Getting tired of the trolling here -- please read this thread -- NEW RULES

Hi everyone.

I'm glad that this site has picked up a few new members over the last 2 months or so.

However, I'm not very happy to see that every thread in the Las Vegas forum -- even interesting ones -- eventually degrade into trolling and fighting.

While it would be easy to blame all of this on Rob Singer (and he DOES deserve a lot of the blame), others are responsible for this, as well.

I will be enforcing the following rules going forward:

1) In any discussion regarding AP-type strategies, you may not make posts questioning whether advantage play exists, or state that APs are "problem gamblers". This degenerates into a frustrating debate which ruins the thread and seemingly never ends. I will leave the "BS APs" thread open, where everyone who wishes to participate in such a discussion can still do so.

2) Any non-productive troll posts will be deleted, and the poster will be removed from the thread. I will be the sole judge of this. If I feel a post is made just to insult someone in the thread, with no other value, it will be removed and the offender will be kicked from the thread.

3) You may not derail topics by starting off-topic arguments. For example, I realize that there is an ongoing controversy involving Alan and the package redietz sent to him. I understand that this topic still needs to be discussed, as there is no conclusion to it yet. However, I don't want it bleeding into every thread here.

4) Regarding gambling topics, while it is fine to debate the validity of strategies and claims of success, you may not simply accuse people of being problem gamblers. That is, if you have a criticism, it must be presented respectfully with supporting arguments. Otherwise I will take it as a troll post and will remove it. I don't necessarily have to agree with your point of view, but you need to support your argument and show that you're not just trolling.

Many people have complained to me that they want to post on this forum, but are afraid to do so because of the incessant trolling and arguing. I want that to change.

Thank you.

The gay bashing and racist remarks need to end too.

If a person posts complete total bullshit like below, are we allowed to challenge him, or must we seek permission from you first? Ignore the fact he later admitted it was bullshit or a hyperbole, he did try to get away with it at first.

Please clarify the rules under these conditions.

Originally Posted by BiloxiBill View Post:

Have heard this is a great site..My name is Bill and am a professional horse player....I have earned 7 figures or more the last 15 years and consider myself an expert in my craft.I live very comfortably/extravagantly off my gambling winnings and consider it a blessing from God to earn my fortune doing exactly what I love.Nice to be here

BH, you are part of the problem. You have never made a positive contribution here. All you've ever done is troll this forum.

No more insults? No more fun!

Overall this new way forward is a poor business decision if the purpose of this forum is to experience more traffic. Stifling comments that pop in because you don't agree with them--and bottom line, that's what you're doing--is counter-productive to any reasonable goal--and it turns the forum into being all about you. I mean, what do you or should you really care if someone opines that someone else is a problem gambler....unless it hits close to home. And since most of the bazookas who post here are anonymous cowards, your supposed concern for their "we'll being" are misguided.

You should have taken more college business classes Dan instead of sitting at poker tables so often. And your cloaked belief that the redietz "PR Packet" (still the same joke it was from the start) will have any meaning whatsoever when it's sent in by the same person desperately looking for peer justification, shows the same type bias you feel towards the never-supported, theory-based armchair-gambler claims of so-called "AP's". It's like you're one of the walking-wounded/forever-suffering backers of the worst candidate to come down the pike ever, when you try to give credence to the claims of impossible abilities by these people.

BTW--you remove my post and I'll be gone. And it doesn't take my MBA to understand what that means here.

I don't see anything in Dan's rules that say the claims of APs can't be challenged.

I think we all agree that there are advantage players. But I think we need clarification and support of their claims as to what their advantages are.

Again, I refer to the player who told me he is an advantage player, yet he plays low limit slots and 25-cent video poker, earns perhaps no more than $15,000 a year (if that, because sometimes he's broke) and lives with his mother while in his mid to late 50s.

"Many people have complained to me that they want to post on this forum, but are afraid to do so because of the incessant trolling and arguing. I want that to change." If they want to post then post. If you want to read ...read. The people who say they would like to post but are ascared to aren't going to post anyway, What do you want? A fifty page thread on the "twenty dollar trick"? This rag tag group is entertaining enuf!

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I don't see anything in Dan's rules that say the claims of APs can't be challenged.

I think we all agree that there are advantage players. But I think we need clarification and support of their claims as to what their advantages are.

Again, I refer to the player who told me he is an advantage player, yet he plays low limit slots and 25-cent video poker, earns perhaps no more than $15,000 a year (if that, because sometimes he's broke) and lives with his mother while in his mid to late 50s.

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Does it really matter what he's playing or where he's living? NO! He's making money off casinos as an "AP" and you're losing money to them as a "non-AP."

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Originally Posted by blackhole

If a person posts complete total bullshit like below, are we allowed to challenge him, or must we seek permission from you first? Ignore the fact he later admitted it was bullshit or a hyperbole, he did try to get away with it at first.

Please clarify the rules under these conditions.

Originally Posted by BiloxiBill View Post:

Have heard this is a great site..My name is Bill and am a professional horse player....I have earned 7 figures or more the last 15 years and consider myself an expert in my craft.I live very comfortably/extravagantly off my gambling winnings and consider it a blessing from God to earn my fortune doing exactly what I love.Nice to be here

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Wow, up at 3AM...this really puts your stomach in knots doesn`t it, lol....That comment was made more than a year and a half ago sir, and hasn`t been expounded upon since....don`t blame me you have the light-heartedness and sense of humor as a roadside flare......and get away with it?....get away with what?....did I ask you or anyone else for a donation, Captain Douchebag?

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I don't see anything in Dan's rules that say the claims of APs can't be challenged.

I think we all agree that there are advantage players. But I think we need clarification and support of their claims as to what their advantages are.

Again, I refer to the player who told me he is an advantage player, yet he plays low limit slots and 25-cent video poker, earns perhaps no more than $15,000 a year (if that, because sometimes he's broke) and lives with his mother while in his mid to late 50s.

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Well there`s your answer.....you know he lives with his mom and makes 15K a year...wtf do you care if he calls himself the President of Microsoft?.....some of you clowns need to worry about yourselves first

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Originally Posted by jbjb

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I don't see anything in Dan's rules that say the claims of APs can't be challenged.

I think we all agree that there are advantage players. But I think we need clarification and support of their claims as to what their advantages are.

Again, I refer to the player who told me he is an advantage player, yet he plays low limit slots and 25-cent video poker, earns perhaps no more than $15,000 a year (if that, because sometimes he's broke) and lives with his mother while in his mid to late 50s.

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Does it really matter what he's playing or where he's living? NO! He's making money off casinos as an "AP" and you're losing money to them as a "non-AP."

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If you call $15,000 a year and living with mom what an AP should be (and you dismissed my comment that he's sometimes broke) then okay he's an AP.

I don't dispute he's smart and I don't dispute that he makes good plays, but is it worth it?

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Originally Posted by Biloxi Bill

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Originally Posted by blackhole

If a person posts complete total bullshit like below, are we allowed to challenge him, or must we seek permission from you first? Ignore the fact he later admitted it was bullshit or a hyperbole, he did try to get away with it at first.

Please clarify the rules under these conditions.

Originally Posted by BiloxiBill View Post:

Have heard this is a great site..My name is Bill and am a professional horse player....I have earned 7 figures or more the last 15 years and consider myself an expert in my craft.I live very comfortably/extravagantly off my gambling winnings and consider it a blessing from God to earn my fortune doing exactly what I love.Nice to be here

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Wow, up at 3AM...this really puts your stomach in knots doesn`t it, lol....That comment was made more than a year and a half ago sir, and hasn`t been expounded upon since....don`t blame me you have the light-heartedness and sense of humor as a roadside flare......and get away with it?....get away with what?....did I ask you or anyone else for a donation, Captain Douchebag?

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Unfortunately Bill we don't know what to believe with you. But please believe I have never had a profitable year gambling. Please.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

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Originally Posted by Biloxi Bill

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Originally Posted by blackhole

If a person posts complete total bullshit like below, are we allowed to challenge him, or must we seek permission from you first? Ignore the fact he later admitted it was bullshit or a hyperbole, he did try to get away with it at first.

Please clarify the rules under these conditions.

Originally Posted by BiloxiBill View Post:

Have heard this is a great site..My name is Bill and am a professional horse player....I have earned 7 figures or more the last 15 years and consider myself an expert in my craft.I live very comfortably/extravagantly off my gambling winnings and consider it a blessing from God to earn my fortune doing exactly what I love.Nice to be here

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Wow, up at 3AM...this really puts your stomach in knots doesn`t it, lol....That comment was made more than a year and a half ago sir, and hasn`t been expounded upon since....don`t blame me you have the light-heartedness and sense of humor as a roadside flare......and get away with it?....get away with what?....did I ask you or anyone else for a donation, Captain Douchebag?

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Unfortunately Bill we don't know what to believe with you. But please believe I have never had a profitable year gambling. Please.

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I really don`t care if you have, or if you`re a gazillionaire because of it....what does what you label yourself or your financial situation got to do with me?

What matters is what can we believe about you, Bill? If someone isn't telling the truth about their gambling wins or profits what good is their advice?

On the other hand if you are profitable playing 25-cent video poker and your advice is about 25-cent video poker then you deserve respect.

If you say you won a million or more playing the ponies but it's just hyperbole what should we believe and what value should we attach to your comments?

Me? I have no profits so I'm not giving advice. I'm just trying to find out what's real whether it's special plays or win goals or counting cards at two tables. I already know there are very few true dice influencers who can actually have an impact on craps. I am not one of them.

Well, since I have never given any horse racing advice anywhere in this forum, I would say that`s a moot point...and if I was making over a million a year betting horses, you can make doubly sure I wouldn`t be doling out advice either....No one here talks about horse racing or no-limit hold em, the 2 games I like playing, so I don`t talk about them....just like I believe I read you don`t play BJ, but are so very interested that KJ says he can count cards at 2 tables...why, if you don`t play that game?

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

BTW--you remove my post and I'll be gone. And it doesn't take my MBA to understand what that means here.

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Don't let the door hit ya where the dog should have bit ya! This will be the first forum you ever left voluntarily instead of getting the heave ho!

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Originally Posted by Biloxi Bill

Well, since I have never given any horse racing advice anywhere in this forum, I would say that`s a moot point...and if I was making over a million a year betting horses, you can make doubly sure I wouldn`t be doling out advice either....No one here talks about horse racing or no-limit hold em, the 2 games I like playing, so I don`t talk about them....just like I believe I read you don`t play BJ, but are so very interested that KJ says he can count cards at 2 tables...why, if you don`t play that game?

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Bill--I am a professional horse player. And I have never made over a million in any year, although I made over 300,000 this year on derby Day and have had single winning tickets on several pick 6's. I would love to hear your thoughts and insights on handicapping if you really are a pro and if you aren't total BS. But I think you are probably BS until you prove otherwise.

P.S.--I suck at the NHC type handicapping tournaments as that is not my style of betting. But I feel compelled to play them anyway just for the challenge. I have qualified 6 of my 7 years--not yet qualified this year and looks doubtful as I am concentrating on $$ tournaments instead.

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Originally Posted by regnis

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Originally Posted by Biloxi Bill

Well, since I have never given any horse racing advice anywhere in this forum, I would say that`s a moot point...and if I was making over a million a year betting horses, you can make doubly sure I wouldn`t be doling out advice either....No one here talks about horse racing or no-limit hold em, the 2 games I like playing, so I don`t talk about them....just like I believe I read you don`t play BJ, but are so very interested that KJ says he can count cards at 2 tables...why, if you don`t play that game?

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Bill--I am a professional horse player. And I have never made over a million in any year, although I made over 300,000 this year on derby Day and have had single winning tickets on several pick 6's. I would love to hear your thoughts and insights on handicapping if you really are a pro and if you aren't total BS. But I think you are probably BS until you prove otherwise.

P.S.--I suck at the NHC type handicapping tournaments as that is not my style of betting. But I feel compelled to play them anyway just for the challenge. I have qualified 6 of my 7 years--not yet qualified this year and looks doubtful as I am concentrating on $$ tournaments instead.

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Wow, 300K on the Derby..nice...you must have hammered Always Dreaming, or had the tri or super a few times....I don`t consider myself a pro, as my main source of income comes from working.....I am not a W-P bettor...Only concentrate on horizontals (i.e. Pk 4,5 or 6) and sometimes play trifectas if i especially like a key horse on top....Mostly focus on NYRA or California, with a few of the shorter meets mixed in like Keeneland or Kentucky Downs....Just started getting a bit more into the contest scene the last few years...Have played in a few of the ones Boyd Gaming puts on....it`s a whole different ball game playing those, and my best finish to date is 24th...they are pretty interesting and fun however......Nice to see another horse player here

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Originally Posted by Biloxi Bill

Well, since I have never given any horse racing advice anywhere in this forum, I would say that`s a moot point...and if I was making over a million a year betting horses, you can make doubly sure I wouldn`t be doling out advice either....No one here talks about horse racing or no-limit hold em, the 2 games I like playing, so I don`t talk about them....just like I believe I read you don`t play BJ, but are so very interested that KJ says he can count cards at 2 tables...why, if you don`t play that game?

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The journalist in me is always interested. Too bad kewlj won't demonstrate. It remains an unproven claim.

He's better off if people didn't believe him.

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Originally Posted by jbjb

He's better off if people didn't believe him.

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Yes. He should stay off forums. Soon the casinos will separate the tables even further.

Holy shit, even this thread got instantly derailed. :(


+1 on the new rules, Dan.

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Originally Posted by Biloxi Bill

Wow, up at 3AM...this really puts your stomach in knots doesn`t it, lol....

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And this gentlemen claims he handicaps horses and plays poker? Not to hard to stump you, is it?

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

BH, you are part of the problem. You have never made a positive contribution here. All you've ever done is troll this forum.

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I make plenty of positive contributions here. My main one is to stop the unproven alleged professional AP's from steering immature rookies into a future life of devastation, by thinking life's a game. Look how you ended up.

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Originally Posted by blackhole

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Originally Posted by Biloxi Bill

Wow, up at 3AM...this really puts your stomach in knots doesn`t it, lol....

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And this gentlemen claims he handicaps horses and plays poker? Not to hard to stump you, is it?

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It`s actually too, not to.....don`t worry about it, that extra 'o' used to give me fits when I was 9 years old too :)

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Originally Posted by RS__

Holy shit, even this thread got instantly derailed. :(


+1 on the new rules, Dan.

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I am all for the "NEW RULES" -- But I wonder if Dan will actually enforce said rules.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

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Originally Posted by jbjb

He's better off if people didn't believe him.

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Soon the casinos will separate the tables even further.

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In all seriousness, with all of these new fangled slots taking over, that's a real possibility. But not because of a few card counters.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

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Originally Posted by jbjb

He's better off if people didn't believe him.

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Yes. He should stay off forums. Soon the casinos will separate the tables even further.

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Ever since kew blabbed about his "secret" special ability of being able to see every card at the table next door, I've heard talk of casinos placing fat people between the bj tables. Sounds like they're terrified that they never thought of such specialized play, and how their eyes upstairs have never been able to spot such stealthy antics.

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Originally Posted by blackhole

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

BH, you are part of the problem. You have never made a positive contribution here. All you've ever done is troll this forum.

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I make plenty of positive contributions here. My main one is to stop the unproven alleged professional AP's from steering immature rookies into a future life of devastation, by thinking life's a game. Look how you ended up.

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Look how you would up, a lonely bitter old man living a painful existence having to anonymously lash out at people in the internet forums. What you write about me here has absolutely nothing to do with reality. You know nothing about me. It is all conjured up in your sad delusional mind. Seek help from mental health professionals. You need it. I hope you don't treat your family the way you treat people in the internet forums. That would be really sad.

At least he has a family to treat, mickey. Capisce? And you can say all you want about what is or isn't reality about you and your loner, lonely life. What most everyone knows about you is you are an alcoholic and you play 5c &25c keno & vp--if you even really do that. You're also a hopeless dreamer about being a successful professional gambler....and you have a chair and a computer where you spew the most nonsensical ap bs from.

You can take all that to the bank. At least you finally get to go there.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

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Originally Posted by blackhole

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

BH, you are part of the problem. You have never made a positive contribution here. All you've ever done is troll this forum.

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I make plenty of positive contributions here. My main one is to stop the unproven alleged professional AP's from steering immature rookies into a future life of devastation, by thinking life's a game. Look how you ended up.

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Look how you would up, a lonely bitter old man living a painful existence having to anonymously lash out at people in the internet forums. What you write about me here has absolutely nothing to do with reality. You know nothing about me. It is all conjured up in your sad delusional mind. Seek help from mental health professionals. You need it. I hope you don't treat your family the way you treat people in the internet forums. That would be really sad.

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Good points Mickey....all can see how miserable Blacksoul is...wonder where it all went wrong

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

At least he has a family to treat, mickey. Capisce? And you can say all you want about what is or isn't reality about you and your loner, lonely life. What most everyone knows about you is you are an alcoholic and you play 5c &25c keno & vp--if you even really do that. You're also a hopeless dreamer about being a successful professional gambler....and you have a chair and a computer where you spew the most nonsensical ap bs from. You can take all that to the bank. At least you finally get to go there.

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Rob, your delusions are worse than blackhole's.

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Originally Posted by blackhole

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

BH, you are part of the problem. You have never made a positive contribution here. All you've ever done is troll this forum.

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I make plenty of positive contributions here. My main one is to stop the unproven alleged professional AP's from steering immature rookies into a future life of devastation, by thinking life's a game. Look how you ended up.

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How can you say you are contributing anything positive when you don't know enough about AP(s) to make any real honest determination. You are using your own assumptions and speculations but you have no evidence either way. You can't even give an educated opinion about real AP(s).

You seem to lump in all AP(s) claims. It doesn't make sense to just lump in horse bettors, system players(like people claiming you can gain an advantage and beat -EV VP with a system), DI's, .25 VP players, cards counters, hole carders, sports bettors, poker players, bonus hunters(perhaps even cheaters and cons) etc.

I myself, and others have called out various AP(s) claim that just doesn't sound right (Exoter comes to mind) I have always called BS on system players, DI and various outrageous fish stories.

I don't know who's steering anyone towards AP here, or any other sites I participate at. I myself, and many others have discouraged people from going into AP. I don't know any real AP who has ever claimed its some great way to make easy money and get rich. AP is right for the right kind of people, some do very well, some barely survive, and there's everything in between, just like many business owners in the same types of buissness.

If you have an issue with a particular person's AP claims, call them out individually, don't just discount all AP(s) and all claims blindly(sure some may well be full of shit.) Some people can do the math and tell you how to play something, that doesn't mean they are actually doing it. I have no doubt many overstate most of their claims(just like manny people do in all aspects of their life).

If they are full of it, you probably won't find out if what they are saying is true or not. A few things you might look for (if you are actually interested in finding out more). Can find anyone that actually meet them ( Be careful, perhaps they meet but never really seen them in action)?has anyone played for them? Has anyone played next to them or the same stuff as they have? Has anyone ever worked with or done any real business with them? I'm not just talking about anonymous forum members and AP's. I'm talking about all kinds of various people. People who have non AP jobs, people who have been around and have fairly good reputations, people that have meet others from the forums, people who have worked with or for, and or observed them in action.

As anyone who read my last post last week, probably figured out, I have decided I have had enough of this site. I just see no value in participating here for me. The constant trolling and personal attacks, have led me to respond a couple times in a manner that, is not who I am, nor want to be. I will not let a handful of bitter old guys drag me down to their level. I am sure this post will lead to even more such attacks. :rolleyes:

But I did want to take a moment to express my support for Dan's attempt to clean up the site a bit. Based on responses in the last 24 hours, in the very thread he announced his new policies, I don't see much likely to change. But I hope it does. I hope Dan cleans up the site, and that leads to some new members joining and participating....positive contributions. Should that occur, I reserve the right to reconsider my position.

Good luck Dan and my best to my friends and fellow AP's. Continued good health to Alan and better health and recovery to Blackhole.

The activity in this thread (which I will leave up to serve as an example) is exactly what I don't want to see.

Lots of pointless attacks, non-sequitur arguments, dragging up old fights, etc.

As I said, I will not let threads get derailed with this crap anymore. If you guys want to fight back and forth, do it in the threads where it's already taking place.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Good luck Dan and my best to my friends and fellow AP's. Continued good health to Alan and better health and recovery to Blackhole.

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Your "fellow AP's" will tell you there's no such thing as luck. You didn't know that?
Now you can go back to your whimpering.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

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Originally Posted by Biloxi Bill

Well, since I have never given any horse racing advice anywhere in this forum, I would say that`s a moot point...and if I was making over a million a year betting horses, you can make doubly sure I wouldn`t be doling out advice either....No one here talks about horse racing or no-limit hold em, the 2 games I like playing, so I don`t talk about them....just like I believe I read you don`t play BJ, but are so very interested that KJ says he can count cards at 2 tables...why, if you don`t play that game?

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The journalist in me is always interested. Too bad kewlj won't demonstrate. It remains an unproven claim.

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Understandable....but most journalists actually like reporting their findings....I guess the info Redietz sent you doesn`t qualify

Anything redietz sent me he could have photographed and posted.

I'm not responsible for any of this bullshit.

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Anything redietz sent me he could have photographed and posted.

I'm not responsible for any of this bullshit.

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Uh yeah, you kind of put yourself there, unless Redietz got your address out of thin air....you`re always running around demanding proof (contacting a dealers school lol)...running around in the middle of the night measuring BJ tables to try and make people look bad, and asking people to post personal pics of themselves....but when someone sends you something to verify, that you gave them the address to do so, and then claim you`re not responsible for it.....well, just makes you appear to be a very shifty individual.....just sayin

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

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Originally Posted by jbjb

He's better off if people didn't believe him.

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Yes. He should stay off forums. Soon the casinos will separate the tables even further.

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Ever since kew blabbed about his "secret" special ability of being able to see every card at the table next door, .

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There you go twisting shit again. No one said they can see every card at the table next door. You dont have to see every card to know its better or worst than the table you are at.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Good luck Dan and my best to my friends and fellow AP's. Continued good health to Alan and better health and recovery to Blackhole.

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Your "fellow AP's" will tell you there's no such thing as luck. You didn't know that?
Now you can go back to your whimpering.

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There you go twisting shit again. Some of them call luck variance (I use both terms). The guys who have been APing for years who are in the black will tell you it's not by luck they are winning, its due to the math and skill.

If you have a big enough advantage on something, you can be certain it's not luck, its just simple math. For example: If you played 100 table game match plays over the course of a few years it would be almost imposable to lose given a simple basic strategy. That's not luck.

If someone is winning because they get a bunch of multi line dealt royals, I would say they were lucky.

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

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Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Yes. He should stay off forums. Soon the casinos will separate the tables even further.

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Ever since kew blabbed about his "secret" special ability of being able to see every card at the table next door, .

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There you go twisting shit again. No one said they can see every card at the table next door. You dont have to see every card to know its better or worst than the table you are at.

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And you call yourself an advantage player?

No bj counter would have any idea which table has the better count WITHOUT KNOWING 100% OF THE CARDS THAT HAVE BEEN PLAYED AT BOTH TABLES. Anything less constitutes guessing, with the remainder left up to hope. Is this what you guys are all about?

I suspect Dan doesn't have the time to read every post to keep his forum policed up. I suggest a function where anyone can report a post as pure trolling. Rob will never abide by the new rules. He has never followed the rules on any forum he has participated in, hence he was given the boot. I think a function where a post can be reported, Dan can review it, make a decision, then either let the post stand or delete it and bar the person from the thread, would work pretty good.

I'm sorry to say it, but I must. This forum worked well when it was only us dumb, recreational players who were here. The dumb, recreational players with the exception of me are all gone. And it's you smart guys who brought the trouble.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

I suspect Dan doesn't have the time to read every post to keep his forum policed up. I suggest a function where anyone can report a post as pure trolling. Rob will never abide by the new rules. He has never followed the rules on any forum he has participated in, hence he was given the boot. I think a function where a post can be reported, Dan can review it, make a decision, then either let the post stand or delete it and bar the person from the thread, would work pretty good.

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It's funny watching mickey try to play the part of the aware, caring, intelligent poster, who sees all, suspects all, and knows all. And while the guy yearns to be known for having the virtues of a saint, the alcohol on his breath and the lack of responsibility in his life tell quite a different story.

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

Good luck Dan and my best to my friends and fellow AP's. Continued good health to Alan and better health and recovery to Blackhole.

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Your "fellow AP's" will tell you there's no such thing as luck. You didn't know that?
Now you can go back to your whimpering.

---

There you go twisting shit again. Some of them call luck variance (I use both terms). The guys who have been APing for years who are in the black will tell you it's not by luck they are winning, its due to the math and skill.

If you have a big enough advantage on something, you can be certain it's not luck, its just simple math. For example: If you played 100 table game match plays over the course of a few years it would be almost imposable to lose given a simple basic strategy. That's not luck.

If someone is winning because they get a bunch of multi line dealt royals, I would say they were lucky.

---

Great--so you expanded on your gut feel theory.

BJ counting has a very tiny "edge" for the competent player. That says it all from a practical, theoretical, and mathematical point. As such, anyone who is stupid enuf to try to convince others that counting two tables simultaneously is possible, must have the mathematical facts readily available. All you've provided is a helter-skelter twist as it relates to statistics. FAIL.

Rob... you know by now that the AP Team is very loyal to other AP Team members. If one AP Team member says it's true, it must be true.

They won't show the rest of us it's true, but they know it's true.

Unfortunately, in the case of counting two tables, there is no math formula for them to stand on. On the other hand, they can figure the chance of two dice coming up 11 once, twice, three times, etc.

But how do they figure missing one card, or two cards, or a cocktail waitress in the way for one round, or someone big sitting at third base or first base?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

I suspect Dan doesn't have the time to read every post to keep his forum policed up. I suggest a function where anyone can report a post as pure trolling. Rob will never abide by the new rules. He has never followed the rules on any forum he has participated in, hence he was given the boot. I think a function where a post can be reported, Dan can review it, make a decision, then either let the post stand or delete it and bar the person from the thread, would work pretty good.

---

It's funny watching mickey try to play the part of the aware, caring, intelligent poster, who sees all, suspects all, and knows all. And while the guy yearns to be known for having the virtues of a saint, the alcohol on his breath and the lack of responsibility in his life tell quite a different story.

---

There you go, Dan. This is how much Rob respects your new rules.

Mickey, are you really without sin?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I'm sorry to say it, but I must. This forum worked well when it was only us dumb, recreational players who were here. The dumb, recreational players with the exception of me are all gone. And it's you smart guys who brought the trouble.

---

Afraid not, Alan. You used to 86 people just for disagreeing with you. It's not the AP's making all the trouble here. It's the confederacy of dunces. You guys continue to mock and degrade AP's every chance you get. It's pure hubris, ego, you can't stand it because you guys are a losers at gambling so in your minds everyone else, including AP's, should be losers.

Your buddy, blackhole portrays himself as a fairly well off guy who many times in his life has blown off thousands of dollars in casinos like it was nothing and had a blast doing it. That is an unsubstantiated claim. How come you guys haven't brow beaten him over it and demanded proof?

Mickey, you weren't here. I'm not even going to bother with your comments.

And it was the "smart guys" who put this forum out of control that prompted me to sign it over to Dan. I didn't want the liability of the insults and the libel anymore.

And while you are at it show some proof that you hardly go to the office.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

There you go twisting shit again. No one said they can see every card at the table next door.

---

That is all the haters do on this site....twist and change what was said to suit themselves. It's dishonest. It is essentially lying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

You don't have to see every card to know its better or worst than the table you are at.

---

100% correct! And mathematically proven so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

No bj counter would have any idea which table has the better count WITHOUT KNOWING 100% OF THE CARDS THAT HAVE BEEN PLAYED AT BOTH TABLES. Anything less constitutes guessing, with the remainder left up to hope.

---

100% wrong! And mathematically proven so.

Typing in caps doesn't make what you are saying any less wrong. This statement clearly shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

Always comes back to the same thing: "It just doesn't take long to figure out who knows what they are talking about and who is just talking". Singer clearly is in the 'just talking' crowd at least on this subject, which he has clearly demonstrated he doesn't have a clue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Mickey, you weren't here. I'm not even going to bother with your comments. And it was the "smart guys" who put this forum out of control that prompted me to sign it over to Dan. I didn't want the liability of the insults and the libel anymore.

---

No, it was your good friend, your old best buddy, Rob Singer, who put the forum out of control, and he continues to do so. From this forum he has libeled and smeared more people than carter has pills.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

I suspect Dan doesn't have the time to read every post to keep his forum policed up. I suggest a function where anyone can report a post as pure trolling. Rob will never abide by the new rules. He has never followed the rules on any forum he has participated in, hence he was given the boot. I think a function where a post can be reported, Dan can review it, make a decision, then either let the post stand or delete it and bar the person from the thread, would work pretty good.

---

It's funny watching mickey try to play the part of the aware, caring, intelligent poster, who sees all, suspects all, and knows all. And while the guy yearns to be known for having the virtues of a saint, the alcohol on his breath and the lack of responsibility in his life tell quite a different story.

---

There you go, Dan. This is how much Rob respects your new rules.

---

Name ONE THING that's not true about that mickey :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Mickey, are you really without sin?

---

Don't hand me that crap, Alan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

That is all the haters do on this site....twist and change what was said to suit themselves. It's dishonest. It is essentially lying.



100% correct! And mathematically proven so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

No bj counter would have any idea which table has the better count WITHOUT KNOWING 100% OF THE CARDS THAT HAVE BEEN PLAYED AT BOTH TABLES. Anything less constitutes guessing, with the remainder left up to hope.

---

100% wrong! And mathematically proven so.

Typing in caps doesn't make what you are saying any less wrong. This statement clearly shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

Always comes back to the same thing: "It just doesn't take long to figure out who knows what they are talking about and who is just talking". Singer clearly is in the 'just talking' crowd at least on this subject, which he has clearly demonstrated he doesn't have a clue.

---

So to the "guy" who has said he's "through posting on this forum because if all the insensitive comments"....more BS from an AP BSer.

However, I'm interested in you're comment about "mathematically proven so". Exactly where is that located, and if it's in your AP "PR Packet", I suggest you think of a new excuse.

It would have been better if any of you AP bsers would have taken any statistics classes in college before coming on forums trying to spread your load of crap. You might fare OK with somebody like Martha Stewart, who's shown she's far more comfortable taking in the nonsense of gay men than those normal guys who obviously intimidate her. But when you try to make up such nonsense and then whine about how it's "not your job to support any of it to anyone who questions you" then you lose.

Now comes the part when you and your ilk are being asked to explain how you know one table is better than the other, MATHEMATICALLY, when you know 100% of the cards on your table but have no idea how many cards you've missed at the other--or what they are. And while I understand that cocktail waitress asses getting in the way are irrelevant to someone as confused as you, please break your phony word about not responding to the brutes and splain how you see thru balls.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

So to the "guy" who has said he's "through posting on this forum because if all the insensitive comments"....more BS from an AP BSer.

However, I'm interested in you're comment about "mathematically proven so". Exactly where is that located, and if it's in your AP "PR Packet", I suggest you think of a new excuse.

It would have been better if any of you AP bsers would have taken any statistics classes in college before coming on forums trying to spread your load of crap. You might fare OK with somebody like Martha Stewart, who's shown she's far more comfortable taking in the nonsense of gay men than those normal guys who obviously intimidate her. But when you try to make up such nonsense and then whine about how it's "not your job to support any of it to anyone who questions you" then you lose.

Now comes the part when you and your ilk are being asked to explain how you know one table is better than the other, MATHEMATICALLY, when you know 100% of the cards on your table but have no idea how many cards you've missed at the other--or what they are. And while I understand that cocktail waitress asses getting in the way are irrelevant to someone as confused as you, please break your phony word about not responding to the brutes and splain how you see thru balls.

---

It isn't up to you whether I participate here or not. That is my decision, and I will do as I please. So just shut the fuck up you homophobic lying piece of shit.

Interesting that you yet again, injected some homophobic comment, where there was not even a hint of gay topic. You did that last week when I told the story of my former roommate/professional poker player, as well. You responded with some sort of homophobic comment, when the fact is there was no mention of anything even remotely having to do with gay topic in that story....and for good reason....my former roommate was and is not gay. He is straighter than you. I can even say he is FAR straighter than you because anyone as obsessed with homosexuality as you, bringing it up constantly, clearly is one huge closet case. It never fails to be the case, Nancy. ;)

It isn't my job to show you the math. 30 years ago when Stanford Wong took back-counting, which was nothing new and rebranded it with his 'fancy' name, "wonging", he laid out all the math for everyone to see, based on the effect of removal of cards seen, vs the IHA (initial house advantage). Today it is even easier to do...just plug the cards into any decent computer simulator and tell us what it says? :confused:

So here's the thing: you are walking past a 6 deck table that just happens to be ready to deal the first hand after a shuffle. One player and the dealer. So as you are standing there the player receives, 3,6 and the dealer a 4. Player doubles his nine according to basic strategy and pulls a 4. dealer draws 3, 6, and 5 for a 18. Based on those 7 cards, the player will be at a slight advantage on the next round. Again, this is proven by effect of removal vs IHA. There is no dispute...well not by anyone who has a clue. :rolleyes:

So let's change the scenario just a bit. You are walking by the same table and see the same cards. Only difference is 2 decks have been played that you didn't see. Absolutely nothing changes! Based on those 7 cards seen, the player will be at a slight advantage on the next round. Unseen cards are unseen cards....doesn't matter if they are unseen because they were played before you walked by, or they are unseen because they have yet to be played. Based only on the 7 cards seen....the player will be at a slight advantage on the next round!

Now, let's talk about missing a card or two here and there, whether this occurs while tracking a second table, or if you just happen to be distracted (in your case by a cute guy that you want to spew hate at and secretly fuck at the same time) and miss a card at your primary table. Makes absolutely no difference. Unseen cards are unseen cards. But the advantage is determined by what you do see.

But, never let the facts get in the way. Continue on with your blabbering about something you obviously know nothing about. :rolleyes:

That was an excellent explanation of unseen card effects. I haven't played blackjack in 25 years, and I know nothing, but that was cogent and clear. I don't see what can be argued with -- unseen cards tally as unseen cards. Eminently logical and obvious.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

That was an excellent explanation of unseen card effects. I haven't played blackjack in 25 years, and I know nothing, but that was cogent and clear. I don't see what can be argued with -- unseen cards tally as unseen cards. Eminently logical and obvious.

---

Thank you, redietz. You "don't see what can be argued with"?? You just wait. :rolleyes: Wait and see how the "anti-APers" twist everything said to suit themselves and make false arguments that aren't there. :cool:

More AP BS...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

I have decided I have had enough of this site.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbjb

I'm finished here.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

Over and out.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Don't let the door hit ya where the dog should have bit ya!

---

Evidently coach is schooling me on the meaning of "over and out." Wait, I'll look it up. Coach, did you look it up? It seems to refer to temporary radio or CB communication, using a blend of words that is militarily unacceptable, but that acknowledges reception of a message and turns the cue back to the other party, but with the assumption that the speaker is cutting off that particular communication for unstated reasons.

I didn't know the above was BS. I also didn't know I was an AP.

Coach, you having issues today? I don't normally recommend Wikipedia, but it's simpler than Webster's. Give it a look.

Oh yeah, over and out.

That`s pretty much all he does is looks up quotes from people....well can actually think of a few more things he "does" :confused:......what a life

2/22/2016 3:09pm

Thread: LoneStarHorse has asked to be removed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

LoneStarHorse has asked that I cancel his account. It has been canceled.

---

2/23/2016 10:26am

Thread: Hi All

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BiloxiBill

Have heard this is a great site..My name is Bill and am a professional horse player....I have earned 7 figures or more the last 15 years and consider myself an expert in my craft.I live very comfortably/extravagantly off my gambling winnings and consider it a blessing from God to earn my fortune doing exactly what I love.Nice to be here:cool:

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

That was an excellent explanation of unseen card effects. I haven't played blackjack in 25 years, and I know nothing, but that was cogent and clear. I don't see what can be argued with -- unseen cards tally as unseen cards. Eminently logical and obvious.

---

Leave it to you to blindly agree with some self-proclaimed AP who is now arguing against the math.

Kew, imagine how any video poker ap would fare if he or she (no, not a transgender freak) claimed they played based only on the removal of "cards seen" and not based on the removal of all cards dealt. The same goes for counting cards. You people claim to go strictly by the math, yet whenever you get called on your BS then suddenly there's room for error....and in this case, PLENTY of room for error in a game where the theoretical edge is minimal under perfect circumstances.

Thus, my point about how the lot of you would have been much better off taking statistics classes on your way to college degrees instead of fighting for crazy alternative lifestyle and making believe any of you know what you're talking about. And bringing up that fool Wong hardly helps your case. He's always been about self-perception in order to grow his commercial gaming sales.

Wise up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coach belly

2/22/2016 3:09pm

Thread: LoneStarHorse has asked to be removed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

LoneStarHorse has asked that I cancel his account. It has been canceled.

---

2/23/2016 10:26am

Thread: Hi All

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BiloxiBill

Have heard this is a great site..My name is Bill and am a professional horse player....I have earned 7 figures or more the last 15 years and consider myself an expert in my craft.I live very comfortably/extravagantly off my gambling winnings and consider it a blessing from God to earn my fortune doing exactly what I love.Nice to be here:cool:

---

---

Looks like lil Betty gets a bit braver when he has his man Rob here..lol....once again, slowly, I am not this clown you are referring to....I would never run and ask for my account to be closed due to a nutless wonder like yourself....maybe it`s difficult for you to believe there is more than one person out there that thinks you`re a weasely punk....believe it boy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

if he or she (no, not a transgender freak)

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

instead of fighting for crazy alternative lifestyle

---

More of the same. Your obsession when no one was talking about any such topic. You clearly are one conflicted closet case! Those that hate the most are always the biggest closet queens! It never, ever fails! The truth will set you free, Nancy!:D

The rest of your post....not even worth quoting, nor responding too. More gobbly gook! More denial of reality. More proof you live in your own fantasy world. At this point you are the mental patient sitting in the corner babbling to himself, completely irrelevant to anyone else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Your buddy, blackhole portrays himself as a fairly well off guy who many times in his life has blown off thousands of dollars in casinos like it was nothing and had a blast doing it. That is an unsubstantiated claim. How come you guys haven't brow beaten him over it and demanded proof?

---

Casinos don’t hand out W2’s after losing any amount of money that I could show you. They didn’t take any pictures of me holding a huge personal check paying off any markers at the cage. After losing 4K in a video poker machine it didn’t lock up and start playing music with big letters across the screen spelling “you’re a loser” so I could get a picture and post it online. And I certainly couldn’t claim loses on my tax returns without any proven wins that automatically get reported to the IRS.

I’m pretty sure I could have made a good first impression if Axel showed up. But, he was afraid I might mug him, or bother him endlessly for an AP move. In fact, if I liked Axel, he could have had a free RFB at my house whenever he visited the east coast. My good friend flies his own plane, and we could be in AC in 45 minutes.

Nickle and diming casinos, or making enough to survive is one thing. Making enough to live extravagantly like Biloxi Bill claims is another thing. (or was that part just another hyperbole also?) The bottom line is proving that you’re a loser long term in a casino is being proven every day by 99% of all gamblers. You guys are the 1% who claim the opposite and is why the other 99% don’t believe you.

Since this argument will never be proven here, the majority in my book rules.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackhole

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Your buddy, blackhole portrays himself as a fairly well off guy who many times in his life has blown off thousands of dollars in casinos like it was nothing and had a blast doing it. That is an unsubstantiated claim. How come you guys haven't brow beaten him over it and demanded proof?

---

Casinos don’t hand out W2’s after losing any amount of money that I could show you. They didn’t take any pictures of me holding a huge personal check paying off any markers at the cage. After losing 4K in a video poker machine it didn’t lock up and start playing music with big letters across the screen spelling “you’re a loser” so I could get a picture and post it online. And I certainly couldn’t claim loses on my tax returns without any proven wins that automatically get reported to the IRS.

I’m pretty sure I could have made a good first impression if Axel showed up. But, he was afraid I might mug him, or bother him endlessly for an AP move. In fact, if I liked Axel, he could have had a free RFB at my house whenever he visited the east coast. My good friend flies his own plane, and we could be in AC in 45 minutes.

Nickle and diming casinos, or making enough to survive is one thing. Making enough to live extravagantly like Biloxi Bill claims is another thing. (or was that part just another hyperbole also?) The bottom line is proving that you’re a loser long term in a casino is being proven every day by 99% of all gamblers. You guys are the 1% who claim the opposite and is why the other 99% don’t believe you.

Since this argument will never be proven here, the majority in my book rules.

---

I absolutely believe you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackhole

Casinos don’t hand out W2’s after losing any amount of money that I could show you. They didn’t take any pictures of me holding a huge personal check paying off any markers at the cage. After losing 4K in a video poker machine it didn’t lock up and start playing music with big letters across the screen spelling “you’re a loser” so I could get a picture and post it online.

---

Casinos provide win/loss statements both annually and for a specific trip or period, if you request it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackhole

Casinos don’t hand out W2’s after losing any amount of money that I could show you. They didn’t take any pictures of me holding a huge personal check paying off any markers at the cage. After losing 4K in a video poker machine it didn’t lock up and start playing music with big letters across the screen spelling “you’re a loser” so I could get a picture and post it online.

---

Casinos provide win/loss statements both annually and for a specific trip or period, if you request it.

---

I would be embarrassed to post one of those today.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackhole

I would be embarrassed to post one of those today.

---

I am not asking you to. I was just pointing out that your premise that no documentation was available if you wanted to, was incorrect.

It's an anonymous message board. I take people at their word, until I have a reason not to. This most often means that I find them posting things that are just nonsense (like Singer often does) and even then, I would never ask anyone to prove anything. That is NOT how an anonymous message board works. I just write them off as "one of those people that likes to talk, but doesn't have a clue as to what they are actually talking about" (like Singer)

As per you "being embarrassed to post one of those today"....I take it that means you lost big. I have no problem with that (or believing that). I hope you at least enjoyed yourself. :) Believe it or not...AP's are not anti-recreational gambler. :rolleyes: We want (need) you to keep enjoying yourselves. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

As per you "being embarrassed to post one of those today"....I take it that means you lost big.

---

It didn’t mean I lost big. I predominantly play poker tournaments when I go to casinos. Very rare I even play cash games. My gambling days are long gone. My crazy win/lose statements would have to go back to the Castle, Taj, and Trump Plaza days. Although I did get a little carried away during my last visit to Vegas, it didn't even come close to the old days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

And while you are at it show some proof that you hardly go to the office.

---

818-264-1555 Call and ask for Tony. If he's there, ask him about the package.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

So here's the thing: you are walking past a 6 deck table that just happens to be ready to deal the first hand after a shuffle. One player and the dealer. So as you are standing there the player receives, 3,6 and the dealer a 4. Player doubles his nine according to basic strategy and pulls a 4. dealer draws 3, 6, and 5 for a 18. Based on those 7 cards, the player will be at a slight advantage on the next round. Again, this is proven by effect of removal vs IHA. There is no dispute...well not by anyone who has a clue. :rolleyes:

---

But you are not standing by the table. You're sitting at another table. And you can't see the cards on the other table. No you can't. I went to Mirage (one of your approved casinos) and the tables were too far apart. And then I went to Bellagio and sat at a fucking table, and I couldn't see the cards at the next table.

We don't believe you have super vision or xray vision.

Now, if you would like to demonstrate it, I'll be there to watch. I will protect your identity Clark Kent. Just show me you can see.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

So here's the thing: you are walking past a 6 deck table that just happens to be ready to deal the first hand after a shuffle. One player and the dealer. So as you are standing there the player receives, 3,6 and the dealer a 4. Player doubles his nine according to basic strategy and pulls a 4. dealer draws 3, 6, and 5 for a 18. Based on those 7 cards, the player will be at a slight advantage on the next round. Again, this is proven by effect of removal vs IHA. There is no dispute...well not by anyone who has a clue. :rolleyes:

---

But you are not standing by the table. You're sitting at another table. And you can't see the cards on the other table. No you can't.

---

Another example of your dishonesty, shyster Alan. I post an answer to a different concern about how a player knows he has an advantage, when not seeing all the cards, and specifically how few cards you actually need to see, to determine an advantage and you take that answer and post, and turn it to a completely different situation that wasn't being discussed. You have proven you are one dishonest journalist alright!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Now, if you would like to demonstrate it, I'll be there to watch. I will protect your identity Clark Kent. Just show me you can see.

---

I would never, ever do this, and you will be hard pressed to find any AP that would participate in what you are proposing. That you even think I would consider this proves you have no concept of AP, or the AP mentality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

So to the "guy" who has said he's "through posting on this forum because if all the insensitive comments"....more BS from an AP BSer.

However, I'm interested in you're comment about "mathematically proven so". Exactly where is that located, and if it's in your AP "PR Packet", I suggest you think of a new excuse.

It would have been better if any of you AP bsers would have taken any statistics classes in college before coming on forums trying to spread your load of crap. You might fare OK with somebody like Martha Stewart, who's shown she's far more comfortable taking in the nonsense of gay men than those normal guys who obviously intimidate her. But when you try to make up such nonsense and then whine about how it's "not your job to support any of it to anyone who questions you" then you lose.

Now comes the part when you and your ilk are being asked to explain how you know one table is better than the other, MATHEMATICALLY, when you know 100% of the cards on your table but have no idea how many cards you've missed at the other--or what they are. And while I understand that cocktail waitress asses getting in the way are irrelevant to someone as confused as you, please break your phony word about not responding to the brutes and splain how you see thru balls.

---

It isn't up to you whether I participate here or not. That is my decision, and I will do as I please. So just shut the fuck up you homophobic lying piece of shit.

Interesting that you yet again, injected some homophobic comment, where there was not even a hint of gay topic. You did that last week when I told the story of my former roommate/professional poker player, as well. You responded with some sort of homophobic comment, when the fact is there was no mention of anything even remotely having to do with gay topic in that story....and for good reason....my former roommate was and is not gay. He is straighter than you. I can even say he is FAR straighter than you because anyone as obsessed with homosexuality as you, bringing it up constantly, clearly is one huge closet case. It never fails to be the case, Nancy. ;)

It isn't my job to show you the math. 30 years ago when Stanford Wong took back-counting, which was nothing new and rebranded it with his 'fancy' name, "wonging", he laid out all the math for everyone to see, based on the effect of removal of cards seen, vs the IHA (initial house advantage). Today it is even easier to do...just plug the cards into any decent computer simulator and tell us what it says? :confused:

So here's the thing: you are walking past a 6 deck table that just happens to be ready to deal the first hand after a shuffle. One player and the dealer. So as you are standing there the player receives, 3,6 and the dealer a 4. Player doubles his nine according to basic strategy and pulls a 4. dealer draws 3, 6, and 5 for a 18. Based on those 7 cards, the player will be at a slight advantage on the next round. Again, this is proven by effect of removal vs IHA. There is no dispute...well not by anyone who has a clue. :rolleyes:

So let's change the scenario just a bit. You are walking by the same table and see the same cards. Only difference is 2 decks have been played that you didn't see. Absolutely nothing changes! Based on those 7 cards seen, the player will be at a slight advantage on the next round. Unseen cards are unseen cards....doesn't matter if they are unseen because they were played before you walked by, or they are unseen because they have yet to be played. Based only on the 7 cards seen....the player will be at a slight advantage on the next round!

Now, let's talk about missing a card or two here and there, whether this occurs while tracking a second table, or if you just happen to be distracted (in your case by a cute guy that you want to spew hate at and secretly fuck at the same time) and miss a card at your primary table. Makes absolutely no difference. Unseen cards are unseen cards. But the advantage is determined by what you do see.

But, never let the facts get in the way. Continue on with your blabbering about something you obviously know nothing about. :rolleyes:

---

Kewl-I need some clarification on this. So you walk past a table (the one that is 2 decks in) and see a slight advantage based solely upon those 7 cards you see. How can you assume that the deck is positive based upon that small sample size? What if the deck was -15 before that deal? It seems to me that you would be deluding yourself that the deck is positive. I understand (don't necessarily agree with) the concept of the unseen cards and penetration, but I don't like the unknown and you are making quite an assumption into that unknown.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by regnis

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

So to the "guy" who has said he's "through posting on this forum because if all the insensitive comments"....more BS from an AP BSer.

However, I'm interested in you're comment about "mathematically proven so". Exactly where is that located, and if it's in your AP "PR Packet", I suggest you think of a new excuse.

It would have been better if any of you AP bsers would have taken any statistics classes in college before coming on forums trying to spread your load of crap. You might fare OK with somebody like Martha Stewart, who's shown she's far more comfortable taking in the nonsense of gay men than those normal guys who obviously intimidate her. But when you try to make up such nonsense and then whine about how it's "not your job to support any of it to anyone who questions you" then you lose.

Now comes the part when you and your ilk are being asked to explain how you know one table is better than the other, MATHEMATICALLY, when you know 100% of the cards on your table but have no idea how many cards you've missed at the other--or what they are. And while I understand that cocktail waitress asses getting in the way are irrelevant to someone as confused as you, please break your phony word about not responding to the brutes and splain how you see thru balls.

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It isn't up to you whether I participate here or not. That is my decision, and I will do as I please. So just shut the fuck up you homophobic lying piece of shit.

Interesting that you yet again, injected some homophobic comment, where there was not even a hint of gay topic. You did that last week when I told the story of my former roommate/professional poker player, as well. You responded with some sort of homophobic comment, when the fact is there was no mention of anything even remotely having to do with gay topic in that story....and for good reason....my former roommate was and is not gay. He is straighter than you. I can even say he is FAR straighter than you because anyone as obsessed with homosexuality as you, bringing it up constantly, clearly is one huge closet case. It never fails to be the case, Nancy. ;)

It isn't my job to show you the math. 30 years ago when Stanford Wong took back-counting, which was nothing new and rebranded it with his 'fancy' name, "wonging", he laid out all the math for everyone to see, based on the effect of removal of cards seen, vs the IHA (initial house advantage). Today it is even easier to do...just plug the cards into any decent computer simulator and tell us what it says? :confused:

So here's the thing: you are walking past a 6 deck table that just happens to be ready to deal the first hand after a shuffle. One player and the dealer. So as you are standing there the player receives, 3,6 and the dealer a 4. Player doubles his nine according to basic strategy and pulls a 4. dealer draws 3, 6, and 5 for a 18. Based on those 7 cards, the player will be at a slight advantage on the next round. Again, this is proven by effect of removal vs IHA. There is no dispute...well not by anyone who has a clue. :rolleyes:

So let's change the scenario just a bit. You are walking by the same table and see the same cards. Only difference is 2 decks have been played that you didn't see. Absolutely nothing changes! Based on those 7 cards seen, the player will be at a slight advantage on the next round. Unseen cards are unseen cards....doesn't matter if they are unseen because they were played before you walked by, or they are unseen because they have yet to be played. Based only on the 7 cards seen....the player will be at a slight advantage on the next round!

Now, let's talk about missing a card or two here and there, whether this occurs while tracking a second table, or if you just happen to be distracted (in your case by a cute guy that you want to spew hate at and secretly fuck at the same time) and miss a card at your primary table. Makes absolutely no difference. Unseen cards are unseen cards. But the advantage is determined by what you do see.

But, never let the facts get in the way. Continue on with your blabbering about something you obviously know nothing about. :rolleyes:

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Kewl-I need some clarification on this. So you walk past a table (the one that is 2 decks in) and see a slight advantage based solely upon those 7 cards you see. How can you assume that the deck is positive based upon that small sample size? What if the deck was -15 before that deal? It seems to me that you would be deluding yourself that the deck is positive. I understand (don't necessarily agree with) the concept of the unseen cards and penetration, but I don't like the unknown and you are making quite an assumption into that unknown.

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What if the count was +15 before you walked by?

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Originally Posted by blackhole

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Your buddy, blackhole portrays himself as a fairly well off guy who many times in his life has blown off thousands of dollars in casinos like it was nothing and had a blast doing it. That is an unsubstantiated claim. How come you guys haven't brow beaten him over it and demanded proof?

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Casinos don’t hand out W2’s after losing any amount of money that I could show you. They didn’t take any pictures of me holding a huge personal check paying off any markers at the cage. After losing 4K in a video poker machine it didn’t lock up and start playing music with big letters across the screen spelling “you’re a loser” so I could get a picture and post it online. And I certainly couldn’t claim loses on my tax returns without any proven wins that automatically get reported to the IRS.

I’m pretty sure I could have made a good first impression if Axel showed up. But, he was afraid I might mug him, or bother him endlessly for an AP move. In fact, if I liked Axel, he could have had a free RFB at my house whenever he visited the east coast. My good friend flies his own plane, and we could be in AC in 45 minutes.

Nickle and diming casinos, or making enough to survive is one thing. Making enough to live extravagantly like Biloxi Bill claims is another thing. (or was that part just another hyperbole also?) The bottom line is proving that you’re a loser long term in a casino is being proven every day by 99% of all gamblers. You guys are the 1% who claim the opposite and is why the other 99% don’t believe you.

Since this argument will never be proven here, the majority in my book rules.

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I was not afraid you would mug me(I have met with people who I was way more leery about than I am you), I don't get the feeling you are a criminal and never suggested that, I dont even think you are a bad guy in RL. It was a combination of things. I am not agiasnt meeting you at some point. AAMOF, had I known you would have taken it this way I would have made more of an effort, I somewhat regret not doing so.

I like this. I can bait kew with a few simple words that dance around "penis"! :)

It's also good watching how these "AP's" are trying to convince everyone else that they can back into a count. Again....statistics class. Whenever anyone has no choice other than to claim they formed a conclusion by going thru the back door (easy kew....) it's only because they had no idea how to work the problem with the formula.

This us what kew, etc. are trying here, and they're pretending "being in the vicinity" and "making educated guesses" are AP vehicles. However, they clearly understand no bj count is worth beans unless they have seen 100% of the cards. In fact, we're all aware of that fact.

Kew, give us another squealy rant. Only this time, keep your shirt on.