The Verdict Is?

[accountinquestion]

As a substitute for something that would settle the matter in your favor. Proof.

How about YOU show proof of what happened to this "mid 7 figure LV mansion" you claimed you purchase or explain how 7 months of winning claims totaling 500k turned into "about even" overnight, and then we can talk about me showing proof. How about that wise guy?

And I actually have a very good reason for NOT showing proof and that reason is YOU. You have doxed me repeatedly, again in the last 24 hours. Everything you can get your hands on, you attempt to use to harm my career. And I shouldn't give you this satisfaction, but you have succeeded. I have had to play less and earn less over the past few years, AND learn to play very differently, playing more crowded busier times at larger casinos, than the smaller "locals" casino I have played for most of my time here in Vegas. There is updated information on one of my entries in the database because of you. I think this incident that you demand proof of indirectly resulted from your efforts. And I have no idea just what kind of blackjack play, if any I will be able to have going forward.

From before I posted a word about this incident, or decided what I was going to do, I was immediately concerned about you gaining more information to further dox me. I expressed that concern to multiple people, including Wizard.

So just fuck off with you demanding of anything of me. If I encounter, you I might just extract a little revenge of my own.

If you are a serious AP then why are you picking a fight with someone like MDawg? You bring this shit upon yourself. I get into internet beefs but I never put effort into keeping them going.

Who all have I had a beef on here with? Monet, Tableplay, Crimm, Singer, Redietz .. and others. Outside of Redietz and the occasional shot at Monet I really don't troll any of these guys. I don't even troll Redietz unless he comes on here taking shots at APs. I even recognize Tableplay for having the best math skills of any active poster on this forum. It can be fun internet-beefing for a few days but at some point it gets old and I'd rather have adult conversations with people. There are a lot of very knowledgeable people on here. You on the other hand keep it going for years on end. I get Singer winds you up but still...

Speaking of which - I kinda wish there was a sub-forum that was invite only and we could talk more openly. Just too many machine people who can't figure out anything on their own. They don't need to be spoon fed info that isn't widely known. I came up with an idea on how to possibly determine the RTP of a specific machine but need other data points. I sure am not going to post it on here .. but I'd gladly discuss it with any regulars. Anyway.. back to the point at hand.


I'd probably meet any of the people listed above under the right circumstances. Real APs respect the anonymity of others. You can claim they're all out to backstab you but not really. I would not meet Redietz ..

[kewlJ]

Speaking of which - I kinda wish there was a sub-forum that was invite only and we could talk more openly. Just too many machine people who can't figure out anything on their own. They don't need to be spoon fed info that isn't widely known. I came up with an idea on how to possibly determine the RTP of a specific machine but need other data points.

Blackjack has this. It is a private forum inaccessible to those who are not members and have been vetted by membership. If you google blackjack forums, it won't show up. It is a private membership forum. And it is not exactly a blackjack forum. There are players that do all kinds of different AP plays, but there are a lot of blackjack players or former blackjack players that have expanded out to other things. This kind of private forum wasn't even necessary until 5-8 years ago. Most of these AP's were on public AP/blackjack forum. It is all the trolling that public forums have become that lead to these private forums.

As for AP's that I know and network with....some have come to this forum and verified that they know me, know people that know me, and communicate with me privately. They never stay long before they are driven away. I will give you a name and a partial name. Kim Lee and 2xxxxme. The second asked me not to mention his name on this forum, which he refers to as the "urinal forum". He probably won't like me using the partially redated version. I am sure there have been one of two others as well, although I can't come up with any right now.

Dude this is a troll forum. The "urinal" name fits. I even troll back at times. But you can't have this kind of forum and then wonder why so few APs and real players won't show up and participate.

Now I will tell you something I have never said before. The message I received from an AP that was playing the El cortez game that I unknowingly exposed or ended was received at my email address. I have posted that here once I think, because Rob Singer immediately sent me an nasty email. Almost as expected. But for the most part, I hear from real AP that I network with and even just occasionally communicate with via my email, and the trolls here. So, this nasty, kind of threatening (just enough to express that he/she was pissed) message came via email. And it was a throw-away account used just to send that particular email.

So I don't think it was anyone from here. I briefly though maybe one of the 2or 3 LV AP's that are here, like Axelwolf or MaxPen. But fairly quickly dismissed that. I think it was one of the LV AP's, maybe someone that I network with or talk to occasionally, that just wanted me to know they were pissed. Hopefully they have forgiven me and understand it wasn't intentional...just stupidity on my part.

[kewlJ]

Mickey is that really you in the picture and previous ones that have been posted? If you answer no the following questions, which are just out of curiosity, need not be answered.

What is in the can? It looks like it says orange? Is it something alcoholic, which would mean you are double fisting? (nothing wrong with that)

Why does there appear to be no other patrons in the bar? Is it 9am or something? (and I am not judging that either).

[mickeycrimm]

Mickey is that really you in the picture and previous ones that have been posted? If you answer no the following questions, which are just out of curiosity, need not be answered.

What is in the can? It looks like it says orange? Is it something alcoholic, which would mean you are double fisting? (nothing wrong with that)

Why does there appear to be no other patrons in the bar? Is it 9am or something? (and I am not judging that either).

The bar wasn't empty. You just can't see to the left or right. But it wasn't real busy either. Mid winter weeknight. Can't remember what the orange drink was, a light alcoholic beverage. I generally used a beer chaser but that night I changed up for some reason.

Last time I had a drink was in that same bar, Feb. 28, 2017. It was called That Bar back then. Downtown Great Falls. Now called Snits.

[Rob.Singer]

Speaking of which - I kinda wish there was a sub-forum that was invite only and we could talk more openly. Just too many machine people who can't figure out anything on their own. They don't need to be spoon fed info that isn't widely known. I came up with an idea on how to possibly determine the RTP of a specific machine but need other data points.

Blackjack has this. It is a private forum inaccessible to those who are not members and have been vetted by membership. If you google blackjack forums, it won't show up. It is a private membership forum. And it is not exactly a blackjack forum. There are players that do all kinds of different AP plays, but there are a lot of blackjack players or former blackjack players that have expanded out to other things. This kind of private forum wasn't even necessary until 5-8 years ago. Most of these AP's were on public AP/blackjack forum. It is all the trolling that public forums have become that lead to these private forums.

As for AP's that I know and network with....some have come to this forum and verified that they know me, know people that know me, and communicate with me privately. They never stay long before they are driven away. I will give you a name and a partial name. Kim Lee and 2xxxxme. The second asked me not to mention his name on this forum, which he refers to as the "urinal forum". He probably won't like me using the partially redated version. I am sure there have been one of two others as well, although I can't come up with any right now.

Dude this is a troll forum. The "urinal" name fits. I even troll back at times. But you can't have this kind of forum and then wonder why so few APs and real players won't show up and participate.

Now I will tell you something I have never said before. The message I received from an AP that was playing the El cortez game that I unknowingly exposed or ended was received at my email address. I have posted that here once I think, because Rob Singer immediately sent me an nasty email. Almost as expected. But for the most part, I hear from real AP that I network with and even just occasionally communicate with via my email, and the trolls here. So, this nasty, kind of threatening (just enough to express that he/she was pissed) message came via email. And it was a throw-away account used just to send that particular email.

So I don't think it was anyone from here. I briefly though maybe one of the 2or 3 LV AP's that are here, like Axelwolf or MaxPen. But fairly quickly dismissed that. I think it was one of the LV AP's, maybe someone that I network with or talk to occasionally, that just wanted me to know they were pissed. Hopefully they have forgiven me and understand it wasn't intentional...just stupidity on my part.

You are so full of shit. Trying to divert things away from your history of lying just to create some warped concocted online gaming forum image of yourself is as cheap as the two-bit life you really lead and have been caught fabricating about.

Grow up.

[kewlJ]

You are so full of shit. Trying to divert things away from your history of lying just to create some warped concocted online gaming forum image of yourself is as cheap as the two-bit life you really lead and have been caught fabricating about.

Grow up.

***YAWNS*** Just more of the same.

What is my name Rob?

[MaxPen]

Let's get back on track.

The verdict is


GUILTY OF FRAUD



Someone should redo the poll....lol

[Gottlob1]

The verdict is

GUILTY OF FRAUD

Hardly. No money changed hands, with no thus promises made.

[MaxPen]

The verdict is

GUILTY OF FRAUD

Hardly. No money changed hands, with no thus promises made.

Semantics. Now get back to muttering your gibberish...RIP

[Gottlob1]

The verdict is

GUILTY OF FRAUD

Hardly. No money changed hands, with no thus promises made.

Semantics. Now get back to muttering your gibberish...RIP

Hardly. And, it hardly takes two lawyers, or the likes of PosV, or you. I realized that KJ was totally full of it, at least ten years ago, after he posted up rather disparate earnings results, supposedly, for consecutive years of very similar play. I mean, anyone who did thus simulations could immediately spot the nonsense. After tens of thousand of hands of anything, you're going to get results down to the same second decimal place, each time.

P.S. It never ceases to amaze me how almost every single one of you guys is five to ten years behind the times.

And, years later, KJ looking at the other two tables in the mirrors on the ceiling. Betting, supposedly, $706 instead of $700 to fool the pit. Good God. Anyone who believed such, sight unseen, let alone argue endlessly over it, has to have his head examined.

[kewlJ]

I realized that KJ was totally full of it, at least ten years ago, after he posted up rather disparate earnings results, supposedly, for consecutive years of very similar play. I mean, anyone who did thus simulations could immediately spot the nonsense. After tens of thousand of hands of anything, you're going to get results down to the same second decimal place, each time.

Betting, supposedly, $706 instead of $700 to fool the pit. Good God.

BillYung do you just make shit up to suit yourself? This is the kind of stuff that irks me and ends up drawing me back in for no reason, but it does irk me.

Let's start with the second statement $706 instead of $700. Never said anything even remotely like this. Not even the same universe. Betting odd amounts is known as rainbow wagering because it involved different denomination and color chips. Some "shot-takers" both AP and not AP's attempt to do this trying to entice dealer mistakes which they will point out when not in their favor and say nothing when it is in their favor. But pit folks now know this so betting odd amounts only draws a little extra attention from pit.

More importantly for me, I am an opponent of rainbow wagering (or betting odd amounts) because it slows the game down. For a card counter, time is money. Slower games means less EV and money earned. It is that simple. But additionally, when a card counter has his max bet or bigger bets out is the time he is most exposed. So again, you want the game moving along. The last thing you want to do is sit there exposed with your bigger bet while the dealer figures out the payout on some odd amount blackjack and the pit has to come over to verify. So this is just made up. I never said anything even close to this.

Now I will go back to the first statement. Consecutive years right down to the second digit. Just to be clear you are talking like $83k, two consecutive years? I got rid of most of my records for all but the last 5 years or so, not long ago. Just clogging up too much space on the computer. But I almost positive I have never had two consecutive years down to the second digit. As a matter of fact, during much of my time in Vegas, I have had "yo-yo" ing years. One under expectation, the next over, the next under....that type of thing. Trying to give you the benefit of doubt, I have talked about "averages" alot. For a long time, I was averaging just about 80k from blackjack and another 20k from supplemental AP play. But that 80k average would be 74k, 88k, 81k and so on.

So can I ask you to link to both these statements?

edit: by exposed, I mean the pit and surveillance has extra time to notice and evaluate the bet spread. That is the danger area. We want the game to move along....nice even flow.

[mickeycrimm]

The verdict is

GUILTY OF FRAUD

Hardly. No money changed hands, with no thus promises made.

This might be the first post I like from you. Brain dead max the maggot doesn't know the difference between fraud and a ruse. Bwahahahahahahahahhaahahahahha!

[Gottlob1]

The verdict is

GUILTY OF FRAUD

Hardly. No money changed hands, with no thus promises made.

This might be the first post I like from you. Brain dead max the maggot doesn't know the difference between fraud and a ruse.

It's too bad that shows like GWAE never allowed for the true rest of the story, say, with a regular like Blackhole, to counter the gambling baloney. Now that would have been some Goddamn funny radio.

[MisterV]

Hardly. No money changed hands, with no thus promises made.

So what?

Fraud actually requires neither, it most certainly does not require both.

"Fraud becomes a crime when it is a “knowing misrepresentation of the truth or concealment of a material fact to induce another to act to his or her detriment”

Hopefully your "Theory of Everything" gets it right, but I won't hold my breath.

[Gottlob1]

Hardly. No money changed hands, with no thus promises made.

So what?

Fraud actually requires neither, it most certainly does not require both.

"Fraud becomes a crime when it is a “knowing misrepresentation of the truth or concealment of a material fact to induce another to act to his or her detriment”

Hopefully your "Theory of Everything" gets it right, but I won't hold my breath.

Actually, I wouldn't worry about my theory. Especially not now.

As far as the English language is concerned, there are quite a few tricks to pick up from the professional thus forums. One is the use of ngrams, which have to do with frequency of usage, of words and phrases, over the decades, and centuries. Another held in fairly high regard is a site called Wikidiff, which I went to, first.

Fraud is a synonym of trickery.

As nouns the difference between trickery and fraud is that trickery is deception or underhanded behavior while fraud is any act of deception carried out for the purpose of unfair, undeserved and/or unlawful gain.

As a verb fraud is to defraud.

https://wikidiff.com/trickery/fraud

Beyond that, it's fairly obvious that what KJ does isn't per se even trickery. Anyone can and may claim to be a blackjack player, and, such claims can inherently carry absolutely zero weight, or accreditation, or other perceived responsibility to the public. Even the back-room nonsense came replete with no pictures, witnesses, or other supporting data, presented as a hoax.

Moreover, as I tried to explain to Monet, some months back, dictionaries aren't meant to be definitive, or consistent, etc, but, mostly as a reflection of the frequency of usage at a given point in history. Otherwise, they would come with built-in theories of everything.

[AxelWolf]

Speaking of which - I kinda wish there was a sub-forum that was invite only and we could talk more openly. Just too many machine people who can't figure out anything on their own. They don't need to be spoon fed info that isn't widely known. I came up with an idea on how to possibly determine the RTP of a specific machine but need other data points.

Blackjack has this. It is a private forum inaccessible to those who are not members and have been vetted by membership. If you google blackjack forums, it won't show up. It is a private membership forum. And it is not exactly a blackjack forum. There are players that do all kinds of different AP plays, but there are a lot of blackjack players or former blackjack players that have expanded out to other things. This kind of private forum wasn't even necessary until 5-8 years ago. Most of these AP's were on public AP/blackjack forum. It is all the trolling that public forums have become that lead to these private forums.

As for AP's that I know and network with....some have come to this forum and verified that they know me, know people that know me, and communicate with me privately. They never stay long before they are driven away. I will give you a name and a partial name. Kim Lee and 2xxxxme. The second asked me not to mention his name on this forum, which he refers to as the "urinal forum". He probably won't like me using the partially redated version. I am sure there have been one of two others as well, although I can't come up with any right now.

Dude this is a troll forum. The "urinal" name fits. I even troll back at times. But you can't have this kind of forum and then wonder why so few APs and real players won't show up and participate.

Now I will tell you something I have never said before. The message I received from an AP that was playing the El cortez game that I unknowingly exposed or ended was received at my email address. I have posted that here once I think, because Rob Singer immediately sent me an nasty email. Almost as expected. But for the most part, I hear from real AP that I network with and even just occasionally communicate with via my email, and the trolls here. So, this nasty, kind of threatening (just enough to express that he/she was pissed) message came via email. And it was a throw-away account used just to send that particular email.

So I don't think it was anyone from here. I briefly though maybe one of the 2or 3 LV AP's that are here, like Axelwolf or MaxPen. But fairly quickly dismissed that. I think it was one of the LV AP's, maybe someone that I network with or talk to occasionally, that just wanted me to know they were pissed. Hopefully they have forgiven me and understand it wasn't intentional...just stupidity on my part.

My anonymity (AxelWolf) on the forums is not to hide or be secretive to legitimate members or people or that I have something to hide. I think I have proven that many many times over. I believe I have only ever declined one meetup. It's solely done specifically to not associate my name as/with being an Advantage Player and crazy people. Sure, many casinos already know, but why advertise it for free given them no doubt whatsoever? Heck, there are many online casinos that actually have rules that state no professionals, Advantage Players, or whatever.

I know when I first signed up at WOV and some other forums I used a different more descriptive name and quickly realized that wasn't a good idea. In the decade + I have been on the forums I can't be certain I haven't EVER sent an anonymous email or whatever for some strange reason. I vaguely remember sending a possible spammer a message from a dedicated spam email inquiring about whatever he was offering(we set up Bitcoin casinos or whatever, I don't remember).

But I can tell you 100% for sure I don't pull any fake accounts or anonymous email B.S. with legitimate members on the forums or with legitimate people. That's not my style so I don't know why I came to your mind. I'm not claiming I'm some righteous person who's above that, It's just not me, and I can't think of a good reason to do so.

I wish I did, because a number of times when I politely asked someone if they could ixnay on the unsay, it has come back to bite me in the ass. People took my polite request as me attempting to tell them what to do. And now I'm the bad guy. Little did they know, I was asked by OTHERS in many of those cases if I could contact that person and talk to them about exposing TMI.

I actually had this issue with Monet. I didn't even care about the stuff he was talking about, but others did and they asked me to talk to him. I'm the one who caught the backlash.

Remember the flagging of DarkOz's post down, I took the blame and many were involved.
There have been many other times as well.

[kewlJ]

If you are a serious AP then why are you picking a fight with someone like MDawg? You bring this shit upon yourself. I get into internet beefs but I never put effort into keeping them going.

I did not set out to pick a fight with Mdawg. It took a very short time of reading before I knew he was full of shit. But I wasn't even an active member (banned at the time) on the forum he was on at that time. It took 6 months to a year before I was able to say anything to him. I forget which occurred first, either he brought his claim here or I was re-instated at WoV. At that point Yes I did challenge these claims. You ask why a "serious" AP would do that? The answer is because we are a serious or real AP. It gets to a point that any real player just has to say something. I don't know if you read WoV, but over 20 known members many real and known AP's said something....and many were suspended for it. It just gets to a point that a real player says "come on man...that's not the way it works".

With me it is the repetitiveness. There are many people that say something or make some sort of claim that I almost immediately think is bullshit, and I never say a word. It is only when they repeat it over and over and over, that I say "come on man....".

And yes, I probably stayed on the Mdawg thing longer than necessary. But he keeps repeating, even to this day. So I keep on it.

I had nothing against Mdawg at the beginning. I like to read accounts of peoples casino play. Even trip reports from non-APs. And Mdawg as a higher level player, had a good story to tell. The story of a player, who likes to gamble, wins and losses and accumulates comps accordingly, even playing the comp game well for better than normal comps. Great story because of the higher limit play and higher comps. Everyone would have enjoyed that story. But he couldn't do that. He had to claim all this winning with almost no losing. You know....The "Pope of Las Vegas" shit.

[accountinquestion]

If you are a serious AP then why are you picking a fight with someone like MDawg? You bring this shit upon yourself. I get into internet beefs but I never put effort into keeping them going.

I did not set out to pick a fight with Mdawg. It took a very short time of reading before I knew he was full of shit. But I wasn't even an active member (banned at the time) on the forum he was on at that time. It took 6 months to a year before I was able to say anything to him. I forget which occurred first, either he brought his claim here or I was re-instated at WoV. At that point Yes I did challenge these claims. You ask why a "serious" AP would do that? The answer is because we are a serious or real AP. It gets to a point that any real player just has to say something. I don't know if you read WoV, but over 20 known members many real and known AP's said something....and many were suspended for it. It just gets to a point that a real player says "come on man...that's not the way it works".

With me it is the repetitiveness. There are many people that say something or make some sort of claim that I almost immediately think is bullshit, and I never say a word. It is only when they repeat it over and over and over, that I say "come on man....".

And yes, I probably stayed on the Mdawg thing longer than necessary. But he keeps repeating, even to this day. So I keep on it.

I had nothing against Mdawg at the beginning. I like to read accounts of peoples casino play. Even trip reports from non-APs. And Mdawg as a higher level player, had a good story to tell. The story of a player, who likes to gamble, wins and losses and accumulates comps accordingly, even playing the comp game well for better than normal comps. Great story because of the higher limit play and higher comps. Everyone would have enjoyed that story. But he couldn't do that. He had to claim all this winning with almost no losing. You know....The "Pope of Las Vegas" shit.

It is one thing to say a few things and it is another to hound someone. Everyone went after Singer because it was so lolz and Singer asks for it. Mdawg doesn't. I don't particularly believe him but it doesn't matter.

He's just happy to be with us people and thats all that matters.

Anyway, no one is getting anywhere with you. It is all self-serving crap using the same tactics to avoid being able to verify anything. Saying the reason you obsess over Mdawg is because you're a real AP. lol okey dokey buddy.

I feel like I'm taking on your persona at this point. ugh

Even if you managed to convince Kim Lee that doesn't really speak to all the other lies. Whether this broken arm thing or otherwise. You play with someone at the same table and they see you play properly. It doesn't mean all that much.

[kewlJ]

It doesn't mean all that much.

What is it exactly that would suffice in your mind?

You said no one knows who I am or has played with me. On this forum with 2-3 LV APs, 2 have said they have seen me and have played at the same table or others that they know have seen me at the tables.

So now you seem to want to move the goal post? What is it that you require? Should I record ever session with a hidden body cam? Should I post tax returns like Rob and every other member have done? (no one has)

Should I post the deed to my condominium? (not going to happen)

What the fuck is it that you want from me AinQ?

And what have you posted as proof of anything? Tax returns? NO. The deed to your home? NO. Screenshot of your bank account? NO.

Yeah I had forgot about the demand by these crazies that I post a screen shot of my bank account.

[accountinquestion]

And what have you posted as proof of anything? Tax returns? NO. The deed to your home? NO. Screenshot of your bank account? NO.

Yeah I had forgot about the demand by these crazies that I post a screen shot of my bank account.

Screen shot of bank account means little. It isn't even hard to fake. I could do it in a matter of minutes and it'd be as legitimate looking as a real statement. (online)

What do I need to prove? I'm not making any sort of outrageous claim. I'm a recreational AP. I've never claimed anything or even shared any stories. I do this because I actually do prefer to remain anonymous and I don't need creeps like Seedvalue who goes back and reads months of posts trying to find where one outs themself.

There is no goal post. I have no goal but I've always thought you're full of it. Whether counting 3 tables at once or now the broken arm thing. whatever.