My Advantage Video Poker Play

[Alan Mendelson]

RS___ you are another double talker.

1. Seeing a hole card does not mean the cards are in your hand to deliver the big wins. To put it simply you might see an ACE as the hold card but if your two cards are 8s, knowing that on the flop an ACE is coming does you ZERO good. The only time knowing the hole card helps you is if the hole card will complete your hand. And to put that simply, you are holding 8s and you see the hole card is another 8. Stop your double talk.

2. If you're not aware of any casino that does this, and I am not aware of any casino that does this then the burden is on jbjb to tell us what casino has a dealer shuffling. I know how dealers remove cards from an automatic shuffler and it is far more difficult to see the hole cards coming off an automatic shuffler -- unless the dealer is in on the cheat.

3. You wrote: "Sometimes very rarely, only 25% of the time. Games do exist where you can see the HC 90% of the time or higher." All I can say is -- Really?

4. Yes, this question is like question #2. Tell me the casino using a hand shuffle and deal and not an automatic shuffler for a game licensed by ShuffleMaster. I can't wait to tell ShuffleMaster.

[Rob.Singer]

I'll at least give you credit that you wish to be informed about it if you ask. Again, ten years ago, I though just like you. As far as I knew, card counting was the only way to beat the casino. I've learned that you have to keep an open mind except with betting systems.

You're all smoke and mirrors just like RS__, only his mirrors have a few more cracks in them than yours. You two bring all the assets of WoV members which includes insufficient knowledge of casinos to be talking smack, unsupportable claims, identity cowardice, and easily ruffled feathers whenever your gig gets exposed.

[jbjb]

...2. If you're not aware of any casino that does this, and I am not aware of any casino that does this then the burden is on jbjb to tell us what casino has a dealer shuffling. I know how dealers remove cards from an automatic shuffler and it is far more difficult to see the hole cards coming off an automatic shuffler -- unless the dealer is in on the cheat.

3. You wrote: "Sometimes very rarely, only 25% of the time. Games do exist where you can see the HC 90% of the time or higher." All I can say is -- Really?

4. Yes, this question is like question #2. Tell me the casino using a hand shuffle and deal and not an automatic shuffler for a game licensed by ShuffleMaster. I can't wait to tell ShuffleMaster.

2. Yes it's difficult or impossible if the dealer pulls them out properly. That's why we scout and keep notes of the superstars.
3. 25% of the time is a waste of time. We'll pass. And yes, there are 100% games out there. No I won't tell you where.
4. Again, no I won't tell you where.

5. We've got 5 hours in on a stud game today and we're down. So yes, we do incur losses.

[Rob.Singer]

Alan, he won't tell you where because he just doesn't know. He just doesn't know. It's what phonies do.

[Alan Mendelson]

One of the things I learned about the law is that when a witness gives any testimony which is false you must discount all the testimony of the witness.

Here jbjb has made some outrageous claims and statements and has failed to back any of them up.

Just saying.

[jbjb]

Believe what you want. If you think I'm stupid enough to reveal our locations and have you or someone ruin them for us, you've got another thing coming. I'll leave it at that. And again, the only phony in the gambling world is Singer himself and EVERYBODY knows it!!

[Alan Mendelson]

Im sorry jbjb. But a casino using a human to shuffle the cards, and not a card shuffler machine is not a secret. If you can't reveal the name of that casino at least I can't believe a word you say.

Frankly, I had a hard time with your claim that you paid $129,000 in taxes.
then you made some outlandish claims about big wins at Mississippi Stud.
then the claim about seeing all those hole cards while you held the hands that would benefit.

It's just too much for my skeptical, news reporter who put con artists in jail, mind to believe.

Actually, I have seen the evidence of Rob's in print in Gaming Today. I read his column for years. I have seen no proof of yours.

[RS__]

jbjb: The thread is over. No point in trying to educate any of these guys, especially when they refuse to listen and read. If anything, posting about this (and similar topics re: AP) is just hurting you and other players out there playing these games.

[Rob.Singer]

jbjb: The thread is over. No point in trying to educate any of these guys, especially when they refuse to listen and read. If anything, posting about this (and similar topics re: AP) is just hurting you and other players out there playing these games.

Translation: "jbjb, before we expose ourselves further as armchair gamblers and dig our holes even deeper, I suggest we cut our losses on these particular set of lies".

Sage advice

[Alan Mendelson]

jbjb: The thread is over. No point in trying to educate any of these guys, especially when they refuse to listen and read. If anything, posting about this (and similar topics re: AP) is just hurting you and other players out there playing these games.

Unfortunately neither one of you have given us any information that could make us believe that what you describe actually happens.

I wonder why you APers don't also believe in dice control? You have about as much proof of what you can do as the dice controllers have who teach those expensive courses.

[alpax]

What do they stand to gain for disclosing their advantage? Obviously $100 table limits can only be offered at the higher end casinos. I've seen it at Total Rewards properties so Caesars Palace is a good place to start.

I've played enough Mississippi Stud to understand that even with TWO PAIRS at full max bet can replenish 10 losses. If I knew and was capable, I'd take what the 5th Street card is any day. If you have a unsuited 2 and 8, conventional wisdom says to fold since you have no possibilities of a straight or flush and a non paying pair, if you have knowledge that the 5th street is an 8, you can risk free go for two pairs, 3 of a kind, full house, or even quads. I seen people know away 7/3 ugly hand and miss out on full houses and two pairs many times.

I'll believe in dice control if there are people that can win the fire bet "at will".

[Alan Mendelson]

What do they stand to gain for disclosing their advantage? Obviously $100 table limits can only be offered at the higher end casinos.

Unfortunately, everybody can claim to have an advantage on the Internet. And if we keep reading about claims without proof the fiction writers will take over. Sorry, but I don't want this to be a site for fiction. If you can't give us details, don't try to tease us with your stories about your big wins.

At least when it comes to video poker we can see the pictures of the jackpots.

By the way, Jason has a picture of a his royal flush at Mississippi Stud. I have photos of my big fire bet jackpot. Rob Singer has photos of his $50-thou wins.

Betting $100 on Mississippi Stud is not uncommon. The card casinos here in LA that offer the game, including Commerce, allow $100 antes plus 3X antes for each card turn.

I am glad you mentioned getting two pair at Mississippi Stud. You make it sound like two pair is easy to hit. Frankly getting one paying pair of Jacks or Better is damn hard.

[redietz]

I know nothing about Mississippi Stud or the discussion, but I have a question or two.

Assuming RS and jbjb do what they say they do, what is their motivation for reporting this on forums? I just do not see the point. If I were in their shoes and were winning doing these things, I would keep my mouth very, very shut. Why report? Why brag? Why always reference a "we" instead of a "me,", which would tip off casinos even more? Why go into detail?

What is the benefit of reporting? Is being perceived as anonymous expert on a forum worth the risk? What if digital PIs forensically identify these guys via IP addresses? Then their gigs becomes vulnerable both to copycats and the casinos. What is the benefit of spelling out what you are doing?

Who knows? The Zodiac killer sent letters. If I were in his shoes, I'd just kill people and be done with it. But that's me.

The more I consider this, the less sense it makes. Alan has ties to casinos. Technically, casinos could interpret the hole carding as purposeful cheating. That brings the entire discussion here into the law enforcement realm. That means computer forensics could be applied to their IP addresses here. That puts their gigs at true risk. Anyone really winning by doing this, and then reporting it, is either stupid or driven by weird anonymous vanity. I just don't see professional gamblers as either.

[regnis]

One point that Alan was making is how does hole carding result in you getting the high paying hands (quads, royal, etc.) So even if we stipulate that you have a venue in which you can use hole carding, that may benefit you on a hand, but it doesn't cause you to get the big hands. And that begs the question of the claim to have paid taxes of $129,000.

Is the hand to hand grind, even with the alleged hole card advantage, sufficient to cause a taxable income of maybe $700,000, unless there were big hands over which even hole carding has no effect??

Otherwise, I'm with Red on this.

[OneHitWonder]

All this AP stuff requires a big bankroll or a lot of time betting a small one over and over at which point you'll still likely lose back at least the years of small gains to the casino's monster bankroll in the inevitable bad streak.

AP's think that acts and disguises are the ticket to playing around with jail sentences and a lifestyle of crime and drugs. But, if one AP sits down to play when another gets up, where's the disguise? The cards are the cards. Even the dealers notice oddball plays w/i minutes as they focus on the myriad of stuff required of them.

Hell, the casino I used to play at most always openly boasted that they have NEVER banned/barred a player for winning at card counting. No need to. Where are all of these guys making money at the casinos? Especially, when they could earn ten times the money selling their big secrets to the casinos. Nobody knows. Ask a pit boss where you play, and I bet you'll get the same response. No wonder that the "Wizards" of the world hold out their experiences of "getting kicked to curb" in business deals, and being beat up and called "fags" throughout childhood. Sometimes, little guys just are losers-cum-bullies. A freak show. Just don't try to prove/verify anything out in the real world at their "online homes".

If you have the big money to make money, there are much better (mainstream, they call it that for a reason,) returns already while you sit with captain's hat, on your sail boat. And if you're an AP/world's dumbest crook, well, the casinos/cops have already created a pretty good delusion-of-grandeur atmosphere for you guys to spill your guts in public. The only problem with encouraging such "nuttishness" is that ALL the little AP's fill their hopeless lives with "letters to Santa"

Don't kid yourself, somewhere in a basement near you a bunch of old single white guys - call them "Pinky and the Brain" - are working feverishly to perfect their dice throw, and a way to disguise it's winning everytime.

[OneHitWonder]

Unfortunately, everybody can claim to have an advantage on the Internet. And if we keep reading about claims without proof the fiction writers will take over. Sorry, but I don't want this to be a site for fiction.

[slobdinger]

Funny, but I remember reading where Shack analyzed this game some years back and strangely, there was an issue with the royal too. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if Mickey's taking credit and actually copied it from him. After all, who would care this far into the future? Psst....I certainly don't.

This is total bullshit. Argentino is a quack selling snake oil. Shack never ever seen the game until I introduced it to WoV'ers. See if you can find it in his list of video poker games on Wizard of Odds. You won't find it. I was the only person in the world that exploited this game.

[OneHitWonder]

This is total bullshit. Argentino is a quack selling snake oil. Shack never ever seen the game until I introduced it to WoV'ers. See if you can find it in his list of video poker games on Wizard of Odds. You won't find it. I was the only person in the world that exploited this game.

This is total child's play.

You guys ought to run for office. Or, at least get a room (with a fly on the wall).

[Rob.Singer]

Mickey is back yet again. What a lonely life a nickel keno player has...... But--I wonder if Shack also has a keno strategy that Mickey could dig up and re-post it?

[Alan Mendelson]

To all concerned: do me a favor, stop. We all know you both have a problem with each other but your constant back and forth does nothing to inform or help any of us with useful information.