2018 start

[MisterV]

When someone files a loan app as a professional gambler without any other income source going forward, no matter if he or she argues that they are an ap with big ev promised, no loan ever gets approved on that alone.

Then how do you explain the fact that KJ, an AP with no other source of income, qualified for and got a purchase money loan for a house in Las Vegas?

Maybe the bankers in sin city aren't as hidebound, fussy and short-sighted as you portray them.

Las Vegas has a long history of contrarian banking, e.g. E. Parry Thomas loaning millions to mobsters running Las Vegas casinos when no other bank would touch them.

[Alan Mendelson]

Maybe he got a non qualifying loan with a 20% down payment and didn't even have to reveal anything?

Average price of a Vegas home is about $200,000. 20% down is $40,000. He claims he won a million dollars, right?

[Alan Mendelson]

Girlfriday you are smashing the holy grail on this forum with your comments about kewlj and his claim about positive EV connected to his $8800 loss. Be ready. And again thank you.

[MisterV]

She has smashed nothing, Alan.

AP's can get purchase money loans in Las Vegas without showing any other source of income.

End of discussion.

[girlfriday]

When someone files a loan app as a professional gambler without any other income source going forward, no matter if he or she argues that they are an ap with big ev promised, no loan ever gets approved on that alone.

Then how do you explain the fact that KJ, an AP with no other source of income, qualified for and got a purchase money loan for a house in Las Vegas?

Maybe the bankers in sin city aren't as hidebound, fussy and short-sighted as you portray them.

Las Vegas has a long history of contrarian banking, e.g. E. Parry Thomas loaning millions to mobsters running Las Vegas casinos when no other bank would touch them.

I'm sure you are aware that things have tightened considerably in the home loan approval/underwriting business since 2008.

KJ the AP you mentioned: where did you get that info from? Did he write this on this forum or are you personal friends and or family? Did he identify the loan source?

Not to be negative, but what you said goes against industry policy. That's what guides my belief system. I was in Nevada and I never saw any sin city special deals, at least from my bank, that you talk about.

[coach belly]

Just in case the counselor missed the questions....

KJ the AP you mentioned: where did you get that info from? Did he write this on this forum or are you personal friends and or family? Did he identify the loan source?

[MisterV]

KJ, a member of this forum, said he got a loan to buy a home in Las Vegas.

Ask him for details, I'm sure he'd just LOVE to tell you (he's like that).

[girlfriday]

Girlfriday you are smashing the holy grail on this forum with your comments about kewlj and his claim about positive EV connected to his $8800 loss. Be ready. And again thank you.

I'm an ap myself so I'm not trying to smash anything. I thought I could offer insight on aforementioned mortgage loans having been knee deep in that business and in that city. I realize not everyone will understand, agree, or want to understand or agree. So be it.

The EV discussion is basic math theory, which I understand. It also can be construed several ways, which is where I believe the disconnect comes from. It may well create nasty arguments like I've seen a lot of here, but I'll only provide info that I know without the fighting.

[coach belly]

It may well create nasty arguments like I've seen a lot of here, but I'll only provide info that I know without the fighting.

The arguments get nasty when the APs get frustrated and start name-calling, and the discussions deteriorate from there.

[mickeycrimm]

KJ, a member of this forum, said he got a loan to buy a home in Las Vegas.

Ask him for details, I'm sure he'd just LOVE to tell you (he's like that).

He said he has gotten two loans to buy houses in Las Vegas. And I think he said he put big downs on them.

[kewlJ]

Oh boy. Alan you really are obsessed with me aren't you?

My first mortgage in 20xx, was with xxxxx. I put 40k down on a condo just off the strip that sold for 89k. It was an auction. I was in Philadelphia at the time. I bid on the internet, and when my bid was accepted, I immediately put 40k down and arranged a mortgage online, with Superior, who I just picked out of an online service. Everything was done online before I even traveled to Vegas, including downloading financial documents and electronic signatures. That mortgage was paid off in xxxx, when I sold the condo.

In 20xx, I got a mortgage from my bank, xxxxx for the home that I currently live in. I put 10% down on the home. I was prepared to put more, but it wasn't required. So, I don't know about Bank of America's policies, as per girlfriday's posts, but xxxx was happy to give me a mortgage, based on my income as an AP. The mortgage was in my name only based on my credit worthiness and income. I don't know if it made a difference but I did have 6 figures in accounts at xxxx at the time.

That mortgage was a 15 year mortgage that I paid off in early.

[mickeycrimm]

Glad to be back and see such a discussion, however flighty and off topic it may be. But I'll address everything I've seen. I was an actuary at an insurance company prior to joining B of A, so I believe I understand the math dialogue in these discussions.

When someone files a loan app as a professional gambler without any other income source going forward, no matter if he or she argues that they are an ap with big ev promised, no loan ever gets approved on that alone. To the gentleman who asserted that applying as a pro gambler is no different than anyone who files as self-employed, you are mistaken. If a self employed person shows business and income stability, then it would safely be assumed his income would continue going forward because it is a business with real revenue, meaning real income. A gambler would expect to secure a loan based on things going his or her way and not the casino's way, thereby leaving future income up to chance. That means an automatic denial. As I mentioned, a steady, real income source in addition to expected gambling income would be required in other to have any chance at securing a home loan. Those are typically tough in their own right, and for obvious reasons. One more point to remember, loan officers and underwriters are like most business people, irs auditors, and so forth. They don't believe anyone wins on a consistent basis gambling. Anyone. So that's what you're up against from the start of the process.

Now I'd like to address this issue revolving around the theory of EV. I believe we all can agree that EV represents something expected, but not certain, in the future, and it is never actual money right now. I did read about the person who said they had the best EV day in a whole, but unfortunately they list $8k at the same time. There us something to that, but in large part, it does not pass the reality check.

For instance, I believe I play blackjack with a very slight edge. Always. But if I play for 11 hours today and lose money, the +ev I went in with, even though it was injected with a dose of hope, means nothing for future sessions. I believe the person who said it was a good thing is only trying to make him/herself feel better about the loss. Yes, the person can proclaim their having hours of positive expectation as something great, but as far as future gambling sessions are concerned, the same thing could happen time and time again. +EV can in fact have a negative cash flow value attached to it. The good and positive expectation never has, had, or is meant to have any real monetary value attached. If you understood the intricacies of whole life and term insurance policies and their differences, you'd understand what I'm trying to explain.

I'll try to get to playing blackjack and some of the comments I've read here about it. My knowledge is good, but probably nowhere near some of the experts here.

KJ has made well over a million dollars in 14 years of playing blackjack. He started with a 4K bankroll and slowly built from there. He doesn't work everyday but 14 years is about 5000 days. He's had hundreds of losing days, even days where he has lost 8K or more. But he has still out run the game by well over a million dollars. He's damn good at what he does. He ramps up his bets in the big +EV situations. Short term negative variance causes a big losing day sometimes. But short term positive variance creates big winning days too. In the long run it all smothes out.

[mickeycrimm]

EV is nothing more than a wish and a hope. Drop it already.

EV built Las Vegas.

[kewlJ]

Jbjb are you really this stubborn and stupid? Do you understand that EV is not real money but a casino and a player will use EV to forecast their return? It's reallysimple: they are separate. You can't substitute EV for actual money. Now keep searching for abandoned multipliers.

Alan, you calling anybody, least jbjb stupid, is 'priceless'. Alan Mendelson, you sir are the most ignorant person on the topic of advantage play, that I have come across. I am using the true definition of ignorant, lacking knowledge or awareness. I have no doubt you are a well educated and somewhat 'book smart' man, but you are completely clueless, of almost anything having to do with advantage play. And you have proven that time and time and TIME again.

I also take exception to the trolling games that you play. I am not going to go as far as to call you a troll, but you most certainly do play games, trolling games, on this forum. It's nauseating. I am really quite sick of it.

Your games and agenda become crystal clear, when I take the time, to post in detail addressing your concerns, as I did in post #239 in this thread, and because you have no answer, you "gloss over" what you don't want to hear. You ignore it and continue on your way with your "agenda".

I am done with you Alan. I don't mean that I am going to block or ignore you. I may even respond to things you say. But I am done treating you like a reasonable person, because you are not. You are playing games. I am just not going to waste my time and effort on you. So do your thing Alan. Everything you do and post should come with twilight theme music.

[AxelWolf]

Oh boy. Alan you really are obsessed with me aren't you?

My first mortgage in 2009, was with Superior Mortgage on West Flamingo. I put 40k down on a condo just off the strip that sold for 89k. It was an auction. I was in Philadelphia at the time. I bid on the internet, and when my bid was accepted, I immediately put 40k down and arranged a mortgage online, with Superior, who I just picked out of an online service. Everything was done online before I even traveled to Vegas, including downloading financial documents and electronic signatures. That mortgage was paid off in 2012, when I sold the condo.

In 2013, I got a mortgage from my bank, Nevada State Bank for the home that I currently live in. I put 10% down on the home. I was prepared to put more, but it wasn't required. So, I don't know about Bank of America's policies, as per girlfriday's posts, but NSB was happy to give me a mortgage, based on my income as an AP. This mortgage was obtained shortly before I was married, so my spouses small social security disability income was not a consideration. The mortgage was in my name only based on my credit worthiness and income. I don't know if it made a difference but I did have 6 figures in accounts at NSB at the time.

That mortgage was a 15 year mortgage that I paid off in early 2016.

I have no idea why anyone would give that type of information out online, but what do I know?

[MisterV]

Everything you do and post should come with twilight theme music.

You mean "Twilight Zone" theme music.

[Bill Yung]

EV is nothing more than a wish and a hope. Drop it already.

EV built Las Vegas.

So did seriously threatening to beat people up? Not so different from your "hero", of a few weeks ago, who promptly turned right around and said it was all a big joke, after a bunch of people called him on it.

Fourteen years is a lot of time make shit up, get tossed off the major blackjack forums, and while away the time bickering endlessly over who said and did what to whom at the lesser ones.

And you guys want instant credibility on the internet?

[jbjb]

Jbjb are you really this stubborn and stupid? Do you understand that EV is not real money but a casino and a player will use EV to forecast their return? It's reallysimple: they are separate. You can't substitute EV for actual money. Now keep searching for abandoned multipliers.

Alan, you calling anybody, least jbjb stupid, is 'priceless'. Alan Mendelson, you sir are the most ignorant person on the topic of advantage play, that I have come across. I am using the true definition of ignorant, lacking knowledge or awareness. I have no doubt you are a well educated and somewhat 'book smart' man, but you are completely clueless, of almost anything having to do with advantage play. And you have proven that time and time and TIME again.

I also take exception to the trolling games that you play. I am not going to go as far as to call you a troll, but you most certainly do play games, trolling games, on this forum. It's nauseating. I am really quite sick of it.

Your games and agenda become crystal clear, when I take the time, to post in detail addressing your concerns, as I did in post #239 in this thread, and because you have no answer, you "gloss over" what you don't want to hear. You ignore it and continue on your way with your "agenda".

I am done with you Alan. I don't mean that I am going to block or ignore you. I may even respond to things you say. But I am done treating you like a reasonable person, because you are not. You are playing games. I am just not going to waste my time and effort on you. So do your thing Alan. Everything you do and post should come with twilight theme music.

Let him keep thinking I'm stupid.

P.S. We made $37,650 today from only $8000 in "EV" on blackjack from one of our favorite dealers.

[mickeycrimm]

I ask why stop because you've hit on a gold mine: $15 a minute or $900 an hour.

Alan, your answer here is proof that you don't have a clue about advantage plays. The game in question is a video line game with a banking feature on it. There is a cloverleaf symbol on the 5th reel. When it lands on the line there is a counter that moves from zero to 1. The cloverleaf lands on the line an average of every 36 spins. When the cloverleaf lands on the line a second time the counter moves to 2. When the cloverleaf lands on the line a third time you go into a bonus round. It's a positive play when I find the counter on 2. How did it get on 2? Some ploppie did it then walked. I only have to catch the cloverleaf one time to get the bonus. Once I catch the cloverleaf and get the bonus the counter resets to zero and the game is back in negative expectation so I cash out. I might find a dozen plays a month but it is just one of about a dozen games I exploit.

[Bill Yung]

Jbjb are you really this stubborn and stupid? Do you understand that EV is not real money but a casino and a player will use EV to forecast their return? It's reallysimple: they are separate. You can't substitute EV for actual money. Now keep searching for abandoned multipliers.

Alan, you calling anybody, least jbjb stupid, is 'priceless'. Alan Mendelson, you sir are the most ignorant person on the topic of advantage play, that I have come across. I am using the true definition of ignorant, lacking knowledge or awareness. I have no doubt you are a well educated and somewhat 'book smart' man, but you are completely clueless, of almost anything having to do with advantage play. And you have proven that time and time and TIME again.

I also take exception to the trolling games that you play. I am not going to go as far as to call you a troll, but you most certainly do play games, trolling games, on this forum. It's nauseating. I am really quite sick of it.

Your games and agenda become crystal clear, when I take the time, to post in detail addressing your concerns, as I did in post #239 in this thread, and because you have no answer, you "gloss over" what you don't want to hear. You ignore it and continue on your way with your "agenda".

I am done with you Alan. I don't mean that I am going to block or ignore you. I may even respond to things you say. But I am done treating you like a reasonable person, because you are not. You are playing games. I am just not going to waste my time and effort on you. So do your thing Alan. Everything you do and post should come with twilight theme music.

Let him keep thinking I'm stupid.

P.S. We made $37,650 today from only $8000 in "EV" on blackjack from one of our favorite dealers.

Good for you. I hope that you have a better day, tomorrow. Better than whatever you made, today. And that you post it up, again.

Big AP with money? Have that written in your epitaph or whatever. Anything to "prove" it to anyone but yourself.