No you're not down from playing, just like you wouldn't be down from playing if you tip the valet to keep your car out front when you get there.Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
No you're not down from playing, just like you wouldn't be down from playing if you tip the valet to keep your car out front when you get there.Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
If you leave the casino with less money than when you arrived there you are down regardless if it was a gaming loss or from the cost of doing business. An exception is the small percentage of people who just go to the casino for entertainment purposes who really can afford the price, and not overextend themselves financially.Originally Posted by coach bellyNo you're not down from playing, just like you wouldn't be down from playing if you tip the valet to keep your car out front when you get there.Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
More complete nonsense.Originally Posted by BoSox
Do room and board count as gaming losses?
Do you subtract vehicle expenses & clothing allowance from your gambling roll too?
Is your entire life a business?
There are plenty of new AP players starting out with small to questionable bankrolls, who count every single dollar spent while out on the road in search of their dream. So the cost of all the incidentals etc does play a major factor in success or failure in the endeavor.Originally Posted by coach bellyMore complete nonsense.Originally Posted by BoSox
Do room and board count as gaming losses?
Do you subtract vehicle expenses & clothing allowance from your gambling roll too?
Is your entire life a business?
Did anyone tell you that you've got a mean streak in you? Whatever the reason it's very unbecoming and getting old and completely unnecessary.
Are you throwing stones from inside a glass house?Originally Posted by BoSox
Where do you get off counselling me?Originally Posted by BoSox
Originally Posted by coach bellyMore complete nonsense.Originally Posted by BoSox
Do room and board count as gaming losses?
Do you subtract vehicle expenses & clothing allowance from your gambling roll too?
Is your entire life a business?
An example of my thoughts on this subject. I am about to take a break and leave the table with $2015 of which 1k was my buy-in. I color up but not before the three reds are already in my shirt pocket thinking that I am up either 1k or $985 if I tip because I also have to account for the $15 cost of using the highway EZ Pass. Fuck that dealer asshole, who cares if he has five kids.
Last edited by BoSox; 12-02-2020 at 03:31 PM.
Wow Bosox. And a merry Christmas to you too.Originally Posted by BoSox
I share you overall view and I share your earlier statement that small tokes are never appreciated. I actually had a dealer once say to me, when I toked a couple dollars "Thanks, now i can buy a newspaper". And just as Bosox said the toke whoring has really grown out of control. Any dealer engaging in that should be fired on the spot.
Advantage players and recreational gamblers see tipping through very different spectrums. For recreational gamblers, out having a good time, the dealer is part of the entertainment I guess. Like a dancing monkey. So they tip. I see some players playing red or even light green tipping $5 on every $25 and $50 bet. They are now playing to a 10%-20% disadvantage instead of the normal house edge of half a percent for a decent basic strategy player. There is almost no chance they encounter decent variance and win for that night. They might as well of just mailed a check. But I guess they got whatever entertainment value a grown man or woman dealing cards provided. To go back to the dancing monkey analogy, a dancing monkey and/or the person that trained the monkey is much more worthy of a tip than a dealer IMO.
Unlike Bosox's rather harsh assessment, I feel for the dealer struggling to make a living, just as I feel for a fast food worker or the cashier at CVS that I may stop at on the way home. Not the high school kids, but the middle aged people working those jobs that may be struggling to raise a family. Am I supposed to tip every person I encounter that is struggling to raise a family? To supplement every person I encounter? That is not the way it works. I give to charities of my choosing, I can not afford to give to every low paid worker that I encounter, dealers included. If their pay is insignificant, they have the option to try to find a better job, or go back to school.
Now I do tip a bit at the tables. Lets go by the numbers. My EV (expected win) for any year from blackjack is about 80 grand. I play about 60,000 rounds to get there. That tells you what I make, a little over $1 a round. What would be a good amount for me to tip? $1 a round. I would be tipping $60,000 of my $80,000 expected win as mentioned earlier that still wouldn't be appreciated. What if I said, ok, I'll tip 10% of my expected win. That works out to about $1 every 6 or 7 rounds. Even worse as far as appreciation. Downright contempt. Dealers think a player should tip 25% of their bet, repeatedly. I witness it all the time. And you know what, to earn that just over $1 a round in EV, I have to have a large bet in +counts of several hundred dollars. Try tipping a $1 or $2 when you are betting $400 and see the reaction.
So what I have adopted is I will tip $5 at the conclusion of a decent winning session, which because I play short sessions is 20 minutes or so. Losing session, I tip zero. I mean if every dealer got $5 from every player a couple times and hour, they are doing ok. More than the dancing monkey's should make.
And let me ask this? why does tipping stop at table games? If I am playing a poker machine should I seek out an attendant and tip $1 every round I play? Of course not. So it is accepted that there is an additional hidden fee added on to the house edge expected for table games, but not machine play. Interesting.
In short a dealer is not providing a personalized service to me, no matter how much they want to pretend. Not like a waiter, waitress, bartender, bell hop, delivery person. They just aren't! They are providing a very menial task, dealing the cards. Really a monkey could be taught that job and at some point robots and computers will be the dealers. That has started already. Do you know some of those computerized video blackjack games, the 5 seaters with the video dealers have an option to tip. Give me a break!
Do you members really read these kind of lengthy posts?Originally Posted by kewlJWow Bosox. And a merry Christmas to you too.Originally Posted by BoSox
I share you overall view and I share your earlier statement that small tokes are never appreciated. I actually had a dealer once say to me, when I toked a couple dollars "Thanks, now i can buy a newspaper". And just as Bosox said the toke whoring has really grown out of control. Any dealer engaging in that should be fired on the spot.
Advantage players and recreational gamblers see tipping through very different spectrums. For recreational gamblers, out having a good time, the dealer is part of the entertainment I guess. Like a dancing monkey. So they tip. I see some players playing red or even light green tipping $5 on every $25 and $50 bet. They are now playing to a 10%-20% disadvantage instead of the normal house edge of half a percent for a decent basic strategy player. There is almost no chance they encounter decent variance and win for that night. They might as well of just mailed a check. But I guess they got whatever entertainment value a grown man or woman dealing cards provided. To go back to the dancing monkey analogy, a dancing monkey and/or the person that trained the monkey is much more worthy of a tip than a dealer IMO.
Unlike Bosox's rather harsh assessment, I feel for the dealer struggling to make a living, just as I feel for a fast food worker or the cashier at CVS that I may stop at on the way home. Not the high school kids, but the middle aged people working those jobs that may be struggling to raise a family. Am I supposed to tip every person I encounter that is struggling to raise a family? To supplement every person I encounter? That is not the way it works. I give to charities of my choosing, I can not afford to give to every low paid worker that I encounter, dealers included. If their pay is insignificant, they have the option to try to find a better job, or go back to school.
Now I do tip a bit at the tables. Lets go by the numbers. My EV (expected win) for any year from blackjack is about 80 grand. I play about 60,000 rounds to get there. That tells you what I make, a little over $1 a round. What would be a good amount for me to tip? $1 a round. I would be tipping $60,000 of my $80,000 expected win as mentioned earlier that still wouldn't be appreciated. What if I said, ok, I'll tip 10% of my expected win. That works out to about $1 every 6 or 7 rounds. Even worse as far as appreciation. Downright contempt. Dealers think a player should tip 25% of their bet, repeatedly. I witness it all the time. And you know what, to earn that just over $1 a round in EV, I have to have a large bet in +counts of several hundred dollars. Try tipping a $1 or $2 when you are betting $400 and see the reaction.
So what I have adopted is I will tip $5 at the conclusion of a decent winning session, which because I play short sessions is 20 minutes or so. Losing session, I tip zero. I mean if every dealer got $5 from every player a couple times and hour, they are doing ok. More than the dancing monkey's should make.
And let me ask this? why does tipping stop at table games? If I am playing a poker machine should I seek out an attendant and tip $1 every round I play? Of course not. So it is accepted that there is an additional hidden fee added on to the house edge expected for table games, but not machine play. Interesting.
In short a dealer is not providing a personalized service to me, no matter how much they want to pretend. Not like a waiter, waitress, bartender, bell hop, delivery person. They just aren't! They are providing a very menial task, dealing the cards. Really a monkey could be taught that job and at some point robots and computers will be the dealers. That has started already. Do you know some of those computerized video blackjack games, the 5 seaters with the video dealers have an option to tip. Give me a break!
Mind-boggling.
The bottom line is you leave the casino with less money than you went in with. That's losing in my book. Perhaps you've never heard the old joke by....I think it was Julian Braun:Originally Posted by coach bellyNo you're not down from playing, just like you wouldn't be down from playing if you tip the valet to keep your car out front when you get there.Originally Posted by mickeycrimm
What's the difference between a professional blackjack player and a canoe?
A canoe tips.
Pro blackjack players play a pretty thin edge so most don't tip. Or at least they say they don't. Even modest tipping can tip your whole hourly rate away.
In baccarat you are giving up at least 1% in the game so tipping hurts you even more. Yeah, sure it doesn't effect the edge in the game....but it does effect your bottom line. If you tip you will leave the casino with less money than if you not tipped.
Druff, let us know when you receive redietz’ credit score.
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmOriginally Posted by MaxPen
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