Big Casino Wins and Jackpots

[redietz]

I'm not sure how anyone could arrive at another interpretation. By Alan's interpretation, the next time a tech comes by at 4 AM and tells me they'll be servicing my bank of machines in 10 minutes, I should simply say, "NGC 14.040.2 states I can keep playing as long as I want. You can't shut it down while I'm playing."

Think that'll work?

[Alan Mendelson]

I don't think a tech is coming by to do anything but empty the cash box while you're playing.

I was not aware of this regulation until the NGC told me about it. But I do recall several years ago playing a machine at Rincon when some techs came to move around machines. They saw me playing and did not move my row of four machines. About ten years ago I was playing a progressive at Caesars and at 4 in the morning techs came to move it to another area. I didn't know they were waiting for me but they stood nearby for nearly an hour till I finished playing.

I'm really sorry that this bit of reality doesn't fit your thinking redietz.

[Alan Mendelson]

'While you are playing it" is the key phrase Alan jammed in here. That would mean after you hit the start button for a particular game, not while you are sitting there between games.

If you are sitting there between games, they can shut it down.

The average person plays 500 games an hour. This regulation simply states that you can't shut down the machine once one of those 500 hands has begun.

Nobody said they could.

So Alan, you are going to stick to your guns and say that "the laws" prevent machines from being programmed to use win goals and loss limits? Is that your argument?

Why don't you just call the NGC Enforcement Division in Carson City and argue with them, redietz? I didn't write the rules nor do I interpret them.

You have a beef with the NGC. Call them and tell them you're the boss.

[Rob.Singer]

You're looking for details that don't exist again Red. No casino in Nevada can shut down a game while a player has credits in it unless there's a malfunction, and they can't force you to cash out unless another issue exists.

[RS__]

They can absolutely 86 you. You should at least understand that, Rob, since you claim you got 86'd from MGM. And if they wanted to 86 you or back you off because you're winning, they could and would, if it had any positive impact on their (casino's) win/loss.

[Rob.Singer]

I'm not believing you can properly read RS. No one but a wife can stop anyone from playing a machine because you're winning while there's credits in it, unless a malfunction is declared.

As far as being 86'd, what's that got to do with it? MGM? I was 86'd from playing vp only at Bellagio & Harrahs LV in the mid-2000's and Silverton just a few years ago. They recently let me back in, but only if I agreed not to play higher than $2. None of the machines I played anywhere were shut down or changed as far as I know. So I'm not getting your point.

[Alan Mendelson]

RS__ what does getting 86d have to do with the question about casinos programming stops on their machines? Nothing. You are just being argumentative again.

[arcimede$]

This entire conversation is silly because casinos know as well as any intelligent person that win/loss goals do not affect the return of a machine. Only math illiterates believe that kind of nonsense. I've even posted a proof in the past. Not only are these folks math illiterate, but they can't seem to understand simple logic.

[Alan Mendelson]

This entire conversation is silly because casinos know as well as any intelligent person that win/loss goals do not affect the return of a machine. Only math illiterates believe that kind of nonsense. I've even posted a proof in the past. Not only are these folks math illiterate, but they can't seem to understand simple logic.

Wow, Arc. I wonder what redietz has to say about this? When I told him there was no such thing as a program to stop a machine he wrote:

You're going to have to quote me those laws, Alan. I've never even heard a rumor regarding such laws.

More to the point, is your argument about why machines don't employ stop loss/win goal programming really going to be that there exist gaming commission laws preventing it? We can quote you that that is why it isn't done?

You're painting yourself into a very tight corner.

[RS__]

As far as I'm concerned, the discussion is why don't casinos use the "rob singer logic" and quit when ahead. One method of doing that is by kicking a player out of the casino. But guess what -- they don't kick out losers!

I'm not believing you can properly read RS. No one but a wife can stop anyone from playing a machine because you're winning while there's credits in it, unless a malfunction is declared.

I'll be sure to remember this next time I get asked to leave while I have credits in a machine. "No, Mr. CSM, I have credits in the machine and you can't stop me from playing, only a wife can do that!" If the casino doesn't want you to play anymore, you'll be asked to leave.

As far as being 86'd, what's that got to do with it? MGM? I was 86'd from playing vp only at Bellagio & Harrahs LV in the mid-2000's and Silverton just a few years ago. They recently let me back in, but only if I agreed not to play higher than $2. None of the machines I played anywhere were shut down or changed as far as I know. So I'm not getting your point.

"86'd from playing VP" ??? Wtf does that mean. You do realize 86'ing refers to someone being trespassed from a casino, not being asked not to play VP. If you're allowed on the property, you're allowed to play. Period. I brought up your 86'ing at MGM (Bellagio is owned by MGM, you do realize that, right?), because I figured you'd understand that casinos can and do 86 players. From the way you responded, it sounds like you weren't 86'd, but perhaps asked not to play VP anymore (if that's even believable).

RS__ what does getting 86d have to do with the question about casinos programming stops on their machines? Nothing. You are just being argumentative again.

If a casino wanted to "quit when ahead", they'd ask you to leave when they were ahead on you (ie: you're losing). Of course, they'd never do that (tell you to leave because you're losing). Casino has the edge, so no reason for them to 'quit when ahead' or be worried if they're losing, assuming they have an edge on you and you aren't an AP.



As far as whether the casino COULD program a machine to turn off in the middle of a session.....I have no idea if it's legal or not, nor do I really care. I agree with arci -- it's silly.

Alan, I'm not sure what it is, but you have a way to make posts that are demonstrably wrong.

[coach belly]

If a casino wanted to "quit when ahead", they'd ask you to leave when they were ahead on you.

How many customers would the casino have left if they asked the losers to leave?

jbjb's original posit was that win goals and loss limits don't work for players,
because if they did, then the casinos would use them against the players.

The fact that casinos don't use win goals doesn't prove that those strategies can't work for individual players.

Apparently casinos do use loss limit strategies, so does that prove that loss limits work for the players?

[Alan Mendelson]

Jbjb all I want to say is that in Nevada machines cannot be programmed to shut down when they (the machines) reach a loss limit. You can continue saying whatever you like but I was challenged about the law. Anyone disagreeing with me should call the NGC.

[jbjb]

Jbjb all I want to say is that in Nevada machines cannot be programmed to shut down when they (the machines) reach a loss limit. You can continue saying whatever you like but I was challenged about the law. Anyone disagreeing with me should call the NGC.

Even if they did have one, I wouldn't use it. I'd have the edge against you so I'd ultimately grind you down to nothing. This is why you keep getting invited back. They know you'll lose.

Now go start counting cards in a casino and you'll eventually see a different result. You'll start winning consistently, get figured out that you have the edge and shown the door.

[Alan Mendelson]

Now go start counting cards in a casino and you'll eventually see a different result. You'll start winning consistently, get figured out that you have the edge and shown the door.

We're not debating your casino super powers. Redietz challenged my statement that programming stop losses was against the rules. We know you have no need for a job and your casino self employment gives you a standard of living we all envy.

[Rob.Singer]

RS, seems like you still don't get it. Bellagio was not part of MGM when I told you I was not allowed to play vp there, and the actual letter was published in Gaming Today for all the crybaby AP's like you. The managing editor certainly had fun on the phones with that one!

In the gaming industry, "86'd" means banned from a casino, a game, or games. I tire of constantly having to school you. Any wonder now why I had such a good time--and why the paper had such a good time--when my 8-yr. weekly column mocked AP's?

[RS__]

A casino can't ban you from a game.

[Alan Mendelson]

A casino can't ban you from a game.

Absolutely false. Casinos have blocked players from blackjack and allowed them to play craps and video poker. There are many instances of this. I was banned from throwing dice at MGM but not from betting.

[RS__]

So they refused your action.

[regnis]

A casino can't ban you from a game.

RS--I can't quote any law or rules or regs, but I have seen numerous people barred from playing BJ without being 86ed from the other games in the casino.

[redietz]

RS, seems like you still don't get it. Bellagio was not part of MGM when I told you I was not allowed to play vp there, and the actual letter was published in Gaming Today for all the crybaby AP's like you. The managing editor certainly had fun on the phones with that one!

In the gaming industry, "86'd" means banned from a casino, a game, or games. I tire of constantly having to school you. Any wonder now why I had such a good time--and why the paper had such a good time--when my 8-yr. weekly column mocked AP's?

I think that the phrase "86ed" doesn't really have a terribly precise meaning. Originally, if someone were "86ed," it was in reference to being trotted 80 miles out of town and made to dig their own grave (six feet under, get it?). It was in reference to an execution style whacking.

When it took on a gaming reference, it was just slang used by people who knew damn well what the original meaning was -- wink, wink.

So, in general, getting "86ed from a casino" meant getting banned from a property with extreme prejudice. While one could sloppily say one was "86ed" from playing video poker at a particular property, but was still allowed on that property, that doesn't really have much of the feel or connotation of what "86ed" really meant.