The final word on proving Dice Influencing

[Alan Mendelson]

Regnis is correct. No two tables are alike. What you do at home is practice your grip and toss. When you get to the casino you use your first throws or turns to judge the table conditions. HOPEFULLY the table conditions will be okay.

[jbjb]

What's interesting here, is guys like Alan will try to employ techniques that have never been proven to work (DI/DC, playing bad VP trying to get "lucky", etc.) to try and profit off of casinos but will not use proven techniques (card counting, HC'ing, vulturing, etc.) to accomplish this same feat.

Quit being scared of getting kicked out of these places and go for the jugular!

[jbjb]

Quit being scared of getting kicked out of these places and go for the jugular!

I forget who said this, but it was on one of the AP sites:

"If you're not being kicked out of casinos, you're doing something wrong!"

[RS__]

So these supposed DIs are throwing tens of thousands of rolls at their home setup but they aren't even verifying they can influence the dice on their own (optimal) setup? That's like someone practicing card counting on their kitchen table and not verifying they are playing with proper strategy nor verifying their actual counting is accurate.

On the premise that dice influencing is possible, "trying it" could definitely hurt you, since you could be influencing the dice in a negative way such that you expect to lose more. Just like a someone "trying" to count cards but not doing it properly -- he'll may be betting more at the wrong time, altering from basic strategy at the wrong, such that he loses even more. Not to mention, if he (the person trying to DI or CC) thinks he's playing properly but isn't and thinks he's just running bad, then he may continue to play because he thinks he has an advantage, when he otherwise wouldn't be playing.

[Alan Mendelson]

Quit being scared of getting kicked out of these places and go for the jugular!

I forget who said this, but it was on one of the AP sites:

"If you're not being kicked out of casinos, you're doing something wrong!"

MGM, NYNY and Bellagio all kicked me out of their craps pits. Care to restate your post?

[Alan Mendelson]

So these supposed DIs are throwing tens of thousands of rolls at their home setup but they aren't even verifying they can influence the dice on their own (optimal) setup? That's like someone practicing card counting on their kitchen table and not verifying they are playing with proper strategy nor verifying their actual counting is accurate.

On the premise that dice influencing is possible, "trying it" could definitely hurt you, since you could be influencing the dice in a negative way such that you expect to lose more. Just like a someone "trying" to count cards but not doing it properly -- he'll may be betting more at the wrong time, altering from basic strategy at the wrong, such that he loses even more. Not to mention, if he (the person trying to DI or CC) thinks he's playing properly but isn't and thinks he's just running bad, then he may continue to play because he thinks he has an advantage, when he otherwise wouldn't be playing.

I don't know what to say except that I've only seen three true DIs, but on this forum and the WOV and others I've seen hundreds of armchair quarterbacks.

[MisterV]

You THINK you saw three true DI's, just as you THINK you saw a shooter roll eighteen yo's in a row.

I KNOW your powers of observation and reporting are wholly suspect, unreliable, and not to be taken seriously.

So go ahead, spew more drivel.

[AxelWolf]

So these supposed DIs are throwing tens of thousands of rolls at their home setup but they aren't even verifying they can influence the dice on their own (optimal) setup? That's like someone practicing card counting on their kitchen table and not verifying they are playing with proper strategy nor verifying their actual counting is accurate.

On the premise that dice influencing is possible, "trying it" could definitely hurt you, since you could be influencing the dice in a negative way such that you expect to lose more. Just like a someone "trying" to count cards but not doing it properly -- he'll may be betting more at the wrong time, altering from basic strategy at the wrong, such that he loses even more. Not to mention, if he (the person trying to DI or CC) thinks he's playing properly but isn't and thinks he's just running bad, then he may continue to play because he thinks he has an advantage, when he otherwise wouldn't be playing.

I don't know what to say except that I've only seen three true DIs, but on this forum and the WOV and others I've seen hundreds of armchair quarterbacks.

Ya, but, you also claim to have seen 18 yos in a row.
There is no way you know if they were true DIs or not(you have no clue if they have an advantage). Just because their shot looked good and they made money doesn't mean anything. Your statement should always be, there are only 3 people who I think are DIs.

[Alan Mendelson]

You make me laugh. All I need is a shooter with a shot that looks good and makes me money. What else do you need, bozo? LOL

[RS__]

You make me laugh. All I need is a shooter with a shot that looks good and makes me money. What else do you need, bozo? LOL

Remind us, which year did you have a net win in gambling?

[MisterV]

All I need is a shooter with a shot that looks good and makes me money.

That proves nothing; random rollers can have great rolls, per the math.

What else do you need, bozo?

No other clowns are necessary, at least not until you pull your "adios" act again.

Or are you claiming that Bozo is an accomplished dice setter?

[Alan Mendelson]

You make me laugh. All I need is a shooter with a shot that looks good and makes me money. What else do you need, bozo? LOL

Remind us, which year did you have a net win in gambling?

Never have I had a net win in gambling. Never.

[Alan Mendelson]

All I need is a shooter with a shot that looks good and makes me money.

That proves nothing; random rollers can have great rolls, per the math.

What else do you need, bozo?

No other clowns are necessary, at least not until you pull your "adios" act again.

Or are you claiming that Bozo is an accomplished dice setter?

of course random rollers can have great rolls. that lady in Atlantic City was a random roller. The guy in Vegas for the consumer electronics show who held the dice for more than four hours was not only a random roller but I was told he never played craps before in his life. And that shooter who threw eighteen yos in a row also had a random throw.

Ive been at tables when I made the most money off of random rollers.

But I never LOST money with those three DIs. That makes all the difference.

[MisterV]

But I never LOST money with those three DIs. That makes all the difference.

OK, so how did your method of play adjust to the seeming realization that these guys were actual DI's?

One might assume that the light bulb went off in your noggin at some point while they were rolling: "Whoa, he's a real DI!"

At that moment, how did you respond?

Logically one would think you'd then press the hell out of your bets, as you'd believe that you're riding a +EV wave.

Or did you sit idly by and do nothing, as when the alleged eighteen yo's in a row were rolled? (In which event is the term "DI" a contraction for "Deer In [the headlights])?

[mickeycrimm]

Okay, so conditions are different in the casino. But doing an empirical study on a practice table would go a long way in establishing that the dice can be influenced. A sample space of about 5000 rolls would suffice. The rolls don't have to be done all at once either. They should only be done when the shooter is in his best form. A supposed top DI should be used, like maybe Scoblete.

[regnis]

Mick-I easily threw 500,000 trials at home on my table, and probably a lot more. Do you think that didn't give me empirical evidence? Do you really think I woke up one day and decided I was a shooter/ You guys are looking for exact numbers and percentages for each number thrown to determine an exact edge. If you have played craps, and RS should know better, once it was determined that I could avoid the 7 for lengthy periods, and that during those periods I could throw a disproportionate amount of 10s and 8s, why do I need anything more. Why do I need exact percentages. I bet the 8 and 10---duh!!!!!

Now. I don't disagree that I could have possibly optimized my bets better with that exact knowledge, but again, it is craps. There is nothing exact about it.

And don't think there weren't days where my shoulder hurt from hockey or my hand or wrist was sore that I knew immediately I couldn't throw and quickly quit. My edge was my throw--nothing more.

[mickeycrimm]

Mick-I easily threw 500,000 trials at home on my table, and probably a lot more. Do you think that didn't give me empirical evidence? Do you really think I woke up one day and decided I was a shooter/ You guys are looking for exact numbers and percentages for each number thrown to determine an exact edge. If you have played craps, and RS should know better, once it was determined that I could avoid the 7 for lengthy periods, and that during those periods I could throw a disproportionate amount of 10s and 8s, why do I need anything more. Why do I need exact percentages. I bet the 8 and 10---duh!!!!!

Now. I don't disagree that I could have possibly optimized my bets better with that exact knowledge, but again, it is craps. There is nothing exact about it.

And don't think there weren't days where my shoulder hurt from hockey or my hand or wrist was sore that I knew immediately I couldn't throw and quickly quit. My edge was my throw--nothing more.

Sure, you personally don't need to know your exact edge but that is not the point. An empirical study using a top DI and independent observers with published results would prove to everyone that dice influencing is possible. In other words, the guys that write the books should put up that kind of evidence. Why haven't they?

[regnis]

Not unlike Kewl or any of the APs, I would never have taken part in anything proving publicly that it could be done. Like the BJ players, we also used some deceptive practices from time to time as a cover.

[Alan Mendelson]

But I never LOST money with those three DIs. That makes all the difference.

OK, so how did your method of play adjust to the seeming realization that these guys were actual DI's?

One might assume that the light bulb went off in your noggin at some point while they were rolling: "Whoa, he's a real DI!"

At that moment, how did you respond?

Logically one would think you'd then press the hell out of your bets, as you'd believe that you're riding a +EV wave.

Or did you sit idly by and do nothing, as when the alleged eighteen yo's in a row were rolled? (In which event is the term "DI" a contraction for "Deer In [the headlights])?

I pressed and pressed and pressed. And collected and collected and collected.

Are you sure you have played craps?

[MisterV]

Are you sure you have played craps?

Craps?

Oh, I thought we were talking about crops.

This is the Modern Farmer site, isn't it?