Overcomped

[Alan Mendelson]

There is a bonus for the TIER points. There is no bonus for Reward Credits.

[Rob.Singer]

Dan, if you're so-called "overcomped" status is "confirmed & verifiable" as you wrote above, how is it you cannot simply "verify it" here?

Seems to me it would put an end to this discussion in your favor--which bringing up the issue is what it's all about, is it not? Instead, you ramble on & on & on like a screaming young J.A.P. trying to get her way, with long repetitious assertions, allegations, and creations that somehow must be making you feel better but to the rest only continue confirming how much bs you keep passing around on the subject. You wouldn't even be convincing your own shill here.

[coach belly]

There is a bonus for the TIER points. There is no bonus for Reward Credits.

Yes...you earn 5000 TCs...and 5000 RCs...plus a 10000 TC bonus.

You do that 10 times, you have 150000 TCs and 50000 RCs.

That's what Dan wrote...

I also earn $500 worth for my play through the base tier credits I run each time I earn Seven Stars.

Each time he earns 7stars...which is once per year...not each 5000 TC gaming day.

[Alan Mendelson]

Okay coach. But $500 in comps goes quickly. I'm curious how Dan has mastered the art of having so many RCs in his bank yet earns $500 a year thru play? Inquiring minds can't figure this out considering all those days he stays in Vegas... even just for the WSOP? Is he eating crackers from the gift shop?

I'd like the master of overcomped to explain, please.

[Dan Druff]

Question about RCs and earning tier points. Dan:

When you earn 5,000 tier points on your way to earn 7 Stars you also get 5,000 reward credits.

5,000 reward credits is worth $50 and not $500 as you wrote above.

Regarding being overcomped the real question is this:

Do you have a profit playing casino games? If you do you can be overcomped. If you lose money in the casino then only a true and honest accounting will determine if all those comps erase what you lost.

Being overcomped by $5,000 worth of comps is meaningless if you lost $5,001 of real money.

That's really the bottom line for everyone.

The $500 in RCs figure I provided was for the entirety of earning Seven Stars in a given year, NOT for one day of play.

I do not have a profit overall playing casino games.

However, the comps I have redeemed (in their actual value to me, assessed honestly) are FAR above both my theoretical AND actual losses.

Furthermore, being overcomped has little to do with losses versus comps redeemed. Yes, the goal is to receive more comps than you have lost. Yes, I wouldn't play if I could see the future that I would lose more than my comps would be worth. But that is all based upon luck, and you can only make decisions based upon expectation and variance, as there is no way to predict luck.

For example, if I sit at a 6-handed poker table, and I know that all 5 opponents are substantially better than me, I am making a dumb decision. Even if I luck out and win, I still made a dumb decision.

Similarly, if I sit at a 6-handed poker table where all 5 opponents are low-skill novices, then I made a great decision. If I have terrible luck and still lose, despite being far and away the best player at the table, I still made a good decision to play.

Making GOOD DECISIONS OF WHEN AND WHEN NOT TO PLAY is the hallmark of being an AP. If you consistently make such good decisions, the luck will usually average out, given enough time. If you routinely make BAD decisions of when and when not to play, you will end up a LOSER at the casino, barring incredible and unlikely luck.

If the comps I expect to redeem are far above my expected loss, but then I have horrible luck and lose more than the comps are worth, I still made the right decision to play.

We can't all be like Rob Singer, who plays for 10 years and clears a million dollars profit, despite having the mathematical odds sharply against him every time.

[Dan Druff]

Okay coach. But $500 in comps goes quickly. I'm curious how Dan has mastered the art of having so many RCs in his bank yet earns $500 a year thru play? Inquiring minds can't figure this out considering all those days he stays in Vegas... even just for the WSOP? Is he eating crackers from the gift shop?

I'd like the master of overcomped to explain, please.

I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand.

When I'm there at the WSOP, I am by myself and eat cheaply. I also get food vouchers which offset some of the cost.

When it's not WSOP time, I use some RCs for meals, but also sometimes eat off property. Also, I have $500 worth of meals (at $100 each) per year as a Seven Stars benefit, so I use those whenever I have a meal with a bill of at least $100.

And as I said, I earn a minimum of $500 RCs per year, as well as extras from promotions and stuff like that. I used to get additional food vouchers/offers before I became overcomped, which also helped me bank more RCs.

Where are you going with this? Do you not believe I have like $1800 RCs left? I can show you a screen shot if you doubt me.

[Dan Druff]

Dan, if you're so-called "overcomped" status is "confirmed & verifiable" as you wrote above, how is it you cannot simply "verify it" here?

Seems to me it would put an end to this discussion in your favor--which bringing up the issue is what it's all about, is it not? Instead, you ramble on & on & on like a screaming young J.A.P. trying to get her way, with long repetitious assertions, allegations, and creations that somehow must be making you feel better but to the rest only continue confirming how much bs you keep passing around on the subject. You wouldn't even be convincing your own shill here.

What do you want verified?

Would you care to place a wager (escrowed with a trusted third party, of course -- perhaps Alan?) that I can call a host right now with you listening on 3-way, ask if I'm overcomped, and that they'll say yes?

In fact, we can call 5 different hosts. You can choose the Vegas properties, and we will just ask for the host on duty.

Let me know when you would like to place this bet.

In fact, I can prove that I don't even qualify for a single free night based upon my play -- even at the cheapest hotel in Vegas on the cheapest night of the year. That's because I'm overcomped. I only get the free rooms based upon being Seven Stars.

[Dan Druff]

I can't speak for a lot of people, but I would sure like to know how it's done,
and I believe that Dan has explained much of how it's done.

Dan...what denomination do you play, and how many hours does it take to reach 5000 TCs?

Also, what daily bankroll is typically required to play and reach 5000 TCs?

Not looking so much for a theoretical WOV type of answer, what kind of swings have you experienced in your actual play?

There is no hocus-pocus to it.

It's also not worth it to you unless you are going to utilize most of what Seven Stars offers you.

If you're not going to take the cruise, not going to take the annual trip, and not going to stay in many CET hotels, it's not worth it to you.

Daily bankroll doesn't matter. I don't live from hand to mouth.

What matters to me is the bankroll required to reach 150,000 tier credits (including bonus).

That depends upon the machines one plays. The best machines in the western US right now are in Lake Tahoe. 99.54% JoB is the safest one, as you can do a 5-play $1 machine and the variance is lowest.

I was playing the higher variance $5 bonus poker machines in Laughlin and Rincon in 2013, and that's part of the reason I had a bad year, as I hit zero royals. I have since learned to stick to the lower variance machines,.

Using the Tahoe machines I described, it takes me about 5 hours to earn 5000 base TCs. I have to do this 10 different days in order to earn Seven Stars.

Hitting a royal is important if you don't want to lose 5 figures. This is because the royal is almost 2% of the return. If you put $500,000 coin-in through the machine, a lack of royal costs you about $10,000 right there. So if you have zero royals but average luck otherwise, you would still lose over $12,000 at JoB.

You have a 39% chance of hitting at least one royal if playing the 20,000 hands required at $5/credit. Here is where you can get burned, because that means there's a 61% chance you will fail to hit a royal, and essentially that's costing you $10k. This is what ate me in 2013.

If you do the 5-play type machines, your chance of hitting at least one royal goes way up, though I don't know the exact numbers, because that's hard to calculate (as your starting hand is the same for all 5 hands, and then deviates from there). But you have a much better shot at hitting royals this way. That's how I hit 6 royals during my March 2015 Rincon trip (and I got lucky, too).

The bottom line is that expected losses earning Seven Stars on 9-6 JoB is $2300, but even that carries a good deal of variance, so you need to be prepared to lose over $10k. Losing $20k would be pretty unlikely, but possible if you get really unlucky. Of course, some years you will win, too.

[james40]

Question about RCs and earning tier points. Dan:

When you earn 5,000 tier points on your way to earn 7 Stars you also get 5,000 reward credits.

5,000 reward credits is worth $50 and not $500 as you wrote above.

Regarding being overcomped the real question is this:

Do you have a profit playing casino games? If you do you can be overcomped. If you lose money in the casino then only a true and honest accounting will determine if all those comps erase what you lost.

Being overcomped by $5,000 worth of comps is meaningless if you lost $5,001 of real money.

That's really the bottom line for everyone.

That was the questions I asked pages ago, it was never answered. Enough with the coin-in, how much did you lose making 7 Star. $500 makes you over-comped, $5,000 is a comp wash, and $50,000 gets you a lot of sympathy. Which is it?

[coach belly]

What do you want verified?

Would you care to place a wager (escrowed with a trusted third party, of course -- perhaps Alan?)

Good Lord...talk about being difficult....

This is common tactic that only casts doubt on the veracity of your claims.

I've seen it a few times before...some braggart makes a claim...another asks for proof...the braggart offers to provide proof only as terms of a wager that he knows will never be accepted. The braggart then forever absolves himself of proving his claims.

Why act like a weasel?...because everybody else is doing it?

Why not set a new standard?...just be a straight-up guy and back up your claims without manipulating yourself into not backing them up, with these phony wagers that you know full well will never be accepted.

[Dan Druff]

Good Lord...talk about being difficult....

This is common tactic that only casts doubt on the veracity of your claims.

I've seen it a few times before...some braggart makes a claim...another asks for proof...the braggart offers to provide proof only as terms of a wager that he knows will never be accepted. The braggart then forever absolves himself of proving his claims.

Why act like a weasel?...because everybody else is doing it?

Why not set a new standard?...just be a straight-up guy and back up your claims without manipulating yourself into not backing them up, with these phony wagers that you know full well will never be accepted.

How do you want it backed up?

A signed letter from the CEO of Caesars that I'm overcomped?

Do you honestly not believe if you got on 3-way with me right now, that a host wouldn't tell me I'm overcomped?

Do you really think I'm making this up?

[james40]

Good Lord...talk about being difficult....

This is common tactic that only casts doubt on the veracity of your claims.

I've seen it a few times before...some braggart makes a claim...another asks for proof...the braggart offers to provide proof only as terms of a wager that he knows will never be accepted. The braggart then forever absolves himself of proving his claims.

Why act like a weasel?...because everybody else is doing it?

Why not set a new standard?...just be a straight-up guy and back up your claims without manipulating yourself into not backing them up, with these phony wagers that you know full well will never be accepted.

Oh they will be accepted, it's the terms that will be argued endlessly. Until finally the details are so picked apart, nobody can agree on any one part of the wager and it dies. It's been done here several times with the same player.

[Alan Mendelson]

Do you not believe I have like $1800 RCs left? I can show you a screen shot if you doubt me.

Dan I don't doubt that you have $1800 in reward credits. What I doubt now is that you play as little as you say you play.

On my last trip to Caesars I earned about $133 in comps. I still had to pay out of pocket about $162 for meals. I guess I don't eat as cheaply as you do.

[Dan Druff]

That was the questions I asked pages ago, it was never answered. Enough with the coin-in, how much did you lose making 7 Star. $500 makes you over-comped, $5,000 is a comp wash, and $50,000 gets you a lot of sympathy. Which is it?

You don't understand the term overcomped if you're asking this.

Call a host and ask what it means, and he/she will explain it to you.

I've been Seven Stars for 5 years and have lost 4 figures doing it (total).

Is that good enough?

[Dan Druff]

Dan I don't doubt that you have $1800 in reward credits. What I doubt now is that you play as little as you say you play.

On my last trip to Caesars I earned about $133 in comps. I still had to pay out of pocket about $162 for meals. I guess I don't eat as cheaply as you do.

When I'm alone, I eat very cheaply there.

I have 13,000 tier credits in 2016 right now, most of which were from that stupid bonus I earned based upon 2015 play (remember that?)

The rest was from WSOP play, which also gives you tier credits.

I can show you a screen shot if you don't believe me.

[coach belly]

Daily bankroll doesn't matter.

you need to be prepared to lose over $10k. Losing $20k would be pretty unlikely

The loss of $10K-$20K is presumably over the course of reaching 150000 TCs...10 gaming days.

Should one be prepared to lose that much in one gaming day?

I recall that Rob quoted a figure close to $60K on hand needed in order to reach his daily win goal...which was a dollar amount.

If the goal is 5000 TCs, then how much should the player have on hand for that gaming day?

[jbjb]

I'd rather just rape their table games for 6 figures a year. F that SS card!!

[james40]

You don't understand the term overcomped if you're asking this.

Call a host and ask what it means, and he/she will explain it to you.

I've been Seven Stars for 5 years and have lost 4 figures doing it (total).

Is that good enough?

Yes, thank you. I don't know about over or under comped, but 5 years of 7 Star with only a 4 figure loss is commendable. Write a book, Jean Scott is getting up there.

[james40]

I'd rather just rape their table games for 6 figures a year. F that SS card!!

Social Security card???

[coach belly]

How do you want it backed up?

Do you really think I'm making this up?

I don't want it backed up...but others do...so ask them what they want.

I just noted that your reluctance to provide proof without all the phony wager nonsense casts doubt.

We've seen this tactic before...it never provides any answers. You know that, so why be so difficult?