Vegas Formula One

[kewlJ]

3 posts to say what? That you do have no proof of anything. Same as Singer. Same as Dawg. What the fuck happened to you? You used to be normal. Now you have tied yourself to Singer and Dawg.

Your whole issue is the shuffle machine situation. Those machines can be easily hacked or altered. They were intentionally built that was. It was true when I proved it to myself and it is equally true today. AND was proven YET again, when the recent private poker game fixing came to light.

Those machines have the capability to put the cards in any order the operator desires. THAT is cheating and illegal! Does that mean every casino using a ASM is cheating? No of course not. Most of my play still occurs against ASM. But it doesn't change the fact that they have the ability to cheat. And I personally have run across 2 incidents where they did and wear cheating. And my posting about one of the incidents (picked up at other websites) resulted in them pulling those machines just weeks after they were installed.

[accountinquestion]

3 posts to say what? That you do have no proof of anything. Same as Singer. Same as Dawg. What the fuck happened to you? You used to be normal. Now you have tied yourself to Singer and Dawg.

Your whole issue is the shuffle machine situation. Those machines can be easily hacked or altered. They were intentionally built that was. It was true when I proved it to myself and it is equally true today. AND was proven YET again, when the recent private poker game fixing came to light.

Those machines have the capability to put the cards in any order the operator desires. THAT is cheating and illegal! Does that mean every casino using a ASM is cheating? No of course not. Most of my play still occurs against ASM. But it doesn't change the fact that they have the ability to cheat. And I personally have run across 2 incidents where they did and wear cheating. And my posting about one of the incidents (picked up at other websites) resulted in them pulling those machines just weeks after they were installed.

Oooh the great Kewl getting on me for responding with 3 posts in a row to 3 different posts and giving too many details isn't good.

Bro, you've done 4-5 in the past week when you're just talking to yourself !

No - the private poker game didn't prove anywhere near the same thing. We all know what is possible theoretically given the capabilities of hte machine. It is just a matter of reprogramming it. I could list a dozen ways it could cheat. I have a strong suspicion I was cold-decked by one of those machines. Hi-lo stud where a guy hits a wheel in first 5 cards vs 6s full of deuces. Had to be absolutely perfect cards and my 777 never filled up and I called down like a donkey. There are other things that happened which I can't say but overall I'd say more likely than not I was cheated. The opponents cards nearly blocked each other perfectly making it even harder for me to fold.

THIS HOWEVER SAYS NOTHING about the actual company having some built-in cheat mode you could just readily discover and activate. Those poker cheat machines are custom 1-off jobs not something produced by the company. If you found out in 15 minutes then everyone in casinos would know and the whole company would fall on its face as it got out.

I'd love to talk more about things as I find it very interesting but .. it is conjecture on my part.

doh

Just stop it. Get help. Anything. At least these other guys are entertaining if they are making up their stories.

You actually had me fooled. I went and repeated the shuffler story to other people as if I thought I had it in good authority. I didn't. I was fooled by the longest running catfishin gambling forum history. lol. We know the double-up bug was real. Whether mdawg is big time gambler or not - I don't care. It doesn't impact me. I'm not going around telling people "but a guy on the internet crushes high level table games and no one knows how. Trust me." but I did say .. "I heard from a guy I trust who claimed that ... "

Your story could have worked if you'd stuck with the angle that the casino had put the cheat mode in themselves. But nah, you had to claim you took an off the shelf shuffler and did it. nonsense!

[kewlJ]

Your story could have worked if you'd stuck with the angle that the casino had put the cheat mode in themselves. But nah, you had to claim you took an off the shelf shuffler and did it. nonsense!

have you lost your mind. The casinos DID put the machines in cheat mode. Or some technician from the casinos. No where did I ever say differently.

And stop repeating that I did it or hired someone from craigslist. Complete lie. I have told you it is a lie and yet you continue to repeat it.

I was sort of working with another well known AP. Someone VERY known, as he was interested as well. After I saw what I wanted toi see, I actually sold him the machine (and I am sure he took it apart piece by piece to see what he could find). HE referred me specifically to a guy, a not off of craigslist, I have no idea how he knew the guy or of the guy.

The guy is/was VERY familiar with the machines and situation....that is all I am going to say. You can infer whatever you want from that. It took him a very short time to reprogram or whatever terminology you want to use, and the machine was doing exactly what I wanted to see if it could. Put cards in a specific order.

And that is exactly what occurred in the recent poker cheating using these machines. You now admit putting the cards in a specific order desired, and I am not talking about sequential order, but an order that favors the house. So if you KNOW and admit that is possible, why would you think some casino and some rogue employees, NEVER have done so.

You know people said the same thing with Mindplay 20 years ago. "Oh casinos would never do that....they have too much to lose" Well they did do that and got caught.

[kewlJ]

I call this ability to alter the machines a backdoor type thing. And I believe it was intentional. I can't prove that, nor want to and my suspicion would never hold up in court. If you brought in a tech guy to show how easy it was, the company would just say "we knew nothing about that". I know that. THAT is why I was never interested in going after the company or even any individual casino.

There was a brief push to present the evidence to gaming. I refused to be part of that. They tried to recruit Shackleford who was out of town when this went down. When he returned from whatever little adventure he was on, it is my understanding he had an interest. But it was almost too late. I don't know as I wasn't involved after that.

I was NEVER interested in bringing down the company, nor any casinos. All I was doing is warning players "hey be careful with these machines. The have capabilities that are detrimental to players".

I am not going to keep going over this shit with you. You can believe no tech guy could know how to alter the machines. You can believe no casino would ever risk cheating (when they always have). You can beleive the earth is flat for all I care.

[kewlJ]

A card counter plays to a very slim advantage. Less than 1%, if we do everything right! We have to be very aware and vigilant about even the remote possibility of cheating. I KNOW I have been cheated twice using Automatic Shuffle machines (probably more). I KNOW I have been cheated a couple times with dealers dealing seconds (probably more), I can't prove, but suspect I have been cheated at least a couple times with missing cards (short deck). Probably more than I even suspect.

I also KNOW this industry has a history of cheating and getting away with whatever they can.

You and others can go with that "they would never do that...never risk that" I never will I have seen too much.

[MDawg]

kewlJ has also been caught in a lot of lies over time, both on this forum and elsewhere. Therefore, it is unclear if he really makes much (or anything) playing blackjack these days.

kewlJ is basically the Boy Who Cried Wolf of these AP forums. He has lied so many times that it's impossible to believe any stories he tells.

you lie so much you get yourself confused.

The entire forum knows you have an issue with pathological lying.

Other forums also know you have an issue with pathological lying.

Maybe you should listen to what everyone else says, and take a look in the mirror.

you can't help but insert fibs into your postings, and sometimes they're not very believable fibs, and the entire thing comes crashing down.

You also pulled a death hoax on another forum.

[MDawg]

The executive summary:

Why are you still here?

Let's face it it though, UNKewlJ has spent most of his life in places where he is unwanted - even booted from his own familial homestead. There is really no question that he is this dislikable in person. I believe that so far as his "casino associates" being figments of his imagination, so is anyone he wants to refer to as friends. Someone like this would just be exhausting to hang around with all his constant lying, woe is me victimization, and then pretending that he doesn't care if he is liked, believed or not.

He's been booted from different forums too. At this one, Dan Druff is nice enough to not ban hammer him but at the same time, makes it clear that he finds him objectionable and would lose no sleep over his departing for good. But UNKewlJ stalks off sulking for a while and then returns, pretending like he doesn't get the hint.

And again it comes back to that UNKewlJ has no pride and doesn't mind hanging in places where even the owner is at best ambivalent about whether he stays or goes.

Mental illness is also part of the answer to why he keeps coming back.

[Keystone]

Let's face it it though, UNKewlJ has spent most of his life in places where he is unwanted - even booted from his own familial homestead. There is really no question that he is this dislikable in person. I believe that so far as his "casino associates" being figments of his imagination, so is anyone he wants to refer to as friends. Someone like this would just be exhausting to hang around with all his constant lying, woe is me victimization, and then pretending that he doesn't care if he is liked, believed or not.

He's been booted from different forums too. At this one, Dan Druff is nice enough to not ban hammer him but at the same time, makes it clear that he finds him objectionable and would lose no sleep over his departing for good. But UNKewlJ stalks off sulking for a while and then returns, pretending like he doesn't get the hint.

And again it comes back to that UNKewlJ has no pride and doesn't mind hanging in places where even the owner is at best ambivalent about whether he stays or goes.

Mental illness is also part of the answer to why he keeps coming back.

What is this now,15-20 posts today all stalking KJ?....sure he(?) runs a law practice lolololololol

Hrd to believe Boz gets banned while this SN, closet homosexual shit stain doesn`t

[jdaewoo]

No retard who claims to spend 100+ days in a row in Vegas "runs" a law practice.

[accountinquestion]

Your story could have worked if you'd stuck with the angle that the casino had put the cheat mode in themselves. But nah, you had to claim you took an off the shelf shuffler and did it. nonsense!

have you lost your mind. The casinos DID put the machines in cheat mode. Or some technician from the casinos. No where did I ever say differently.

And stop repeating that I did it or hired someone from craigslist. Complete lie. I have told you it is a lie and yet you continue to repeat it.

I was sort of working with another well known AP. Someone VERY known, as he was interested as well. After I saw what I wanted toi see, I actually sold him the machine (and I am sure he took it apart piece by piece to see what he could find). HE referred me specifically to a guy, a not off of craigslist, I have no idea how he knew the guy or of the guy.

The guy is/was VERY familiar with the machines and situation....that is all I am going to say. You can infer whatever you want from that. It took him a very short time to reprogram or whatever terminology you want to use, and the machine was doing exactly what I wanted to see if it could. Put cards in a specific order.

And that is exactly what occurred in the recent poker cheating using these machines. You now admit putting the cards in a specific order desired, and I am not talking about sequential order, but an order that favors the house. So if you KNOW and admit that is possible, why would you think some casino and some rogue employees, NEVER have done so.

You know people said the same thing with Mindplay 20 years ago. "Oh casinos would never do that....they have too much to lose" Well they did do that and got caught.

Bro, you bought a random shuffler off ebay. Presumably it was NOT gaffed already yet you found this cheat mode. The poker games would not even have the same software and possibly a different model shuffler.

You said something very close to having hired them on CL or said CL specifically. I forget. I'm not going to waste much time on someone with a light grip on reality.

It is not like i can dig it up and show you how you said something different - it would make no difference to you. You'd just continue on with your nonsense.

The problem is your IQ is too low to understand this distinction of a third party gaffing a machine vs the company itself. Given your prior story - shuffler off ebay or whatever then it was gaffed by the manufacturer.

Get help.

Seriously.

If I need I can pass a hat and send you the money if you promise you'll spend it on meds.

[accountinquestion]

I was NEVER interested in bringing down the company, nor any casinos. All I was doing is warning players "hey be careful with these machines. The have capabilities that are detrimental to players".

I am not going to keep going over this shit with you. You can believe no tech guy could know how to alter the machines. You can believe no casino would ever risk cheating (when they always have). You can beleive the earth is flat for all I care.

Well anyone with any sense doesn't believe you.

No, MisterV doesn't have much sense.

Reprogramming a machine in an hour is LOL. Having a dedicated EE type person dissassemble it, reverse engineer it, reprogram it - is a whole different thing. The latter is possible but you are not smart enough to understand any of this and thus painted yourself in a corner like all bad bullshitters. You've bullshitted so much you confuse yourself.

Ya dig?

[kewlJ]

Reprogramming a machine in an hour is LOL. Having a dedicated EE type person dissassemble it, reverse engineer it, reprogram it - is a whole different thing. The latter is possible but you are not smart enough to understand any of this and thus painted yourself in a corner like all bad bullshitters. You've bullshitted so much you confuse yourself.

Nobody has to disassemble, and reverse engineer anything. Where do you get this shit from?

I'll tell you what. As a starting point, watch some of the videos mickeycrimm posted right after the latest poker scandal broke involving these machines. With access to the machines the re-programing or altering can occur within minutes. the hard part is access to the machines. And in the case of altering being done by a casino or casino emplyee, that access is unfettered.

[kewlJ]

And it is very very easy to detect when these machines have been altered and are not shuffling randomly. You simply count blackjacks. Player and dealer. You should see a blackjack roughly 1 out of every 20 hands. When you start to see a lot less over a significant number of trials...."Houston we have a problem".

And since you don't play blackjack let me tell you what that would look like and what the results would be. Lets say the machine was altered or reprogrammed in a way that there were 50% less blackjack (both player and dealer). That would be one every 30 hands. Since you would still see blackjacks I doubt anyone at the table, including myself would initially notice. But that 50% reduction in blackjacks for the player would raise the house advantage from less than 1% to upwards of 4%, That is a big deal my friend.

Now I don't want to start counting blackjacks every time I sit down at a ASM. But there are other "tells" and when you start to see some, you might want to start counting blackjack. And an experienced player can spot these tells and when things don't feel right. And anyone that just dismisses it as "they would never do that" doesn't know the casino gambling industry very well.

[kewlJ]

Given your prior story - shuffler off ebay or whatever then it was gaffed by the manufacturer.

Get help.

I didn't buy a fucking machine off of ebay either. I bought a machine that was in a casino only a short time before I purchased it. That is as far as I will go. If you can't figure out what that means, you really are a fucking idiot.

And the guy, you know the "craigslist guy", I don't remember what i said but I am sure I didn't want to divulge where his expert knowledge of these machines came from. Are you really this stupid.

Ebay and craigslist, what the fuck is the matter with you dude. You make up shit to suit yourself just as much as Dawg and Singer. You really are full blown Dawg/Singer troll now.

[kewlJ]

Both the incidents I saw were at smaller independent casinos, rather than one of the large chains. I don't think that was by accident. Who was involved? and how high up? Pit manager? Shift manager, casino manager? I can't tell you and don't really care.

But both these locations were in my primary rotation of games meaning I played then weekly to maybe 6 times a month, so it wouldn't take too long before an experienced player like myself would notice something isn't quite right. And IIRC at the first location I knew something was off weeks, maybe a month or even two, before I figured out what it was. Having had the experience with the first location, I kind of spotted the issue at the second location much quicker.

Now the way I play now-adays is much different. I seek crowded conditions which also means slower conditions. I am just not going to see enough trials at one table to know or even suspect when something isnt right.

[mickeycrimm]

3 posts to say what? That you do have no proof of anything. Same as Singer. Same as Dawg. What the fuck happened to you? You used to be normal. Now you have tied yourself to Singer and Dawg.

Your whole issue is the shuffle machine situation. Those machines can be easily hacked or altered. They were intentionally built that was. It was true when I proved it to myself and it is equally true today. AND was proven YET again, when the recent private poker game fixing came to light.

Those machines have the capability to put the cards in any order the operator desires. THAT is cheating and illegal! Does that mean every casino using a ASM is cheating? No of course not. Most of my play still occurs against ASM. But it doesn't change the fact that they have the ability to cheat. And I personally have run across 2 incidents where they did and wear cheating. And my posting about one of the incidents (picked up at other websites) resulted in them pulling those machines just weeks after they were installed.

Oooh the great Kewl getting on me for responding with 3 posts in a row to 3 different posts and giving too many details isn't good.

Bro, you've done 4-5 in the past week when you're just talking to yourself !

No - the private poker game didn't prove anywhere near the same thing. We all know what is possible theoretically given the capabilities of hte machine. It is just a matter of reprogramming it. I could list a dozen ways it could cheat. I have a strong suspicion I was cold-decked by one of those machines. Hi-lo stud where a guy hits a wheel in first 5 cards vs 6s full of deuces. Had to be absolutely perfect cards and my 777 never filled up and I called down like a donkey. There are other things that happened which I can't say but overall I'd say more likely than not I was cheated. The opponents cards nearly blocked each other perfectly making it even harder for me to fold.

THIS HOWEVER SAYS NOTHING about the actual company having some built-in cheat mode you could just readily discover and activate. Those poker cheat machines are custom 1-off jobs not something produced by the company. If you found out in 15 minutes then everyone in casinos would know and the whole company would fall on its face as it got out.

I'd love to talk more about things as I find it very interesting but .. it is conjecture on my part.

doh

Just stop it. Get help. Anything. At least these other guys are entertaining if they are making up their stories.

You actually had me fooled. I went and repeated the shuffler story to other people as if I thought I had it in good authority. I didn't. I was fooled by the longest running catfishin gambling forum history. lol. We know the double-up bug was real. Whether mdawg is big time gambler or not - I don't care. It doesn't impact me. I'm not going around telling people "but a guy on the internet crushes high level table games and no one knows how. Trust me." but I did say .. "I heard from a guy I trust who claimed that ... "

Your story could have worked if you'd stuck with the angle that the casino had put the cheat mode in themselves. But nah, you had to claim you took an off the shelf shuffler and did it. nonsense!

A 3 of a kind is never good in a raising war on the end with 3 people in the pot. The 3 of a kind is always trapped between a flush or full house on one side and a made low on the other side. The fact that you are just calling their raises tells them you are weak. But the boards are also easy reads.

I started out playing Stud 8 or better in the early 90's. I learned that shit quick. I've even thrown away nut flushes in the raising war on the end and I was always right.

[MDawg]

There has never been a weakass little twit who nervously keeps on claiming "I'm OK with who doesn't believe me" and then goes off on rants and whining about not being believed as if someone just cut his tiny nuts off, as the serial lying kew.

[kewlJ]

AcctinQ, since you claim I am not smart enough to know what I am talking about, How about Dan Druff, you know my good friend Dan Druff. he stated he worked in this field for several years. Take a read at some things he had to say on this subject matter.

From what I'm reading, and from my knowledge of embedded systems programming (which I worked in for several years prior to becoming a poker pro), I highly suspect that this particular "chip" can be removed and then one with more sinister programming could be inserted in its place.

If Shufflemasters can see the cards they're shuffling and have the ability to arrange the cards in order, then they can very possibly be rogue-programmed to do other things, such as this "clumping" you mention.

I fully agree wtih kewlJ's decision to out this, by the way. This is indeed illegal cheating, and is screwing both recreational players and APs. Only those who knew about the clumping could exploit it, but you can't fault a guy for outing something like this where everyone else is getting cheated. It's different than outing something which only benefits APs but doesn't hurt non-APs, such as misset or overcomping machines.

This clumping totally screws blackjack players in several ways.

1) It essentially removes several tens from the deck by artificially inserting a lot of ties with natural 20s.

2) It reduces the number of natural wins for the player where they don't have to draw. Drawing is a big disadvantage to the player (compared to the dealer) because the player loses if both themselves and the dealer busts. So if the player and dealer are both drawing, it's a disaster for the player odds-wise.

3) If the clump is fully or partially beyond the cut card (and thus never dealt), it confuses counters into believing they have an edge where they actually don't, and these counters are increasing their bets in -EV situations.

4) If the clump is fully or partially beyond the cut card (and thus never dealt), it screws all players (counters and recs) because undealt tens help the house big time (the entire concept of counting revolves around this).

I have just verified that the Shufflemaster MD3 can indeed read cards.

https://www.sggaming.com/Games/Shuff...flers/MD3-7814

MD3

Take Batch Shuffler Performance to New Levels!

Leading the way in batch shuffling technology, the MD3™ features card recognition that reads and verifies every card being shuffled, bringing an unprecedented level of security to multi-deck table games like blackjack and baccarat. Its patented platform and gripper system counts and shuffles up to eight decks of cards quickly and quietly, and alerts the dealer to missing or added cards.This impressive shuffler combines all of its features to increase game revenue, enhance game security, and provide operational efficiencies for cost savings.

I bolded the relevant part.

So it appears that these Shufflemasters can indeed read cards AND sort them into sequential order.

It's not a stretch to believe that they could be modified to do more than that.

Here's a simple technical discussion for those who may not understand the significance of shuffle machines being able to see and arrange cards.

The only difference between a shuffle machine arranging cards in sequential order (apparently a feature on the newer Shufflemasters), and one arranging cards illegally, is the programming.

That's it.

Physically, they would be identical machines.

The same capability to arrange the cards sequentially could easily be used to arrange the cards other ways, such as the alleged high-card-clumping.

All a bad actor would need to do would be to access where the programming is stored, and change it to this slightly different functionality.

From a non-technical standpoint, picture if you taught a 6-year-old to arrange a deck sequentially by suit. Once the 6-year-old mastered this, you could easily teach him to take a bunch of high cards and place them at the end of the deck. The ability to do the first thing would basically give him the ability to do the second. You'd just need to give him different instructions. Same situation here.

My concern is that someone could simply remove a flash device in the system containing the programming, and either modify it or replace it with an identical device with different programming.

I am also concerned that the developers of the device simply didn't consider this abuse possibly taking place (or perhaps didn't care), and thus there were no measures in place to prevent it.

I don't know the hardware of a Shufflemaster, so I can't comment further. But "seeing eye shufflers" should make the average gambler very nervous, as they're just begging to be abused.

The only thing I personally disagree with Dan Druff on is the next to last paragraph. I don't believe shufflemaster didn't consider this possibility, nor that they didn't care. I believe they were/are 100% complicit. But like any smart company would, they put just enough distance between themselves and the machines that they could later claim, we knew nothing about this and it would be hard to prove they did, short of hauling some tech folks from shufflemaster into court.

But what shufflemaster knew or didn't know is almost irrelevant. these machines had/have the ability to clump cards in any number of ways that can increase house advantage and hrm players who will be playing at a much bigger disadvantage.

[MisterV]

MisterV doesn't have much sense.

Actually my net worth is in excess of 200,000,000 cents.

Do you seriously think that a lightweight such as yourself has more cents than me?

Bwa ha ha ha...dream on.

[coach belly]

When you start to see a lot less over a significant number of trials....

How many trials are significant such that it would demonstrate a rigged shuffle?

How can you track a significant number of trials, if you are exiting the casino after showing your max bet?