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You are mistaken in both of your points.
MDawg has written of losing sessions.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Math experts explained with formulas how it is not impossible for him to have won as he described.
Jacobsen wrote of a player who won 10s of millions over 3 years playing baccarat.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Are you claiming that player was not comped during his winning streak, that he paid his own way?
Whatever, but that still doesn't mean that you are more qualified to judge than anybody else.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
You're a fool if you think that you are more qualified, so there's that.
Axel's quote is exactly right and mirrors my own experiences with forum participation. You non-AP's and particularly anti-APers will never understand how valuable participation on different forums is. The things you learn publicly, but even more so privately with the private networking opportunities. Many AP's like Axelwolf, extend that to personally meeting people that become friends, and trusted playing partners for years or even a lifetime. In part because what I was limiting myself to, I never took it that far. The people you meet (even if only online friends) and the networking is just invaluable.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackholeI re-read it. Exact quote from Axelass :Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
"My experiences and the people I have meet directly related to my posting on this site is worth more than a million dollars to me."
This site he refers to is WOV. The same site Mike Shank had to beg for money to keep running with his tin cup thread.
Some fucking pal you are.
To give an example from my own experience, I joined my first blackjack forum, blackjackinfo in 2006. That was my 3rd year of supporting myself from blackjack play and card counting. And those first 3 years I averaged $10,000 a year. It is no coincidence that at that exact point in my career, my earnings began to multiply exponentially.
Some of that was due to increase in bankroll and stakes played, but mostly it was because of the education I received from members of that forum, much of it through private networking. What to do. What not to do. What would be a big red flag. And there were things I learned from purchasing Norm Wattenberger's Qfit software. While I have had issues with Norm the person, his software has benefited me and so many other players and I would have never even known about the software without the forum I joined.
In addition to my blackjack earnings, I have made over quarter million dollars in supplemental AP stuff. Everything from VP bonus whoring, to the big six wheel. Beating the big six wheel (and a few other things) goes directly from things learned from James Grosjean's book, a book, I would have never even know about without forum participation.
You just cannot put a value on the benefits of participating on these forum and the opportunities available, especially behind the scenes. You anti-APers will never get that. So you take Axelwolf's statement out of context, but it is exactly correct and most successful AP's feel the same way.
I referenced the situation Eliot shared. That was the casino taking action, looking into the situation, saying hey we are not going to keep comping a winning player. In that particular instance the experts called in were able to convince the casino that the player was just lucky and they would get their money back. And it worked out. But I don't believe they would have gone on much longer if things hadn't turned around.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach belly
Look, this MDawg isn't playing with an advantage, at least that he has shared and I have repeatedly asked him, so I differentiate between him and AP's. But with AP's there are times the casino can't figure out what the player is doing. Whether he is winning playing legally with an advantage that they are not familiar with or possibly cheating (even though they haven't figured out how). They WILL pull the plug on that player at some point. They just won't allow a player to win forever and then comp him everything under the sun on top of it. Again, all I can say is anyone that doesn't understand that doesn't understand the casino business model.
Do you suppose that MDawg's posted results would have the casino convinced that he's not been just lucky, that something else is going on?Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Eliot's guy who won 10s of millions got comped throughout his winning streak.
But you're insisting that MDawg could not have been comped as he has written, because he's on a winning streak?
They're going to cut off the comps? They're gonna let just him take their money and stay across the street?
Is that how it works?
One thing KewlJ you're completely wrong about, is how the comp system works with respect to baccarat especially, but also with respect to table game play in general.
First off, I have always played above radar under my own name with my own player card.
My experience with blackjack actually mirrors yours, in a way - in that when I was winning heavily at blackjack they did start to sweat me. I was backed off after just a few trips in a row where I cleared around sixty thousand each trip, playing double deck blackjack. Before that I had won consistently at blackjack, but never sums that raised much attention.
Anyway, you're wrong about that they cut off the comps first - that's not true at all. The department that hands out comps has nothing to do with the department that cuts off players. It's like - to use an analogy, the difference between salespeople and loss prevention in a department store - no matter how good a customer is with buying shirts and slacks, if he steals from the store, L.P. will step in and give him the boot and maybe arrest him. Certainly, L.P. won't just look the other way just because the guy is a good customer.
Similarly, in a casino, the guys watching the action on the floor are like loss prevention, and the casino hosts and casino marketing are like salespeople in a store - one really has nothing to do with the other. All casino marketing and hosts care about are how much a guy plays – it’s the casino floor staff and their bosses who decide if the guy is going to be allowed to play at all.
And anyway the usual practice, for a known player who is suspected of card counting, or just plain “guilty” of winning too much at a game of skill like blackjack, is to just tell him that he may play whatever he likes - except for blackjack. I want to clarify again - that by known player I mean a guy who has a player card and has been playing regularly in that casino's system, especially at a good level. In my case, they stepped in and effectively banned me by placing a handicap on my blackjack action, limiting my spread to 3X hand to hand. And the ban was across, at that time, one of the largest chains in Vegas, anyway, the chain that owned pretty much all the casinos I cared about playing at, at that time.
I couldn't play blackjack again for about two years. I tried - I stepped back in about a year later and there was something on the computer or a pit boss recognized me, not sure which, but I was asked to stop playing blackjack. And again, I was playing under my own name, with my player card, I wasn't trying to hide, same as always.
Then after about two years had elapsed, I had become good friends with the director of table games and he lifted the ban across the entire chain. But by then, I was playing baccarat and winning more than I ever won at blackjack, so I didn't even care and never went back to playing blackjack exclusively, although I still do play blackjack sometimes to this day.
Now Baccarat, is considered a game of chance, the casino doesn't think that there is any way for a player to beat them at it using skill, so - they really don't care what anyone does at that game as long as he's not cheating, which means - unlimited comps, and unlimited winning potential, because, again, the casino thinks that in the long run no one wins at that game. No one gets backed off from baccarat, I mean just the idea or mention of such a thing is absurd. Which means then that a large part of your objection to my true story - is because you aren't aware that baccarat is a game where the casino never cuts any legitimate player off.
MDawg, I haven't examined all your blackjack claims. Maybe I have missed it but it doesn't appear you have shared too many specifics, at least under this handle. I would like to learn more about your experiences because I am always interested in that, and learning what I can from other players experiences. Maybe some day we can get into that.Quote:
Originally Posted by MDawg
But for now, what strikes me as very odd about the above post is that you acknowledge casinos will not tolerate blackjack advantage play for long without taking countermeasures, which range from cutting off comps and freebies (often the first countermeasure that is sometimes missed by the player), to not allowing them to play anymore. Yet, with baccarat, you seem to think they don't care. They will allow a player to just keep winning and comp him on top of that.
Look every advantage play, from card counting, to very advanced stuff, was at one time unknown to the casinos. There are players that probably figured out something just today, or this week that the casinos are currently in the dark about. Unfortunately with traitors like Eliot, they don't stay in the dark for ever. :p :cool: So my point is that just because the casino hasn't figured out exactly what a player is doing, doesn't mean they are ok, with him winning forever. There is a point where they say no more, regardless of whether they understand what is happening or not. You seem to understand this about blackjack, but not baccarat. That is weird to me.
So now that's your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Because 90 minutes ago you were calling MDawg a liar, because he could not have gotten comped while on a winning streak.
Either he was winning, or getting comped...not both (like Eliot's guy).
Just admit it...you're a tewl.
Fuck you smelly belly. Just shut the fuck up and stop injecting your trolling into every discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellySo now that's your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Because 90 minutes ago you were calling MDawg a liar, because he could not have gotten comped while on a winning streak.
Either he was losing, or getting comped...not both (like Eliot's guy).
Just admit it...you're a tewl.
No I don't think I will, tewlj.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
As long as you keep making no sense, I'll be there to point out what a tewl you are.
Okay, couple things. First off, I want to make clear that I don't speak in absolutes. I can speak only of my own experience, or of the experience of anyone who has played in casinos whom I know personally or know of.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Secondly, I am talking about known players. Players who play table games openly under their own identity, with a player card, and who have been playing for some time in the casinos, at a good level of play.
In my experience, casinos do Not cut off comps as a means to stop such blackjack players as are displaying clear signs of card counting or winning too consistently. Instead, they step in to tell us that we may no longer play blackjack (but are free to play other table games). Sometimes they do this with an outright back off from blackjack, and other times, such as they did to me, they effectively ban by limiting the spread between bets (in my case, to 3X, which made it not worth my continuing to play blackjack).
Again in my experience, no one I know has ever been backed off with regards to baccarat play, in any way, no matter how much he won in a given trip or over a period time.
It amazes me how people get so wound up over Tasha/Nathan who is goofy but easy to ignore. Then you have this Coach Belly guy who has some sort of severe cognitive defect and fucks up every thread with nonsense. No one starts threads about him.
I appreciate your tone, MDawg.Quote:
Originally Posted by MDawgOkay, couple things. First off, I want to make clear that I don't speak in absolutes. I can speak only of my own experience, or of the experience of anyone who has played in casinos whom I know personally or know of.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Secondly, I am talking about known players. Players who play table games openly under their own identity, with a player card, and who have been playing for some time in the casinos, at a good level of play.
In my experience, casinos do Not cut off comps as a means to stop such blackjack players as are displaying clear signs of card counting or winning too consistently. Instead, they step in to tell us that we may no longer play blackjack (but are free to play other table games). Sometimes they do this with an outright back off from blackjack, and other times, such as they did to me, they effectively ban by limiting the spread between bets (in my case, to 3X, which made it not worth my continuing to play blackjack).
Again in my experience, no one I know has ever been backed off with regards to baccarat play, in any way, no matter how much he won in a given trip or over a period time.
In my experience, which is blackjack only (or mainly), in most cases, when a player is backed off, barred, or told "no more blackjack", he has probably already missed a couple warning signs. These signs can be anything from a change in demeanor from pit personnel, staring at the player just to make them uncomfortable, the flipping through the discard rack when bets are raised, reduced penetration, to loss or reduction in comps and offers, including zeroing out comp dollars. Not always but in most cases, in my experience, the backoff or "no more blackjack" is not the first signal.
The first place that did this to me was South Point. No surprise really. They were in my regular rotation at the time for blackjack and I gave them a decent amount of rated machine play because they were giving decent mail offers. So one month I was expecting significant free play mail offer based on my coin in and I received no mailer. I inquired at the players card and was actually told that I had been "no mailed". Next time I plated blackjack I was backed off and have been backed off many times since. And I have had other offers stop and accounts zeroed out, so I try not to keep too much in them.
Your 3x bet restriction is a new one for me, in Vegas. I have never heard of anyone being bet restricted to that amount. As a matter of fact, I haven't seen or heard of much bet restricting in Vegas. I had a 1-10 bet restriction in Atlantic City and know of a number of players that have had that same restriction as it is the law or used to be back in 2008-2009 time frame. They would pull out a bet limit card that read minimum bet $5 Maximum bet $50, regardless that you might be playing a $25, $50 or even $100 table. But I just haven't heard of a lot of bet restricting (other than flat betting) done in Vegas. Not calling you a liar or saying it didn't happen....just a new one to me.
I never said or indicated I was more or less qualified to judge anyone about anything. I know, what I know, and I know when I'm right. Feel free to make a legit bet against me when I'm fairly certain about something. And not some weaselly bet with tons of complications.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyWhatever, but that still doesn't mean that you are more qualified to judge than anybody else.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
You're a fool if you think that you are more qualified, so there's that.
Winning 10's of millions with what sized bets and over how long? If someone is betting 5 million a hand, and they win 10's of millions, the casino isn't going to think much of it. Oftentimes, the casino isn't concerned how much money a player wins at any given time, it's how consistent they are winning in direct relationship to the size of the bets. If you are an Advantage Player, or if they just cant figure out what's going on, they will eventually come to the conclusion that the frequency someone is winning at, isn't just simple luck. They might be wrong, but they don't care, its a better safe than sorry situation. A casino will stop comping, and even toss out a nickel video poker player if his results are way above normal.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyDo you suppose that MDawg's posted results would have the casino convinced that he's not been just lucky, that something else is going on?Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Eliot's guy who won 10s of millions got comped throughout his winning streak.
But you're insisting that MDawg could not have been comped as he has written, because he's on a winning streak?
They're going to cut off the comps? They're gonna let just him take their money and stay across the street?
Is that how it works?
I don’t care how many of your AP forum friends want to come here and back you up. You could say that you saw a man walking on the moon with your telescope, and they would say it must be true? Half of them have no idea who you really are and never meet you.
You have to wonder where Maxpen is? You know, the guy you confirmed for fact has more money than he’ll ever need when his finances were challenged. He must be loaded willing to pay for Singers security guards, give him 5K for this and 10K for that. Yet, when I asked him to explain how you know for fact, he had more money than he needs for the rest of his life in a thread he was posting in big time??? Crickets … and never put up a penny for anything he ever said anywhere. Actually, I’m starting to think he’s just another bullshitting you.
Let’s talk about a Vegas AP who both you and him confirmed on these forums of meeting and hanging with. “MONET” His opinion of you after meeting in real life was that you’re a fucking idiot and a bullshit artist. He challenged you several times on these forums about just that opinion of you. I know one thing for sure, most people wouldn’t put down anyone publicly who they have to work with in the same buildings / streets unless they knew for sure they could back up their comments.
Your 15 minutes are up Axelass. In fact, they’ve been up a long time ago. You just don’t want to realize it. You’re like that rabbit pounding the drum endlessly with good batteries.
I’ve read your childhood story you posted here, along with you also telling me you almost died (and if I remember correct) I think you said twice in the hospital. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. Most people would have problems with that type of background. Sadly, I think there is a good chance you’re venting with illusions on these forums for strength.
In addition, that whole thing with the 5K and MDawg, you’re starting to sound like Wizard of Nothing. Remember him? One of WOV allstar AP’s. Would you know if he ended up in jail?
Well, I should get around to a Coach Belly "number". Don't know how much longer you guys will be here to regale me.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyNo I don't think I will, tewlj.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
As long as you keep making no sense, I'll be there to point out what a tewl you are.
Look, again, it's so bizarre how these seem to work out here, and, I guess, there.
One interesting thing about these letters is the similarity to some found with Blackhole. I guess that there wasn't any friction between him, and Coach. They both have a reference to the area of law. One holds lawyers in contempt, but, the other waxes legal. Yes, there are dummy requests, or whatever you call it, intentionally inserted to see who is on the ball. I recall now one of the very few questions I was unsure of, at the English forum I played around, last fall. It had to do with what avoiding such requests was called.
https://english.stackexchange.com/qu...ruly-required#
Maybe, the crossword sleuths here might offer some terms or words for it. I don't know, but, maybe, too much "traction" leads to the moonwalk on the way to the rubber room. Ha. Or is it, A Ha?
Shut it down, Coach Belly --->
Down Athletic Club
Athletic Sound
The Body Acoustic
Boy called Twist
Bodily contact
Double Contact
Blood in the Cut
Synthetic alcohol
The City Law School
And to Hell with Us
Death by coconuts
Not The Daily Show
What Shouldn't I Be?
Beyond Acoustic
Dust collection
How Can I Tell You?
I'll Catch the Sun!
Ladies who lunch
She'll Cut a Bitch
The Catholic Sun
Absolutely Not
be on it's way out
Blue to This Day
Butty (sandwich)
byte and switch
Call to the cows
Chocolate Nuts
Clint Eastwood
Don't Be Shallow
Do the Boys' Hall
On The Ball, City
Haunted School
Slow education
Casino Bouchet
It's A Boy (The Who)
https://anagram-solver.net/Shut%20it...y?partial=true
Urban dictionary: Bouchet
Big dude with a big attitude.
Bouchet pulled a big one.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bouchet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yza3Z1zkrdQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN5zw04WxCc&list=RDYza3Z1zkrdQ&start_radio =1
Go to WOV and ask Dr Jacobsen, he has those details.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
But the doubters insist that MDawg cannot have won consistently and still get comped, and therefore he is lying.
Jacobsen's anecdote shows otherwise, that a player can both win consistently and get generously comped.
My understanding is that casinos generously comp winners to draw them back to the property where they won.
Doesn't that happen much more often rather than kicking them to the curb ?
I've read bet threads on WOV, but couldn't find any where the settlement had to be paid in advance.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
But MDawg's challenge wasn't even a bet...you had no money at risk.
You added a weaselly complication to his offer by requiring that the bonus be paid in advance.
But feel free to propose a bet over whatever you're certain about MDawg, I'll consider it.
You're clueless.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion