infiltrating the other side of the fence to learn what they concentrate on in the security aspect.
That has changed a lot in the last 10 to 20 years.
Some Casinos have serious technology.
Other Casinos still don't have many of the cameras hooked up.
Pick your battles as usual.
Always fun to have these conversations hidden inside of all this jibber jabber.
Thanks for taking the time to respond tableplay.
I'm guilty of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjb
I can teach you all how to lose friends and alienate people.
How many people have real or true friends though?
If you have one friend that would go through thick and thin and die for you that would be a true friend.
That's very Fucking Rare.
Ironically, that is what a real friend is.
There is no greater love than laying down your life for a friend.
Not even sure my wife would do this for me or vice versa.
My mind is more focused on this though.
10 years ago, no chance in Hell I would but these days I am certainly closer to save, protect or die for her.
I have been getting better for the last 37 years but it has been a very slow process.
The problem is that I'm starting to get too old for these types of things to matter.
You certainly want to start out in your youth with these sort of things ingrained into you.
Most of you think you have friends but in reality you have acquaintances that would turn their back on you in a moments notice.
It's the whole point of room 101 and 1984.
"Do it to Julia! Do it to Julia! Not me! Julia! I don't care what you do to her. Tear her face off, strip her to the bones. Not me! Julia!
Again, I tend to doubt that the owners of the site pay any specific attention to his threads. As far as the content of his posts is concerned, I can't help but notice you can't cite any specific rule that they might be breaking. Even if the owners didn't want him there, then it would be a ban just because of the situation being a nuisance. You've got half of the people who DO bitch about him staying, you'll have the other half bitching and claiming how unfair it is if he gets Nuked.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
The ownership (meaning, above Wizard) does the smartest thing that they could do, from what I can tell, they don't even get involved on this one. These guys are very kind people, (in my experience) but they're also very professional and are focused on SEO. Given the focus on SEO...yeah, I'm sure they'll take the page views...but you'll notice that politics is no longer permitted there. I don't know if that was a decision made by Wizard or the owners, but the point is, if they ONLY cared about traffic, then they wouldn't have got rid of the politics threads.
You guys must all be Millennials considering how much you all seem to want MDawg cancelled. That's not to say I don't if something is proven, but you don't censor people on conjecture. It's a pretty simple principle that most people are willing to apply, easily enough, when it comes to keeping something/someone they do like.
Oh, you're breaking down individual members.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mission146
Do Me Next!
Do Me Next!
Wait a second... that sounds pretty Fucking Gay.
Don't do me, don't do me.
You’re just jealous I’ve been chatting with babes online all day.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mission
Oh great, another convert to the "Sure,anybody can have more than fifty successful baccarat sessions in a row" club.
*Bronx cheer*
Mission, the guy is clearly a troll given his claims are ridiculous.
My scenario was that I was actually able to talk to the guy I needed to talk to. The casino in question would not show me as losing, so don't even try that line. They wouldn't show me as a big anything. Small-time player, wins somewhat. I was definitely winning there, just more than my card would look like because I didn't do any vulturing on my card, just worked the free play. The way their free play was set up is that you could maintain your offers with not very much play, so it was slight profitable and I was going to be vulturing there anyway. I also liked all of the free alcoholic beverage vouchers that I got because my fiancee (then girlfriend) and I would stay in a nearby hotel and the casino had a free shuttle to and from.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Anyway, I'd go in and vulture with no card (which is where the vast majority of the profits were) and would maintain pickups that I think were $60 per pick up that could sometimes be combined with supplemental small offers and kiosk pick a prize things at an expected loss on the action to maintain those pick ups of about $30. IOW, whatever I made vulturing plus an expected +$58 (roughly, not counting supplemental offers) in exchange for an expected loss of about $30 and I was driving right past there twice a week anyway.
Purely small-time stuff. I made about $200/week there, but I was managing a hotel full-time at the time, so that was a nice little weekly add for somewhere I'm driving right by anyway.
So, why was I unbanned?
1.) The Security Director (who I was able to talk to a few times) was perfectly fine with me being unbanned, but said I had to talk to the Marketing Director because it was his department that was impacted by what was going on. She said that there wasn't anything illegal about what I had been doing there, but it was a marketing department decision.
2.) Covid-19 happened, prior to that, the guy hadn't responded to my E-Mails or occasional phone messages at all. Then, Covid, and the casino itself was closed. He answered his phone on the second ring, didn't know who it was, of course. I am a friendly and polite person. He said that I could come back, but I'd better never have cards that are in any name but mine on me ever again.
Anyway, there you go. It had also been four or five years...I can't remember if this was in 2015 or 2016. I think 2016.
I know you set me up to post this clip.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcap
I fell for it but I'm an addict.
The quote starts at about 1:01 of the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZJrGuC92U8
You?Quote:
Originally Posted by monet
You're a wealth of AP knowledge and you're fucking hilarious. I hope that we're able to hang out one day so you can shit all over me on the Forums, too. I feel left out sometimes.
I'll agree to a meet up but it has to be in your neck of the woods.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mission146
Some ideal places to meet up and they are my old stomping grounds.
Ohiopyle
Mammoth Park
Twin Lakes
Confluence
Monongahela River
Yough River... yes it is the Youghiogheny River but people in the know call it the Yough... don't have to tell you, I'm sure.
Monessen
Ligonier... the river on the way to Idlewild... beside the bridge with the whirlpools where they don't let you drive across anymore.
You know... on the way up to Linn Run.
Where that bar/hotel burned down a couple a times and they rebuilt it.
Used to be called Sleepy Hollow... probably still is or Ichabods.
or... Smithton Beach.
Requirements are at least a full weekend of fishing and camping.
Shit, shoot me a PM when you'll be around! I'm down with fishing and camping...in a cabin...with electricity. Internet connection not required...preferably not, in fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by monetI'll agree to a meet up but it has to be in your neck of the woods.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mission146
Some ideal places to meet up and they are my old stomping grounds.
Ohiopyle
Mammoth Park
Twin Lakes
Confluence
Monongahela River
Yough River... yes it is the Youghiogheny River but people in the know call it the Yough... don't have to tell you, I'm sure.
Monessen
Ligonier... the river on the way to Idlewild
or... Smithton Beach.
Requirements are at least a full weekend of fishing and camping.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMQljufX8G0
Back in the 80s my father, uncles and I fished this River more times than I can remember.
You turn left and go down the hill at the entrance and you used to be able to cross the bridge with whirlpools.
Pussy!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mission146
You know you made that requirement just to get me to back out.
Sort of like all the bets with Rob Singer and MDawg.
Always some stipulation to make the other party not agree :)
I'd have to say that I'd have a small preference for either Ligonier or OhioPyle/Yough area.
Ligonier just because we can always drive along 30 through the mountains if the fish aren't biting one day, that's a really nice drive. The wind farm is also kind of neat to look at driving as it just kind of pops up out of nowhere and seems to stretch for miles.
OhioPyle just because I'm already familiar with it. We could hit up Lady Luck, but I promise there's barely a point of even walking in that one. The Meadows isn't ridiculously far away, but the only thing there, really is Ultimate X and Must-Hits. The Island would be about an hour and a half from there, so not worth the drive and there's one guy that tends to be there in the evenings that Joe taught all the plays to, so the only good vulturing time is when we'd be fishing.
Although, screw the casinos anyway unless we get really bored. Around dusk? I'll take staring at a fire and bullshitting over stupid vulturing anytime!
I didn't say you had to be in a cabin with electricity. We can pay our own way if you don't want the cabin treatment. I'll have the other bed made for when the mosquitoes get to you and you change your mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by monetPussy!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mission146
You know you made that requirement just to get me to back out.
Sort of like all the bets with Rob Singer and MDawg.
Always some stipulation to make the other party not agree :)
I have cans of OFF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mission146
That is all that is needed.
Spray that shit all over you and eat it.
Fun.
Just did that when I went out to Lake Mead.
Not many bugs but a few flies were pestering me.
They got the Bug Spray and so did I.
Route 30... I know it like the back of my hand and I haven't been on it since the early 90s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mission146
Great Area really.
I'm getting all nostalic.
Wish I had something like that near Vegas.
So many spots in PA just to go for the day and enjoy the scenery, water and air.
Great Place to live but Fuck the Property Taxes are impossible to deal with.
If and when I do go back to PA I certainly have no interest in going to the Casinos of any sort.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mission146
It's been so long and too many memories for me.
We are talking about where I grew up till about 16/17 years old.
I just wouldn't have any time for anything related to Casinos.
Damn You!
Western Pennsylvania has to be one of the greatest places on Earth.
I've been all over the States and only Oregon can really compete.
I've also been all through New England but something special about PA.
Probably because I grew up there.
Meh. Glad to rent. I did home ownership once, never again.Quote:
Originally Posted by monet
That said, I think I'll move to Vermont after my kids are adults. Probably Montpelier, or something. Hard to say what the traffic on the sites will look like by then, (my daughter turns ten this year, for reference) so I don't know if I'll still be writing or not. Even then, it's not like it's hard to get rooms, so I can be away for about a week every month just to keep up with the different machines and other stuff needed to be able to know what I'm talking about in my articles.
If something happens to the writing, then that's probably it for me and gambling, if the kids are adults by then. Vermont is a beautiful state and I LOVE walking in Winter. I'll literally spend ten hours just walking around town. I'll sometimes shovel driveways without even being asked just because I love being out in the cold. I'm perfectly content to live a dirt cheap existence, so going back into, "Traditional," work isn't something that concerns me. I'll get a, "Normal," job again. Hopefully something physical. I think that's why two million would last me forever.
The really nice thing about growing up poor is, in the rare event I have a good bit of money, I have no idea what to do with it. There's nothing that I want. The downside is that means I get lazy and do very close to nothing until my money runs out!
I'll say that we should definitely make time for a drive to Rocky Gap if we do go to Ohio Pyle. Not to go to the casino, we don't have to, but just because it is a gorgeous drive.Quote:
Originally Posted by monetIf and when I do go back to PA I certainly have no interest in going to the Casinos of any sort.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mission146
It's been so long and too many memories for me.
We are talking about where I grew up till about 16/17 years old.
I just wouldn't have any time for anything related to Casinos.
Damn You!
Western Pennsylvania has to be one of the greatest places on Earth.
I've been all over the States and only Oregon can really compete.
I've also been all through New England but something special about PA.
Probably because I grew up there.
My Family on my Mothers side all lived in or near Concord, NH.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mission146
My Great Grandfather, Grandfather and Great Uncle all built their own houses by hand.
Seriously... just the three of them, a saw and some tools.
They wanted to turn me into an Electrician back in the mid 90s.
Should of listened to them.
My Grandfather was a master plumber and ended up running a company in the last 25 years of his profession.
Great Grandfather was a master carpenter and a master at butchery.
They got two Moose Permits in the early/mid 90s and shot one on each hunt.
Really beat the odds getting Two Permits... my Great Grandfather hit both of the lotteries at that time.
I wasn't on the hunts but they say my Great Grandfather sliced up those animals with perfection and lightning fast.
I know that moose tasted really good... and we had over 100 pounds of it.
They had to divide it amongst 4 to 8 of them.
I'm not sure what my Great Uncle was because I didn't spend time with him.
Forget.
Master at some sort of Trade Profession though.
Those guys were Real Men and did Real Jobs meant for Men.
Anyways... the point of my story was that when I was 18 I drove a beat up old 79 Bonneville over the mountains of Vermont in a Snow Storm with bald tires lol.
No Fear but life was different back in that era and growing up in the East or PA in the 70s/80s.
You just learned how to do shit like that.
You bastard... I got to go... miss that shit... nostalgia!
LMAO Truepassage! Say hi to MLeus will ya.Quote:
Originally Posted by IvyleaguegradThat is why I withdrew, being suspended? Who cares. The conditions were such that it could have been manipulated. If there was a play by play for each hand then there is a record. Otherwise does anyone think wizard would spot 1k extra chip? Commission wrong? No way. Just add up the bets and do the math yourself. Dawg could have signed off on the results and boom, you have a real record. Not only that , look at what he posted today, that he Isn’t going to bite the hand that feeds him? Are you serious? I made that offer because I figured it was a trivial amount for him. Now I’m starting to think he either had someone backing him, or the like. Darkoz even asked for an exact number win or lose and dawg swatted at him. If you notice he keeps repeating that the wizard will record how he sees fit. Hogwash. If anyone cares enough to go on truth passage you will see how dawg explains how he wins with patterns in his own words. If that’s the case, which is isn’t , then just post the record with the pattern. Just like the casino does on the virtual scoreboard. Not only to they give you pen and paper. They list the patterns in 3-5 ways or more depending on the type of board.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
This is why I kept pushing for an exact bet list. The pm I sent meant nothing . I said I was willing to post to mimic him just to show it doesn’t work.
No problem sir - very interesting topic. So the way I would run it would be similar to the way a lot of guys run Blackjack: You have a big player come in to make the bets - the signaler/counter is flat betting. Analogously, the dice controller minimum bets against the dice controlled outcome (so minimum bet the Don't if you can and do make less sevens than expected and have the BP bet the pass line and/or place bet all the points - keeping them ON/working throughout the dice-controlled session).Quote:
Originally Posted by monet
You bastard Mission146.
I watch this video from time to time.
Wish the guy would make volume 2 or more of them.
I grew up in this town till the end of 6th grade.
You can see how poor I grew up as we lived in the Youngwood Hotel till the start of the 3rd grade.
Shown at 28 seconds of the video and still standing from what I understand.
Guess they got rid off all those cockroaches lol.
At 32 seconds in I used to go to that church for a few years till they had a Halloween Party in the lower level.
They couldn't convince me at 7/8 years old that dressing up like the Devil was a good thing or what God wanted in his house.
They literally tried to tell me that its ok to dress up like Demons or the Devil to scare the Devil???
Fuck that Noise!
I don't hide the fact that I came from nothing and am no good.
Boring Video for most of you but not for me.
I know all those places well.
My baseball team used to get ice cream after games at the Dairy Queen.
I remember when it first re-opened.
etc etc.
Good Times.
Park and Pool was the spot in the Summer for us rugrats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF9ulps-TzY
In your second post on this forum (above) you claimed the PM meant nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivyleaguegrad
In your first post here, you whined (again) about me not forwarding it for you.
You first started moaning about about it over on WOV...because it meant nothing.
No offense, BUT (<-;)), Mission makes this bizarre, double fuck comment and next thing you know monet's interest is peaked and they are making arrangements to spend a weekend in a cabin in the wilderness. Where do we send the engagement gifts. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mission146
This forum is gayer than some of the gay porn sites I visit. More closet cases than closet world.
Oh and let us not forget that Dice Tables are very different these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by tableplay
They have added a bunch of cushion under the felt which makes the dice bounce too much.
You need a table with the slate/wood only under the felt.
You want those dice to die when they land perfectly if you can make them land perfectly.
You can hear the difference when they smack the table.
It's a very distinct sound when they hit and die correctly.
I'm not certain someone could control them with the new table conditions and rules.
I suppose if someone can get a die to helicopter spin most of the time and spin a certain number it could be done.
The truth is someone out there has figured it out already but don't expect simpletons like myself to garner such knowledge.
Think about the back wall how it changed from flat to diamonds.
Much easier to work a table with a flat back wall and thick slate or wood only under the felt.
Why would the Casino change the rules, cushions and back walls if it wasn't possible to manipulate dice?
Just paranoia?
Doubt that.
I've been in some Casinos late at night in other states that use the half wall/table.
Some dealers would let you just drop the dice.
Tell me you can't manipulate or control dice when you just drop them!?
I've actually been in Vegas on graveyard and had dealers let me just slide them.
Shit Happens.
I don't play much and I certainly can't manipulate them but like I say my best pal for years played dice all the time.
I got into it for awhile, studying and playing but mostly just sweating his action.
He wasn't controlling anything.
He was just betting more to win more.
Worked till it didn't lol.
He ran it up to half a million a couple times in one night.
But you know... that is impossible like winning 56 sessions in a row... right??
Don't all these Math Guys/APs look up to Stanford Wong??
Didn't he write a book on dice control?
Didn't he do a Gambling with an Edge epsiode on the topic?
I'm pretty sure he flip flopped on his position on the topic but he does believe dice can be manipulated.
He probably just got involved for a cash grab.
I dunno.
Whatever.
This is all well and fine Mission, but this kind of thing is very, very rare. Based not only on my own experiences but that of a number of blackjack AP's I speak with, it is almost impossible to get a banning or 86ing overturned, not for suspicion of counting cards or advantage play. And that is going to be even more so at the level Mdawg is claiming. Just think about it, why would they? Like I said, maybe if the player is a bigger losing player at something else, (like baccarat).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mission146My scenario was that I was actually able to talk to the guy I needed to talk to. The casino in question would not show me as losing, so don't even try that line. They wouldn't show me as a big anything. Small-time player, wins somewhat. I was definitely winning there, just more than my card would look like because I didn't do any vulturing on my card, just worked the free play. The way their free play was set up is that you could maintain your offers with not very much play, so it was slight profitable and I was going to be vulturing there anyway. I also liked all of the free alcoholic beverage vouchers that I got because my fiancee (then girlfriend) and I would stay in a nearby hotel and the casino had a free shuttle to and from.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Anyway, I'd go in and vulture with no card (which is where the vast majority of the profits were) and would maintain pickups that I think were $60 per pick up that could sometimes be combined with supplemental small offers and kiosk pick a prize things at an expected loss on the action to maintain those pick ups of about $30. IOW, whatever I made vulturing plus an expected +$58 (roughly, not counting supplemental offers) in exchange for an expected loss of about $30 and I was driving right past there twice a week anyway.
Purely small-time stuff. I made about $200/week there, but I was managing a hotel full-time at the time, so that was a nice little weekly add for somewhere I'm driving right by anyway.
So, why was I unbanned?
1.) The Security Director (who I was able to talk to a few times) was perfectly fine with me being unbanned, but said I had to talk to the Marketing Director because it was his department that was impacted by what was going on. She said that there wasn't anything illegal about what I had been doing there, but it was a marketing department decision.
2.) Covid-19 happened, prior to that, the guy hadn't responded to my E-Mails or occasional phone messages at all. Then, Covid, and the casino itself was closed. He answered his phone on the second ring, didn't know who it was, of course. I am a friendly and polite person. He said that I could come back, but I'd better never have cards that are in any name but mine on me ever again.
Anyway, there you go. It had also been four or five years...I can't remember if this was in 2015 or 2016. I think 2016.
I think I have heard of 1 or 2 instances where a player talked pit out of it, right as it was happening. Convince them you are parleying or something rather than raising with count. And you know what that buys the player, about another 10 minutes. ;)
Again, it comes back to these people have to answer for it. They reverse a 86ing of a known card counter /AP and 10 minutes later, 30 minutes later, a week later, when the player is 86ed again, the person that undid the original banning has to answer for why.
pffft Dice Control...
Who Cares??
Is this shot real??
Was the Kill actually Confirmed??
Tell me what people can and can't do again.
Thanks.
Even if this shot was fake they certainly have confirmed kills over how far?
1 Mile?
2?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longes...d_sniper_kills
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez5payykwE4
Shooting rag heads and shooting dice are two completely different things.
Casinos made tables bouncy not because they actually believed that dice setting worked, but because of all the brags by dice setters about how well it works, and how they were cleaning casino clocks via dice setting.
Ounce of prevention, pound of cure.
Remember that old hack, Frank Scoblete, and the bullshit he and his dwarves concocted?
"Golden Touch Craps" my ass.
I recall confronting one of their teachers and telling him he was full of shit: felt good.
You are confusing con-artists and scams/scammers with physics.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Monet, please don't get me started on dice setting ... too late.
Sure, a helicopter / slide shot can work, and under the right conditions I suppose a dead cat bounce could be effective, but otherwise "no dice."
Too many variables to account for and control, esp. with bouncy tables.
But if this interests you there are forums devoted to the subject, including Axis Power Craps.
Love the Nazi implications in the name ...
Somebody Tackle Me!!
I am posting far too much in the last couple of days.
Hours and hours of reading and posting.
This has to stop.
Time to go to the dentist tomorrow and after that plan a camping trip.
I got to get away from most of you.
My Pikachu's, on this site, not included in my derogatory remarks.
Yeah that's right, some mid-sized and smaller casinos have the little craps tables (with their mini-craps tables only open during very select hours as you know) - probably more heat (so of course let the BP make the place bets on all the points as mentioned in the earlier post and keep them working for the session) on those since they would be much more vulnerable to a dice controller than a standard-sized table with all the trappings you listed above.Quote:
Originally Posted by monetOh and let us not forget that Dice Tables are very different these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by tableplay
They have added a bunch of cushion under the felt which makes the dice bounce too much.
You need a table with the slate/wood only under the felt.
You want those dice to die when they land perfectly if you can make them land perfectly.
You can hear the difference when they smack the table.
It's a very distinct sound when they hit and die correctly.
I'm not certain someone could control them with the new table conditions and rules.
I suppose if someone can get a die to helicopter spin most of the time and spin a certain number it could be done.
The truth is someone out there has figured it out already but don't expect simpletons like myself to garner such knowledge.
Think about the back wall how it changed from flat to diamonds.
Much easier to work a table with a flat back wall and thick slate or wood only under the felt.
Why would the Casino change the rules, cushions and back walls if it wasn't possible to manipulate dice?
Just paranoia?
Doubt that.
I've been in some Casinos late at night in other states that use the half wall/table.
Some dealers would let you just drop the dice.
Tell me you can't manipulate or control dice when you just drop them!?
I've actually been in Vegas on graveyard and had dealers let me just slide them.
Shit Happens.
I don't play much and I certainly can't manipulate them but like I say my best pal for years played dice all the time.
I got into it for awhile, studying and playing but mostly just sweating his action.
He wasn't controlling anything.
He was just betting more to win more.
Worked till it didn't lol.
He ran it up to half a million a couple times in one night.
But you know... that is impossible like winning 56 sessions in a row... right??
Don't all these Math Guys/APs look up to Stanford Wong??
Didn't he write a book on dice control?
Didn't he do a Gambling with an Edge epsiode on the topic?
I'm pretty sure he flip flopped on his position on the topic but he does believe dice can be manipulated.
He probably just got involved for a cash grab.
I dunno.
Whatever.
One other point I forgot to make earlier is that an average person practicing 15 hours a day will never be able to control dice IMHO. It would take an immensely talented individual practicing 15 hours a day to control dice. It is such a person that could probably get it done even with the diamond outcroppings and added cushioning under the felt. Maybe having the dice stick together until they hit the very bottom of the back wall (perhaps the 2-dice block hits the underside of the bottom-most diamond outcropping near the corner of the wall to minimize the amount of movement that occurs after the wall hit) rather than each dice getting separated earlier in the flight towards the wall. Another cute move might be to have the BP make a small pass line bet with the odds bet very near the back wall, with the odds bet chips positioned in such a way for the dice to hit the chips in a systematic way. You see, now you are dealing with a hard surface (the chips' surface) rather than a cushion. Did I say too much here ? yeah probably. But just thinking out loud ;-)
Good luck at the dentist tomorrow and make sure not to tell him you drink 3 cokes a day because he will tell you not to do that probably (I'm not implying that that is the cause of your visit). I can't stay away from cold cans of coca-cola forever and I certainly don't expect you too either.
Wait a second here cumbreath.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
(credit to blackhole for that nickname he gave you)
I grew up in the area that I think Mission lives near currently.
He seems to know the area well when I talk about it.
Probably lives in Greensburg or Irwin.
He obviously made a joke about meeting up with me because ever since I met ZenKing, AxelWolf and BBB in person I have done nothing but trash them.
And rightfully so.
All 3 of them completely front a different online persona compared to their real life counterparts.
In short ZenKing is a skinny nerd in person.
Axel Wolf about 140lbs soaking wet and a complete drunk, although MaxPen claims he kicked that habit.
BBB... 250/300 pounds... I dunno but always fishing around for a sponsor/backer.
I'm pretty sure you are the same and a completely different person compared to all of your online personalities and you have more than I can count.
I never thought he would actually meet up with me in the woods or on a camping trip because we all know I carry around a lot of guns.
Also I have been on this camping/hunting/fishing kick as of late not to mention a desire to see PA again.
I would never stay in a cabin.
I know too many places in PA that you can camp out by the waterfront.
Unless the laws have changed in the last 25 years and that could be the case.
I might go back to PA and be shocked at how it has changed and what you can and can't do anymore.
I would also have to bring my Uncle with me at the very least if not also my wife and dogs.
This is because we are talking about a 2000 mile journey or more.
I would basically have to make this a cross country trip where I stopped at many places along the way and put Western PA on the list of destinations.
The truth is if I was going to go back to PA and meet up with Mission it would be long into the future and take some serious planning/dedication.
Not sure it is actually feasible although I would follow through if we made plans.
I tried to treat all these Fuckers at WoV to dinner once at the 4 Queens but they all got scared when we were publicly stating when and where we were going to meet up.
I think I had about 10 or 12 people that were interested and I had over 7500 comp at the time.
I was going to pay for the whole thing but I did get PMs stating that it wasn't expected but that's how I am.
It fell through because they are so paranoid.
Go back to the Fat Jokes as they make more sense.
Or use other derogatory remarks that line up with my faults.
Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by tableplay
Yes I do drink 3 or more a day on occassions.
More of a joke really trying to say that coke is so bad for you that it will kill anything in the body.
Good or Bad, Virus or Medicine.
My teeth have never been good nor have I cared too much about them.
I'm trying to see how long I can neglect them before I have to rip them out and drill in implants.
It's all in the name of Scientific Research.
Oddly enough the dentists keep telling me I'm crazy because my teeth are very strong and set in very solid.
I would be an idiot to pull them out and screw in fake ones they tell me.
What the Fuck do they know though?
When I'm ready I'm going to get some madman to pull them out and screw fake ones in :)
About the dice manipulation or control.
I'm not arguing with you or anyone else about how to do it or how it can be done.
My only point is that they can be manipulated.
That is a fact.
If you start dropping them from 2 inches up you can prove that.
Keep raising the bar till you're up to a certain height.
Once you master that you move back and start to throw them.
The way I understand it one of the best ways is to get the dice to rotate as less as possible and land perfectly flat together.
Only one method.
Other methods involve sliding and helicopter spins are real and I've seen it done.
Pretty amazing but pretty sure you can't get away with those throws inside of a regulated casino.
Like I say I wasn't trying to say that this is something that anyone or everyone can do.
I'm sure you realize all this... just wanted to make it a bit more clear for the peanut gallery.
My point is that dice can be controlled and or manipulated.
I don't think anyone can argue that statement.
So that leads us to being able to use that information inside of a Casino in a real world setting.
Simply Put... If you can imagine it... it can be done.
I won't argue 15 hours a day and 10 years.
What I will simply say is that if you want to get good at anything in life a good base is 10,000 hours of practice.
No matter what the individual is trying to learn or accomplish.
And since this is something that involves an athletic hand eye coordination approach.
Many people will simply be exempt from the jump.
If that makes sense.
I'm too lazy right now but didn't they use robotic arms to prove that dice can be manipulated in throws?
I know you would know that information.
Last thing I will say is that you are certainly on the right track in using a team.
However, I suppose if you are going to have a team like that you could find easier spots to take advantage of.
"jbjb has entered the chat"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1qmoDJIunY
Speaking of manipulating dice ...
Get a drink of water in an open glass and keep it with you at the table, below the rail.
When it's your turn to shoot surreptitiously dampen your fingers and then dampen the two sides of the dice you will throw: do it quickly, then throw them such that when they leave your hand they are square to the wall in front.
I never dared to try it nor heard of it being done, but I would think that the dice would stay together through the air due to the surface tension of the water keeping them paired together, at least in theory.
Best of all you'd have plausible deniability.
So who weighs more soaking wet with steel toe boots. Zenking or AlexWolf ?Quote:
Originally Posted by monetWait a second here cumbreath.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
(credit to blackhole for that nickname he gave you)
I grew up in the area that I think Mission lives near currently.
He seems to know the area well when I talk about it.
Probably lives in Greensburg or Irwin.
He obviously made a joke about meeting up with me because ever since I met ZenKing, AxelWolf and BBB in person I have done nothing but trash them.
And rightfully so.
All 3 of them completely front a different online persona compared to their real life counterparts.
In short ZenKing is a skinny nerd in person.
Axel Wolf about 140lbs soaking wet and a complete drunk, although MaxPen claims he kicked that habit.
BBB... 250/300 pounds... I dunno but always fishing around for a sponsor/backer.
I'm pretty sure you are the same and a completely different person compared to all of your online personalities and you have more than I can count.
I never thought he would actually meet up with me in the woods or on a camping trip because we all know I carry around a lot of guns.
Also I have been on this camping/hunting/fishing kick as of late not to mention a desire to see PA again.
I would never stay in a cabin.
I know too many places in PA that you can camp out by the waterfront.
Unless the laws have changed in the last 25 years and that could be the case.
I might go back to PA and be shocked at how it has changed and what you can and can't do anymore.
I would also have to bring my Uncle with me at the very least if not also my wife and dogs.
This is because we are talking about a 2000 mile journey or more.
I would basically have to make this a cross country trip where I stopped at many places along the way and put Western PA on the list of destinations.
The truth is if I was going to go back to PA and meet up with Mission it would be long into the future and take some serious planning/dedication.
Not sure it is actually feasible although I would follow through if we made plans.
I tried to treat all these Fuckers at WoV to dinner once at the 4 Queens but they all got scared when we were publicly stating when and where we were going to meet up.
I think I had about 10 or 12 people that were interested and I had over 7500 comp at the time.
I was going to pay for the whole thing but I did get PMs stating that it wasn't expected but that's how I am.
It fell through because they are so paranoid.
Go back to the Fat Jokes as they make more sense.
Or use other derogatory remarks that line up with my faults.
Practice, Practice, Practice and play in some Casino that has no clue.
As tableplay mentioned... have a good team with you.
Play when the employees don't give a Fuck or get the employees in on it with you.
Try not to win too much... those idiots trying to cash out 39k+ lol lol lol.
As always don't get caught as you could have to do time or worse.
Never take me alive Copper!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdOQUWzPzKg
Too much height with ZenKing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzy
Wins easy.
I'm pretty sure he is taller than me by an inch or two.
I eat more steak though.
I think that punk is a Vegan or something like that :)
Waiting for Boz to come in here and refute me while praising AxelWolf and BBB.
Better Business Bureau!?
We all know he isn't going to stick up for ZenKing.
That bridge never leaves and is always waiting.
I know... I slept under one in Santa Monica before.
Best to pay the toll to the troll.
There is a reason parents used to tell that fairy tale to their children.
BBB was complete opposite in person, compared to her tight ship and often bias moderation at wov ?Quote:
Originally Posted by monetToo much height with ZenKing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzy
Wins easy.
I'm pretty sure he is taller than me by an inch or two.
I eat more steak though.
I think that punk is a Vegan or something like that :)
Waiting for Boz to come in here and refute me while praising AxelWolf and BBB.
Better Business Bureau!?
We all know he isn't going to stick up for ZenKing.
That bridge never leaves and is always waiting.
I know... I slept under one in Santa Monica before.
Best to pay the toll to the troll.
There is a reason parents used to tell that fairy tale to their children.
Let me see if I can clarify this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzy
I think the problem was more about my perception.
I may have assumed that she, like others, were more in control compared to what they actually are.
I suppose I had a sense that she would be more of a backer/sponsor type compared to being one of the grunts.
I could be wrong here.
I just got the sense that she was an employee rather than an employer if that makes sense.
Now before meeting her I had an issue with telling the Wiz to Jump Off a Cliff.
I posted something to him like "You must think you are playing with kids."
Remember that?
It didn't go over so well.
However, BBB got into private messaging with Wiz and others without my knowledge.
Made up some covers/or lies without asking first.
This is because I'm a head case and asked for a 30 day self suspension and got it.
Later I created PingPangPong without realizing multiple accounts were a thing.
I didn't read the rules and didn't/don't have much forum experience.
Turned out to be one of those things you don't do... especially on WoV.
I'm not much for rules though and reading them.
Turns out you can't say whatever you want on the internet... who knew?
Later when she posted her thoughts it was clear she wanted to keep me on the site to post.
I think it was because I would actually post information publicly.
I think many people just sit back waiting for someone to give up free information.
So, looking back it could of been about ulterior motives.
I get that sense from her.
You know the type I am sure... always around for the freebies.
Looking to get the edge on every situation in life.
Mostly speculation here but AxelWolf isn't the only person who can sniff this kind of stuff out.
I'm sure that you can agree that most people in life are phony.
These encounters weren't much different.
I'm a cynical prick though.
I got the sense that I talked her ear off during dinner and she had enough.
Or it could of been because I dismissed her requests to put her on plays.
I really don't see how she could walk around though.
Others claim she has no problem getting around.
I can't imagine her constantly walking all day.
I had no problem actually showing her what machines are good but she wasn't interested.
The food and wine gave her some serious digestion issues.
That food at the 4 Queens is very rich at Hugos as I am sure you know.
I haven't eaten there since they changed the menu and got all corporate.
I don't have a problem with partnering up with people but I'm not sponsoring anyone to push the buttons for me.
My fingers still work.
I also don't have that kind of trust.
It takes a lot of trust to put someone on a play and bankroll it while you sleep or do something else.
What I would do is loan people money.
Usually people that I know.
This is how I and others have done this sort of thing for decades.
I loan someone money and they play what they want.
Pay it back when you can at no vig of course but that is for a very select few and I haven't done such things for a few years now.
How can anyone trust a team member to give you accurate results?
That's impossible... I don't care what these APs say on these forums.
Everyone going to skim eventually in that sort of a situation.
Or fall into the pit or sportsbook with your money.
The only way is when these teams use Managers to watch the Employees but still... not for me.
Yes there are a lot of phonys in life, you see that more as time goes on. Its a lot easier to be " good friends" with people when young in your teens through early 30s. Your a lot more gullible and trusting, learning things the hard way. Its easier to weed out undesirables by the time your around 35-40. You were spot on, most people are lucky to have 1 or 2 real friends and a handful of acquaintances. There are exceptions, people that are extremely extroverted, but they also get burned a lot by people( to trusting). From my observations over the last 23 or so years, most AP'S tend to lean introvert for the most part.Quote:
Originally Posted by monetLet me see if I can clarify this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzy
I think the problem was more about my perception.
I may have assumed that she like others were more in control compared to they actually are.
I suppose I had a sense that she would be more of a backer/sponsor type compared to being one of the grunts.
I could be wrong here.
I just got the sense that she was an employee rather than an employer if that makes sense.
Now before meeting her I had an issue with telling the Wiz to Jump Off a Cliff.
I posted something to him like "You must think you are playing with kids."
Remember that?
It didn't go over so well.
However, BBB got into private messaging with Wiz and others without my knowledge.
Made up some covers/or lies without asking first.
Later when she posted her thoughts it was clear she wanted to keep me on the site to post.
I think it was because I would actually post information publicly.
I think many people just sit back waiting for someone to give up free information.
So, looking back it could of been about ulterior motives.
I get that sense from her.
You know the type I am sure... always around for the freebies.
Looking to get the edge on every situation in life.
Mostly speculation here but AxelWolf isn't the only person who can sniff this kind of stuff out.
I'm sure that you can agree that most people in life are phony.
These encounters weren't much different.
I'm a cynical prick though.
I got the sense that I talked her ear off during dinner and she had enough.
Or it could of been because I dismissed her requests to put her on plays.
I really don't see how she could walk around though.
Others claim she has no problem getting around.
I can't imagine her constantly walking all day.
I don't have a problem with partnering up with people but I'm not sponsoring anyone to push the button for me.
My fingers still work.
I was reading a page or two of GF and that WoV Thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzy
Seen you post that I'm the only person/AP(gambler) on these forums that hates AxelWolf.
Not exactly true.
I don't hate AxelWolf.
Actually I like the guys style and what he does.
Does he know what he is doing?
Yes.
Does he get on a Shit Ton of plays and work almost every angle?
Yes.
What I hate is how he portrays himself on these forums or how he is portrayed.
I've said this before.
He is a Hustler/Grifter Type.
I am a Hustler/Grifter Type.
He and others, on these forums put up this front like they are Church Goers.
Like they are some sort of Holy Individual fighting the Evil Corporate Casino.
That is not true.
The Casinos are Evil.
AxelWolf is Evil.
So am I.
Just admit it.
He also got very odd with his ideology when he was doing some political tests.
The guy says you don't need a gun in Vegas and as soon as Corona hit he went out and bought a Gun.
His stance on all this Mask/Covid Protocol is unnerving as well.
It doesn't line up with his Hustler Lifestyle.
I get it though.
He needs to put that persona out there and have his cronies back him up.
He is about building a Network and Image is just about everything when doing that.
I'm about Fuck Everyone and Burn it all down.
I'll do it myself.
Or something to that extent.
I get along with a few of these forum members around here.
I'm not a complete monster.
Yet.
No worries though.
I don't mind people thinking I hate AxelWolf.
Fuck that guy!
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gamb...on/#post802661Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
He just made a post that sums up what I really hate about him.
He should of just went to Law School with this type of both sides of the fence bullshit.
I don't hate him but I hate this two faced bullshit that he either posts, believes or both.
So in essence, if this is at his core... I have to hate him or at least the way he thinks and what he is promoting.
That is some Fucking Twisted way of thinking!
Fuck People like that.
Those are the ones who bend the legal system anyway they can to get whatever result they want.
That is why his whole defense of anything is what he calls "Grey Areas."
No such thing as a grey area... that is something people say when they did something wrong and they know it's wrong but they delude themselves and others into thinking that it's ok or good.