Keystone banned

[Dan Druff]

kewlJ:

Yes, we discussed my situation. You mentioned having LPR, and believed I had it.

However, I still don't believe I have LPR. This is for a few reasons:

1) Subsequent examinations of my throat did not find any significant irritation consistent with LPR,

2) I did a "PepTest" by mail, where I spit into a vial, send it to the UK, and they analyze it for an enzyme consistent with LPR. It came back negative.

3) At the time, I did not have any known reflux issues in general. I could eat/drink something very acidic, lie down, and not have any heartburn. This is also true for everyone in my immediate family.

4) I went to have a special instrument used on my throat, which takes a video. It goes in through your nose, and produces a clear picture. There's another version of this which goes through your throat, and you gag horribly, but I drove the extra 50 miles for the nose-insertion machine, as it's far more modern and there's no gagging or any significant discomfort. This study did not produce any symptoms of LPR.

The only sign of anything reflux-related was that, about once every year on average, I would wake up with a reflux event where I couldn't breathe. Within 30 seconds, after standing up and gasping for air, I could breathe again. This was scary, and left my throat burning, but ultimately harmless. I first had this in Vegas in 2008, and it freaked me out. I did notice that it was far more common to occur when visiting Vegas (the last one as recently as 2024) than at home in LA. However, again, this doesn't occur often, even when I'm in Vegas.

Anyway, I determined that this lump in my throat feeling is primarily from dryness, and somewhat from just general irritation from postnasal drip.

That's why using the dry mouth rinse made such a dramatic difference. Without it, I would go into choking mode whenever I would lay down, even at an incline. With the rinse, I could easily fall asleep. This was discovered by accident. I was trying the rinse on a night because my girlfriend had bought it for me, and my mouth felt particularly dry on that evening. I woke up in the morning and said, "I don't know if this is significant, but I somehow didn't choke at all and fell right asleep!" That was the first step in getting better.

The second step was having enough time off the PPI meds.

The third step was bringing the caffeine back.

The fourth step was taking low dose Xanax once every 96 hours, in order to "remind" my brain what it's like to feel normal. I feel like this is an underrated strategy in mental health. Some mental health issues are a vicious cycle. Your brain gets used to feeling a certain way under certain circumstances, and it's difficult or impossible to override with logic. Xanax somewhat breaks this cycle, as it somewhat suppresses the fight-or-flight mechanism, and generally slows your thought processes. The more your brain is used to feeling normal, the more it will end up being normal.

This entire process, while unorthodox, was successful. I was seeing a psychiatrist at the time, who admitted he had never heard of this process before, but said it made sense in theory, so he didn't mind my trying it to see if it worked.

Aside from the throat thing, my first real breakthrough was one night in mid-October 2018. I was walking my dog Otis (RIP) at 2am, and watching a Steven Crowder video on YouTube just to keep my mind occupied. At the time, I had both severe anxiety and severe depression, and the depression also caused something called anhedonia, which is the complete inability to feel any positive emotions. You don't feel joy about anything, nor do you feel love, nor do you feel excitement, nor can you enjoy good food or good music. Negative emotions still come through, but positive ones are completely muted. During this walk, I laughed at a joke Crowder made. This was my first laughter in 2 months, and seconds later, I knew it was a great sign. About a minute later, I laughed at another joke made by one of Crowder's co-hosts. As dumb as this sounds, it was one of the best moments of my life. I said out loud to my dog, "Did you hear that, Otis? I laughed! I actually laughed! I think I'm finally starting to come back."

Within a few days, the entire depression was gone. The anxiety took another month to dissipate, and got to about 85% better. I never got 100% back.

[kewlJ]

I have had the 24 hour enzyme monitoring tests, both throat and nose. Neither is all that pleasant. My tests usually come back saying very moderate enzyme detection when I KNOW from symptoms it is much worse than that, so I don't put all that much stock into them. I know how I feel and that is all I care about, not some doctor telling me the tests only showed moderate issues. One of my doctors even said, they aren't that conclusive with some people.

One misconception that you mentioned is that eating acidy foods, or drink increases acid reflux. Different triggers for different people, but generally acidy foods are not one of them, even though people believe that.

Continued good luck in this situation. Hope you have conquered it for good or at the very least learn to control some of these issues.

It is kind of funny that you mentioned the issues when visiting Vegas. When my LPR first started, I thought it was more of a breathing/asthma type thing because of the symptoms (I don't have asthma). I thought my problem might be something brought on or worsened by the dry desert air and the dust in the air when the wind blows here in Vegas. (air quality). Took me a while and multiple trips to the doctor before I began to figure it out. I was able to figure it out even before the doctor did. I try to be my own health advocate. Not replace doctors, but learn everything I can about issue I may have and what to do about them. Nobody....no doctor is going to care about you like you care about yourself.

I don't have issues with anxiety or depression like you do. I am sorry to hear that. But when you are really going through a bad period with LPR, coughing and clearing your throat every 10 second and can never get it clear, sensation of choking and even difficulty breathing and I think it is just a sensation not really difficulty breathing, but certainly is anyone did have issues with aniety that would bring it out.

[kewlJ]

BTW, a lot of doctors don't like it when you read online about possible medical situation and attempt to self-diagnose. I have a doctor that not only doesn't mind that, but encourages his patients to be proactive. he is every aware I try to learn what I can about any situation. At times he will even ask, "what do you think it might be?" And when I say what I am thinking he will say "no it can't be that" or else, "yeah it could be that...lets try this...."

[kewlJ]

Additionally, waking up with the burning of the throat is a definite sign of LPR. It means the reflux has made it through both valves and into your throat. If this occurs regularly it can lead to increase risk of throat cancer. I only have that happen occasionally now, since I have learned to control my LPR, but when it does I usually have not only throat burning and pain/discomfort, but also an earache on which ever side I was sleeping on. This is caused by the acid not only making it up to the throat during the night but then continuing up the little tube from throat to ear causing an earache. these sensitive areas just are not designed to handle that acid enzyme.

Before I learned to control it, my doctor recommended a product called Gaviscon Advance. It is a liquid, you take it at bedtime and it works by forming a barrier that sit on top of whatever is in your stomach that makes it difficult for the acid to get through. Sounds far-fetched but it actually helps.

It is not cheap and it is also kind of tricky because there are 3 different companies that make Gavison Advance. One in the US, one in Canada and one in the UK. They all have different amounts of the key ingredient Alginate (made from seaweed). Th US version the smallest amount or weakest Uk the highest amount or strongest and Canada somewhere in between. So if anyone decides to give that a try, be sure to order from the UK company (I think the company is Rickets Becket or something like that) not the U.S company.

[kewlJ]

One misconception that you mentioned is that eating acidy foods, or drink increases acid reflux. Different triggers for different people, but generally acidy foods are not one of them, even though people believe that.

I need to correct this. I should have said eating acidy foods doesn't increase LPR type reflux. It can increase general heartburn type acid reflux.

[Dan Druff]

Additionally, waking up with the burning of the throat is a definite sign of LPR. It means the reflux has made it through both valves and into your throat. If this occurs regularly it can lead to increase risk of throat cancer. I only have that happen occasionally now, since I have learned to control my LPR, but when it does I usually have not only throat burning and pain/discomfort, but also an earache on which ever side I was sleeping on. This is caused by the acid not only making it up to the throat during the night but then continuing up the little tube from throat to ear causing an earache. these sensitive areas just are not designed to handle that acid enzyme.

Before I learned to control it, my doctor recommended a product called Gaviscon Advance. It is a liquid, you take it at bedtime and it works by forming a barrier that sit on top of whatever is in your stomach that makes it difficult for the acid to get through. Sounds far-fetched but it actually helps.

It is not cheap and it is also kind of tricky because there are 3 different companies that make Gavison Advance. One in the US, one in Canada and one in the UK. They all have different amounts of the key ingredient Alginate (made from seaweed). Th US version the smallest amount or weakest Uk the highest amount or strongest and Canada somewhere in between. So if anyone decides to give that a try, be sure to order from the UK company (I think the company is Rickets Becket or something like that) not the U.S company.

I don't ever wake up with the throat burning, except those rare times when I have the liquid reflux attack which wakes me up and I can't breathe. But as I said, I have that about once a year at most.

I tried Gaviscon Advance (the UK version) in 2018. Did nothing. That plus the Peptest showing zero, plus the doctor seeing "a little throat irritation at most" convinced me that this isn't a reflux thing -- it's mostly a dry throat thing. That's why the rinse works.

I was able to eventually remove my bed from the incline. First I slept on an "incline body pillow" AND incline bed. Felt like I was sleeping on a hill! Then I felt good enough to remove the pillow, and eventually I put the bed flat on the floor as well.

Funny enough I am starting to have some of the same issues again, but a lighter version of it. I might actually put the bed back on an incline, at least a small one.

[Dan Druff]

I do wish I could use nasal spray every day. Stuff feels great. But it is very addictive.

When I was 15, I didn't know this, and accidentally got addicted to nasal spray, in an attempt to return to the track team after a bad cold. I used it every day for 2-3 weeks, then suddenly noticed that I HAD to use it, or otherwise my nose would be stuffy. I said to myself, "Shit, I bet I'm addicted to this", and stopped cold turkey. I was ashamed to tell my parents. Somehow this worked, and my nasal passages went back to normal. Some people have a lot harder time coming off of it than that. Ever since then, I won't use nasal spray 3 days in a row, under any circumstances.

[kewlJ]

.

I was able to eventually remove my bed from the incline. First I slept on an "incline body pillow" AND incline bed. Felt like I was sleeping on a hill! Then I felt good enough to remove the pillow, and eventually I put the bed flat on the floor as well.

Been there, done all that. When I read about raising the head of the bed 8-10 inches, I first used cinder blocks under each leg at the head of bed. Doesn't sound like it would be much of an include, but fuck. Literally like sleeping on a hill. You have to pull yourself up a dozen times during the night.

I also tried the wedge pillow. I sleep on my side, with the arm from that side under a pillow. That didn't work with the wedge pillow as it was too wide. I couldn't get comfortable. I now have bought a set of bed lifts from amazon. They are plastic but durable. There is a 3 inch, and a 5 inch which are stackable to make an 8 inch. I have settled on the 5 inch. Still some pulling myself up a couple times a night, but not nearly as bad.

[kewlJ]

Just out of curiosity, can I ask how long you were on PPI's?

If you buy them over the counter, there is a strict 21 day supply. There is a reason for that. They are incredibly hard to get off once you are on them for more than a month or two. Of course now it is even worse as I am on prescription PPIs at double the OTC strength for years now. . My doctor knows I want off of these damn things, but I can't do it. I always think I can fight through the rebound effect period, but I just can't seem to get there. I wish I had known how hard it is to get off them before I started on them.

[kewlJ]

I have never seen a nasal spray that didn't warn you not to use for more than 3-4 days. Are you not reading the warnings?

[Dan Druff]

I have never seen a nasal spray that didn't warn you not to use for more than 3-4 days. Are you not reading the warnings?

As a 15-year-old in 1987, no, I did not read the warnings. I'm not even sure if such a warning existed on the bottle back then. Things were different in the '80s. You kinda just did stuff and felt your way through it.

[Dan Druff]

Just out of curiosity, can I ask how long you were on PPI's?

If you buy them over the counter, there is a strict 21 day supply. There is a reason for that. They are incredibly hard to get off once you are on them for more than a month or two. Of course now it is even worse as I am on prescription PPIs at double the OTC strength for years now. . My doctor knows I want off of these damn things, but I can't do it. I always think I can fight through the rebound effect period, but I just can't seem to get there. I wish I had known how hard it is to get off them before I started on them.

I was on for about a week and quit them myself, fearing they were possible the cause. I actually got away from blaming them, and believed it was probably just the lump in my throat causing all the anxiety/depression, perhaps worsened by the sudden caffeine withdrawal.

BUT...

The following year I was prescribed PPI for a different purpose, and I took it, not even thinking about the anxiety thing. That night I started to get bad anxiety again, just like 2018! I asked myself, "Wait... how is this back??", and then I realized it.

I have since spoken to several people who got crippling anxiety/depression from PPIs.

Medical science has since caught up, and there has been credible research in the 2020s about PPIs causing anxiety in some people. In fact, many scientists now believe that PPIs are far more dangerous for anxiety than is presently acknowledged, and that they need a lot further study in this area.

All I can tell you is that it brought me to a state I didn't think possible, and I suffered permanent psychological damage as a result.

[kewlJ]

I won't ask what you were on them for the second time. Probablly some sort of stomach disorder that acid makes worse like an ulcer or something.

This is one of my big issues with medicine today. Everything is take a pill for this. Half the time there are side effects from taking the pill (especially long-term) that are worse than the original issue. Or even worse, they don't even know all the side effects and long-term use damage. 15 years down the road it is, well now you have cancer and it could have been caused by this.

I have become VERY uncomfortable with the relationships between Doctors and the pharmaceutical reps and companies.

But these PPIs are really bad news. Any time you start on a new medicine, have some sort of side effect and then the doctors response is well we can give you something for the side effect, it is bad news.

[kewlJ]

Plus with long-term use, your body adjusts to some of these medicines. I have discussed this with my doctor about PPIs. I have a theory that the medicine initially has you make less stomach acid, as it is designed to do. But over time, your body adjusts and goes back to making the same amount of acid as before you started with the medicine. So then if you stop, your body is now making twice as much leading to a bigger problem then the original problem or possible some new issues.

My doctor has said no to my theory, but I am not convinced. The human body adjusts.

[kewlJ]

. In fact, many scientists now believe that PPIs are far more dangerous for anxiety than is presently acknowledged, and that they need a lot further study in this area.

All I can tell you is that it brought me to a state I didn't think possible, and I suffered permanent psychological damage as a result.

I am sitting here, thinking about and trying to understand the connection between reduced stomach acid and increase in anxiety. I don't have those issues so it is hard for me to see a connection. I am not doubting you or anyone else you say has increased anxiety in any way. Just hard to figure a connection. But I guess it is all chemicals and chemicals do different things to different people.

What I think we can agree on is that PPIs are a bad deal. Newer medicines, I think maybe 20 years old now for the first group, that were rushed out before they knew everything and all the dangers. And I think there is a lot of THAT going on.

[redietz]

Just out of curiosity, can I ask how long you were on PPI's?

If you buy them over the counter, there is a strict 21 day supply. There is a reason for that. They are incredibly hard to get off once you are on them for more than a month or two. Of course now it is even worse as I am on prescription PPIs at double the OTC strength for years now. . My doctor knows I want off of these damn things, but I can't do it. I always think I can fight through the rebound effect period, but I just can't seem to get there. I wish I had known how hard it is to get off them before I started on them.

I was on for about a week and quit them myself, fearing they were possible the cause. I actually got away from blaming them, and believed it was probably just the lump in my throat causing all the anxiety/depression, perhaps worsened by the sudden caffeine withdrawal.

BUT...

The following year I was prescribed PPI for a different purpose, and I took it, not even thinking about the anxiety thing. That night I started to get bad anxiety again, just like 2018! I asked myself, "Wait... how is this back??", and then I realized it.

I have since spoken to several people who got crippling anxiety/depression from PPIs.

Medical science has since caught up, and there has been credible research in the 2020s about PPIs causing anxiety in some people. In fact, many scientists now believe that PPIs are far more dangerous for anxiety than is presently acknowledged, and that they need a lot further study in this area.

All I can tell you is that it brought me to a state I didn't think possible, and I suffered permanent psychological damage as a result.

Quick cautionary tale. About 10 years ago, I had a killer head cold with some upper respiratory symptoms. I went to a doc-in-box a mile away and was prescribed a fluroquinolone. I took two doses, then started having an erratic heart beat, but what I didn't realize was that it had immediate psychological effects. I was off in the wild blue yonder and didn't really realize it.

Fortunately, I called my girlfriend, who was in California at the time, and she realized something was seriously wrong with me mentally. So she stayed on the phone with me for more than an hour and talked me out of taking a third dose. I'm pretty much a regimented person (or was) when it comes to formal medical instructions. I follow the print. But she managed to convince me that something was wrong with me. Well, I had a bag packed for the hospital next to me and was convinced I was 50/50 to die during the phone call, but she calmed me down.

I wound up not taking the third dose, which was a really good thing. Eventually, I got myself to a cardiologist. My initial EKG suggested I had " damage consistent with a heart attack" and I was scheduled for a stress test which (had I failed) could have resulted in immediate surgical intervention. Well, I passed the stress test easily, and the question became what the hell was wrong. I wore one of those flak jacket heart monitors for a week. Turns out the further I got from the medicine dosing, the more normal my heart became.

Eventually the cardiologist said he thought he recognized the problem, but only because he had the same issue. I had a ventricular bundle delay, which is not really a problem, unless I took this kind of drug. The drug could have killed me had I taken more doses.

So no fluoroquinalones for me. Or penicillin for that matter, since that almost killed me as an infant. I basically avoid antibiotics altogether unless I were to be hospitalized.

The moral of the story is that while under the sudden influence of the drug, I had very little idea I was mentally screwed up. It was a sudden onset, and after the second dose, I was bizarro. So this kind of side effect can whack you suddenly and from out of left field and you won't necessarily even perceive the effect and how messed up you are.

[Don Perignom]

RIP Otis .

[theywontpayontuesday]

Reading about your health issues DD definitely something almost impossible to overcome and I'm glad you did. Those two months of negativity must have been torture.

[MDawg]

Anyone consulting UNKewlJ on any health issue especially mental health needs to have his head examined.

[jdaewoo]

Why isn't this retard out winning 80% of his tie bets?