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Thread: The WoV Thread

  1. #1001
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    I formally apologize that my playing 25-cent video poker is the reason for any math or reading errors by other people. I will endeavor to help folks out by moving down to nickel vp on occasion.
    We're still waiting for you to explain to us how you moved a handful of six digit accumulated gambling sports wins over the years from off shore gambling sites to cash in hand.

  2. #1002
    I never said any of that. I never said "handful." I never said I "moved" anything. I never said "cash in hand." Reading is a fine art. Practice makes perfect.

    For those interested readers, I mention in passing that anyone (not me, of course) who banks in another country can move money. I also mention that people have been moving seven and eight digits with bitcoins for years.
    Last edited by redietz; 04-08-2018 at 08:15 AM.

  3. #1003
    Originally Posted by redietz View Post
    I never said any of that. I never said "handful." I never said I "moved" anything. I never said "cash in hand." Reading is a fine art. Practice makes perfect.

    For those interested readers, I mention in passing that anyone (not me, of course) who banks in another country can move money. I also mention that people have been moving seven and eight digits with bitcoins for years.
    Quote" "I could demonstrate six digit wins at a handful of offshores, but you'll never know if there were six digit losses at others."

    Show us six digit wins or losses. Show us anything even close to six digits with off shore sites.

  4. #1004
    Don't kid yourself. It's the gamblers who are looking for that one big client/win (or forum takeover), and who cry the blues to the rest of us when they never get it.
    True addicts are incredibly credible. Gambling is just another word for keep losing. Nothing funnier than watching people on an internet gambling site. A bozo's set of bozos whether "system" or "advantage" play. Each type to whichever degree could make billions in the markets were any of it true. It's great to be a spectator of gambling, ie, not to have one leg and arm stuck in the "grave" like the cunts, cowards and crackpots here. The only real thing on any gambling forum is the "nuts".

  5. #1005
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    I took a look at that WON thread at WOV. It appears BBB around pg. 51-52, got carried away with herself, and came to the protection of her hustling AP’s. She made a big to do about exposing plays on the site and how she was going to prevent that from happening.

    A couple of members appeared to grow some balls and challenged her like Drawing Dead did on pg.52. Then on pg. 54 she reappears and tries to explain her view and how she over reacted. So, now she says discussing AP moves is ok, but exposing a play for revenge is still not acceptable. Meanwhile not a single syllable from meatball Mike or the illegal banking transaction off shore casino promoters and owners of that cesspool.

    Also, notice the always full of gambling information guru RS makes an appearance in that thread and reminds the complainers how all the other sites like VCT are shitholes. Another words stop complaining and except what it really is, a Hustling AP site.

    Quick question for Monet if he knows. Axelwolf in that same thread mentioned Quote “Jamming machines would get techs to open machines and some machines will show you the machines hold.” When you open the slot door is their a poster hanging there with the hold on it? I always thought that was privileged information, and the hold is incorporated in the chip. Do you know any facts about that claim?
    I've never had a slot tech come work on a jammed bill accepter so can only guess that maybe he has to pull up a screen to fix it. There are several different screens used by the slot techs and several of them can pop up at once. One of them is the screen where the theoretical payback of the game is listed. If you are standing there you can get a look at it. This is huge where "must hit" machines are concerned because then you can zero in on the exact drop and what the meters are worth. In other words you don't have to guesstimate it.

    Although I've never done it I was told by a 10k must hit player that he always requests they activate the speed stop. They have to pull the screens up to do it so he gets a look at the payback screen He says he's never been turned down on the request.
    Keystone is a mental midget.

  6. #1006
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    Originally Posted by Prozema View Post
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post

    Quick question for Monet if he knows. Axelwolf in that same thread mentioned Quote “Jamming machines would get techs to open machines and some machines will show you the machines hold.” When you open the slot door is their a poster hanging there with the hold on it? I always thought that was privileged information, and the hold is incorporated in the chip. Do you know any facts about that claim?
    Hope you don't mind me answering instead of Monet... You'd see it on a screen that looks something like this.

    http://imgur.com/22zqxQ7
    I'm certain any slot attendant don't have that type of access. Don't that information require one person from the NGC with a key and another key from the casino to be able to view it?
    No. Even a floor attendent can pull up the screen. It's not super duper secret information. One of the best ways to get a look at the payback is when they are installing the machines. I've seen them sit there for hours with the payback screen showing.

    And sometimes when they just fix a minor problem they forget to key off the tabs to the screens and walk away. You just hit the tab for the payback and voila.

    In Montana they have the machines print out coin-in/coin-out tickets every morning. They sometimes forget to pick them up.
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 04-08-2018 at 01:39 PM.
    Keystone is a mental midget.

  7. #1007
    Some older machines have coin in meters. Based on that you can probably figure out the rest.

  8. #1008
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Although I've never done it I was told by a 10k must hit player that he always requests they activate the speed stop. They have to pull the screens up to do it so he gets a look at the payback screen He says he's never been turned down on the request.
    Sounds like a good AP move. Wouldn't that request work on all must hit machines? Why haven't you ever done it if you knew about it?

  9. #1009
    All this bad info is not good for anyone.

    It is simple. When a slot tech opens your machine for whatever reason, after completing the fix or whatever, he or she will usually, but is not required to, key thru the menu, and one of the pages on that shows coin in and coin out. It doesn't need to be a coin machine--credits are considered coins for any and all purposes. If the machine has five denominations for example, the coin in/coin out is shown in the lowest denomination (convert dollars to quarters etc. if 25c is the lowest denom. on the machine).

    Nowhere does it identify a % hold. You have to be able to read the screen, write down or remember the numbers, and figure it out.

    The 25c/50c/$1/2 machine I hit $28k worth of winners with a net $25k profit from last year, was opened after my last royal and I saw the data. The tech explained this all to me when I asked. Even after my massive amount of hits on a bar top that isn't regularly played higher than 25c or 50c, the hold % was around 12%. This was in the Silverrado Bar, where Dancer holds his classes. My guess is either he or his "students" play that machine regularly.

  10. #1010
    Originally Posted by blackhole View Post
    Originally Posted by mickeycrimm View Post
    Although I've never done it I was told by a 10k must hit player that he always requests they activate the speed stop. They have to pull the screens up to do it so he gets a look at the payback screen He says he's never been turned down on the request.
    Sounds like a good AP move. Wouldn't that request work on all must hit machines? Why haven't you ever done it if you knew about it?
    There are no must hits in Montana. I've been out in the other states for just a year. The 10K's I'm familiar with have $5 meters on them which equates to .2%. There is only a 1 in 5 chance that the meter will move up to $9800, a number I would play. The machines don't get a lot of action compared to others. They sit there for months even a year without a playable number developing.

    Then there is the competition factor. Some guys will play them at $9700. That's just a 2 or 3% edge. Moneywise, that's not much equity, just a couple thousand. If you get stretched out to like a cycle and half to hit it you can get in for twice as much as the meter pays. I don't want that kind of exposure. Like I said, these plays don't develop every day, week, or month. When do you get a chance to make the money up if the play goes tits on you. If they want to play them that low then they can have all the plays. I won't get involved. But I will throw down if I ever catch one at $9800.

    Now, as far as the friend who told me about requesting the speed stop be activated. I've known him for 16 years but I lost touch with him for a number of years. I turns out that he has been holed up in Albuquerque since 2011. He had a super duper $5 denom NSUD progressive play (1%meter) at the Santa Ana Star in Bernalillo. The card was worth .2%, double points on Fridays, 5X points on Mondays, 3X points on Wednesdays. They kicked him out last year and stripped the $5 denom out. And the bank still has the 1% meter for dollars but you don't get points for play anymore.

    He also played the 10K's. He told me how he got to look at the payback screens just two months ago.

    Now, I do get occasional plays on the 50/500 must hits. Way haven't I requested them to activate the speed stop? I don't do anything to draw attention to myself.
    Keystone is a mental midget.

  11. #1011
    The coin in meters have been discussed before on this forum and other forums and in articles. They have nothing to do with the hold of any machine. Never have they had anything to do with the hold or figuring the hold. They are strictly to measure what they say -- coin in and coin out -- which may not necessarily come close to the designed hold of the machine.

    Once again CALL the friendly staff at the Nevada Gaming Commission and ask them. You do not need to be a member of the press to call and ask any question.

  12. #1012
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    Interesting artice about slots:

    http://www.dunngamingsolutions.com/f...GT_SPA-1-2.pdf

    Meters are discussed.
    What, Me Worry?

  13. #1013
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    The coin in meters have been discussed before on this forum and other forums and in articles. They have nothing to do with the hold of any machine. Never have they had anything to do with the hold or figuring the hold. They are strictly to measure what they say -- coin in and coin out -- which may not necessarily come close to the designed hold of the machine.

    Once again CALL the friendly staff at the Nevada Gaming Commission and ask them. You do not need to be a member of the press to call and ask any question.
    I'm not sure what you're saying, and which machines you're referring to. I don't know on slots (I'm guessing your reply refers to slots and not vp because you mentioned a "designed hold"), but on the vp machines there's a page on the menu that brings up "coin in" (say 3,567,418) and "coin out" (say 3,194,202). These are actual numbers converted to the machine's lowest denomination.

    This is what I was told at South Point anyway. Seems to make sense.

  14. #1014
    The document that MisterV posted above explains it. The figures for coin in and coin out do not represent the hold of the machine. The key thing is coin in and coin out are short term, and also you don't know when the coin in meters are reset.

    It is very frustrating to see this issue come up again and again.

  15. #1015
    Originally Posted by MisterV View Post
    Interesting artice about slots:

    http://www.dunngamingsolutions.com/f...GT_SPA-1-2.pdf

    Meters are discussed.
    The key statement here is "Much of our slot accounting and performance analysis is dependent on the readings of the game meters.
    Keystone is a mental midget.

  16. #1016
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    The document that MisterV posted above explains it. The figures for coin in and coin out do not represent the hold of the machine. The key thing is coin in and coin out are short term, and also you don't know when the coin in meters are reset.

    It is very frustrating to see this issue come up again and again.
    The coin-in/coin-out meters were never reset, at least on the old machines. They were either six-digit or seven-digit and simply rolled over. Like on a six-digit, when it reached 999999 it would just roll back over to 000000 and upward.
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 04-09-2018 at 02:46 AM.
    Keystone is a mental midget.

  17. #1017
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    The coin in meters have been discussed before on this forum and other forums and in articles. They have nothing to do with the hold of any machine. Never have they had anything to do with the hold or figuring the hold. They are strictly to measure what they say -- coin in and coin out -- which may not necessarily come close to the designed hold of the machine.

    Once again CALL the friendly staff at the Nevada Gaming Commission and ask them. You do not need to be a member of the press to call and ask any question.
    Why are you dropping the NGC name here? Did you call them over this issue?
    Keystone is a mental midget.

  18. #1018
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    The document that MisterV posted above explains it. The figures for coin in and coin out do not represent the hold of the machine. The key thing is coin in and coin out are short term, and also you don't know when the coin in meters are reset.

    It is very frustrating to see this issue come up again and again.
    Of course coin in / coin out isn't going to show exactly what the house edge of a machine is....but if there's a significant sample size, then you can get a pretty good idea of the HE on a machine. I'm talking about slots. If the meter is at a few thousand, then it could very likely be way off. If it's in the millions, it's probably pretty accurate.

  19. #1019
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    The document that MisterV posted above explains it. The figures for coin in and coin out do not represent the hold of the machine. The key thing is coin in and coin out are short term, and also you don't know when the coin in meters are reset.

    It is very frustrating to see this issue come up again and again.
    So if a machine is showing 7 million coin in and 6.5 million coin-out you consider that to be short term? And why are you frustrated?
    Last edited by mickeycrimm; 04-09-2018 at 02:48 AM.
    Keystone is a mental midget.

  20. #1020
    Originally Posted by RS__ View Post
    Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson View Post
    The document that MisterV posted above explains it. The figures for coin in and coin out do not represent the hold of the machine. The key thing is coin in and coin out are short term, and also you don't know when the coin in meters are reset.

    It is very frustrating to see this issue come up again and again.
    Of course coin in / coin out isn't going to show exactly what the house edge of a machine is....but if there's a significant sample size, then you can get a pretty good idea of the HE on a machine. I'm talking about slots. If the meter is at a few thousand, then it could very likely be way off. If it's in the millions, it's probably pretty accurate.
    Another factor, before the high tech, was how much payback do the handpays represent? On the old IGT slots, before 2000, coin-out meters just recorded non-handpay payouts. Some games have more handpays than others, like 10X Pay. If you look at the meters on those games they are usually showing 70% or 80% payback.

    But in the case of the Wild Cherry Pies, an AP game, there was only one handpay and that was for the top line when betting two coins. The frequency of the top line hit was 360,000 so it represented less than 1% of the payback. I tracked the coin-in/coin-out on the Vision games. You could look though the screen past the third reel and see the meters. A Cherry Pie or Diamond Thief showing a 92% return played a hell of a lot better than one showing an 88% return. They had different requirements for what was playable.
    Keystone is a mental midget.

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