The Wizard will bank this bet: 1/6 vs 1/11

[kewl]

I got warning:

"careful
No need to use a word like farted. Thanks"


Okie dokie , I thought farted is considered mostly harmless and humorous lol

In my country when someone is making a moot point or is incorrect or ambiguous we use to say " Did you say something or did you fart?"

[Alan Mendelson]

kewl will be taking a week off to think about his use of certain words here especially after being warned about it.

[Rob.Singer]

Good time to lock this thread up. It's run it's course, and with the WoVers starting to claim that they're not the same anonymous superstars they are over there, let's see what other topics they'd like to be taken to the woodshed on.

[Alan Mendelson]

There is one question I had which I don't think anyone has answered: why does it matter which of two dice is initially showing the 2?

Because the WOVers (and I think Arci too) said we don't know which of the two dice is showing a 2 that their answer of 1/11 is the correct answer.

I have always said that it doesn't matter which of the two dice shows a 2 because it's only a two dice problem. I said if Die A shows a 2, then it's Die B which has the 1/6 chance -- and vice versa. And I even offered that if both Die A and Die B show a 2 then the chance for either die being a 2 was also 1/6.

Yet, no one ever explained their position why my position was wrong.

In fact their insistence that we don't know which of the two dice shows a 2 is the foundation for their 1/11 answer as the Wizard showed in his video and as miplet showed in his video.

[indignant99]

You did it again, Indignant. You used FOUR sets of dice instead of just TWO.
We caught you. And you're not going to get it by us.
It's still 1/6 no matter how many pretty pictures you post.
Give it a rest here and go back to WOV. Thanks for coming by.

• I can see now, that my diagram was unclear, confusing, and erroneous.
• You're right... Any picture must use 2 dice only.
• I have made a new diagram - two dice only - to prove you're correct.

• You can use 1-of-6 on top... one fixed red deuce against six blue faces.
• You can use 1-of-6 on bottom... one fixed blue deuce against six red faces.
• Or you can use 2-of-12 combinations - the whole enchilada - on one pair of dice.

[OneHitWonder]

It's run it's course, and with the WoVers starting to claim that they're not the same anonymous superstars they are over there, let's see what other topics they'd like to be taken to the woodshed on.

I have yet to see the Wizard post anywhere else.

[Alan Mendelson]

Indignant99 I still don't understand your graphic.

[OneHitWonder]

There is one question I had which I don't think anyone has answered: why does it matter which of two dice is initially showing the 2?

Because the WOVers (and I think Arci too) said we don't know which of the two dice is showing a 2 that their answer of 1/11 is the correct answer.

It doesn't matter. What matters is how the question as written is properly interpreted. The mathematical interpretation of this must match its plain English gist. Believe me, real mathematicians use about one word a paragraph. What we have "drummed into us" over at the Wizard's is a bunch of math talk. The reason it's not very logical if you look closer.

I have always said that it doesn't matter which of the two dice shows a 2 because it's only a two dice problem. I said if Die A shows a 2, then it's Die B which has the 1/6 chance -- and vice versa. And I even offered that if both Die A and Die B show a 2 then the chance for either die being a 2 was also 1/6..

Short answer is that it matters the dice are taken as two separate dice in a specific roll of the stated condition; or as taken together in single cards from a deck with the condition on each card (for both dice).

Yet, no one ever explained their position why my position was wrong.

Because it's not wrong? I agree with you that this isn't about 1/11; but I think that you haven't distanced yourself far enough away from the 1/11.

This is about a specific roll, so as far as 1/11 and your way of saying 1/6 say the same thing, anyway, yours is the better part of the dispute then.

In fact their insistence that we don't know which of the two dice shows a 2 is the foundation for their 1/11 answer as the Wizard showed in his video and as miplet showed in his video.

Simulating his own interpretation, doesn't prove that the Wizard's is the correct one, let alone the only possible correct one. He proved that 1/11 by calculation is 1/11 by simulation. A strange error in thinking for a self-styled math genius.


P.S. I will bring this question before a real math forum pending more nonsense from over there. More time to try to sum this up later.

[indignant99]

Indignant99 I still don't understand your graphic.

• The red die is on the left. I merely showed all six of its faces.
• The blue die is on the right. I merely showed all of its six faces, too.
• The top arrows connect a fixed red deuce, coupling it with any of the six blue faces.
• The bottom arrows connect a fixed blue deuce, coupling it with any of the six red faces.

[redietz]

It doesn't matter. What matters is how the question as written is properly interpreted. The mathematical interpretation of this must match its plain English gist. Believe me, real mathematicians use about one word a paragraph. What we have "drummed into us" over at the Wizard's is a bunch of math talk. The reason it's not very logical if you look closer.


Short answer is that it matters the dice are taken as two separate dice in a specific roll of the stated condition; or as taken together in single cards from a deck with the condition on each card (for both dice).


Because it's not wrong? I agree with you that this isn't about 1/11; but I think that you haven't distanced yourself far enough away from the 1/11.

This is about a specific roll, so as far as 1/11 and your way of saying 1/6 say the same thing, anyway, yours is the better part of the dispute then.


Simulating his own interpretation, doesn't prove that the Wizard's is the correct one, let alone the only possible correct one. He proved that 1/11 by calculation is 1/11 by simulation. A strange error in thinking for a self-styled math genius.


P.S. I will bring this question before a real math forum pending more nonsense from over there. More time to try to sum this up later.

Well done.

[indignant99]

• The red die is on the left. I merely showed all six of its faces.
• The blue die is on the right. I merely showed all of its six faces, too.
• The top arrows connect a fixed red deuce, coupling it with any of the six blue faces.
• The bottom arrows connect a fixed blue deuce, coupling it with any of the six red faces.

I'm trying to be real super-clear here. (Since I wasn't super-clear before.)





This is what I did to the Red Die. I did the same to the Blue Die.

[Alan Mendelson]

Thanks, Indignant99. I take your word for it, but I still don't understand all the lines going back and forth.

OnHitWonder this comment of yours had a very big impact on me: "Simulating his own interpretation, doesn't prove that the Wizard's is the correct one," and that says a lot.

From the get-go the Wizard immediately jumped on the 1/11 answer and resisted at all times any idea that the question itself might have been flawed or that following the information in the question might cause you to come up with a different answer.

Even now, on the WOV forum there is discussion about another problem with two dice using the numbers 3,5 and pointing to how the answer inolves 11 dice combinations. And while the correct answer is 2/11 it is because there the question lacked the specifics in the question we discussed.

Frankly, it shows me how far they will reach to protect their own flawed thinking.

[arcimede$]

There is one question I had which I don't think anyone has answered: why does it matter which of two dice is initially showing the 2?

Because the WOVers (and I think Arci too) said we don't know which of the two dice is showing a 2 that their answer of 1/11 is the correct answer.

I have always said that it doesn't matter which of the two dice shows a 2 because it's only a two dice problem. I said if Die A shows a 2, then it's Die B which has the 1/6 chance -- and vice versa. And I even offered that if both Die A and Die B show a 2 then the chance for either die being a 2 was also 1/6.

Yet, no one ever explained their position why my position was wrong.

People have explained why your position is wrong over and over again. You ignore the explanations. Why should anyone repeat what has been done many times?

[indignant99]

I still don't understand all the lines going back and forth.

They're just arrows, showing how a Deuce can be combo-ed. (Gotta have a two-dice result, right?)

Red Deuce ---> Blue Ace, Blue Deuce, Blue Three, Blue Four, Blue Five, Blue Six

Blue Deuce ---> Red Ace, Red Deuce, Red Three, Red Four, Red Five, Red Six

[Alan Mendelson]

People have explained why your position is wrong over and over again. You ignore the explanations. Why should anyone repeat what has been done many times?

Arc what was wrong was the understanding of the original question. How many more times do you have to hear about it?

[arcimede$]

Arc what was wrong was the understanding of the original question. How many more times do you have to hear about it?

I explained the two possible interpretation long ago. I also explained why your interpretation was wrong. You ignored the comment. Face-palm.

[indignant99]

They're just arrows, showing how a Deuce can be combo-ed. (Gotta have a two-dice result, right?)

Red Deuce ---> Blue Ace, Blue Deuce, Blue Three, Blue Four, Blue Five, Blue Six

Blue Deuce ---> Red Ace, Red Deuce, Red Three, Red Four, Red Five, Red Six

I have an alternate diagram. I separated the arrows, so they're not all on top of each other. I'm not sure this is any clearer. What do you think (about clearer)?

[regnis]

And I would still say that once you show me the blue deuce, the other 5 faces on the blue die are eliminated.

[Alan Mendelson]

I explained the two possible interpretation long ago. I also explained why your interpretation was wrong. You ignored the comment. Face-palm.

To me the original question was no different than throwing two dice down a craps table and one coming to rest on a 2 while the other die is a spinner.

[Rob.Singer]

And I would still say that once you show me the blue deuce, the other 5 faces on the blue die are eliminated.

And therein lies what remains mysterious to the math people. This is the 1in6 interpretation in its entirety. This is the way the original question was meant to be interpreted. Once wizard took the deep-thinker's interpretation to arrive at 1in11, his people and a few others had no choice but to follow him down his yellow brick road.

This is all it is.