2018 start

[kewlJ]

Kewlj here's how I look at it: you have two ledgers.

Ledger #1 is for your expected value of each hand you play. It includes things such as the count, comps, cash, free play, peeking at hole cards, match play and whatever tools you have to give you more when you bet.

Ledger #2 is for your actual results after each hand is played.

My position is each ledger is independent. So you might have had $10,000 of expected value on Day 6 in ledger #1, but ledger #2 will show an $8800 loss.

That's forever how I'll look at it. You won't agree and so we'll just have to disagree and move on. Good luck. And I hope that the next time you have $10,000 of EV that you actually win $20,000.

Well, this is just nonsense. It's just complete gibberish. I could play the Billy Madison clip, but that's been played too much recently.

I guess I can't be 'mad' if you really don't understand something. But what I find disappointing is that despite a complete lack of knowledge and understanding of this subject, you continue to use some predetermined (and 100% wrong) notion to try to discredit me, an agenda you have had since the day I joined this site. It's basically become a vendetta, for whatever reason.

The thing is....you have no idea what you are talking about, so just be quiet on this one, because you really look silly.

[Alan Mendelson]

I've stated my case. There's nothing left to say. I wish you the best of luck.

[Dan Druff]

I once had an interesting discussion with Alan regarding freeplay.

He insisted a few years ago that freeplay has no value, and that its value is only known once you run it and turn it into real cash.

If I recall, the discussion topic came up because we were discussing the Great Gift Wrap Up, and how I always chose to get freeplay and gas cards, because they were the best value.

Alan told me that he didn't like getting freeplay because it often lost, and he ended up with poor value from it as a result.

So I told him that the amount won/lost is inconsequential to the value of the freeplay -- that the freeplay multiplied by the expected return is its value. He didn't agree.

We had a long debate back and forth, and finally I offered him something:

I would buy all of his Caesars/Rincon freeplay (of which he had a lot at the time) for 50 cents on the dollar of real money. This would give his freeplay instant value.

Of course, he refused.

I pointed out that this meant he was acknowledging that freeplay DOES have value, as he refused to sell it for 50 cents on the dollar. So it's worth at least 50 cents for every dollar of it he has.

Then I offered to buy it for 75 cents on the dollar.

Again he refused.

So once again, this proved that Alan felt freeplay really DID have value of at least 75 cents on the dollar, and perhaps more.

I didn't continue negotiating, but you get my point.

Freeplay actually has value.

In fact, Alan, if I am in the same casino as you, I will be happy to give you 90 cents on the dollar for any freeplay you have. Let me know.

[Alan Mendelson]

Dan at 90 cents on the dollar I will sell you my free play IF that free play amount can't be converted to Visa gift cards. In the last two years I've cashed my reward points for Visa gift cards which are like cash.

If Visa cards are not available and only Shell gas cards are you have a deal and here's why: in my neighborhood the local Shell charges $3.03 for premium which I must use, but an Arco only one block away charges $2.73 for premium. I'd rather convert that free play to buy more gas at Arco than to pay more per gallon to use Shell.

The Visa cards can be used anywhere Including supermarkets and to pay my rent.

One other thing: once you reach a certain level with Red Rock and I'm sure with other Station casinos your free play points can be redeemed for cash.

[Dankyone]

Are you talking about GGWU points being convertible to Shell gift cards? What about the day to day free play offers you no doubt receive?? I’d happily pay 91 cents on the dollar any time I’m at CP for your free play.

[Alan Mendelson]

I haven't played at Caesars in a couple of months. My last free play offer was $900 almost a year ago. I have not been there for any subsequent free play offers. Frankly they are only good on selected dates.

[Dankyone]

I haven't played at Caesars in a couple of months. My last free play offer was $900 almost a year ago. I have not been there for any subsequent free play offers. Frankly they are only good on selected dates.

So, why not select those dates

[Alan Mendelson]

I haven't played at Caesars in a couple of months. My last free play offer was $900 almost a year ago. I have not been there for any subsequent free play offers. Frankly they are only good on selected dates.

So, why not select those dates

Because I have a business producing TV Shows.

[Dankyone]

Somehow I thought you had recently retired, but fair enough.

[Alan Mendelson]

Somehow I thought you had recently retired, but fair enough.

Officially I'm retired from the grind of a weekly show. But I still produce half-hour Infomercials. I'm shooting one this coming weekend. It's all +EV. LOL

[Dankyone]

That activity is in fact EV+. Good for you

[AxelWolf]

I once had an interesting discussion with Alan regarding freeplay.

He insisted a few years ago that Freeplay has no value, and that its value is only known once you run it and turn it into real cash.

If I recall, the discussion topic came up because we were discussing the Great Gift Wrap Up, and how I always chose to get free play and gas cards, because they were the best value.

Alan told me that he didn't like getting freeplay because it often lost, and he ended up with poor value from it as a result.

So I told him that the amount won/lost is inconsequential to the value of the freeplay -- that the freeplay multiplied by the expected return is its value. He didn't agree.

We had a long debate back and forth, and finally I offered him something:

I would buy all of his Caesars/Rincon freeplay (of which he had a lot at the time) for 50 cents on the dollar of real money. This would give his freeplay instant value.

Of course, he refused.

I pointed out that this meant he was acknowledging that freeplay DOES have value, as he refused to sell it for 50 cents on the dollar. So it's worth at least 50 cents for every dollar of it he has.

Then I offered to buy it for 75 cents on the dollar.

Again he refused.

So once again, this proved that Alan felt freeplay really DID have value of at least 75 cents on the dollar, and perhaps more.

I didn't continue negotiating, but you get my point.

Freeplay actually has value.

In fact, Alan, if I am in the same casino as you, I will be happy to give you 90 cents on the dollar for any freeplay you have. Let me know.

PLEASE DON'T OFFER 90% on free play. That messes up the going rate AP's can buy it for.

Alan is the kind of guy that would sell his free play for 90% on the dollar and then use that money to go play video poker.

[AxelWolf]

Are you talking about GGWU points being convertible to Shell gift cards? What about the day to day free play offers you no doubt receive?? I’d happily pay 91 cents on the dollar any time I’m at CP for your free play.

Please stop bidding on it(especially in public.) it's not worth driving the price down for less than $80 in value.

I don't think Alan would even be willing to sell it to someone he doesn't know for an extra 1% anyways.

Everyone knows the casinos gaff the free play to return far less of the actual face value (around 68% if you are lucky).

[kewlJ]

this is what LarryS wrote about kewlj 6 months ago on gamblersglen:......

more posts written by LarryS about KewlJ in 2017:.....

Nice try Johno/Junketking. This is Johno reminding me of the things Larry has said about me in the hopes that I will also call for Larry's banning. First, that's not my call. That's Dan's call. Second, why would things said on another site, be an issue or reason for banning here. (that sounds like something from Wizard World). Larry has behaved fairly normal here and Dan stated that as long as he does, he is welcome here. That sounds about right to me.

Here was your mistake, Johno. If you believe Larry, will eventually be the Larry of old, disruptive, nasty and trolling, you should have just waited for that to happen. Then Dan would have solved the problem. That is still a strong possibility in my mind. There would have been no need for all this stupid stuff.

AND in the unlikely event (in my opinion) that Larry continues to behave and contribute in a mostly constructive or at least acceptable manner, that that would be a "win" too. Sort of a successful rehabilitation. Basically a win / win. Either way, the problem would have solved itself, without all this craziness. All you had to do was show a little patience and let the problem (and Dan) solve itself.

[kewlJ]

Everyone knows the casinos gaff the free play to return far less of the actual face value (around 68% if you are lucky).

You can't even say this with a straight face. But it does sound like a ZenKinG conspiracy theory. Perhaps he is having an influence on you.

[LarryS]

the dude on gamblers glen, johno/sapper/carlo/junket king......wrote some vulger things about jews and gays...... not some but volumes. But thanks KJ for keeping things in perspective, i appreciate it.

his petty little games dont seem to work.

[Dankyone]

Are you talking about GGWU points being convertible to Shell gift cards? What about the day to day free play offers you no doubt receive?? I’d happily pay 91 cents on the dollar any time I’m at CP for your free play.

Please stop bidding on it(especially in public.) it's not worth driving the price down for less than $80 in value.

I don't think Alan would even be willing to sell it to someone he doesn't know for an extra 1% anyways.

Everyone knows the casinos gaff the free play to return far less of the actual face value (around 68% if you are lucky).

LOL. Understood. But Alan would recognize me if he saw me.

[kewlJ]

Are you talking about GGWU points being convertible to Shell gift cards? What about the day to day free play offers you no doubt receive?? I’d happily pay 91 cents on the dollar any time I’m at CP for your free play.

Please stop bidding on it(especially in public.) it's not worth driving the price down for less than $80 in value.

I don't think Alan would even be willing to sell it to someone he doesn't know for an extra 1% anyways.

Everyone knows the casinos gaff the free play to return far less of the actual face value (around 68% if you are lucky).

LOL. Understood. But Alan would recognize me if he saw me.

If we are being honest, fair value for free play is probably about 90%. I know the AP's don't like that because they want to get more value.....that is their job as an AP.

@ 90%, it is still +EV, but may not be worth the time and effort depending on amount. I am not going to buy $50 free play @ 90%, but I would probably buy $2000 free play @ 90%.

[MaxPen]

Please stop bidding on it(especially in public.) it's not worth driving the price down for less than $80 in value.

I don't think Alan would even be willing to sell it to someone he doesn't know for an extra 1% anyways.

Everyone knows the casinos gaff the free play to return far less of the actual face value (around 68% if you are lucky).

LOL. Understood. But Alan would recognize me if he saw me.

If we are being honest, fair value for free play is probably about 90%. I know the AP's don't like that because they want to get more value.....that is their job as an AP.

@ 90%, it is still +EV, but may not be worth the time and effort depending on amount. I am not going to buy $50 free play @ 90%, but I would probably buy $2000 free play @ 90%.

How much would you pay for EV?

[Dankyone]

LOL. Understood. But Alan would recognize me if he saw me.

If we are being honest, fair value for free play is probably about 90%. I know the AP's don't like that because they want to get more value.....that is their job as an AP.

@ 90%, it is still +EV, but may not be worth the time and effort depending on amount. I am not going to buy $50 free play @ 90%, but I would probably buy $2000 free play @ 90%.

How much would you pay for EV?

I would pay 90% all day, and more for large amounts.