El Cortez automatic shuffle machine cheating

[kewlJ]

Kewl--give me a heads up if any action is going to be taken so I can dump my Shuffle Master stock.

I suspect you are saying this sarcastically. But just to be clear, Shufflemaster is not the target. They will claim this all occurs after the machine leaves them. And maybe that is the case. Or maybe there is a wink and a nod and/or backdoor channels involved. Either way they are protected.

Also, Monet talked about a big payday. There is no big payday involved either. Whoever brings a challenge or is the face of a challenge will have a hard time showing any real damages. Yeah, you can claim you lost x amount of dollars. How do you prove that.

The goal would be for gaming to officially issue a ruling that this can't continue.....just as they did in the Mindplay case. It is only at that point (after such a ruling) that if any casino chose to continue with this practice, they could face significant fines. And let's be clear what significant even means. The fines wouldn't be enough that it would endanger a casinos continued operation, just enough that if they weight the benefit vs cost of this particular action, they would decide it is not beneficial to do so. But it all starts with an initial ruling by gaming that this is against the rules. Until such a ruling, it is sort of a free roll for a casino that decides to do so.

Really the similarities to this and the Mindplay case are striking.

[kewlJ]

Kewl--give me a heads

on another note....like I haven't heard variations of these words before.

[Moses]

Not all of us are arseholes like you and we wish to "give back" so that we don't lie on our deathbeds rueing a pointless lifelong pursuit of money..
Interesting qoute sent in Monet's direction.

BTW, who is in charge of apostrophe location on this site?

Anyway, hell yes, the primary reason I started playing blackjack is because of the sudden urge to "give back." Ironic, in my lifetime, at one time or another I've been ridiculed for being poor and then years later for being rich. I landed somewhere in the middle in the Entitlement capitol of the world.

Funny, when I'm on my deathbed. The same people telling me I'm all about money now will be fighting over what's left then. I probably won't give much of a funck. What a dumb assed qoute! Obviously, one with entitlement issues.

Monet, it's rare I answer my phone. But when I do? I don't say "Hello" I say "How much"?

[regnis]

Kewl--give me a heads

on another note....like I haven't heard variations of these words before.

LOL---I'm not a homophobe but that is one area in which I have zero interest. NOT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

But the money angle on your end is having enough to go to Shuffle Master and/or the Casinos and have them pay for your silence.

As to the stock, I was serious as any publicity like this could hurt the stock.

[coach belly]

Coach Belly: Is it you?

Yes it is me, it's great to hear from you again Moses...I can't believe you're still alive or not in prison.

But it wasn't me posting anything on BJTF.

I can help with the VCT cliff notes too...tewlj is mentally ill, an admitted and proven liar, and teller of fairy tales...nothing he writes should be believed.

Coach belly, who on this site is one of those anti-AP guys, always trying to discredit and pick apart AP's, is consumed with so much hate that he goes on the blackjack site mentioned, where he apparently has an account and participates very infrequently, just so he can post a link to this site in the hopes of getting spiderman banned.

Besides highlighting just how obsessed coach belly is, just think about that. He posted a link to this site on a blackjack AP site.

The tewl claims that he is forced to create sock puppets. Did someone force him to start this thread by writing all about spiderman as though he was not spiderman himself?

No deceit coach belly.

Yeah right.

[kewlJ]

Coach belly with his usual positive contribution. Never anything positive or beneficial to others. Just trolling and attacks.

So just out of curiosity, Do you two, moses and coach belly, really know each other from many years ago, or are you just "funning" us?

If so, it will be interesting to see how long the "niceties" continue when coach belly realized how moses supports himself and that moses is one of those AP's that coach belly and crew don't even believe exist.

Also just want to throw this disclosure out there: moses is not a friend or supporter of mine. As a matter of fact just 2 days ago on another site, among some unflattering things he mentioned that he "never really cared for me". So anyone thinking I am stacking the deck with AP friends and supporters...Nope.

[coach belly]

Coach belly with his usual positive contribution. Never anything positive or beneficial to others.

When you totally fabricate a story, accusing me of something that I did not do, should my response be positive?

BTW...what is positive or beneficial in the lies that you posted about me?

[mickeycrimm]

Having a different username on another site is not using a sockpuppet. Having two different usernames on one site is using a sockpuppet. Ask Rob.

[mickeycrimm]

Coach belly with his usual positive contribution. Never anything positive or beneficial to others.

When you totally fabricate a story, accusing me of something that I did not do, should my response be positive?

BTW...what is positive or beneficial in the lies that you posted about me?

We can now add "snitch" to Belly's resume.

[coach belly]

Having a different username on another site is not using a sockpuppet. Having two different usernames on one site is using a sockpuppet. Ask Rob.

Or we could ask slobdinger.

Here's what Wikipedia says...

A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception.

The term now includes other misleading uses of online identities, such as those created to praise, defend or support a person or organization,[2] to manipulate public opinion,[3] or to circumvent a suspension or ban from a website.

Do you think tewlj didn't understand what a sock puppet is, when he admitted to using them more than once?

The few times I am forced to post as a sock

[mickeycrimm]

Belly, you should ask your fuck buddy, rob, about sock puppets. He's the expert at it. Funny, you never questioned him about it but here you are all over kj about it. How come the sudden interest about sock puppets when you never asked rob about his use of them?

[Moses]

Yes it is me, it's great to hear from you again Moses...I can't believe you're still alive or not in prison..

O my gosh! Well, how the hell are you? You know it's ironic. Coach and I lost touch after my senior year. Then we got together some 25 years later. Those were his exact words.

Yes, I've wondered who might be putting a gun to KJs head when he posts or starts a thread. I think it's Sir Normcelot and this is one big conspiracy.

But, I dunno, is KJ really riding sidesaddle on a donkey to the El C? I truly hope he saves all of us poor bastards. God knows we need help.

I'm far more subtle than KJ. Before I begin play, I usually just stand up on the table and shout "I can whup any two pit bosses in this joint." So far? So good!

No deceit coach belly. Spiderman never hid who he was. He went out of his way to be transparent. All the members knew and welcomed him. Even those involved in the blowup years ago.

Personally, I think Norm will be bigger than your spiteful little ass. We'll see.

Ahem! I will take that bet.

So just out of curiosity, Do you two, moses and coach belly, really know each other from many years ago, or are you just "funning" us?.

Once a coach. Always a coach.

If so, it will be interesting to see how long the "niceties" continue when coach belly realized how moses supports himself and that moses is one of those AP's that coach belly and crew don't even believe exist.

Coach always taught us that victory does not come without hard work. Hell, I didn't know he meant blackjack. I thought he was talking bball and the hot little point guard on the girls team I took to prom.

Also just want to throw this disclosure out there: moses is not a friend or supporter of mine. As a matter of fact just 2 days ago on another site, among some unflattering things he mentioned that he "never really cared for me". So anyone thinking I am stacking the deck with AP friends and supporters...Nope.

Here is my issue with you KJ. You're like the player that was always talking to the press and saying things to fire up the other team. The objective was to win the game. Not fight fans afterward walking out to the team bus.

In blackjack, our opponent wins by forfeit. And there IS no tomorrow. So would you please stop pissing them off? It's not all about you.

[AxelWolf]

O my gosh! Well, how the hell are you? You know it's ironic. Coach and I lost touch after my senior year. Then we got together some 25 years later. Those were his exact words.

Yes, I've wondered who might be putting a gun to KJs head when he posts or starts a thread. I think it's Sir Normcelot and this is one big conspiracy.

But, I dunno, is KJ really riding sidesaddle on a donkey to the El C? I truly hope he saves all of us poor bastards. God knows we need help.

I'm far more subtle than KJ. Before I begin play, I usually just stand up on the table and shout "I can whup any two pit bosses in this joint." So far? So good!


Ahem! I will take that bet.

So just out of curiosity, Do you two, moses and coach belly, really know each other from many years ago, or are you just "funning" us?.

Once a coach. Always a coach.

If so, it will be interesting to see how long the "niceties" continue when coach belly realized how moses supports himself and that moses is one of those AP's that coach belly and crew don't even believe exist.

Coach always taught us that victory does not come without hard work. Hell, I didn't know he meant blackjack. I thought he was talking bball and the hot little point guard on the girls team I took to prom.

Also just want to throw this disclosure out there: moses is not a friend or supporter of mine. As a matter of fact just 2 days ago on another site, among some unflattering things he mentioned that he "never really cared for me". So anyone thinking I am stacking the deck with AP friends and supporters...Nope.

Here is my issue with you KJ. You're like the player that was always talking to the press and saying things to fire up the other team. The objective was to win the game. Not fight fans afterward walking out to the team bus.

In blackjack, our opponent wins by forfeit. And there IS no tomorrow. So would you please stop pissing them off? It's not all about you.

Moses, are you a Vegas resident or a frequent player/visitor of LV?
Are you one of them BJ guys who has never meet or never will meet anyone that knows anyone else but claim you know and work with many AP's?

Can you shed some light on Mr.BO? Not the real Mr.BO, perhaps it is, not sure, because he disappeared once people started asking too many questions. Its hard to say since there are so many people willing to make their own sock puppets while finding ways to justify them. Once a sockpuppet deceiver always a sockpuppet deceiver IMO. It's like crack....a slippery slope and addiction once you start in the first place.

Any chance at having lunch, dinner or drinks with me or one of the other known supposed AP's?

[kewlJ]

Moses, are you a Vegas resident or a frequent player/visitor of LV?
Are you one of them BJ guys who has never meet or never will meet anyone that knows anyone else but claim you know and work with many AP's?

Can you shed some light on Mr.BO? Not the real Mr.BO, perhaps it is, not sure, because he disappeared once people started asking too many questions. Its hard to say since there are so many people willing to make their own sock puppets while finding ways to justify them. Once a sockpuppet deceiver always a sockpuppet deceiver IMO. It's like crack....a slippery slope and addiction once you start in the first place.

Any chance at having lunch, dinner or drinks with me or one of the other known supposed AP's?

Oh my....looks like fellow AP Axel is coming after me, trying to dig up dirt. I guess this accidentally outing a play that some AP were executing has the "wolves" coming after me. I guess I am out of the club. How does the saying go...."with friends like these...."

[monet]

Moses, are you a Vegas resident or a frequent player/visitor of LV?
Are you one of them BJ guys who has never meet or never will meet anyone that knows anyone else but claim you know and work with many AP's?

Can you shed some light on Mr.BO? Not the real Mr.BO, perhaps it is, not sure, because he disappeared once people started asking too many questions. Its hard to say since there are so many people willing to make their own sock puppets while finding ways to justify them. Once a sockpuppet deceiver always a sockpuppet deceiver IMO. It's like crack....a slippery slope and addiction once you start in the first place.

Any chance at having lunch, dinner or drinks with me or one of the other known supposed AP's?

Oh my....looks like fellow AP Axel is coming after me, trying to dig up dirt. I guess this accidentally outing a play that some AP were executing has the "wolves" coming after me. I guess I am out of the club. How does the saying go...."with friends like these...."

I wouldn't worry too much about it kewlJ.

What do we already know about AxelWolf?

1. Alcoholic Drunk

2. 100lbs soaking wet... MAYBE!

3. Willing to meet up and associate with anyone from online.

4. States that he only went broke a few times since his AP lifestyle but I have it on good authority it is many, many, many times over.

5. States that he is the Leader of the Crews. Perhaps now but it is well known he was more of a manager for the most part from another guy who had/has all the cash.

6. Hangs out with Pals like RS, Mission146, BBB, Wiz, Djatc and others who are very loyal for the time being. Loyalty is funny when the money runs out.

7. Claims not to AP much anymore. Why? Most likely because his face is burnt out in too many places and age and alcohol catch up with you eventually. He claims he pulls the strings more so as The Backer.

8. When he first met ZK he asked him if he would rather have a backer and make a percentage instead of risking his 50k bankroll? ZK was warming up to the idea but in my mind I have always thought why on earth would you give up 75% or whatever of yourself. I would rather play smaller and make all the profit rather than share it. You could go down either road and be highly successful though.

9. When he was drunk he went on a brag/rant about how he paid 80k cash for his place/condo... like he did something!

10. Associates/Associated with WoN and people like WoN all the time... make no mistake.

11. Bonus...

AxelWolf loves to bet with his known associates and/or friends. Not only does he love to Hustle but is willing to beat his own people out of money... that is pretty sick. They had this Private Poker game around the Super Bowl Sunday where they honored a member of their AP crew by playing poker together and getting drunk. So that is how they honor their pal... they play a poker game and take money from one another... get the picture of how this lifestyle is?? You should see this crew get together and bicker about who is going to pay for pizza because who ate more or who didn't get a slice or who didn't want pizza to begin with. Remember now, these are the guys APing for a living making 6 figures a year.

[mickeycrimm]

Moses, are you a Vegas resident or a frequent player/visitor of LV?
Are you one of them BJ guys who has never meet or never will meet anyone that knows anyone else but claim you know and work with many AP's?

Can you shed some light on Mr.BO? Not the real Mr.BO, perhaps it is, not sure, because he disappeared once people started asking too many questions. Its hard to say since there are so many people willing to make their own sock puppets while finding ways to justify them. Once a sockpuppet deceiver always a sockpuppet deceiver IMO. It's like crack....a slippery slope and addiction once you start in the first place.

Any chance at having lunch, dinner or drinks with me or one of the other known supposed AP's?

Oh my....looks like fellow AP Axel is coming after me, trying to dig up dirt. I guess this accidentally outing a play that some AP were executing has the "wolves" coming after me. I guess I am out of the club. How does the saying go...."with friends like these...."

I wouldn't worry too much about it kewlJ.

What do we already know about AxelWolf?

1. Alcoholic Drunk

2. 100lbs soaking wet... MAYBE!

3. Willing to meet up and associate with anyone from online.

4. States that he only went broke a few times since his AP lifestyle but I have it on good authority it is many, many, many times over.

5. States that he is the Leader of the Crews. Perhaps now but it is well known he was more of a manager for the most part from another guy who had/has all the cash.

6. Hangs out with Pals like RS, Mission146, BBB, Wiz, Djatc and others who are very loyal for the time being. Loyalty is funny when the money runs out.

7. Claims not to AP much anymore. Why? Most likely because his face is burnt out in too many places and age and alcohol catch up with you eventually. He claims he pulls the strings more so as The Backer.

8. When he first met ZK he asked him if he would rather have a backer and make a percentage instead of risking his 50k bankroll? ZK was warming up to the idea but in my mind I have always thought why on earth would you give up 75% or whatever of yourself. I would rather play smaller and make all the profit rather than share it. You could go down either road and be highly successful though.

9. When he was drunk he went on a brag/rant about how he paid 80k cash for his place/condo... like he did something!

10. Associates/Associated with WoN and people like WoN all the time... make no mistake.

11. Bonus...

AxelWolf loves to bet with his known associates and/or friends. Not only does he love to Hustle but is willing to beat his own people out of money... that is pretty sick. They had this Private Poker game around the Super Bowl Sunday where they honored a member of their AP crew by playing poker together and getting drunk. So that is how they honor their pal... they play a poker game and take money from one another... get the picture of how this lifestyle is?? You should see this crew get together and bicker about who is going to pay for pizza because who ate more or who didn't get a slice or who didn't want pizza to begin with. Remember now, these are the guys APing for a living making 6 figures a year.

They wouldn't want to get in a drinking contest/poker game with me. I'll drink them all unconscience and win every hand after that.

[monet]

LOL MC... but you would have to fall off the Wagon to do so. I would be willing to bet in your drinking days you could easily do such.

[mickeycrimm]

LOL MC... but you would have to fall off the Wagon to do so. I would be willing to bet in your drinking days you could easily do such.

My old watering hole is singing the blues that I quit drinking. I would easily go through a liter of whiskey an evening. Plus all the money I spent buying drinks for my broke ass working stiff friends. I told them I quit working for others when I figured out I didn't have to work 40 hours a week to be broke.

[Moses]

Having a different username on another site is not using a sockpuppet. Having two different usernames on one site is using a sockpuppet. Ask Rob.

In the words of Mary Tyler Moore. Oh Rob!

Singer? Do you sing? Lead song. I was trolling along - on moonlight bay. I'm just kidding. You're a hoot!

Mickey: Fantastic signature. I borrowed it and rendered one of our politcal experts speechless...for the first time in history.

We can now add "snitch" to Belly's resume.

Hmmm. I believe coach prefers "snatch"?

Moses, are you a Vegas resident or a frequent player/visitor of LV?
Are you one of them BJ guys who has never meet or never will meet anyone that knows anyone else but claim you know and work with many AP's?
Can you shed some light on Mr.BO? Not the real Mr.BO, perhaps it is, not sure, because he disappeared once people started asking too many questions. Its hard to say since there are so many people willing to make their own sock puppets while finding ways to justify them. Once a sockpuppet deceiver always a sockpuppet deceiver IMO. It's like crack....a slippery slope and addiction once you start in the first place.
Any chance at having lunch, dinner or drinks with me or one of the other known supposed AP's?

Hello AxelWolf: I've met two other APs. They were good guys. When you say Mr. BO, do you mean Bosox? Helluva good guy IMO. We've had opposing viewpoints. But worked it out. I've been accused of a sockpuppet myself which wasn't really the case. Happy to explain if you wish. Wait! Are you saying Bosox is KJ? That would be a shocker.

I work my butt off and take what they give me.

I'm not from Vegas but I have family that lives in Vegas. I'm within a daze drive. lol I think the most difficult thing about being an AP is you can't tell folks in the real world what you do. They gasp, don't believe you, and end up asking you to watch their dog when they go out of town. They think we don't have a job. Hell, we have one of the toughest jobs possible. So I tend to keep people at arms length.

KJ wrote an excellent thread Zenmaster Flash the Real Story which helped me a great deal to understand the confusion and deception that went/goes on at BJTF. For that, he has my respect.

You should see this crew get together and bicker about who is going to pay for pizza because who ate more or who didn't get a slice or who didn't want pizza to begin with. Remember now, these are the guys APing for a living making 6 figures a year.

Funny thing about money. There is one guy that has a couple mil but won't leave a tip. IF he ever picked up a tab, I'd run for cover in fear the world was coming to an end. Another guy is always broke because he gives his money away as fast as it comes in. All out of generousity.

The best story is a guy comes up to Skip. Says he's broke and hungry around 5pm. Skip gives him a $20 and a free buffet coupon. The guy comes up to Skip around 9pm and wants another $20 and says he's hungry. SKip asks why. The guy says well the buffet is closed and I lost the $20. Skip replies, "that was 4 fuckin hours ago. If you're really that damn stupid you're just fa-fa-fucked" in life. Buffet closed? Game Over! I thought we were all going to split a gut.

I never accused tewlj of using sock puppets, I asked him if he did that and he admitted to doing it more than once.

C'mon KJ. How many times did you get to Norm? Think about his recent claim(s) of ignorance. Here is your chance to make him look just how stupid and you look just how smart. What do you have lose?

[Moses]

This is because your idea of "Good" is far less than my idea. It really doesn't matter. This group of people that I am talking about are very rare... they basically live a selfless life. It is very difficult to run into this type of person in America or the Modern World. These people are untainted in a way that they live to make others lives around them better before their own needs or wants. I guess the best way to illustrate this type of person is to say they are a King but when you go to visit the King and you see his thrown it is always empty. You find this King in the fields helping his people plow the fields so to speak. I think that is the best way that I can illustrate this type of person. They also seem to be very quick to forgive and Forget... Forgetting is the real forgiving. You can't really forgive someone unless you forget what they have done. I am only stating that if you are not in this special group than you are just at the bottom scum sucking like the rest of us no matter how much you have or what you have done or are doing in life.

Excellent words from Monet:

I think you just described Jesus. lol

I've been very fortunate to have two of those people cross my life's path. One was my best friend since high school. He was a great athlete. But a car accident took the use of his legs. I was with him just about 30 minutes to an hour before. I played the scenario out in my mind a million times wishing I could have done something different to prevent. But his words not mine "Moses, it was the best thing that ever happened to me." Not once in all these years have I ever heard him utter the words, why me?

The other is my lady friend who hates that term. She is upper management in residential facility healthcare. She could care less about the money or all the corporate BS. No one cares more about the health and well being of the residents (patients) more than her. Her boss is far higher than the President of the corporation. Countless times she will stay with a resident into the night. Somehow she seems to know that night is their last one here.