Overcomped

[Dan Druff]

The loss of $10K-$20K is presumably over the course of reaching 150000 TCs...10 gaming days.

Should one be prepared to lose that much in one gaming day?

I recall that Rob quoted a figure close to $60K on hand needed in order to reach his daily win goal...which was a dollar amount.

If the goal is 5000 TCs, then how much should the player have on hand for that gaming day?

I don't know why you care about a gaming day, but no, you will never lose $10k playing 5x$1 9-6 Jacks or Better while earning 5000 tier credits. That would be an 80% return on the $50,000 wagered, which is highly unlikely on a relatively low-variance machine paying 99.54%.

[Dan Druff]

I don't want it backed up...but others do...so ask them what they want.

I just noted that your reluctance to provide proof without all the phony wager nonsense casts doubt.

We've seen this tactic before...it never provides any answers. You know that, so why be so difficult?

There's no reluctance.

I cannot provide written proof because no such thing exists. But there are other ways to verify it, including by common sense. If you're a member of a program like Seven Stars which offers unlimited type redemptions (hotel rooms) plus other fixed benefits worth $500-$1200 each, it's easy to rack up these guaranteed benefits by heavy usage, thus dwarfing your expected loss.

It would be like buying a yearlong buffet pass for $500, and then having people tell you that there's no way you can eat $500 worth of food there in a year.

[Dan Druff]

I'd rather just rape their table games for 6 figures a year. F that SS card!!

You're beating their table games for 6 figures per year?

If so, congrats, but I have no idea how you're doing it.

In fact, I haven't seen CET with beatable blackjack in quite some time.

[jbjb]

Social Security card???

That too.

[jbjb]

You're beating their table games for 6 figures per year?

If so, congrats, but I have no idea how you're doing it.

In fact, I haven't seen CET with beatable blackjack in quite some time.

I didn't say I was. I said "I'd rather."

Doesn't have to be card counting either.

[Alan Mendelson]

Actually, Dan, in order for everyone to agree that you are "overcomped" you would have to provide a lot of details including:

Win/loss statement
Actual accounting of the number of free hotel room nights you get
Actual accounting of other offers, benefits including cruises, airfare, gifts, shows

You might actually have received more in comps than you lost. But even if your comps-received didn't offset your losses, in the view of Caesars you might have received more in comps than a player at your level should be getting.

The meaning of the word "overcomped" is in the eye of the beholder. To some of us, your overcomped status means nothing if you did not have a profit in the casino. But for you, who needs hotel rooms for 23 nights to play in the WSOP, the casino loss is worth less than the value of the free hotel rooms. And for Caesars, you might be using more hotel rooms than they'd like for a player at your play level.

I'm still curious how you banked $1800 worth of Reward Credits without living on bread and water? I've seen you at Nobu with your son and girlfriend.

[coach belly]

I don't know why you care about a gaming day

I'm buying into your explanation of the value of the SS (Seven Stars) card.

I'm considering giving your "strategy" a shot in 2017.

I just wanted to know how much cash/casino credit on hand I would need not to bust out before reaching 5000 TCs.

If I decide to go through with it, I'll chronicle the adventure right here...complete with wager-free proof of some sort.

[jbjb]

I'm buying into your explanation of the value of the SS (Seven Stars) card.

I'm considering giving your "strategy" a shot in 2017.

I just wanted to know how much cash/casino credit on hand I would need not to bust out before reaching 5000 TCs.

If I decide to go through with it, I'll chronicle the adventure right here...complete with wager-free proof of some sort.

99.95% Pick 'Em poker at Windsor. It's $80 (Canadian) coin in per TC though.

[Dan Druff]

Actually, Dan, in order for everyone to agree that you are "overcomped" you would have to provide a lot of details including:

Win/loss statement
Actual accounting of the number of free hotel room nights you get
Actual accounting of other offers, benefits including cruises, airfare, gifts, shows

You might actually have received more in comps than you lost. But even if your comps-received didn't offset your losses, in the view of Caesars you might have received more in comps than a player at your level should be getting.

The meaning of the word "overcomped" is in the eye of the beholder. To some of us, your overcomped status means nothing if you did not have a profit in the casino. But for you, who needs hotel rooms for 23 nights to play in the WSOP, the casino loss is worth less than the value of the free hotel rooms. And for Caesars, you might be using more hotel rooms than they'd like for a player at your play level.

I'm still curious how you banked $1800 worth of Reward Credits without living on bread and water? I've seen you at Nobu with your son and girlfriend.

That visit was on the $500 yearly meal Seven Stars benefits.

I'm not going to go through the arduous process of accounting of all of the above.

It should be clear to anyone with common sense how one can be overcomped, given an unlimited benefit program like Seven Stars.

[coach belly]

Actually, Dan, in order for everyone to agree that you are "overcomped" you would have to provide a lot of details

By "everyone" you must mean yourself, because you can't speak for everyone else.

Wouldn't a conversation with a host, with you present, convince you?

[seemoreroyals]

In regards to building up comps from time to time various CET props have RC multiplier days. On our recent trip to Tahoe on Thursday we got a 15 times RC multiplier. We only played to the 2500 TC/RC level because my wife is already well past the 150,000 TC level and quite frankly there in nothing past this level that CET is offering other than recreation that is worth the risk reward IMO. Normally on that day we would have only earned a little over $25 in RC's but with the 15 times multiplier we earned close to $400 on that one day. Like Dan between the 2 of us we have close to $2000 in built up unused RC's. We are holding on to them because unless we are on a 7 star trip or at a CET property that gives us room credit without touching our RC's we normally are not willing to pay for the overpriced steakhouses. When the time is right we will find something better to use them on.

One other thing in regard to Tahoe and you probably are already aware of this Dan, you can use part of your $500 folio at the gift shop and do not have to use it all for dining. In the past 5 or 6 years we have been to just about all of the CET properties and it is amazing how much difference there is in the policies and procedures from property to property and in particular how they handle their comps. Vegas to us is by far the stingiest.

[Alan Mendelson]

By "everyone" you must mean yourself, because you can't speak for everyone else.

Wouldn't a conversation with a host, with you present, convince you?

My point is everyone has a different definition of "overcomped." Being overcomped as Caesars sees it might be the ratio of free hotel nights Dan uses to the number of nights a player at his level is expected to use.

But for me, "overcomped" is a factor of his actual casino profit or loss vs the value of the comps he receives.

So let me ask you, coach, what do you consider "overcomped" to be?

I received an email (thru my website) from a complete stranger who told me they were BANNED from a casino in Lake Tahoe because they took too many bottled waters from the VIP office there. No kidding. They had been warned not to take more than 10 bottles per day, but they persisted, and after several additional warnings they were BANNED from the casino. They were told that the casino did not allow for players to have more than EIGHT bottled waters a day. I mention this to tell you that casinos have their own "math" for how they handle players.

Dan might indeed by "overcomped" as Caesars see it if he is indeed taking 23 nights to play at the WSOP but not playing the expected amount that a casino player would play using those same number of nights. Remember that the WSOP only collects a fee for each tournament and my guess is those fees don't cover those 23 hotel room nights. And in that way Dan might indeed be overcomped.

Regarding that $500 Seven Stars dining credit: the maximum benefit would be five $100 certificates. That's a maximum of five different meals -- there is no "change" when you don't use the entire $100 certificate. So I'm still having a problem figuring out how Dan amassed $1800 in banked reward credits when he tells us he only lost "four figures" over 5 years earning Seven Stars.

[redietz]

Frankly, if I were Dan, I'd keep a lid on it. No sense sharing the wealth.

He may have had his offers reduced because someone reads these pages. That seems like a pretty clear reason CET would, as Alan says, checkmark Dan as a "problem player." Sharing information probably makes one a problem.

Alan, on the other hand, makes it seem like a player should follow some unwritten rules so as to never step on a host's toes or take more than what is "reasonable." That kind of cheerleading for not extracting every cent in value is bound to be looked upon with a smile.

[coach belly]

So let me ask you, coach, what do you consider "overcomped" to be?

If a host/hosts tell Dan on multiple occasions that he is overcomped...then he must be overcomped.

Who am I to consider anyone overcomped, or to define what overcomped means?

That's for the casino to decide, since they are the ones distributing the comps.

It's evidently an industry term, and who is any position to define their terms for them?

If Dan's not willing to dispute the casino's assessment, then why should you?

[Alan Mendelson]

Because, coach, if Dan has been able to find some loopholes to get more out of the casinos I'm all for spreading the knowledge. By the same token we should all know where Dan went too far, which he obviously did.

So to respond to redietz: yes we should all maximize our comps and offers but not to the point that we get no-mailed as Dan has.

Why take 12 bottles of water when the casino said stop at 10 and the rules said 8?

[regnis]

Actually, Dan, in order for everyone to agree that you are "overcomped" you would have to provide a lot of details including:

Win/loss statement
Actual accounting of the number of free hotel room nights you get
Actual accounting of other offers, benefits including cruises, airfare, gifts, shows

You might actually have received more in comps than you lost. But even if your comps-received didn't offset your losses, in the view of Caesars you might have received more in comps than a player at your level should be getting.

The meaning of the word "overcomped" is in the eye of the beholder. To some of us, your overcomped status means nothing if you did not have a profit in the casino. But for you, who needs hotel rooms for 23 nights to play in the WSOP, the casino loss is worth less than the value of the free hotel rooms. And for Caesars, you might be using more hotel rooms than they'd like for a player at your play level.

I'm still curious how you banked $1800 worth of Reward Credits without living on bread and water? I've seen you at Nobu with your son and girlfriend.

And 5 years of Singer's tax returns.

[coach belly]

Because, coach, if Dan has been able to find some loopholes to get more out of the casinos I'm all for spreading the knowledge. By the same token we should all know where Dan went too far, which he obviously did.

So your assumption is that Dan is withholding loopholes or not disclosing some action on his part that's gotten him flagged as "overcomped"?

The fact that he played optimally to reach 150000 TCs, then took full advantage of all of the 7Stars benefits that he could (without additional play), would not be enough for the casino to consider him overcomped?

There must be something else?

[Alan Mendelson]

I don't know if Dan used any loopholes or not. I really want to find out what mistake he made -- and obviously he made a mistake to get no-mailed. Maybe he should have stopped at 20 free nights for the WSOP and not 23? I don't know.

At first when he said he was "overcomped" I thought it meant that hosts didn't want to deal with him and they wouldn't give him anything extra. When he started this thread, in his first post, he announced he was completely no-mailed which, to tell you the truth, is very significant.

Remember that I was no-mailed by Rincon and they accused me of FRAUD when they did it. So for Dan to get no-mailed is pretty serious. Was it just that he took too many free hotel rooms along with maximizing his Seven Stars benefits? Inquiring minds want to know. There could be a lesson here for everyone.

If indeed Dan was no-mailed ONLY for maximizing his Seven Stars benefits I think that is very unfair to him.

[redietz]

The most logical reason he would be "no-mailed," if indeed he was, was that he shared how to do this publicly, thereby creating opportunities for numerous other people to do the same. These evil casinos can hold a grudge without ever fessing up as to why they did things.

Either that or the gold fishnets he wore to Cleopatra's Barge every other Tuesday. Glowed in the dark. Very tacky.

[coach belly]

If indeed Dan was no-mailed ONLY for maximizing his Seven Stars benefits I think that is very unfair to him.

Running up 150000 TCs with minimal losses, then cashing in a bunch of no-play free-stays has to trigger some kind of nasty reaction.

I've heard of folks getting their player's card disabled for running through free-play and leaving without additional play, no overnight stay involved.

No more mail...no more comps...no more account access...basically treated like a deadbeat and told to get lost.