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https://x.com/M19190191M/status/1939632702736445559
My theory at first was that this was an unknown player, who had no built up comps in the system from previous play, and the pitboss wasn't authorized to give any on-the-spot comps. Stupid, yes, but that was my best guess.
However, it's since been reported that this guy previously lost $1,000,000 there in a recent visit. So how does he lack comp power to get a smoothie?
Any ideas?
I have no tolerance for this ridiculousness. It's beyond pathetic; it's hilarious.
Look, if players don't throw fits over stuff like this and make public fun of the casino on-the-spot, then it's on them. You cannot let bureaucracies get away with this absurdity.
I remember right after the Rio opened (1990), I was at Harrah's on the strip. It was mid-week; nobody in the sports book. They had a deli next to the book. I bet some odd figure on two games (like $4500-something or $4700; I'd have to look it up) and asked for a deli sandwich while I was still standing at the window. The window clerk said I needed to bet 5K to get a sandwich. I looked around and said, "You gotta be kidding. Nobody's here."
I was incensed (in a Todd Witteles type fashion), and I knew the rule was as long as I was at the window, I could cancel my last wager. I also knew the Rio had an identical number for those games. So I said, "Oh, gee, I made a mistake. I'd like my money back." I got my money back and went to the Rio, where I got a comped buffet (which was cutting edge at the time). So if I'd do that over $4700 (maybe 15K in today's money), I cannot imagine my reaction to betting 25K a hand and not getting comped. LOL. I'd have probably dropped my drawers and pissed on the floor, just so they'd have to arrest me and it'd make the national papers.
As customers, every time you go to a table there, you should ask, "Is this the place that won't comp me a milkshake for a million in action?"
Pure corporate stupidity & another reason why the place is failing.
If it had any sort of decent management, which it obviously doesn’t, situations like this would have been considered & a solution worked out in advance.
They probably have some sort of rule or policy in place like “No comps, unless X, Y, Z”
Where the rule should have been “No comps unless X, Y, Z, but this only applies to people betting less than x amount per hand”
Or “If someone wants a comp of less than $50 and they are betting at least x amount per hand, then give it to them.”
Or “If there is a really big player that wants a minor comp call Mr./Mrs. X for immediate approval.”
But the fact that this could even happen shows that management has left the building.
They are not managing the place.
They are letting an idiotic, arbitrary, inflexible set of black and white rules manage the place and that is why it is failing.
I watched the video it is unclear to me what is going on (or not going on).
However, it is possible that the guy is currently overcomped. Comps are based on either of these:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/ques...-comp-machine/
10% of actual loss , or up to 40% of theo loss, whichever is greater.
So the guy supposedly lost a million beforehand, that's worth a hundred grand of comps assuming his theo didn't warrant more than that. He might have already burned through that and maybe at this moment he shows as overcomped. Heavy action and extended stays like I have enjoyed in Vegas cannot be sustained by losses, in my case I would have had to lose on the order of millions of dollars per year (one year recently burned through something like a half mill in comps, which would have required a straight loss of $5M that year to justify from the casino's perspective). Monster comps like I have received over the years are sustainable only by theo loss, which in my case is representative of winning, but could for someone else be representative of breaking even or a small loss. This is why the guy who loses twenty grand at a sitting is barely able to stay at the resort in a suite for more than a few nights comped, while the guy who sits at the table playing for hours and neither wins nor loses might have built up enough comps to stay a week.
Getting back to being overcomped - I recall once years ago (before my decade or so hiatus from gaming) I was told that I had negative comps when I asked for something from a pit boss, but the pit boss just overrode it and extended the comp anyway (this was back when pit bosses could issue comps directly for say, restaurants). Maybe in this case, this RW pit boss couldn't override the negative comp balance the guy was showing at that moment.
Or this video could be representative of something as simple as that at RW, pit bosses don't have discretion to comp anything that is not served directly by the cocktail servers. Or it could be a glitch - When RW first opened, I clocked them for six figures that same night, and ended up having to pay for my own late night meal at their food court, because their system wasn't working yet and hadn't applied any comps to my account.
When I am at RW playing, but not staying, and I want something like a meal at the Crockford's butler service area, or at a restaurant, I don't ask a pit boss I ask a host to load the comp onto my player card.
Things definitely have changed from the way it was a couple decades ago. For example the cigarette / cigar girl: At Cosmo I have asked for cigars for friends, and the girl can't simply hand them over, the pit boss has to look up your account and apply the value of the comp to it on his computer before giving her the okay.
And I will say that overall, RW Vegas has gotten tighter with comps over the past year compared to when they opened.
Table games players I feel usually get more respect than they deserve because human interaction is part of the deal. When people play machines, interactions are meant to be quick and distant and not expected?
The problem is they can't trust their employees. No one respects corporations either. So they have these rules or things become abused.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGenBen
Where upper management likely fails is in the beam counting side. Beam counting math never works for people situations and that's what you will likely get hiring MBAs.
Red Rock (who was mentioned by the players, comparing them favorably to Resorts World) jumped right on this...
https://x.com/redrockcasino/status/1940127157230915856
Hilarious.
Resorts World really has become the clown show of the strip, with Fontainebleau not lagging far behind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestionThe problem is they can't trust their employees. No one respects corporations either. So they have these rules or things become abused.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGenBen
Where upper management likely fails is in the beam counting side. Beam counting math never works for people situations and that's what you will likely get hiring MBAs.
Correct. They also pay these employees less than they used to (adjusted for inflation), because less is expected of them. They've become cogs in the wheel, rather than empowered to make decisions.
This isn't just in the gambling industry.
Many chain and small chain restaurants and stores simply install some low paid "manager", and then neuter them to where they have no real authority. They then place the authority in the hands of the district manager. This can be infuriating, as you can never get immediate resolution to your problem, and yet the manager won't admit he/she is powerless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
What’s funny is at this casino a $10 smoothie comp for high rollers gets more scrutiny than an illegal bookmaker laundering millions in dirty cash.
Let's not forget the recent Mr. Beast Experience fiasco, where they outright scammed people who bought $1000 packages, and then gave just $50 food credit (lol) to the aggrieved parties, until shamed by social media into giving a refund.
https://vegascasinotalk.com/forum/sh...Mr-Beast-event
This place really is run by complete stooges.
At my local Casino, I had lost money and they wouldn't even give me a free cup of soda from the bar. :/ Like seriously? :/
What, there were no self service drink dispensers for all the patrons?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
We have them in the tribal joints I play at.
Bars peddle alcohol, not soft drinks.
Did you ask a circulating CW for a soft drink, and if not, why not?
All of my local Casinos have bars. :) And they all serve soda. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterVWhat, there were no self service drink dispensers for all the patrons?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
We have them in the tribal joints I play at.
Bars peddle alcohol, not soft drinks.
Did you ask a circulating CW for a soft drink, and if not, why not?
I definitely see the parallel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
Person betting $25k per hand denied free smoothie.
Person betting 1 cent per spin & trying to get paid on old bingo cards denied soda.
No, not in Vegas. I assumed it was most likely because the operators don't want to attract undesirables. I remember M Resort had self serve for a few years. M was(/is) located out in an affluent area without a homeless presence. I've seen self serve in small towns throughout Nevada.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
But Copilot mentioned unions as the #1 reason. They don't want automation eliminating their service jobs.
So what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
All the tribal joints I haunt have bars and presumably they also can serve soda.
The questions you dodged:
Are there no self-serve soft drink stations you could and should have used?
Did you ask a CW for a soft drink?
Bartenders are in the business of selling alcohol, not doling out free soft drinks to low-rolling deadbeats.
That hasn't ben my experience at all. Especially early on after moving to Vegas which is when I made the decision to not even bother playing rated. That decision was about making it as hard as possible for casinos to track my play. Not wanting a record of my play and bets they could pull up. BUT the decision was made a lot easier by the fact that casinos just didn't give much to table game players. It was about that time that MGM started a policy where they wouldn't even rate a player playing less than $25. I was spreading $25-$400 at the time, so that wasn't me, but can there be any clearer, disrespectful signal to a player that to say don't even bother trying to give a player's card, your play is insignificant to us. Damn!Quote:
Originally Posted by theywontpayontuesday
Now I am not comparing my play at that time $25-$400, or even now with a max bet of $1200 to sometimes $1500 to these guys spreading $25k in any way. Just saying my experience has been that casinos don't give much to table game players.
Obviously, a player playing $25k a hand that can't get a comped smoothie, is an epic fail on the casinos part. the very kind of epic fail that has occurred for 25 years now since casinos transformed away from real casino people running things, to guys that main credential was graduating from business school. I guess the exception would be if the player in the video was actually spreading which it didn't appear or doing something else that would make him undesirable in the eyes of the casino. But we didn't see anything like that. Just looks like an asinine business decision. I think if it had been me, asker asking for a drink and being denied, the next words out of my mouth would have been "color up' as I exited, making a comment about not playing at a place that wont even give me a free drink.
BTW, my very first response was wondering if the player was spreading or doing something like that would make him undesirable in the eyes of casino and pit. Again, we don't see that, but video really isn't long enough to know for sure. But on the surface just flat out idiotic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNKewlJ
Why isn't this retard pretending to be relevant?
I thought of that too, but quickly realized that if a player betting $25k per hand was doing something the casino didn’t like such as counting, the casino would not have denied a comped smoothie, they would have backed the player off or banned them.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Not to mention someone doing advantage play at $25k per hand is not going to give a fuck about a comped smoothie, they are going to try to avoid any attention.
Well yes and no. (again based only on my experience as a player maxing out at $400 or more recently $1200 or so). If there are other patrons around (playing on the main floor) the casinos really don't want to back off a player. It is bad for business. So sometimes they tolerate a player playing at a small advantage like card counting for at least a little while.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGenBen
Casinos KNOW that even with an advantage, for that single session, variance really comes into play. They love to wait til a player experiences some negative variance, losing a number of hands and then hit him with a backoff. :D
Now again, I would think this clip was high limit room action from amounts bet, plus you don't see a lot of activity in the background, in which case, yeah you are right, if there was something that made his play undesirable, they just should have backed him off or barred him.
Keep coming back to it just seems like a really stupid business decision by people that aren't you old casino type guys that knew how to run a casino.
Here is another decision, completely unrelated. Whe covid hit, The smaller local type casinos closed buffets and never re-opened them. Station and Boyd cited that their buffets had been losing money for years, and they wanted to get rid of them as the reason.
Well the old time casino operators KNEW buffets and places like that lost money. The intent was to keep gamblers in the casinos, where they could grab a quick meal and get back to the tables (or slots). So if the buffets lost a little money so be it. They made up for it 10 fold on the player (and friends) sticking round and gambling 3 more hours after his meal. But the idiots that run casinos now, just can't think like that. they look only at buffet revenue and say we are losing money.
Absolutely correct. Again the bean-counters are in charge. A few casinos "get it" (South Point comes to mind).Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJWell yes and no. (again based only on my experience as a player maxing out at $400 or more recently $1200 or so). If there are other patrons around (playing on the main floor) the casinos really don't want to back off a player. It is bad for business. So sometimes they tolerate a player playing at a small advantage like card counting for at least a little while.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGenBen
Casinos KNOW that even with an advantage, for that single session, variance really comes into play. They love to wait til a player experiences some negative variance, losing a number of hands and then hit him with a backoff. :D
Now again, I would think this clip was high limit room action from amounts bet, plus you don't see a lot of activity in the background, in which case, yeah you are right, if there was something that made his play undesirable, they just should have backed him off or barred him.
Keep coming back to it just seems like a really stupid business decision by people that aren't you old casino type guys that knew how to run a casino.
Here is another decision, completely unrelated. Whe covid hit, The smaller local type casinos closed buffets and never re-opened them. Station and Boyd cited that their buffets had been losing money for years, and they wanted to get rid of them as the reason.
Well the old time casino operators KNEW buffets and places like that lost money. The intent was to keep gamblers in the casinos, where they could grab a quick meal and get back to the tables (or slots). So if the buffets lost a little money so be it. They made up for it 10 fold on the player (and friends) sticking round and gambling 3 more hours after his meal. But the idiots that run casinos now, just can't think like that. they look only at buffet revenue and say we are losing money.
The problem is compartmentalization with each individual having a status and responsibilities in a particular sealed-off compartment and nobody imposing some overview strategy that is more comprehensively efficient than this every-manager-for-himself stuff. This LV every manager for himself is relatively modern and a result of massive mega-corps shuttling personnel around as they please between properties with no property-specific game plans overriding personal goals.
Curricula vitae have become more important than over-arching results. That's what happens when massive companies run multiple properties competing against each other in the same physical space. The sub-components (gaming, food-and-beverage, hotel) at each individual property take it a step further and wind up similarly competing with each other instead of arriving at some plenary game plan.
Good points.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJWell yes and no. (again based only on my experience as a player maxing out at $400 or more recently $1200 or so). If there are other patrons around (playing on the main floor) the casinos really don't want to back off a player. It is bad for business. So sometimes they tolerate a player playing at a small advantage like card counting for at least a little while.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGenBen
Casinos KNOW that even with an advantage, for that single session, variance really comes into play. They love to wait til a player experiences some negative variance, losing a number of hands and then hit him with a backoff. :D
Now again, I would think this clip was high limit room action from amounts bet, plus you don't see a lot of activity in the background, in which case, yeah you are right, if there was something that made his play undesirable, they just should have backed him off or barred him.
Keep coming back to it just seems like a really stupid business decision by people that aren't you old casino type guys that knew how to run a casino.
Here is another decision, completely unrelated. Whe covid hit, The smaller local type casinos closed buffets and never re-opened them. Station and Boyd cited that their buffets had been losing money for years, and they wanted to get rid of them as the reason.
Well the old time casino operators KNEW buffets and places like that lost money. The intent was to keep gamblers in the casinos, where they could grab a quick meal and get back to the tables (or slots). So if the buffets lost a little money so be it. They made up for it 10 fold on the player (and friends) sticking round and gambling 3 more hours after his meal. But the idiots that run casinos now, just can't think like that. they look only at buffet revenue and say we are losing money.
It could be that the only thing that gets some of these places to stop making these bad decisions is either massive financial losses or bankruptcy.
My local Casinos don't have self serve soda locations. I didn't see any CW while I was playing. I wasn't low rolling, I was playing around $2 a spin.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterVSo what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
All the tribal joints I haunt have bars and presumably they also can serve soda.
The questions you dodged:
Are there no self-serve soft drink stations you could and should have used?
Did you ask a CW for a soft drink?
Bartenders are in the business of selling alcohol, not doling out free soft drinks to low-rolling deadbeats.
What does seeing a cat whisperer have to do with getting a soda in a casino? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by TashaMy local Casinos don't have self serve soda locations. I didn't see any CW while I was playing. I wasn't low rolling, I was playing around $2 a spin.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterVSo what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
All the tribal joints I haunt have bars and presumably they also can serve soda.
The questions you dodged:
Are there no self-serve soft drink stations you could and should have used?
Did you ask a CW for a soft drink?
Bartenders are in the business of selling alcohol, not doling out free soft drinks to low-rolling deadbeats.
Come on your just trolling. CW is a Cocktail Waitress and you know it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGenBenWhat does seeing a cat whisperer have to do with getting a soda in a casino? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by TashaMy local Casinos don't have self serve soda locations. I didn't see any CW while I was playing. I wasn't low rolling, I was playing around $2 a spin.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
This article goes into a lot more detail about the smoothie incident
https://sccgmanagement.com/sccg-news...d-during-game/
I thought you were broke?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
How can you afford to bet two bucks a spin?
When my wallet was stolen, I waited before freezing my credit card because I figured maybe the thief would accidentally issue payment on my outstanding balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGenBenGood points.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJWell yes and no. (again based only on my experience as a player maxing out at $400 or more recently $1200 or so). If there are other patrons around (playing on the main floor) the casinos really don't want to back off a player. It is bad for business. So sometimes they tolerate a player playing at a small advantage like card counting for at least a little while.Quote:
Originally Posted by DGenBen
Casinos KNOW that even with an advantage, for that single session, variance really comes into play. They love to wait til a player experiences some negative variance, losing a number of hands and then hit him with a backoff. :D
Now again, I would think this clip was high limit room action from amounts bet, plus you don't see a lot of activity in the background, in which case, yeah you are right, if there was something that made his play undesirable, they just should have backed him off or barred him.
Keep coming back to it just seems like a really stupid business decision by people that aren't you old casino type guys that knew how to run a casino.
Here is another decision, completely unrelated. Whe covid hit, The smaller local type casinos closed buffets and never re-opened them. Station and Boyd cited that their buffets had been losing money for years, and they wanted to get rid of them as the reason.
Well the old time casino operators KNEW buffets and places like that lost money. The intent was to keep gamblers in the casinos, where they could grab a quick meal and get back to the tables (or slots). So if the buffets lost a little money so be it. They made up for it 10 fold on the player (and friends) sticking round and gambling 3 more hours after his meal. But the idiots that run casinos now, just can't think like that. they look only at buffet revenue and say we are losing money.
It could be that the only thing that gets some of these places to stop making these bad decisions is either massive financial losses or bankruptcy.
I was actually starting off playing .50, and got an unexpected $200 win. :) I then upped my bet to $2 a spin. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterVI thought you were broke?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
How can you afford to bet two bucks a spin?
You are an actual moronQuote:
Originally Posted by TashaI was actually starting off playing .50, and got an unexpected $200 win. :) I then upped my bet to $2 a spin. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterVI thought you were broke?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
How can you afford to bet two bucks a spin?
Interesting strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by TashaI was actually starting off playing .50, and got an unexpected $200 win. :) I then upped my bet to $2 a spin. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterVI thought you were broke?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
How can you afford to bet two bucks a spin?
Win on a small bet then quadruple your bet so you can expose your winnings to the house edge four times faster.
If you had hit $800 on $2 a spin would you have upped your bet to $8 a spin?
At the time, I STILL was relying on the Bingo Scam(I hadn't gotten caught yet) so I was playing frivolously. I mentioned that I played frivolously before getting caught and banned for the Bingo scam. Playing $8 a spin is too high of a bet for me. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by DGenBenInteresting strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by TashaI was actually starting off playing .50, and got an unexpected $200 win. :) I then upped my bet to $2 a spin. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterV
Win on a small bet then quadruple your bet so you can expose your winnings to the house edge four times faster.
If you had hit $800 on $2 a spin would you have upped your bet to $8 a spin?
https://i.imgur.com/qvVPm7th.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Don Perignom
Why isn't this retard pretending to be relevant?
Now now, calm down ...some say "If you've got it, flaunt it;" a corollary would be "If you've got it, bet it."Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
You know what they say: "If you want to win big you have to bet big."
How true that is.
You need a powerful booster rocket when you are reaching for the stars...
"To infinity...and beyond!"
In all honesty, if the guy wanted his beverage comped, he should have played on Slot and electronic Roulette machines if he has $2,500 a game to gamble. ;) Those Slot and Roulette Comps add up quick. ;) He would have had been comped at least a year's worth of beverages had he been playing Slots and electronic Roulette. :) Heck, I was playing $200 on average playing Slots and electronic Roulette and I got a $20 Comp. ;) Surely playing $25,000 a game would net him at least a year's worth of beverages. ;)
I did some quick calculations, and the guy if he played $2,500 a game (Not a session, a game)on Slots and electronic Roulette, he would be Comped at least enough to get at least 365 smoothies. ;)
Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
You bet $200.00 a pop yet still felt constrained to beg "casino friends" for money?
That takes chutzpah.
*golf clap*
$200 a SESSION, not a GAME.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterVReally?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
You bet $200.00 a pop yet still felt constrained to beg "casino friends" for money?
That takes chutzpah.
*golf clap*
Oh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
You wrote: " I was playing $200 on average playing Slots and electronic Roulette..."
Ambiguity is NOT your friend; try using your brain as a filter.
By the time I realized I should have said,"A session, and not a game, " it was way too late to edit.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterVOh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasha
You wrote: " I was playing $200 on average playing Slots and electronic Roulette..."
Ambiguity is NOT your friend; try using your brain as a filter.