Kewlj yes over the long term you can't beat a negative expectation game whether it's 8/5 Bonus or craps or roulette. But there are people who win. These winners didn't beat the game but they won money at the game.

Rob has not beaten -EV video poker but he has won money at -EV video poker.

You need to understand the difference. This is really about the difference in wording.

You're right, Rob would lose it all back if not for his win goals.