Overcomped

[Alan Mendelson]

I think Todd is very honest. Perhaps mistaken.

I spent a career in the TV news business questioning claims and reports. I am responsible for how the federal government changed the way it reported the unemployment statistics to show the underemployed and part time workers who really want full time jobs. My article was called "Phantom Unemployment" and it reached the desk of the President. I am responsible for how the federal government compiles the Consumer Price Index. I was the one who blasted the entire fantasy about "housing starts" when I pointed out that the government does not compile or report "housing finishes." Now, I wonder about all these claims of "advantage players."

I know that to be truly overcomped you must be getting comps and have a profit OR your comps must be greater than the value of your losses. But to prove to me that your comps are worth more than your losses you are going to have to show me a detailed ledger of your losses and the value of your comps. I challenged some mortgage bankers to show me their ledgers back in Florida in the 1980s... and the bunch of them went to federal prison.

I'm not from Missouri... but you gotta show me.

Overcomped? Because a host said so? Yet Dan says he loses money in the casino. Okay... show me the numbers.

Remember... a lot of people read this forum. Thousands of people read my website. Hundreds of thousands of people watch me on TV. I didn't get hear swallowing BS.

[james40]

I think Todd is very honest. Perhaps mistaken.

I spent a career in the TV news business questioning claims and reports. I am responsible for how the federal government changed the way it reported the unemployment statistics to show the underemployed and part time workers who really want full time jobs. My article was called "Phantom Unemployment" and it reached the desk of the President. I am responsible for how the federal government compiles the Consumer Price Index. I was the one who blasted the entire fantasy about "housing starts" when I pointed out that the government does not compile or report "housing finishes." Now, I wonder about all these claims of "advantage players."

I know that to be truly overcomped you must be getting comps and have a profit OR your comps must be greater than the value of your losses. But to prove to me that your comps are worth more than your losses you are going to have to show me a detailed ledger of your losses and the value of your comps. I challenged some mortgage bankers to show me their ledgers back in Florida in the 1980s... and the bunch of them went to federal prison.

I'm not from Missouri... but you gotta show me.

Overcomped? Because a host said so? Yet Dan says he loses money in the casino. Okay... show me the numbers.

Remember... a lot of people read this forum. Thousands of people read my website. Hundreds of thousands of people watch me on TV. I didn't get hear swallowing BS.

Come on Alan, here not hear.

I've seen exactly one person on this board provide any verifiable proof of how much he made/lost gambling. Arci did it on one half of a BS bet even though he knew the other party would not honor the other side of the bet. At least Arci showed some integrity.

Every other win/loss claim has been BS, every one. Gamblers will continuously swing between comps depending on losses (or wins), big swings on either side of the bell curve will generate more comps. If you win, they want you back, if you lose they really want you back.

Remember Watanabe and the private jet, they overcomped the shit out of him.

[Alan Mendelson]

Yep, my dictation device can't spell. It can't tell the difference between hear and here.

I would be embarrassed to provide proof of my losses.

[Dan Druff]

Alan, the answer is right in front of your face.

My claims aren't some Rob-Singer-like hocus-pocus regarding "winning" without presenting any kind of logical proof of how that's possible (or that it even happened).

I've spelled it out so many times in so many ways, and yet here you are asking for proof.

Let me try this ONE MORE TIME.

The Seven Stars program is a guaranteed benefits program, which lasts two years. That is, once you've earned it, you are entitled to repeatedly using its benefits without putting another penny into gambling at CET (for the time period you have Seven Stars).

If one earns Seven Stars via the minimum amount of play through the minimum amount of theoretical loss, it is easy to recoup that amount by repeatedly utilizing these GUARANTEED benefits over the following two years.

I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand.

You keep using the terms "overcomped" and "undercomped" as if they were invented on this forum, but they weren't. These are longtime casino terms, and your host can explain to you the true meaning of "overcomped" if you're really that curious.

It is possible (and not difficult) to become way overcomped at CET because they have the unique guaranteed benefits Seven Stars program, which no other casino has (to my knowledge). This allows you to override the longstanding casino model where your comps get cut off quickly if you use a lot of them while not playing.

My actual results of play are not relevant here, especially because CET computes comps based on theoretical, and not wins/losses. I am telling the truth in that I lost in 2013 and won in 2015, and had no appreciable play the other years. But that's all just a result of luck, and not really relevant to the discussion here.

[Alan Mendelson]

Let me be blunt. I think you are a low level 7 Stars player. You milk the program for whatever you can and outside of the program you get nothing. Some host called you "overcomped" as a euphemistic way of telling you that you just don't play enough to get anything more than what you can milk out of the 7 Stars program. And you wear that as some sort of medal.

The reality is you are a low level 7 Stars player who does in fact milk the system to your advantage in that you take whatever you can under the 7 Stars program. So good for you. And the reality is, because probably two-thirds of your tier points come from "bonuses" you actually don't play enough to get additional comps.

When I add that up it doesn't tell me you're overcomped at all, except in some "casino jargon" that you like to throw around.

The bottom line is you don't play enough to get any more comps than you can get from 7 Stars. And I don't understand why you don't see it? You're not overcomped, you're just getting what you're supposed to get: you get 7 Stars and all it has to offer, and the rest of what you get is what a player at your level is supposed to get.

When you use the description "overcomped" I hope you're not trying to tell us that you are getting any more than anyone else at your level of play should have gotten. In fact, I think you get less. You told us you avoid hosts and only hosts -- and not that 800 number you call -- can get you the extra things that a truly overcomped player would get.

By the way... call me... and I'll tell you about the "overcomp" that I'm getting. I can tell you with sincerity and honesty that it's something that no other player in the 50 year history of Caesars Palace ever got. I'm not going to post it here until it's in hand. I'm drooling for this. And that will make me overcomped. LOL

[coach belly]

But to prove to me that your comps are worth more than your losses you are going to have to show me a detailed ledger of your losses and the value of your comps.

A detailed ledger? LOL. This reminds me of those challenge bets so often made around here, that the challenger knows will never be accepted.

And the reality is, because probably two-thirds of your tier points come from "bonuses" you actually don't play enough to get additional comps.

If you are willing to stipulate that Dan played the minimum possible to reach 150000 TCs, then why would a detailed gambling ledger be required?

If 2/3 of his TCs are from the bonus, then that means he earned about 50000TCs through play.

If he's receiving 7Stars benefits for only running through enough coin to earn 50K TCs, then maybe he is overcomped compared to the typical player who earns 50K TCs.

It's likely that most of those 50K TC players don't earn all of their TCs in 5K increments.

[Alan Mendelson]

Any Seven Stars player can get the free hotel rooms Dan gets. He is not overcomped. Any Seven Stars player can get the cruises Dan gets. He is not overcomped. Any Seven Stars player gets anything in the Seven Stars program that Dan gets. He is not overcomped.

But when he asks for something not in the Seven Stars program it show up that he doesn't play enough to get it. He is underplayed for other benefits and offers.

Again some host was very diplomatic and used the euphemism "overcomped" when he could have said "but Dan, two thirds of your tier points were from bonuses and not play. You didn't earn any more comps."

Dan should continue to utilize everything he can in the Seven Stars program. And EVERY Seven Stars player should use as much of the program as they can.

Me? I don't go to Vegas for 23 nights during the WSOP.

[coach belly]

Another perspective...any player taking full advantage of 7Stars benefits after reaching that level by playing ten 5K TC sessions of FP VP is overcomped.

[regnis]

Let me be blunt. I think you are a low level 7 Stars player. You milk the program for whatever you can and outside of the program you get nothing. Some host called you "overcomped" as a euphemistic way of telling you that you just don't play enough to get anything more than what you can milk out of the 7 Stars program. And you wear that as some sort of medal.

The reality is you are a low level 7 Stars player who does in fact milk the system to your advantage in that you take whatever you can under the 7 Stars program. So good for you. And the reality is, because probably two-thirds of your tier points come from "bonuses" you actually don't play enough to get additional comps.

When I add that up it doesn't tell me you're overcomped at all, except in some "casino jargon" that you like to throw around.

The bottom line is you don't play enough to get any more comps than you can get from 7 Stars. And I don't understand why you don't see it? You're not overcomped, you're just getting what you're supposed to get: you get 7 Stars and all it has to offer, and the rest of what you get is what a player at your level is supposed to get.

When you use the description "overcomped" I hope you're not trying to tell us that you are getting any more than anyone else at your level of play should have gotten. In fact, I think you get less. You told us you avoid hosts and only hosts -- and not that 800 number you call -- can get you the extra things that a truly overcomped player would get.

By the way... call me... and I'll tell you about the "overcomp" that I'm getting. I can tell you with sincerity and honesty that it's something that no other player in the 50 year history of Caesars Palace ever got. I'm not going to post it here until it's in hand. I'm drooling for this. And that will make me overcomped. LOL

I have to agree with everything Alan said here. I also hope DD can milt the system for hotel rooms for the WSOP. But the fact is, he got what he earned but is getting very little in additional comps or offers because of lack of play. So no medals and no shame here--he is getting what he wants and deserves.

[Alan Mendelson]

Another perspective...any player taking full advantage of 7Stars benefits after reaching that level by playing ten 5K TC sessions of FP VP is overcomped.

I think Dan should be commended for getting the most out of Seven Stars with the least coin in. If he also had a profit doing it his Seven Stars should be in gold.

[RS__]

I think what's going on is dan & Alan have a different definition of overcomped.

Dan is saying he is getting more things in value compared to his losses.

Alan is asking if Dan is getting more than the 7* program offers.



Should be obvious to all that Dan is getting more back in value than value he is giving up. But also that he isn't getting anything beyond what the 7* system and regular marketing give out.

[Alan Mendelson]

No. Dan says a host told him he's overcomped. I'm saying Dan was given a euphemism for "no, you're not entitled to more."

Dan gets the Seven Stars benefits because he made Seven Stars. The Seven Stars program has rules and Dan met those rules. I don't think his low coin in qualifies for more.

Look... none of us gets all the comps we'd like.

[Dan Druff]

Alan, why do you keep redefining what "overcomped" means? Again, that is a CASINO term. It's not mine.

The reason I keep getting free hotel rooms (and other Seven Stars benefits) is because of the technicality in the program which overrides their usual considerations for comps.

So yes, I am WAY overcomped, but I am legally overcomped. I'm not tricking them or doing anything shady or outside their rules. However, I am operating to maximum benefit WITHIN their rules, to achieve an unintended amount of comps as compared to my amount of play.

That is the very definition of overcomped: Achieving an amount of comps in excess to what your play has earned.

Caesars system marks you as "overcomped" if your comp redemptions exceed the amount you've earned through play. I have been told this by MULTIPLE hosts in MULTIPLE markets, and I was even SHOWN this on their computer screen by one host who was afraid I didn't believe him.

While hosts aren't always known to tell the truth, this has been INCREDIBLY CONSISTENT over the past 4 years, and in fact I know they're telling the truth, because I can calculate it myself and determine that they are correct.

I will admit that what I'm doing isn't flashy or under-the-radar, and that's why I am freely talking about it here. But I'm definitely overcomped, and it's definitely because I am utilizing the maximum benefit from a program which I earned status by doing the absolute minimum (50k base TC earned at high-return machines).

And what of these "additional offers" that Alan chides me for failing to receive? Well, yeah, I don't get them for the most part, but I also don't have to put in the play (i.e. losses) in order to earn them. When it comes to comps-redeemed-per-dollar-wagered, I guarantee I'm WAY ahead of you and most others here, Alan.

[redietz]

That's what this comes down to -- comps earned per dollar wagered or as a ratio to theoretical.

If Dan is in the upper 1% or 2% in comps earned per dollar wagered in the CET program, then it makes sense that a casino would label that top end of the bell curve "overcomped." He is legally entitled to what he has gotten but labeled as "overcomped" -- that is, don't give the bastards beyond this standard deviation anything further or extra or beyond the stated program benefits. It probably applies to the top couple percent.

[Alan Mendelson]

Yep. I think we've reached the point where we're all saying the same thing.

Dan is utilizing every comp and offer he can from Seven Stars but his minimal coin in won't allow any additional comps that aren't already allowed under Seven Stars. So Dan you're overcomped.

Okay. So now what?

[coach belly]

So Dan you're overcomped.

Okay. So now what?

Pack the socket with gauze, go home and wait for the novocaine to wear off.

[Alan Mendelson]

As I said before I hope Dan gets his free rooms for the 2017 WSOP.