Trip Summary

[coach belly]

So yeah it IS what I have been doing.

Maintaining your anonymity at all costs?

if you know my real name you will find multiple entries

[kewlJ]

Mate, are you retarded or something? For real!

I just told you and have many times before: YOU don't know my real name and identity. No one on this forum does. I have taken a lot of grief for that, but it has served me well.

There are one or two players that I associate with here in Vegas that do know me, but none are regulars on this kind of a (troll) forum. I know one occasionally reads, but have never seen him post.

[MisterV]

OK, but unlike you, Robert and the Hound don't appear to be advantage players.

By that I mean their stories of casino conquest do not seem to involve the use of techniques which might result in them being included.

Certainly Robert's VP methods are not AP, and the Hound seems at best to be lucky...if he's anything at all.

So I am not really surprised that neither is blacklisted for AP as neither is an AP, at least not as I understand the term.

[redietz]

[QUOTE=smurgerburger;178149]

And those who really, really can't... teach and get paid a third as much. Like Shackleford (look up "adjunct"). LOL.

But Shack IS an excellent teacher. Take a look at his website. I see his banning you from WoV still stings like a bitch.

Ah, I didn't realize redietz had been banned from WoV. I was honestly curious about his animus toward Shackleford.

What was the reason for the ban? Do they not allow self-promotion?


LOL. I wrote some semi-comedic acerbic versions of MDawg's storylines, for which one of the unpaid louts, who happened to live in Knoxville, suspended me. It was the dude who publicly posts that he lusts after quadriplegics. I then told him we'd be getting together sometime soon, since he lived down the road. Shackleford then banned me. I have a particular gripe with that monitor since my mother, aunt, and uncle all had MS and were quadriplegics for more than a decade. If you want the full run down, post something under freddy's thread at GamblingForums. Freddy keeps posting the monitor's exact words regarding quadriplegics. I'm sure it's in that thread several times.

I'm sorry if not being an anonymous unverifiable wannabe qualifies as "self-promotion." Such is life in the real world.

If you guys don't know something, or don't bother to read, why do you type for no reason?

And this self-promotion crap -- does anybody promote themselves as a gambling expert (without any evidence of having won lifetime) more than Shack? He dabbles in this, dabbles in that, really has no clue about that which I have a clue, which leads me, of course, to wonder if he wins at anything these days. I mean, it's fine to be a gambling expert who has no real specific expertise or track record. That's fine.

I just think it's wild that people assume he actually wins at something with zero corroboration. His recommendations to use "parlay calculators" for sports betting were the most dumb-ass thing I have ever seen. LOL. He never even addressed the obvious reason it's a bad idea. In recent years, he appears to have backed off this schtick, especially since offshores have listened to him (again -- LOL) and are more than happy to furnish parlay calculators for bettors to use. Gee, I wonder why.

[kewlJ]

OK, but unlike you, Robert and the Hound don't appear to be advantage players.

Your fellow attorney friend, initially claimed he wasn't. Then like everything else his story changed. He is all over the place.

Singer started out attempting to play with an advantage failed and then resorted to telling us he wins by special plays and hocus pocus.

But here's the thing. The databases have never distinguished between that. If a player is really winning long-term, defying the math and odds, as these two claim, they will be on the radar of these companies and they will find out information and include that in the databases. They just don't distinguish. Griffin, used to label legit advantage players doing nothing wrong as cheats. THAT is where they got into trouble. So you won't see any kind of "label" like that.

And this is precisely why when a player is backed off or barred or trespassed, if you ask for what? The casino will never say card counting or we think you are card counting. If they give an answer at all it will be management decision, or your game is just too good for us. Something very vague. They will not accuse you of anything like card counting or advantage play.

But again, my point is that any player claiming what these guys claim, would be on the radar and have some information about them in the databases. EVEN if it turned out they were simply the luckiest player on the face of the earth, with rabbit's feet in their pockets and 4 leaf clovers around their necks. And guess what, no mention of our two "friends". But I bet if I dug, I could find info on several of the real AP's here, including Axelwolf, Maxpen, Mickeycrimm and others (don't be offended if I didn't name you). Mickeycrimm would be an interesting one. He kind of skirts the system, playing many kind of out of the way places for lower limits and doesn't play much if any table games that I am aware of. So not sure exactly what I would find, if anything on him. Might even be something dating back years, as that is another issue with the databases. They have an agenda to sell information, so they aren't deleting or removing anything.

[MisterV]

Thanks for the response, KJ: one follow up question if you please.

Assume a non-AP is included for winning more often than is the norm: does them being listed mean they are barred, or simply a "heads up, keep and eye on these birds, we don't know how they're doing it?"

[redietz]

Again, I was banned for writing Mad Magazine type takeoffs of MDawg's adventures. My sarcasm was not appreciated. I said clearly that I thought Shackleford was doing every reader a disservice by allowing MDawg to post these tales without some commentary by Shackleford.

So the quadriplegic-loving dude suspended me, I said I'd look him up, and that gave Shackleford an excuse to ban me. I think what Shackleford allowed vis-a-vis MDawg was the equivalent of USA Today allowing sports service ads claiming 85-95% ATS winners. There's no excuse for it. You are misleading the public. Not everybody is an experienced gambler. Somebody in Shackleford's position has a responsibility. At least that's the way I've always conducted myself.

[kewlJ]

As for Shackleford: There are people, members of his forum, that you can tell instantaneously that he doesn't like. He may put up with them for a while, while he looks for a reason to get rid of them. Redietz is among that club. So was BillRyan. So was even coach belly. I think when he banned CB, shackleford actually stated something about wanting to get rid of him for a quite a while.

I have no idea what would trigger such a first opinion non like of someone. But I believe one such thing is he doesn't like other real players and AP's that undermine him and know how things work. he really wants to be the go to guy that is the expert that every one looks to. He puts up with it for a few that he considers friends, but he really wants to be the top fiddle guy, IMO.

[redietz]

Thanks for the response, KJ: one follow up question if you please.

Assume a non-AP is included for winning more often than is the norm: does them being listed mean they are barred, or simply a "heads up, keep and eye on these birds, we don't know how they're doing it?"

MrV, not everything in life has been cut and dried. I know, with more than 99% certainty, that people in the black book were able to enter the Mirage through various simple stratagems. I don't mind saying that now because the Mirage is not long for this world.

[smurgerburger]

Redietz - Nobody is interested in how much money WoV makes or has made at gambling. That is not the purpose of his work.

[accountinquestion]

Again, I was banned for writing Mad Magazine type takeoffs of MDawg's adventures. My sarcasm was not appreciated. I said clearly that I thought Shackleford was doing every reader a disservice by allowing MDawg to post these tales without some commentary by Shackleford.

So the quadriplegic-loving dude suspended me, I said I'd look him up, and that gave Shackleford an excuse to ban me. I think what Shackleford allowed vis-a-vis MDawg was the equivalent of USA Today allowing sports service ads claiming 85-95% ATS winners. There's no excuse for it. You are misleading the public. Not everybody is an experienced gambler. Somebody in Shackleford's position has a responsibility. At least that's the way I've always conducted myself.

Oh what a wicked web we weave.

Seriously though this is pretty funny as far as reasons go. Good grief. I'm glad I never got involved posting there. I must have sensed their lack of fun which is likely why I started posting here.

This place has the right mix of sharps, characters, and fun loving anti-social types. Maybe this forum would be a lot better if not for this but I have a strong feeling it would be dead.

[kewlJ]

Thanks for the response, KJ: one follow up question if you please.

Assume a non-AP is included for winning more often than is the norm: does them being listed mean they are barred, or simply a "heads up, keep and eye on these birds, we don't know how they're doing it?"

I can't say for sure but I would think the second. It would be something for them to take a look at and keep an eye on. If you are an AP, trying to keep a low profile, that is just the last thing you want. And if you have multiple entries just suggesting something might be up....forget about it.

Really I shouldn't say "forget about it". There are things you can do to lessen the blow and survive. And I have talked about them. One is to just take a break, so that any new entry kind of falls off the from page (screen in Today's world). In the pre computer time, that would be like taking the page with your information and moving it to the back of the binder. Anyone looking is only looking at the first few pages (or screens now) of newer entries.

So when you think or confirm a new entry, you take a break, especially from the places that you know utilize the databases. How long a break? that depends. You are basically waiting for other fellow AP's to screw up and get new entries so yours will fall back. May take a few weeks, may take a few months. Depends on the severity and if there are pictures and if so, how clear.

[smurgerburger]

They don't database people for winning. The whole premise is wrong.

[kewlJ]

Redietz - Nobody is interested in how much money WoV makes or has made at gambling. That is not the purpose of his work.

I am !!! In part because I am nosy, but in part I would love to know what kind of money every AP makes, as a real number would sort of verify things for me. There are guys that are pretty good talkers, maybe know the math, but I suspect play less and lower limits than they claim.

I am not saying Shackleford is that. I think he has made some decent money gambling, but my gut says, not what a man of his ability should have. And he started the websites which were very useful to many, many players at all levels (WoO more that WoV). And then he got really lucky and sold those websites for way more than they were worth to an online company that just had money to burn. I don't fault him for that, but let's be real. he got lucky. That wasn't his plan.

Once he sold the websites, he didn't have to make a ton of money gambling. Just some (supplemental) when something came along that he wants to do. What I would really be interested in, is just what he made gambling wise in that time leading up to the sale, when he wasn't making money from the website. His wife worked and I am sure he made some money APing different things, just not sure if it was what he should/could have made with his ability.

But I am genuinely glad it all worked out for him. equally glad he cut off that ponytail that made him look like a predator.

[smurgerburger]

You might as well wonder how much money Eliot Jacobs has made gambling.

[kewlJ]

They don't database people for winning. The whole premise is wrong.

It's NOT wrong.

they don't database players that legitimately win, by hitting a jackpot, or even something like table play for a short period which can be weeks of daily play.

It is long-term winning that defies the math, like Mdawg claims (if his story was true), or Singer claims with his multiple big hit stories. This is going to draw attention. That is precisely why real long-term winning players do things like play unrated, so records aren't as easy to obtain, or even do things like ratholing chips (which has it's risks).

Do you think I or any real player would not like to play rated and get comps on top of what we win? Come on man.

I know (or at least believe) you are a real and successful AP. But you don't seem to know some of the battles that table game AP's fight on almost a daily basis (for a grinder type player). Maybe you don't play a lot of table stuff anymore, or maybe you never did. I have no idea. (poker doesn't count as you are not playing against the casino). With Table game advantage play, there is a whole extra level of people you are dealing with, right there in the pit, 5 feet from where you play. 2 feet if you count the dealer and you should, because half of them report what they see. Half just don't care.

Table game advantage play, particularly card counting just doesn't happen by accident. You have to work at it, and make it your business to know and learn certain things to achieve some longevity. I have tried to share some of that, some (not everything) of how I go about that. But you people always seem to want to make it about something else. Pissing contests, or troll fests about things totally unrelated in any way.

[kewlJ]

You might as well wonder how much money Eliot Jacobs has made gambling.

Don't know what Eliot Jacobs made, but I have a feel for what Eliot Jacobson made, only in that it wasn't what he had the potential for. I talked to players that knew him and saw him play and after being pretty hard on him calling him a "traitor", for working for/with the casinos, I had a pretty good relationship with him and spoke to him many times privately via email. Let so after he retired.

But he is a perfect example of someone that certainly knew the math, but maybe didn't realize his gambling potential. He sort of busted out as a card counter, or being polite, maybe it just wasn't for him. I am told he never got used to putting out the larger bets when required. That is something that falls many card counters, especially when you are playing underfunded (not saying Eliot was) or when you encounter a prolonged negative run. You have to keep firing when the count calls for it and not everyone has that make up.

So yeah, I would love to know what he made on both sides of the tables. That is just me.

Maybe it goes something like this: Those that can win at gambling...win at gambling. Those that can't, do consultation work for/with the casinos.

[smurgerburger]

They do not database for winning. There is a small number of offenses for which they will accept reports. Winning is not one of them.

Eliot Jacobson and I presume WoV have not made a lot of money gambling. They are appreciated for their very useful public strategy guides and tools by people who do use them to make money.

[kewlJ]

The databases are full of players that have done nothing wrong. No other offense except winning.

They and you can wordsmith all you want. That is fact.

An AP looking to achieve some measure of longevity needs to work at staying out of the databases. But ultimately most will find themselves in it at some point. That is just occupational hazard.

When someone making some grand claims over the length of time these two have and doesn't make there way to the databases, something doesn't jive.

And you know it.

[coach belly]

YOU don't know my real name and identity. No one on this forum does. There are one or two players that I associate with here in Vegas that do know me

I don't know if any members of this forum know your real name, and neither do you.

But 3 people can keep a secret if 2 of them are dead, so there's that.

If your real name appears several times in the various databases you pointed to, then anyone with access to those databases can view your real name several times, and likely figure out, by process of elimination, which name is yours.