https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUu-SbChCeY
Nice mug...good lord, take your meds!
Or just read an MDawg post or watch a Christopher Mitchell video.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliot
Of course they may be the same person. Not sure which one’s claims are more outrageous.
Nice work by Eliot.
I’m a little surprised that Eliot went out of his way to make this 18-minute video “How to Identify a Baccarat Scammer, Fraudster, Liar, Troll or Delusional Bragger.”
Obviously, you felt the need to interject yourself into the endless back and forth nonsense that takes place between these meaningless foolish members on these forums. You actually spoke as if one of these ridiculous bets would even take place between these fools. Such as the player can’t choose the casino where he wants to prove his talents, the casino might be in collusion with the player to win, throw darts at a board to pick casino, that’s only a few of the stupidest demands I’ve read. Believe me there were much worse demands that I don't feel like finding.
As an alleged professional AP or whatever it is you claim about yourself, this is an embarrassment to all the people who viewed you in a more logical mature view.
Like you said early on in your recording:
“Fred may be a winner exactly as he claimed. So what?"
"And if Fred Lost, so what?”
Why not take you own advice and shut the fuck up? So what? Who the fuck cares one way or the other except a few loser assholes?
P.S. If this was just a bullshit effort to bring more hits to your advertised “Advance AP Website” the whole time you’re speaking about trolls, I guess I understand. If not, you’re just another fucking idiot that fits right in with the rest of them. Including your pal Shank who is always looking for any type of traffic to direct dumb USA players to off shore illegal casinos.
Nice work to change his photo from mental patient face to douchebag face.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
A man's vanity is more fragile that you might think.
There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors.
What will he change it to next?
He put his face up on the internet. How about you, shitbag coward. Put your fucking mug up, bitch, or you are a dirty little stinking coward forever. Same goes for blackstinkhole. You two cowards hide behind phony names and act tough. The truth is you are both a couple of crying sniveling little bitches that can't beat the flies off your asses.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyNice work to change his photo from mental patient face to douchebag face.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
A man's vanity is more fragile that you might think.
There comes a time when you look into the mirror and you realize that what you see is all that you will ever be. And then you accept it. Or you kill yourself. Or you stop looking in mirrors.
What will he change it to next?
A noted gambling expert has a video on youtube about baccarat scammers to educate the masses on this phenomenon. The video was not made just for members of an obscure gambling forum but for everyone around the world. Here's the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUu-SbChCeY
Yep, exactly. Is there another casino game with as many scamming posers as baccarat? Maybe roulette in France.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
I'll put my picture up when any other member agrees to have their photo taken with me and have it posted here. You are eligible too whitey, and after the photo we can scrap.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
Does Eliot like girls...or are there any girls that dig him?
It can’t get more coincidental then what’s going on between both these foolish forums with Baccarat, Mdawg, the rest of the combined fools, and Eliot’s You Tube about the same exact topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
You know what they say? “timing is everything”
You might have a better chance of hitting 14 Baccarat Ties in a row than the timing of the above events coinciding again.
For the record who the fuck Is Eliot anyhow? What makes his comments or You Tube recording any more special than any other bullshit artist on these forums or anywhere else for that matter? Are his words considered “Words of Wisdom”? Why should anyone take what he thinks anymore than anyone else? Why does he get to make a You Tube for the masses around the world on this subject? Just who the fuck is this guy? Can anyone put up some facts why Eliot is someone special on this subject and we should listen and accept what he says as confirmed fact?
I read Eliot was a gambling mathematician? I also read he was a big-time loser who tried to bribe Casinos to back him because of his AP knowledge. Mike S. is a mathematician also and look at how much of an asshole he is. He should have grabbed that BINGO money he hit from crooked offshore casinos and faded into the darkness.
If Mike S. is someone to look up to, I guess why not Eliot. How about Tasha?
You mean deul.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach belly
You obviously got your take on Jacobsen from Tewlj. But you obviously missed the part about tewlj being pissed at Jacobsen for being a successful consultant to casino execs. You should go to Amazon and buy his book "Advanced Advantage Play."Quote:
Originally Posted by blackholeIt can’t get more coincidental then what’s going on between both these foolish forums with Baccarat, Mdawg, the rest of the combined fools, and Eliot’s You Tube about the same exact topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
You know what they say? “timing is everything”
You might have a better chance of hitting 14 Baccarat Ties in a row than the timing of the above events coinciding again.
For the record who the fuck Is Eliot anyhow? What makes his comments or You Tube recording any more special than any other bullshit artist on these forums or anywhere else for that matter? Are his words considered “Words of Wisdom”? Why should anyone take what he thinks anymore than anyone else? Why does he get to make a You Tube for the masses around the world on this subject? Just who the fuck is this guy? Can anyone put up some facts why Eliot is someone special on this subject and we should listen and accept what he says as confirmed fact?
I read Eliot was a gambling mathematician? I also read he was a big-time loser who tried to bribe Casinos to back him because of his AP knowledge. Mike S. is a mathematician also and look at how much of an asshole he is. He should have grabbed that BINGO money he hit from crooked offshore casinos and faded into the darkness.
If Mike S. is someone to look up to, I guess why not Eliot. How about Tasha?
Tewlj decided to label Jacobsen as a failed gambler because he moved on from it. But when you are a PHD you have a lot more options than just gambling. Its like saying Thorp was a failed gambler because he moved on from blackjack. Tewlj has a high school diploma. What the hell does he have to move on to?
Eliot is and has always been the real deal. His old website was a bonanza of knowledge for those who understand how to use it. And saved a lot of money and time for people chasing things they thought seemed like plays but they didn’t do the math on. No one can argue he is not a mathematical genius.
I know some bitched that he gave away too much and hurt some AP’s but the guy was honest about what he did. And admitted BJ wasn’t for him. How many have been as honest as Eliot has been with exactly what he was doing? Mike can’t and we all know he worked for the V and never fully explained what he did there and why it didn’t last. And look at Dancer and his relationships with casinos over the years.
And for the most telling thing of all, you can’t find a place or time I said a negative things about Eliot. It may not mean much but there aren’t many people in this community you can say that about.��
You’re getting pretty good at this cock holstering thing Mickey, from Rob to Trump to EJ now, a diverse cast of eccentric characters. Becoming a consultant is a funny way of moving on from gambling.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmYou obviously got your take on Jacobsen from Tewlj. But you obviously missed the part about tewlj being pissed at Jacobsen for being a successful consultant to casino execs. You should go to Amazon and buy his book "Advanced Advantage Play."Quote:
Originally Posted by blackholeIt can’t get more coincidental then what’s going on between both these foolish forums with Baccarat, Mdawg, the rest of the combined fools, and Eliot’s You Tube about the same exact topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
You know what they say? “timing is everything”
You might have a better chance of hitting 14 Baccarat Ties in a row than the timing of the above events coinciding again.
For the record who the fuck Is Eliot anyhow? What makes his comments or You Tube recording any more special than any other bullshit artist on these forums or anywhere else for that matter? Are his words considered “Words of Wisdom”? Why should anyone take what he thinks anymore than anyone else? Why does he get to make a You Tube for the masses around the world on this subject? Just who the fuck is this guy? Can anyone put up some facts why Eliot is someone special on this subject and we should listen and accept what he says as confirmed fact?
I read Eliot was a gambling mathematician? I also read he was a big-time loser who tried to bribe Casinos to back him because of his AP knowledge. Mike S. is a mathematician also and look at how much of an asshole he is. He should have grabbed that BINGO money he hit from crooked offshore casinos and faded into the darkness.
If Mike S. is someone to look up to, I guess why not Eliot. How about Tasha?
Tewlj decided to label Jacobsen as a failed gambler because he moved on from it. But when you are a PHD you have a lot more options than just gambling. Its like saying Thorp was a failed gambler because he moved on from blackjack. Tewlj has a high school diploma. What the hell does he have to move on to?
Mickey, why are you always trying to pick a fight? You need to relax a bit, chill a little. Less stress...good for your heart.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
I am not even sure when Eliot's "playing career' was. I believe before my time, or at least before I became active on gambling related forums. So I didn't have any real interactions with Eliot. My opinions were influenced strongly by people in the BJ community and there was a very strong consensus that Eliot was a traitor, including several players that I network with personally, who have never steered me wrong about anything.
Some of them swear Eliot game names, information and descriptions of players to the "enemy". Eliot denies this. I read "Advanced Advantage Play." and found it useful. Learned some things. I didn't feel like that book was meant just for casino consumption, but people in the industry (the enemy) probably learned some things as well. Now Eliot's website and seminar, were targeting the casino industry. Seems to me I read a disclosure that you had to be in the casino industry to attend, although I know of AP's that attended.
One thing I liked is Eliot had a bit of Bill Zender philosophy in that he seemed to imply casinos and the industry should stop obsessing over card counters as their were much bigger fish to fry. As a card counter, I like that philosophy. But I suppose some of the hole-carders in various games didn't appreciate it. ;)
In the last year, I have had a chance to interact with Eliot a little bit on forums and he doesn't seem like a terrible guy. It is my understanding Eliot is retired now from gambling /gaming protection and these areas, so I wish him well. I wish him peace and happiness.
Bob Dancer was a consultant to casinos WHILE he was selling his shit to gamblers. He wrote about his consulting business. He gave seminars to casino execs.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcapYou’re getting pretty good at this cock holstering thing Mickey, from Rob to Trump to EJ now, a diverse cast of eccentric characters. Becoming a consultant is a funny way of moving on from gambling.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmYou obviously got your take on Jacobsen from Tewlj. But you obviously missed the part about tewlj being pissed at Jacobsen for being a successful consultant to casino execs. You should go to Amazon and buy his book "Advanced Advantage Play."Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhole
Tewlj decided to label Jacobsen as a failed gambler because he moved on from it. But when you are a PHD you have a lot more options than just gambling. Its like saying Thorp was a failed gambler because he moved on from blackjack. Tewlj has a high school diploma. What the hell does he have to move on to?
David Sklansky has sold a ton of books, not just on poker, but all around gambling. He was also Bob Stupak's consultant on the math of gambling games. He also was consultant to Lyle Berman of Grand Casinos. This goes back to about 2000 but the Grand Casinos in Mississippi put in a ton of $5 denom IGT Vision machines which were highly exploited by hustlers. Many making 20K a month. Berman got Sklansky to visit and look the situation over. Sklansky went down and took a look. He told Berman the only solution was to get rid of the Vision Series which Berman promptly did. I've don't know that I've ever seen any criticism of Sklansky for working both sides of the fence.
And, of course, Shack worked for Venetian. So he worked both sides of the fence.
So was becoming a consultant funny for these guys too?
You need to ask Coach Smelly about always picking fights, not me.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJMickey, why are you always trying to pick a fight? You need to relax a bit, chill a little. Less stress...good for your heart.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
I am not even sure when Eliot's "playing career' was. I believe before my time, or at least before I became active on gambling related forums. So I didn't have any real interactions with Eliot. My opinions were influenced strongly by people in the BJ community and there was a very strong consensus that Eliot was a traitor, including several players that I network with personally, who have never steered me wrong about anything.
Some of them swear Eliot game names, information and descriptions of players to the "enemy". Eliot denies this. I read "Advanced Advantage Play." and found it useful. Learned some things. I didn't feel like that book was meant just for casino consumption, but people in the industry (the enemy) probably learned some things as well. Now Eliot's website and seminar, were targeting the casino industry. Seems to me I read a disclosure that you had to be in the casino industry to attend, although I know of AP's that attended.
One thing I liked is Eliot had a bit of Bill Zender philosophy in that he seemed to imply casinos and the industry should stop obsessing over card counters as their were much bigger fish to fry. As a card counter, I like that philosophy. But I suppose some of the hole-carders in various games didn't appreciate it. ;)
In the last year, I have had a chance to interact with Eliot a little bit on forums and he doesn't seem like a terrible guy. It is my understanding Eliot is retired now from gambling /gaming protection and these areas, so I wish him well. I wish him peace and happiness.
Yes. Sketchy in all cases. Dancer’s rep is the epitome of sketchy stab anyone if it makes you a dollar. Him and Rubin. And like I said, funny way of “moving on from gambling,” as it wasn’t moving on from gambling like you said he did.
The thing about gambling for a living is its a grind. If you are doing it right its boring as hell. Its boring because you are always playing within the means of your bankroll. The risk of ruin is somewhere between slim and none. It's production work. Some people are made for it and some aren't. You can study gambling all you want and become very good at it. But many will find they don't like the grind and move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcap
But moving on doesn't mean you have to forget gambling altogether. Guys like Braun, Thorp, Jacobsen seem to get a big kick out of solving the mathmatical puzzles the games present. But that doesn't mean they have to go to grinding it out in the casinos.
Max Rubin and his work with Barona as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmBob Dancer was a consultant to casinos WHILE he was selling his shit to gamblers. He wrote about his consulting business. He gave seminars to casino execs.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcapYou’re getting pretty good at this cock holstering thing Mickey, from Rob to Trump to EJ now, a diverse cast of eccentric characters. Becoming a consultant is a funny way of moving on from gambling.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
David Sklansky has sold a ton of books, not just on poker, but all around gambling. He was also Bob Stupak's consultant on the math of gambling games. He also was consultant to Lyle Berman of Grand Casinos. This goes back to about 2000 but the Grand Casinos in Mississippi put in a ton of $5 denom IGT Vision machines which were highly exploited by hustlers. Many making 20K a month. Berman got Sklansky to visit and look the situation over. Sklansky went down and took a look. He told Berman the only solution was to get rid of the Vision Series which Berman promptly did. I've don't know that I've ever seen any criticism of Sklansky for working both sides of the fence.
And, of course, Shack worked for Venetian. So he worked both sides of the fence.
So was becoming a consultant funny for these guys too?
I missed this as I just responded to Mickey. Why did Shack get banned from the BJ Ball for working at Venetian but Dancer gets invited every year? Especially considering his involvement with South Point. And there's many mentions of Dancer screwing other AP's out of opportunities (Revel promo) while there is no evidence that Shack did.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcap
I have recently developed a new theory about coach belly. He is very anti-AP. He takes every position against AP's. Any AP claiming anything even supported by math, he challenges and takes a position against. And every player spouting any kind of theory that defies math and reality, he supports. All your losing gambling practices, martingales, and progressives. Overcoming -EV with hocus pokus and rabbit's feet. Coach belly is all for.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
Now it could be that he is just a failed AP on some level and is now very anti-AP. But I am starting to think it is more along the lines of he is pro-casino industry, which would naturally put him anti-AP. Perhaps he works in the industry. Probably not low level like a dealer, those guys don't care. Maybe some kind of management that makes him a company guy and anti-AP. And that would explain his supporting known losing strategies. Endorse losing play, more money for the casino industry and employees. And if not him, maybe his wife or other family member has the association with the casino industry. And he lives right outside of Atlantic City which fits for someone working in the industry.
He's just an asshole troll that tries to play "prosecutor."Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJI have recently developed a new theory about coach belly. He is very anti-AP. He takes every position against AP's. Any AP claiming anything even supported by math, he challenges and takes a position against. And every player spouting any kind of theory that defies math and reality, he supports. All your losing gambling practices, martingales, and progressives. Overcoming -EV with hocus pokus and rabbit's feet. Coach belly is all for.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
Now it could be that he is just a failed AP on some level and is now very anti-AP. But I am starting to think it is more along the lines of he is pro-casino industry, which would naturally put him anti-AP. Perhaps he works in the industry Probably not low level like a dealer, those guys don't care. Maybe some kind of management that makes him a company guy and anti-AP. And that would explain his supporting known losing strategies. Endorsee losing play, more money for the casino industry and employees. And if not him, maybe his wife or other family member has the association with the casino industry. And he lives right outside of Atlantic City which fits for someone working in the industry.
And there is THAT too! :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjbHe's just an asshole troll that tries to play "prosecutor."Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJI have recently developed a new theory about coach belly. He is very anti-AP. He takes every position against AP's. Any AP claiming anything even supported by math, he challenges and takes a position against. And every player spouting any kind of theory that defies math and reality, he supports. All your losing gambling practices, martingales, and progressives. Overcoming -EV with hocus pokus and rabbit's feet. Coach belly is all for.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
Now it could be that he is just a failed AP on some level and is now very anti-AP. But I am starting to think it is more along the lines of he is pro-casino industry, which would naturally put him anti-AP. Perhaps he works in the industry Probably not low level like a dealer, those guys don't care. Maybe some kind of management that makes him a company guy and anti-AP. And that would explain his supporting known losing strategies. Endorsee losing play, more money for the casino industry and employees. And if not him, maybe his wife or other family member has the association with the casino industry. And he lives right outside of Atlantic City which fits for someone working in the industry.
It appears you are well versed on Eliot and his past. I assume your knowledge about his talents were gathered more during your gambling years. Can you give an example of how his bonanza of information website actually helped you defeat the casinos? Was his math information different from Shanks? Shouldn’t they both come to the same conclusions. After all the math is the math.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boz
You say for fact, you never said a negative thing about Eliot makes him a stand out in this community. Please explain why your opinion is worth more than mine or anyone else’s here?
Also, after reading all these posts about all these AP’s who tried to sell their different information to casinos says a lot about the AP community. I guess when their plays start drying up, they’ll do and sell anything for a buck. Sounds more like desperation to me instead of strong profits.
Our plays haven't dried up and I certainly wouldn't help any casino.
What do some of the members think of the late Howard Schwartz who was the marketing director at the Gamblers Book Club for 31 years? He also wrote:
A casino pit management and supervisor training manual.
Also, he wrote:
A card counter course for casino pit boss and floor supervisor.
Years ago I actually visited that store on Charleston and 11th many times before they moved.
Keep moving those goalposts mick. Anyway I missed the self imposed arbitrer of who is real and how real they are has chimed im so I guess that’s the end of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmThe thing about gambling for a living is its a grind. If you are doing it right its boring as hell. Its boring because you are always playing within the means of your bankroll. The risk of ruin is somewhere between slim and none. It's production work. Some people are made for it and some aren't. You can study gambling all you want and become very good at it. But many will find they don't like the grind and move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcap
But moving on doesn't mean you have to forget gambling altogether. Guys like Braun, Thorp, Jacobsen seem to get a big kick out of solving the mathmatical puzzles the games present. But that doesn't mean they have to go to grinding it out in the casinos.
I am a big Albert Brooks fan. Just seeing that guy now cracks me up. So one of my favorites was a movie from the 70's or 80s's, Lost in America. Anyone remember the 'Nest Egg Principal'? (clip below). I have always thought of a bankroll as the nest egg. As long as you have the bankroll (nest egg), you can go on, and overcome negative variance. The bankroll or nest egg = future income. And you protect the bankroll (nest egg) by always playing to the smallest risk of ruin, like mickey said, between slim and none is good.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
So in the clip, the wife, Julie Haggerty, woke up in the middle of the night in Las Vegas and gambled away the nest egg.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE
Right outside NYC...not AC.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackholeIt appears you are well versed on Eliot and his past. I assume your knowledge about his talents were gathered more during your gambling years. Can you give an example of how his bonanza of information website actually helped you defeat the casinos? Was his math information different from Shanks? Shouldn’t they both come to the same conclusions. After all the math is the math.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boz
You say for fact, you never said a negative thing about Eliot makes him a stand out in this community. Please explain why your opinion is worth more than mine or anyone else’s here?
Also, after reading all these posts about all these AP’s who tried to sell their different information to casinos says a lot about the AP community. I guess when their plays start drying up, they’ll do and sell anything for a buck. Sounds more like desperation to me instead of strong profits.
I’ll try to answer. My opinion is worth the same as everyone else’s here without history on context, not much. But when you combine multiple people who one can tell know what they are talking about, things have a high probability of being true. That happens over time, not with a few posts. And when personal experience with what you read turns out to be correct, credibility goes up. It’s why something Mickey says about a game has more credibility than something a new poster says. Just simple common sense. But in my case, my opinion can be accepted at what exactly you make it worth.
As for the info, in my case it was saving me money more than making me money. I used to play a lot of BJ in my early trips to Vegas. I played BS and always looked for ways to play for as little cost as possible without going into counting for entertainment value. I tried counting on a basic system and quickly realized it wasn’t worth it to me. I’ve never hid what I played and it’s what brought me to these sites years ago. I had the dumb idea some side bets could be beaten by simple counting too. Eliot’s work showed me I was correct that they could be on one in particular, but it took much more than I thought it did and knew again it wasn’t for me. And on another I was way off in my uneducated thoughts on the bet.
As for comparing him to Mike, I personally used both and have no idea if they ever came to different conclusions on a game, but that is not even what is being talked about here.
And I’ll tell you something I’ve told you many times. I’m grateful for the people I’ve met (even if I never actually MET them) on these sites and made money from it. And no one has ever tried to take advantage of me or scam me. It is not life changing money, but it’s definitely saved me at times and made me money others by me simply being willing to listen and learn.
And it’s why I can easily see something as probably Bullshit right from the start. Common sense is a valuable tool in life and can’t be taught. Some need to use it more.
I guess that makes me fortunate always being able to view and treat casinos as pure entertainment win or lose. More like playing James Bond occasionally always being treated like royalty.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boz
It never crossed my mind once to go to casinos with wife and friends with the intentions of eventually grinding out some type of hourly wage over time.
I stumbled into these forums way past the prime of my gambling days (except for poker) and found enjoyment in the stupidity being posted. I try to interject doubt and common sense like you suggest is a valuable tool.
Not sure why anyone would search down anonymous gambling forums for advice. I understand when the hopeless are looking for any way out, but certainly not a successful business man. How were you even able to find the time in order to make AP’ing worth it. I was lucky if I was able to get 6 hours of sleep in my day.
Not sure what you meant when you said your anonymous AP friends definitely saved you at times. My opinion is without taking AP life on full time and living in Vegas or close to lots of action, making yourself available 24/7, for whatever might be going on, for however much time a play might last is a full-time commitment.
Were you randomly traveling to casinos when your business allowed you some time off to scrap up a few extra AP bucks? I understand just because it’s an AP move doesn’t guarantee a win anytime you go. Did you add all your sessions together to eventually gain the math expectations?
At least I could confirm we agree on this statement you made. "Common sense is a valuable tool in life and can't be taught. Some need to use it more."
Heard of scam where an asian team would talk to someone playing Madonna and would sneakily switch the bet level and hope the ploppy wouldn't notice.
I don't move goal posts. I just tell the truth. You should try it sometime.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcapKeep moving those goalposts mick. Anyway I missed the self imposed arbitrer of who is real and how real they are has chimed im so I guess that’s the end of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmThe thing about gambling for a living is its a grind. If you are doing it right its boring as hell. Its boring because you are always playing within the means of your bankroll. The risk of ruin is somewhere between slim and none. It's production work. Some people are made for it and some aren't. You can study gambling all you want and become very good at it. But many will find they don't like the grind and move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcap
But moving on doesn't mean you have to forget gambling altogether. Guys like Braun, Thorp, Jacobsen seem to get a big kick out of solving the mathmatical puzzles the games present. But that doesn't mean they have to go to grinding it out in the casinos.
Creators.Quote:
Originally Posted by radicalwin
Blackhole, the level of your lunacy knows no bounds. By your logic it's better to lose....because if you win then all you did was scrape up a few AP bucks. Stupid ass logic but hey, to each his own. Your way of gambling is just ass backwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackholeI guess that makes me fortunate always being able to view and treat casinos as pure entertainment win or lose. More like playing James Bond occasionally always being treated like royalty.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Boz
It never crossed my mind once to go to casinos with wife and friends with the intentions of eventually grinding out some type of hourly wage over time.
I stumbled into these forums way past the prime of my gambling days (except for poker) and found enjoyment in the stupidity being posted. I try to interject doubt and common sense like you suggest is a valuable tool.
Not sure why anyone would search down anonymous gambling forums for advice. I understand when the hopeless are looking for any way out, but certainly not a successful business man. How were you even able to find the time in order to make AP’ing worth it. I was lucky if I was able to get 6 hours of sleep in my day.
Not sure what you meant when you said your anonymous AP friends definitely saved you at times. My opinion is without taking AP life on full time and living in Vegas or close to lots of action, making yourself available 24/7, for whatever might be going on, for however much time a play might last is a full-time commitment.
Were you randomly traveling to casinos when your business allowed you some time off to scrap up a few extra AP bucks? I understand just because it’s an AP move doesn’t guarantee a win anytime you go. Did you add all your sessions together to eventually gain the math expectations?
At least I could confirm we agree on this statement you made. "Common sense is a valuable tool in life and can't be taught. Some need to use it more."
Originally Posted by blackhole;116704]
I guess that makes me fortunate always being able to view and treat casinos as pure entertainment win or lose.[QUOTE]
Yes, it does! I say that puts you in the top 1% of the people who visit the casino, it also puts you way ahead of many advantage players who have to show up for work when they often don't want to.
Originally Posted by blackhole;116704]
More like playing James Bond occasionally always being treated like royalty.[QUOTE]
The occasional "James Bond" wins is what creates the temporary illusion. You very well may be treated like reality as long as you understand in reality it is a pay me now or pay me later proposition from a casino perspective. There are no free rides for people who go to the casino for entertainment purposes.
Originally Posted by blackhole;116704]
It never crossed my mind once to go to casinos with wife and friends with the intentions of eventually grinding out some type of hourly wage over time.[QUOTE]
For the most part, AP grinding away methods and having the wife and friends on the same trip is not an ideal situation. More suited for AP wannabee losers.
[QUOTE=BoSox;116716]Originally Posted by blackhole;116704]
I guess that makes me fortunate always being able to view and treat casinos as pure entertainment win or lose.I think you placing me in the 1% bracket comparing people who visit the casino for entertainment is foolish and just another case of you just trying to make another false not true point while pretending to post known facts. 80% of all casinos gross income is from slot play. Since AP’s know how to win slot money, they certainly couldn’t be part of the 80% casino slot income. It’s the busloads of daily visitors the weekend or week long visitors who just know how to play slots and are having a ball doing it. Most are expecting to lose. The other 20% comes from assorted players. That would be everything between slot players and whales.Quote:
Yes, it does! I say that puts you in the top 1% of the people who visit the casino, it also puts you way ahead of many advantage players who have to show up for work when they often don't want to.
Please stop making a fool of yourself.
Quote by BoSox: "There are no free rides for people who go to the casino for entertainment purposes."
Now there's some words of wisdom. You must have earned a Doctorate studying the casino business.
Other than local free shows available in everyone's village, could you give a list of some places where I could go for some free ride entertainment similar to what casinos offer?
This is the expected response you get from a fucking idiot. It’s amazing how some members here look up to such a fucking fool who will twist, lie, and try to turn anything and everything said in an effort to fit his narrative.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
Of course, winning overrules every other possible outcome after a casino visit. It’s especially good when winning after they spent thousands on you trying to get your money. Of course, everyone knows they’ll get you in the long run.
From what I learned reading these forums, AP’ing for a living is a committed full-time career choice. There could be bad days, weeks, months, and sometime years of bad variance before things get back on track. You need full-time money, time, and patients to keep everything in its place to earn a living from it. There might be some very wealthy AP’s out there like Darkie and Axelass who already won so much money and now with such big bankrolls any negative variance regardless how long, could never take their bankroll down.
These types of AP’s will always drain the casinos of money till the day they die. Besides casinos will never catch on about promotions, casino card maneuvers, free comps, etc., they continue to offer the very same people that are making millions off them. Regardless how much information the casinos are offered about AP plays from AP’s like Shank, Eliot, and all the rest that get mentioned here who are willing to join the dark side, the casinos just don’t seem to care. What makes an AP go to the dark side anyhow? My conclusion is there’s only one no doubt obvious answer.
There are many other obstacles that seem to be getting in the way for AP’s. Trying to get on a must pay machine at the right time when 20 other teams are monitoring the few selected machines 24/7.
I’m sure Monet could offer many more obstacles then I’m even aware off. He’s the only full-time Las Vegas AP here that tells it like it is.
So, back to my point I was trying to make in my previous post which fuck-nuts tried to twist up.
If you have a full-time job or business, don’t live close to casinos, is AP’ing worth the time and effort to be a weekend warrior? Let’s assume you could even get on a certain machine that could earn 15 - 20 dollars an hour, is it really worth it? What happens when you don’t earn but instead lose? I’m not saying because of this you should go to a casino with the intentions of gambling like a drunken sailor. Nothing wrong with playing for some free comp money and burgers. But that’s got to be your thing. I’m sure that could be viewed as a different type of casino entertainment. But you’re not going to make a living from it.
Just because I didn’t choose to pursue AP’ing a casino for money or the cost of a burger and fries, instead just used them as an entertainment pit stop regardless the outcome doesn’t make me a fool. The fact that I was able to afford that level of entertainment whatever the cost, is what drives you 2-bit AP’s up a wall. Spending a week-end in suites with my wife and more concerned with the food and entertainment available then being in the casino is far different then AP’ing fulltime in a filthy, shitty, noisy shit-hole. I have pity for the people forced to do it. From what I’m reading it’s a backstabbing throat cutting business for the ones living in it and doing it 24/7.
If you’re making a living doing it, good for you. You deserve every penny you make.
[QUOTE=blackhole;116726]I was complimenting you and you do not even realize it. The reason I put you in the top 1% and is NOT foolish on your part is that you supposedly have your priorities in order and can actually afford a luxury gaming vacation. The busloads of people that go to the casino do not expect to win may in fact be enjoying themselves until they are back on the bus heading home. A large percentage of these people often overextend their gaming budget.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoSox
You need to learn how to read and reason you, stupid idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhole
Everyone that read my post above knew exactly what I meant based on the conversations that let up to it, including you.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoSoxYou need to learn how to read and reason you, stupid idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhole
Yet, just like Mickey instead of responding to what you know I meant, you had to take the opportunity to troll with this response: “You need to learn how to read and reason you, stupid idiot.”
Fucking pathetic loser troll ….
I responded with slang after you did in post #42 when you wrote:Quote:
Originally Posted by blackholeQuote:
Originally Posted by BoSoxYou need to learn how to read and reason you, stupid idiot.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhole
Yet, just like Mickey instead of responding to what you know I meant, you had to take the opportunity to troll with this response: “You need to learn how to read and reason you, stupid idiot.”
Fucking pathetic loser troll ….
So, back to my point I was trying to make in my previous post which fuck-nuts tried to twist up.
As far as you calling me a fucking loser troll, I am not like you with all the insecurity issues, so I do not need to respond to that shit.
Blackhole, I cannot speak for anyone else here (obviously), but nothing you do or write drives me up a wall. You can go do jumping jacks in the park or take a dump in the street; I could care less.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhole
[QUOTE=BoSox;116748]
I responded with slang after you did in post #42 when you wrote:
So, back to my point I was trying to make in my previous post which fuck-nuts tried to twist up.
That fuck-nuts was direct at Mickey who constantly curses me out. Fool
At least there is one person in this place that sees things for what they really are.Quote:
Originally Posted by tableplay
I used to shop there quite a bit. He had the good books but 90% were trash like John Patrick and Avery Cardoza.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoSox
[QUOTE=blackhole;116784]Thats because you constantly cuss me out. Just retaliation. WTF do you think this is, your birthday? You don't get a pass. Fuck with me and I'm damn sure gonna fuck with you. Now go shit in the parking lot, loser.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoSox
And don't forget--Howard and his shop are my book publishers. Their clairvoyance to recognize excellence in gambling achieved industry apex at that point in time.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoSox
Oh----Howard is alive, well, and we talked last evening. Continued "Undeniable Truth", as it always has been. Not sure where you got that rumor.
Sorry, excuse me. I had the wrong person's obituary, I thought there was only one Howard Schwartz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.SingerAnd don't forget--Howard and his shop are my book publishers. Their clairvoyance to recognize excellence in gambling achieved industry apex at that point in time.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoSox
Oh----Howard is alive, well, and we talked last evening. Continued "Undeniable Truth", as it always has been. Not sure where you got that rumor.
Nothing new ... you're always talking out of your ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoSox
Never too late for a kind gesture, eh Blackhole?Quote:
Originally Posted by blackholeNothing new ... you're always talking out of your ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoSox
Blackhole,
When I get on must hit machines it's for a lot more than $15-20 an hour, profit, lol.
My last two sessions, I made $8,000 in five hours the first session and $11,000 profit in five hours the second session.
Quite a bit more than $15-20!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoSox
You're right BoSox, that was a cheap shot by me. I'm sorry.
I’m surprised you even play those machines at all. With your kind of money, I thought those type of numbers would be to petty for 10 hours of your time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkoz
I also think your confusing what I said about must hit machines and having a real career far away from casinos and trying to AP on weekends. My reference to $15-$20 per hour machines had nothing to do with must hit games.
I think in your anxiousness to post some more winnings for everyone to read how clever you are, you didn’t comprehend what I said. 19K in 2 sessions not that impressive for you. Thought you said your doing about 40K per week average.
When will you realize how pathetic your claims are? My AP team and I made over 6.5 million net after taxes in less than 2 months. Your wins are our tip money.
Did you buy your own bus yet?
I said$20,000 per week.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackholeI’m surprised you even play those machines at all. With your kind of money, I thought those type of numbers would be to petty for 10 hours of your time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkoz
I also think your confusing what I said about must hit machines and having a real career far away from casinos and trying to AP on weekends. My reference to $15-$20 per hour machines had nothing to do with must hit games.
I think in your anxiousness to post some more winnings for everyone to read how clever you are, you didn’t comprehend what I said. 19K in 2 sessions not that impressive for you. Thought you said your doing about 40K per week average.
When will you realize how pathetic your claims are? My AP team and I made over 6.5 million net after taxes in less than 2 months. Your wins are our tip money.
Did you buy your own bus yet?
Must hits for me are my backup plan in case multi-carding ends. An AP they won't say I break any rules for.
And I admit they are kind of fun. I don't even do the multi-carding myself anymore. Let other people handle that
So Darkey, who on this forum do you think is the biggest net income AP. You, Axelass, Kewlj, jbjb, Eliot, MickeyCrimm, or whoever else I missed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkoz
As an outsider looking into the AP world, I can’t help but believe everyone of you are struggling if gambling is your only income. I’m sure there are highs and lows just like any other gambler. Yet, for the most part if anyone of you held the golden goose there is no way you would be on this and other forums talking shit about your success. I don’t pay much attention to the claims and clues AP’s leave on forums, but I’m sure there are others that pay attention and know how to capitalize on your leaks. That’s if anything you say is even true in the first place.
The fact that the AP’s that talk on these sites the way they do is enough to confirm they just can’t be that fucking stupid, or just don’t care because there’s nothing to lose.
In the real world of business secrets do exist, and are on a need to know only basis. I couldn’t imagine a forum where business owners (not gamblers) would go back and forth with trade tricks and secrets so everyone on the internet could have the opportunity to water down anyone’s income. I’ve learned things that took me years of mistakes to catch on. I’ve had good and close friends call and ask me if I was familiar with a certain issue I learned after years of experience. My answer was always no idea. You had to be a direct blood relative on the team to get that info. After costing me a ton of time and money to learn I’m not ever giving that info away during one phone call or post on a forum. That information is priceless as far as I’m concerned.
My opinion is you AP’s live close to the cliff, have zero longtime security, live life never knowing when you’ll be forced into the gutter again, or forced to work at a Mickey D’s. You have to be a fool to read these gambling forums and all the nonsense daily about who makes more than who, who’s a winner who’s a loser, prove this, prove that, then throw in the fact that almost everyone is anonymous; fool would be a generous word to describe anyone that’s buying this bullshit.
Other than AP’s like Darkie and Axelass who must have so many millions by now the future is already secured between their mattress where nothing matters anymore one way or the other.
Darkie, how is it you seem to get so many must hit machines in a timely fashion? Does the casino hold them for you when their juicy?
Everything I discussed above is also irrelevant, since any response will always be viewed as anonymous bullshit. The same bullshit this entire site is based on.
Well, your post has some sincerity for a change so I will give some answers (you probably won't consider them honest even though they are)Quote:
Originally Posted by blackholeSo Darkey, who on this forum do you think is the biggest net income AP. You, Axelass, Kewlj, jbjb, Eliot, MickeyCrimm, or whoever else I missed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkoz
As an outsider looking into the AP world, I can’t help but believe everyone of you are struggling if gambling is your only income. I’m sure there are highs and lows just like any other gambler. Yet, for the most part if anyone of you held the golden goose there is no way you would be on this and other forums talking shit about your success. I don’t pay much attention to the claims and clues AP’s leave on forums, but I’m sure there are others that pay attention and know how to capitalize on your leaks. That’s if anything you say is even true in the first place.
The fact that the AP’s that talk on these sites the way they do is enough to confirm they just can’t be that fucking stupid, or just don’t care because there’s nothing to lose.
In the real world of business secrets do exist, and are on a need to know only basis. I couldn’t imagine a forum where business owners (not gamblers) would go back and forth with trade tricks and secrets so everyone on the internet could have the opportunity to water down anyone’s income. I’ve learned things that took me years of mistakes to catch on. I’ve had good and close friends call and ask me if I was familiar with a certain issue I learned after years of experience. My answer was always no idea. You had to be a direct blood relative on the team to get that info. After costing me a ton of time and money to learn I’m not ever giving that info away during one phone call or post on a forum. That information is priceless as far as I’m concerned.
My opinion is you AP’s live close to the cliff, have zero longtime security, live life never knowing when you’ll be forced into the gutter again, or forced to work at a Mickey D’s. You have to be a fool to read these gambling forums and all the nonsense daily about who makes more than who, who’s a winner who’s a loser, prove this, prove that, then throw in the fact that almost everyone is anonymous; fool would be a generous word to describe anyone that’s buying this bullshit.
Other than AP’s like Darkie and Axelass who must have so many millions by now the future is already secured between their mattress where nothing matters anymore one way or the other.
Darkie, how is it you seem to get so many must hit machines in a timely fashion? Does the casino hold them for you when their juicy?
Everything I discussed above is also irrelevant, since any response will always be viewed as anonymous bullshit. The same bullshit this entire site is based on.
As an AP looking out, you are the person who keeps my income going. A player who believes I am a fantasy, who believes Gamblers are losers and who gives the casinos their hard earned income because that's just the way it is.
Without players like you the casinos would fold and AP' would be out of work.
I don't know what the net worth is of any other poster. I have said before on here I am comfortable. For some posters that means I am worth net millions. Comfortable is a subjective term.
I have taken millions from casinos but I also have spent and lost a lot money (a robbery included). But I am comfortable. I have no problem paying $1500 for a ten cent comic book from the 1950's to add to my collection of nearly 4,000 comics or paying $3,000 for antique working projectors, taking the family on a $30,000 week long trip to Disneyland.
I spend a bit too much is my point. As for Axel, he has been doing this longer than me so I am certain he has taken more from casinos but I don't know his current net worth. It's probably more than mine. I'm not competing with him believe it or not. I brag but I recognize there are other successful (perhaps more successful) AP's out there. (MDawg is just a bullshit con artist but what really irks me is you don't seem to call him out ever which makes me question your motives for finding AP's suspect. The real liar is right under your nose)
Business secrets. If I actually have away too many then you wouldn't be doubting me. You would be going to the casinos and trying them out for yourself. Knowing a secret exist doesn't mean everyone can figure it out.
And if everyone knows how to do a secret that doesn't mean everyone has the means to do it.
Do you know that Coke a cola has a secret formula? Have they made a mistake business wise by letting people know a secret formula exists? Hardly.
Do you know it's possible to make an atom bomb? Do you know the secret for doing so? If you did know the secret would you have the means, (plutonium or uranium plus scientific tools and knowledge) to build one?
There are plenty of secrets that even while being known to exist still can't be shared for various purposes.
As to hanging on a cliff, that's life for most, yes, even rich people.
Circuit City, Blockbuster Video, United Artists studios, hell plenty of billion dollar businesses that went belly up.
Bear/Stern's, Fannie May anyone?
The pandemic proved most of America would go belly up in a few weeks
If you wish to compare AP's with the real world the fact is we are further from the edge than most because of our proximity to the edge.
That sounds like an oxymoron but the person who lives near the ocean is more prepared for a flood than the person who lives inland. When a flood occurs to both, guess who survived better?
To answer your must hit question, no the casinos don't hold the seata for me. I have low paid spotters, (locals to the casino who regularly text me must hit machine meters), so I have an idea when to go. And they can sit and hold a machine if I am not too far away.
See, an AP comes up with simple solutions often enough.
Blackhole, did we overcook the eggs this morning?
So apparently you firmly believe that the gaming community is built on nothing but fabrications and gullibility. I actually enjoyed your post up to 'until' I read the following lines:
I’ve learned things that took me years of mistakes to catch on. I’ve had good and close friends call and ask me if I was familiar with a certain issue I learned after years of experience. My answer was always no idea. You had to be a direct blood relative on the team to get that info. After costing me a ton of time and money to learn I’m not ever giving that info away during one phone call or post on a forum. That information is priceless as far as I’m concerned.
So evidentially you went from being Gordon Greco all the way down to casino vegas talk forum member talk about hitting rock bottom. That is a large separation of real-life variance, to say the least, sounds rather strange. Wait a minute, you were on a team of very real big leaguers who had most of all the answers, I know that you think the board is comprised of mostly gullible stupid people but Jesus there are limits you know.
Just when I removed you from my biggest bullshitting anonymous asshole list, you post this dripping drool gibberish.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoSox
Then of course there’s Darkie doing donuts all over my post with his Lamborghini typewriter.
Thanks fellow’s for the expected responses to help confirm my point on how it really is here.
I could quit right now and never have to work another day to earn another penny for the rest of my life. But I'm also frugal. I don't need nor want high cost things.
Well I can't. I need another 10 years. 10 "normal" years or years close to my average income for the last decade, NOT 10 2020's. If we are going by 2020, I need another 30-40. years. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjb
Now you know why I quit counting cards. I hated working nearly every day. Also, you're a bit younger than I am, so that is also a factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJWell I can't. I need another 10 years. 10 "normal" years or years close to my average income for the last decade, NOT 10 2020's. If we are going by 2020, I need another 30-40. years. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjb
I actually like working nearly everyday.(5 and a half days a week anyway....sundays are sacred football days). My working days have grown shorter over the last 5-6 years. I used to work much longer days to get in the rounds I needed, now I am much more efficient. 4-5 hours a day. sometimes less, which I like as it leaves plenty of free time. So much time off this year, I haven't known what to do with myself. I'm going to have to "learn" how to retire when the time comes. Is there a course you can take? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjbNow you know why I quit counting cards. I hated working nearly every day. Also, you're a bit younger than I am, so that is also a factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJWell I can't. I need another 10 years. 10 "normal" years or years close to my average income for the last decade, NOT 10 2020's. If we are going by 2020, I need another 30-40. years. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by jbjb
And yes, I know your post was another jab at card counters. You never get tired of telling us how you left card counting behind. :rolleyes:
Not a jab. When I did it, I enjoyed it. Just too stressful and takes too long.
I'm glad I only do a quick read here every day or two. In this thread alone, we have several anonymous "AP's" attempting to talk the other one into believing that their casino "income" :) has or will allow them to sit around and do nothing while they live zero-value lives. Then we have an anonymous "millionaire AP" who claims he can't control his spending because there's just too much money to keep track of.
Blackhole hit the nail on the head when mocked you clowns for making your silly claims on forums such as this. Even hospice-dwellers wouldn't be yapping about this stuff if any of it were true. But anonymous claimants have balls.
That's also why people come here to read. And laugh.
Then we have your GOAT self telling us about your rock star life rolling around the country in a Brittany Spears RV. While taking pictures behind the wheel of a Newell in a dealership showroom down the road from your daughter's house.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.Singer
Then you find a Newell at some campground you're staying at with your tow behind rickety ass Winnebago thing. So you sneak up to the rear of it and take a pic and post it here claiming it's yours. While it has a completely different color scheme outside than the one you were posing in at the dealership....LMAO
Now the elusive Newell won't be ready for viewing till sometime next year. You're right about one thing. People get hella laughs reading the BS on this site. You're a one man laugh factory.
The only thing you've ever doubled up on is clown school attendance. Chief of the VCT clown posse. I'm going to get a shirt made for you and send it to your daughter's house. Let me know what size you wear. If you take a pic in it I will send you $250. That's a freeroll that you can fulfill.
Rob nor anyone in his family owns a Newell. The Yugo is nice though. :D
You shut your mouth when you're talking to me!Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPen
This site is by far the best social media forum that I belong to.
I love it here.
Perfect place to spend the day until one of your friends goes behind your back and screws you!!
(Damn You MaxPen... I can't find that Let it Ride Movie Scene on Youtube and I'm too lazy to record and upload it right now.)
Ask me anything ... today 07.23 @ 1PM PDT
https://youtu.be/m80GqGQdTtE