Professional Sportsbetting

[redietz]

I wonder if you had this same view of beards back when you were hanging out with all these gangsters and billy waters? You realize it is logically the same thing but one is for live sports betting and one is for online?

To me it reads like an admission you're not smart enough to not be caught. It is smart to realize that and not go lose your $$$. Kudos.

But most importantly I wanted to point out something here. Redietz complains about it taking up too much mental time to pick specifically 5 games. If he understood EV he could apply it here to make a simple criteria and not fret over the 5. But EV is a concept he ridicules even though he admits to not being a "serious NFL bettor".

He also seems to be admitting contests are not for serious bettors and an amateur thing. (which incidentally is the field he is playing against that he so readily brags about)

So tell us why it would be acceptable morally and ethically for Billy Waters to use a beard but if APs bet under other accounts it is all at once some great immoral unethical thing? Please tell us. Not another <crickets> moment I hope.

All in all this post shows a decent amount of progress for Redietz. Keep it up.

First of all, the use of beards in Las Vegas was only recently made formally "not acceptable." So the bulk of Mr. Walters' wagering using beards was done long before there were any formal casino and Gaming Commission rules against it.

I'm certainly no expert but I don't believe this is accurate. From my understanding, it was illegal going back to at least the early 90's. Walters was using runners up until 2007 give or take 5 years?

Either way, I'm surprised you didn't mention this, but I believe there are various ways to legally incorporate as a business and or have people on a percentage, thus making sports bet running legal. He was probably set up as a sports business before he even considered the legalities of runners.

First of all, not the early 90's. Second, "legality" is a stretch of a term. When dealing with the Gaming Commission and casinos, there are regulations and then there are laws. There are (at least) three different levels of what the casinos try to sell as "legalities," but I defer to regnis and those better schooled in the continuum of policies, regulations, and legalities. A casino can have a policy that shuts you down. They can waive that policy whenever they like. They can have Commission-backed regulations that render what you do "illegal," but they can look the other way if they choose, with the usual "what the Commission doesn't know doesn't count, and since we own the Commission...." And then there are laws, which, given Las Vegas' split jurisdictions, create further complications if the jurisdictions don't feel like agreeing.

To put things in a "legal" context, there were people in the Black Book who had access to certain casinos in the 90's. Maybe they still do. I don't know because I'm not there. But I can vouch for the 90's. Not only that, a certain casino had nice convenient places for them to stay within walking distance.

Frankly, Axelwolf, I'm surprised you don't know this. Stunned is a better word.

The LLCs are recent (and have mostly failed miserably), so no -- the LLCs being legal do not overlap most of Mr. Walters' use of runners. Most runners were paid cash wages. Substantial cash wages. The LLCs are about a decade old.

To say Mr. Walters "used runners" is a bit of an oversimplification. With Mr. Walters, because of his net worth and influence, you never really know where Mr. Walters ends and the sports books begin. There isn't necessarily a clear delineation. Mr. Walters is a very smart man. Reminds me of J.R. Ewing.

Axelwolf, really, if you don't know this stuff off the top of your head, you are sadly underinformed.

[accountinquestion]

Came across an interesting line that’s a preview to an article Per Jack Andrews of Unabated about pick ‘em contests: “the biggest misnomer in these contests is they are a test of your handicapping ability. They’re not.”

Cue the condescending post from red man.

The interesting thing to me is so lets say you just use some methodical approach where you pick off the best perceived value but your method is shared by others. Wouldn't that mean your picks likely overlap the picks of others?

You don't want to split first place 10 ways or what have you. It seems like it might be similar to these draftkings contests. blackjack tournaments are not analogous because you choose the wager size which would not be the typical sports pick'em contest.

Curious if anyone knows any resources that could be useful. No blogs by busters, please. It is one of those niche things with such little money my interest was never piqued.

[accountinquestion]

I can vouch for the 90's. ...

Mr. Walters is a very smart man. Reminds me of J.R. Ewing.

Axelwolf, really, if you don't know this stuff off the top of your head, you are sadly underinformed.

Bro! Both J. R. Ewing and Magnum P.I. are BOTH from the 80s not the 90s.

[MaxPen]

First of all, the use of beards in Las Vegas was only recently made formally "not acceptable." So the bulk of Mr. Walters' wagering using beards was done long before there were any formal casino and Gaming Commission rules against it.

I'm certainly no expert but I don't believe this is accurate. From my understanding, it was illegal going back to at least the early 90's. Walters was using runners up until 2007 give or take 5 years?

Either way, I'm surprised you didn't mention this, but I believe there are various ways to legally incorporate as a business and or have people on a percentage, thus making sports bet running legal. He was probably set up as a sports business before he even considered the legalities of runners.

First of all, not the early 90's. Second, "legality" is a stretch of a term. When dealing with the Gaming Commission and casinos, there are regulations and then there are laws. There are (at least) three different levels of what the casinos try to sell as "legalities," but I defer to regnis and those better schooled in the continuum of policies, regulations, and legalities. A casino can have a policy that shuts you down. They can waive that policy whenever they like. They can have Commission-backed regulations that render what you do "illegal," but they can look the other way if they choose, with the usual "what the Commission doesn't know doesn't count, and since we own the Commission...." And then there are laws, which, given Las Vegas' split jurisdictions, create further complications if the jurisdictions don't feel like agreeing.

To put things in a "legal" context, there were people in the Black Book who had access to certain casinos in the 90's. Maybe they still do. I don't know because I'm not there. But I can vouch for the 90's. Not only that, a certain casino had nice convenient places for them to stay within walking distance.

Frankly, Axelwolf, I'm surprised you don't know this. Stunned is a better word.

The LLCs are recent (and have mostly failed miserably), so no -- the LLCs being legal do not overlap most of Mr. Walters' use of runners. Most runners were paid cash wages. Substantial cash wages. The LLCs are about a decade old.

To say Mr. Walters "used runners" is a bit of an oversimplification. With Mr. Walters, because of his net worth and influence, you never really know where Mr. Walters ends and the sports books begin. There isn't necessarily a clear delineation. Mr. Walters is a very smart man. Reminds me of J.R. Ewing.

Axelwolf, really, if you don't know this stuff off the top of your head, you are sadly underinformed.

If all you get for knowing any of this stuff is living in a shack in bumfuck Tennessee with an unpaid tax bill I will pass.....RIP

[Gottlob1]

Gamblers, whichever, and as a whole, are sleazy. They constantly "shit" on each other, and themselves. Just look at the thus forums. Even the passive aggressive stuff at the Wizard's. A "contest of contests" (in each other's head), with nothing to truly build on. Ha.

The characteristics you describe are commonly found across social media, not just related to gambling.

The anonymity and freedom from repercussions allows us to shed civility for aggression.

It's in our nature, eh?

At least with social media, people tend to know each other, to begin, can get something out of it, and, maybe, not so much about shoptalk. Here it amounts to a bunch of retards, conspiracy theorists, and doomsdayers, spouting gratuitous insults instead of support their own, for the most part, outrageous gambling claims. Certainly, no objective independent evidence. It's all anecdotal, hearsay, and innuendo. Most gamblers don't even (otherwise) admit to what they do, let alone have it put in their obituaries.

[AxelWolf]

First of all, the use of beards in Las Vegas was only recently made formally "not acceptable." So the bulk of Mr. Walters' wagering using beards was done long before there were any formal casino and Gaming Commission rules against it.

I'm certainly no expert but I don't believe this is accurate. From my understanding, it was illegal going back to at least the early 90's. Walters was using runners up until 2007 give or take 5 years?

Either way, I'm surprised you didn't mention this, but I believe there are various ways to legally incorporate as a business and or have people on a percentage, thus making sports bet running legal. He was probably set up as a sports business before he even considered the legalities of runners.

First of all, not the early 90's. Second, "legality" is a stretch of a term. When dealing with the Gaming Commission and casinos, there are regulations and then there are laws. There are (at least) three different levels of what the casinos try to sell as "legalities," but I defer to regnis and those better schooled in the continuum of policies, regulations, and legalities. A casino can have a policy that shuts you down. They can waive that policy whenever they like. They can have Commission-backed regulations that render what you do "illegal," but they can look the other way if they choose, with the usual "what the Commission doesn't know doesn't count, and since we own the Commission...." And then there are laws, which, given Las Vegas' split jurisdictions, create further complications if the jurisdictions don't feel like agreeing.

To put things in a "legal" context, there were people in the Black Book who had access to certain casinos in the 90's. Maybe they still do. I don't know because I'm not there. But I can vouch for the 90's. Not only that, a certain casino had nice convenient places for them to stay within walking distance.

Frankly, Axelwolf, I'm surprised you don't know this. Stunned is a better word.

The LLCs are recent (and have mostly failed miserably), so no -- the LLCs being legal do not overlap most of Mr. Walters' use of runners. Most runners were paid cash wages. Substantial cash wages. The LLCs are about a decade old.

To say Mr. Walters "used runners" is a bit of an oversimplification. With Mr. Walters, because of his net worth and influence, you never really know where Mr. Walters ends and the sports books begin. There isn't necessarily a clear delineation. Mr. Walters is a very smart man. Reminds me of J.R. Ewing.

Axelwolf, really, if you don't know this stuff off the top of your head, you are sadly underinformed.

First off, I was not even old enough to gamble in part of the 90's. When I started gambling for a living, I quickly learned a fair amount, some firsthand having to deal with NGC, the police, and attorneys multiple times in a short period of time. I absolutely know there's a big difference between casino rules and actual laws.



Obviously, different states have different laws. I'm talking about Nevada. I just want to be clear Are you saying that it wasn't illegal to use or be a runner in the 90's? I do not know for certain, I only know what I believe to be the case.

2nd question. Prior to. let's say 2007. Are you claiming prior to Walters didn't have something like an LCC or business model set in place that could've circumvented possible laws regarding running? If so, I'll have to disagree with that. I don't have time to research now but I'm certain I can find something on the subject.

[AxelWolf]

Related to Billy Walters.... "armed with records detailing how the gambling operation was set up legitimately through a limited liability corporation. The move surprised and impressed authorities, as did the fact that a former Vegas detective was overseeing the group's security arm. "They had one of the biggest law firms in the city set up their entire corporation and their books," says Brian Rutledge, Clark County's chief deputy district attorney. "It was scrupulously set up to be in compliance with all the gaming regulations. They were better set up legally than your average business, let's put it that way."

https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/st...versial-bettor

[AxelWolf]

--------

[accountinquestion]

--------

give me a b?
yes 1 b
give me a l?
yes 2 l's
give me a t?
yes 1 t

b-ll---t

hmmm

give me a d?
bzzzt

oh well I give up.

The best thing about Redietz is this condescension he insists on while simultaneously being relatively clueless about the subject. I have to wonder how this guy is in real life. He seems completely insufferable on this forum. It is near impossible for him to be like this in real life.

I'm not even sure why he posts on here and he doesn't seem to have a positive time. I guess he gets his name out there?

Hasn't he had a camera crew following him around for a few years now?

Where's the beef?

[mickeycrimm]

When a beard gets backed off they are shit out of luck but Mr. Walters just goes and finds another beard.

[accountinquestion]

Redietz is off cricket farming it appears.

[AxelWolf]

So far I have 4,000 down on the first week using Halfsmokes all dog's first 2 weeks of the NFL season method. I'm using all 100% bonuses(that's my average 50% - 150%) I ran out of funds with bonuses on my offshore accounts due to some larger hedge bets I have been making in B&M Casinos. I have good reasons to hedge.

I'll probably jam some more money in with bonuses and toss it at the method above. I don't want to go balls to the wall slamming this big with bonuses, because bonuses come with wagering requirements. In order to maximize the value you need to find value bets and that's time-consuming. There's value regardless doing it half-assed, however, I feel guilty giving up so much value doing it that way. It just doesn't make sense to get $200-$400 in value on something that has $1,000-$2,000 in value.

[AxelWolf]

When a beard gets backed off they are shit out of luck but Mr. Walters just goes and finds another beard.

I have been offered to run for bigger sports bettors, but it's really not worthwhile IMO. I have "ran" but, I had action so that's not the same. I have had people place bets for me on Super Bowl props for years.

[Half Smoke]

.

from the article_____________it ain't easy________________52.4% ats winners will about break you even - (NFL)


"For context, among the 385 so-called experts tracked by Pickwatch last season, only 34 were correct on better than 52 percent of their against-the-spread recommendations picking all the games last season."


I guess they woulda done better on their best bets__________I dunno__________I would bet that way less than half showed a profit


https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...t-bets-week-1/

[redietz]

Of course I'm referring to Las Vegas and Nevada.

Policies can be lifted for whomever a casino wants.
Regulations can be avoided for whomever a casino wants, unless leaked by an employee playing hall monitor, in which case the employee had best seek employment out of state.
Laws can be local as opposed to state, in which case Las Vegas has split jurisdictions, so one jurisdiction could play/leverage the other.

Do I believe MDawg won 50 out of 52 baccarat sessions? Well, no I don't. But one reason I don't hassle MDawg about his photos of chips or tales of cashing this and that is because if MDawg plays at the reported levels, which seems pretty certain, then whatever you quote as "policies" or "regulations" can and will be circumvented. If MDawg requested someone do something that isn't SOP, I'm sure casinos would bend over backwards to, as Jean-Luc Picard says, "make it so."

I have a hard time buying that "APs" operate in Las Vegas for decades and don't absolutely know these things.

I was challenged by some VCT idiots on a "policies" issue a few years back when I reported that I was paid for a large sports book futures win in "checks." By "checks" I was referring to chips, which management refers to as "checks" on many occasions. People on this board, who should know better, claimed it wasn't "policy" or "regulation" and one maroon couldn't fathom that chips were referred to as "checks." So I emailed Jimmy Vacarro out at South Point, and he was gracious enough to explain some "policies" in an email response, which I shared here.

Some folks who declare they know what they are talking about regarding sports here -- do not have any blessed clue about much of anything.

[accountinquestion]

lol calling chips checks. I have heard that but don't think it is an American thing. Curious how many managers actually call chips checks. All it does is serve to create a nice layer of confusion. Not everyone is Redietz looking to impress people with nonsense.

It is a solid point to make that casinos can and do circumvent regulations/policies/laws for big whales.

[Gottlob1]

Not everyone is a boor like me looking to frame every thing in terms of my own limited experience. I'm not just another guy over there, oh, no.

The terms “Chips” and “Cheques” are both referring to a small round clay disc. The term “Chip” is used when that clay disc has no monetary value. For example, if you are at a friend’s poker night and everyone is just playing for fun, then those discs that you are using would be referred to as “Chips” because you are never going to exchange them for cash.

https://www.vegas-aces.com/faq/cheques-vs-chips/

Casino checks are used as actual currency in the casino (just like a paper check or e-check is worth cash). A chip is a no-value instrument, such as tournament or roulette chips. Checks are used in poker cash games, but chips are used in poker tournaments.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threa...3%A8que.77673/

Casino tokens (also known as casino or gaming chips, checks, cheques or poker chips) are small discs used in terms of currency in casinos. Colored metal, injection-molded plastic or compression molded clay tokens of various denominations are used primarily in table games, as opposed to metal token coins, used primarily in slot machines. Casino tokens are also widely used as play money in casual or tournament games.

Some casinos also use rectangular gaming plaques for high-stakes table games ($25,000 and above). Plaques differ from chips in that they are larger, usually rectangular in shape and contain serial numbers.

There seem to be as many explanations about the difference as there are explainers. But the best description we've seen goes as follows.

The difference between a casino cheque and a chip is that the "cheque" has a monetary value, while the "chip" doesn't. For example, when you sit down at a blackjack table and give the dealer $100 in cash, he reaches into his rack and hands you 20 red cheques -- a straight exchange of money for little round disks worth the same number of dollars.

An example of chips, meanwhile, is the colored "wheel chip" at roulette. If you take one of these white, brown, gray, yellow, or blue chips to the cashier's cage, you can't cash them. The value of wheel chips is determined at the table when they're bought. A white chip might be worth $1 today and $100 tomorrow.

"Tokens" are another wrinkle on casino currency. Tokens are generally used in slot machines, although some are used at blackjack tables to pay off uneven bets.

In addition to having specific dimensions, the name of the casino, the monetary value, and the manufacturer's name or logo must all be visible on the cheque. The differing denominations must be differentiated in design in such a manner as to be discernible by the eye in the sky. Baccarat cheques must have a different diameter than those for other casino games, and the same holds true for any chips issued by the sports book.

Similar requirements are in place for tokens, although these are to denote denomination, right down to the number of serrations on the edge. Even their metallic composition is mandated by statute. Now that the vast majority of casinos have gone to cashless slot machines, tokens are largely an anachronism, of more value to collectors than players.

Casino cheques, by contrast, are manufactured from a compound that includes sand, chalk, even the kind of clay you put in your cat's litter box. The inserts around the edge are either manually or mechanically inserted, then baked at 300 degrees. A century after clay-based cheques became standard casino equipment, in the 1980s, ceramic chips were introduced. These had the advantage that the name of the casino, the denomination, and the manufacturer's logo could be printed across the entire chip, not just in the inlaid sections.

The newest wrinkle in cheque manufacturing is the embedding of radio-frequency-identification (RFID) tags. Wynn Las Vegas was the first casino to employ RFID chips, in 2005.

Not only does this enable the house to monitor the movement of cheques across the casino floor, it can remotely deactivate the RFID tag, rendering the cheques non-negotiable: Bellagio used the latter technique to foil a chip scam after a helmeted gunman had robbed the casino floor of $1.5 million worth of cheques. (To be extra careful, Bellagio retired the chips in use on the floor and replaced them with a "secondary set" -- a duplicate but distinct backup set that always exists for use in such scenarios.)

RFID chips are less costly than you might expect, averaging around $2.50 apiece to make, compared to around $1.50 to make a non-RFID cheque.

Using RFID cheques, the casino can determine how much you buy in for and where you play it off, and use that information to keep you in the game longer with well-timed drinks and services catered to your activity. If you're playing with high-denomination cheques, it's almost guaranteed that the casino knows what you're up to.

https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/faq-gambling-cheques/

Well, without knowing the nuances, and history, of thus terms, one can't begin to properly, or fully, appreciate a discussion about them.

It is a solid point to make that casinos can and do circumvent regulations/policies/laws for big whales.

What a fucking loudmouth. The only rule that matters is that "the house always wins", in whichever ways you, nay the idiot without an iq, might want to count.

[accountinquestion]

Casino checks are used as actual currency in the casino (just like a paper check or e-check is worth cash). A chip is a no-value instrument, such as tournament or roulette chips. Checks are used in poker cash games, but chips are used in poker tournaments.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threa...3%A8que.77673/

Casino tokens (also known as casino or gaming chips, checks, cheques or poker chips) are small discs used in terms of currency in casinos. Colored metal, injection-molded plastic or compression molded clay tokens of various denominations are used primarily in table games, as opposed to metal token coins, used primarily in slot machines. Casino tokens are also widely used as play money in casual or tournament games.

Some casinos also use rectangular gaming plaques for high-stakes table games ($25,000 and above). Plaques differ from chips in that they are larger, usually rectangular in shape and contain serial numbers.

There seem to be as many explanations about the difference as there are explainers. But the best description we've seen goes as follows.

The difference between a casino cheque and a chip is that the "cheque" has a monetary value, while the "chip" doesn't. For example, when you sit down at a blackjack table and give the dealer $100 in cash, he reaches into his rack and hands you 20 red cheques -- a straight exchange of money for little round disks worth the same number of dollars.

An example of chips, meanwhile, is the colored "wheel chip" at roulette. If you take one of these white, brown, gray, yellow, or blue chips to the cashier's cage, you can't cash them. The value of wheel chips is determined at the table when they're bought. A white chip might be worth $1 today and $100 tomorrow.

"Tokens" are another wrinkle on casino currency. Tokens are generally used in slot machines, although some are used at blackjack tables to pay off uneven bets.

In addition to having specific dimensions, the name of the casino, the monetary value, and the manufacturer's name or logo must all be visible on the cheque. The differing denominations must be differentiated in design in such a manner as to be discernible by the eye in the sky. Baccarat cheques must have a different diameter than those for other casino games, and the same holds true for any chips issued by the sports book.

Similar requirements are in place for tokens, although these are to denote denomination, right down to the number of serrations on the edge. Even their metallic composition is mandated by statute. Now that the vast majority of casinos have gone to cashless slot machines, tokens are largely an anachronism, of more value to collectors than players.

Casino cheques, by contrast, are manufactured from a compound that includes sand, chalk, even the kind of clay you put in your cat's litter box. The inserts around the edge are either manually or mechanically inserted, then baked at 300 degrees. A century after clay-based cheques became standard casino equipment, in the 1980s, ceramic chips were introduced. These had the advantage that the name of the casino, the denomination, and the manufacturer's logo could be printed across the entire chip, not just in the inlaid sections.

The newest wrinkle in cheque manufacturing is the embedding of radio-frequency-identification (RFID) tags. Wynn Las Vegas was the first casino to employ RFID chips, in 2005.

Not only does this enable the house to monitor the movement of cheques across the casino floor, it can remotely deactivate the RFID tag, rendering the cheques non-negotiable: Bellagio used the latter technique to foil a chip scam after a helmeted gunman had robbed the casino floor of $1.5 million worth of cheques. (To be extra careful, Bellagio retired the chips in use on the floor and replaced them with a "secondary set" -- a duplicate but distinct backup set that always exists for use in such scenarios.)

RFID chips are less costly than you might expect, averaging around $2.50 apiece to make, compared to around $1.50 to make a non-RFID cheque.

Using RFID cheques, the casino can determine how much you buy in for and where you play it off, and use that information to keep you in the game longer with well-timed drinks and services catered to your activity. If you're playing with high-denomination cheques, it's almost guaranteed that the casino knows what you're up to.

https://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/faq-gambling-cheques/

Well, without knowing the nuances, and history, of thus terms, one can't begin to properly, or fully, appreciate a discussion about them.

It is a solid point to make that casinos can and do circumvent regulations/policies/laws for big whales.

What a fucking loudmouth. The only rule that matters is that "the house always wins", in whichever ways you, nay the idiot without an iq, might want to count.

Bill, I understand you have spent much of your time not locked up in a mental institution but being around casinos a large portion of my life I can tell you they do not use the word "cheques" with any regularity. Nor do they call cash chips cheques and save "chips" for tournament/free bets chips. Great you googled up something and are now an expert on the history even though reality is different.

Why do you even post on gambling forums?

Perhaps some people in management use cheques to reference chips.. perhaps. The history has nothing to do with it and I knew enough that I would have spelled it as cheque at least but that isn't even relevant. It is just Redietz showing his insecurity trying to one-up everyone in a comical way.

It is just ludicrous Redietz is using that as a point to demonstrate how knowledgeable he is.

If you want me to go easy on Redietz I can. Just give me the word and I'll lay off him a bit although I still want to know where Stanford recommends Ivermectin.

[jbjb]

"Cheque change $200"

[mickeycrimm]

I have no idea what you're talking about here. Nothing wrong with picking up the bonus. It's not a "shit-ton" unless you're using multiple names and family members and all that, and frankly -- if an offshore discovers you're doing that -- they will just keep your money and thumb their nose at you. So I don't do any of that multiple nonsense.

I surprised, no actually stunned, that you don't know how to pull it off. How long did you say you've been betting sports?