Question for APs

[Bill Yung]

Who can't handle the truth? And who are you to decide that? Why put yourself in that spot, a slippery slope to nowhere?.

Dan, how much longer do we have to put up with this retarded idiot?

Mickey, why not go back to your thread about the pictures of empty shit-hole casinos, with TablePlay and Regnis? Let the remainder of us "gamblers" have some clean fun.

Say, this place is sort of full of flies: boz boz boz boz; mo mo mo mo net; Mr v v v v v v; mi mi mi mi mi mi ckey; re re re re re dietz; ke ke ke ke stone... . Now where's that swatter?

[regnis]

No apologies bill. I like to see mickeys pictures of casinos.

[mickeycrimm]

Who can't handle the truth? And who are you to decide that? Why put yourself in that spot, a slippery slope to nowhere?.

Dan, how much longer do we have to put up with this retarded idiot?

Mickey, why not go back to your thread about the pictures of empty shit-hole casinos, with TablePlay and Regnis? Let the remainder of us "gamblers" have some clean fun.

Say, this place is sort of full of flies: boz boz boz boz; mo mo mo mo net; Mr v v v v v v; mi mi mi mi mi mi ckey; re re re re re dietz; ke ke ke ke stone... . Now where's that swatter?

Dan, how much longer do we have to put up with this retarded idiot?

[Bill Yung]

Dan, how much longer do we have to put up with this retarded idiot?

Mickey, why not go back to your thread about the pictures of empty shit-hole casinos, with TablePlay and Regnis? Let the remainder of us "gamblers" have some clean fun.

Say, this place is sort of full of flies: boz boz boz boz; mo mo mo mo net; Mr v v v v v v; mi mi mi mi mi mi ckey; re re re re re dietz; ke ke ke ke stone... . Now where's that swatter?

Dan, how much longer do we have to put up with this retarded idiot?

You're okay Regnis. I enjoy all of your posts.

I was surprised to see you call Keystone an asshole, though. It's not who you are.

[Bill Yung]

That's different than not saying anything to spare someone's feelings who "can't handle the truth."

Who can't handle the truth? And who are you to decide that? Why put yourself in that spot, a slippery slope to nowhere?.

Okay. I will give an example.

These 3 young guys are sitting in the sportsbook a couple of weeks ago bullying everyone around them. The one old gent (probably 70) that I know is always wearing his Red Sox hat and never bothers anyone. The AL playoffs were on and this kid was talking about who should be MVP. My understanding is that particular player wasn't even playing. The team he played on was already eliminated. All the Red Sox guy said was "you must not follow baseball very much." This kid jumped out of his chair and beat the soup out of the guy. Ambulance had to come and take him out on a stretcher.

THAT'S an example of someone who can't handle the truth and a guy who would have been better served by keeping quiet. Understand I'm not saying it's right. Nothing could be more fucked up IMO. But YOU asked for an example.

Eerily reminiscent of that vile and naked psychotic online meltdown by KJ, so many months ago. He flew into a visibly vicious rage over how he was going to "mutilate and dismember" anyone who wanted to meet up in some alley. Really scary stuff. Full-blown crazy.

The day after Coach took him up on the offer, comes KJ to say it was all a big joke. Well, overnight, the forum lost about half of its current members, and limped, for months, until LarryS showed up, and it pulled itself out of the dumpster. Dan had to remove the conversation.

And you wonder where KJ gets remarks such as how crazy it might be for Alan to call the FBI on him. Or gun-crazy Mickey.

[kewlJ]

Eerily reminiscent of that vile and naked psychotic online meltdown by KJ, so many months ago. He flew into a visibly vicious rage over how he was going to "mutilate and dismember" anyone who wanted to meet up in some alley. Really scary stuff. Full-blown crazy.

The day after Coach took him up on the offer, comes KJ to say it was all a big joke. Well, overnight, the forum lost about half of its current members, and limped, for months, until LarryS showed up, and it pulled itself out of the dumpster. Dan had to remove the conversation.

And you wonder where KJ gets remarks such as how crazy it might be for Alan to call the FBI on him. Or gun-crazy Mickey.

Yeah, THAT was some scary stuff. KJ recovering from heart surgery was going to fly across country to kick someone's ass. MrV saw through that in about 3 seconds. Why couldn't you? I am sure you did, but just want to play stupid.

So can you please list the forum members....half of the current members that we "lost" overnight due to that dangerous threat?

And now, I am guessing Alan has disappeared again, pretending to feel threatened because MaxPen says he saw Alan at a casino. LOL. What a fucked up site.

[redietz]

Bill, seriously, has it occurred to you that maybe simply keeping a journal would make more sense? I mean, this is a gambling forum.

Hell, if you keep your lamentations to yourself, I bet we could put together a collection to help pay for some of your previous casino beatings.

[Bill Yung]

What a fucked up site.

And that's your problem. You say that but keep showing up. You take us seriously but we don't take you seriously. Does it make any sense now? In other words, how to twist everything around to suit KJ. It can be done, I suppose, but not in the company of the likes of Crimm and Redietz.

Say, if you have a poor or simple counting system, and play 6 and 8 -deck games, wouldn't your edge be around 1/2 a percent? Allowing for ties, and whatnot, a hundred thousand (cough,) hands a years would generate only about $40,000 with $100 bets?

A best-case scenario? Is this the reason that you never or can't talk about the numbers?

[Bill Yung]

Oh, maybe it's a trick question.

[kewlJ]

Say, if you have a poor or simple counting system, and play 6 and 8 -deck games, wouldn't your edge be around 1/2 a percent? Allowing for ties, and whatnot, a hundred thousand (cough,) hands a years would generate only about $40,000 with $100 bets?

A best-case scenario? Is this the reason that you never or can't talk about the numbers?

You want to talk about numbers? Fine. My Max bet is not $100. I use many different spreads depending on game and tolerance level of casino at various times. My max bets range from $300 to $800, but I keep most below $500 because that is a key threshold level. And the average of all these max bets would be somewhere around $400 to $450, I would guess. I could figure it out but no real reason to.

I don't play many 8 deck games unless there is something special about that game that entices me to. Six deck games, average (75%) penetration spreading 1-16 ($25-$400) would indeed probably be about a half percent advantage for a play all approach. But I don't play all. I aggressively exit (wong out) of negative counts. This alone significantly increases advantage. Still under 1%, but closer to .75%.

And then I track and jump to a second table, when I can. This means I see and play at least 60-70% more max bet opportunities per 100 rounds that I play, when compared to a play-all approach. This is going to bump up that advantage about 50%, which would push it over 1% total (.75 x 150%).

So on 6 deck games that I can track a second table I am about a 1.2% advantage and if I can only play one table, but wong out aggressively, I am under 1%, somewhere in the neighborhood of .75% advantage. Add it all together and my 6 deck play is just about 1% advantage. And that is pretty good for card counting today. Works for me.

All you are doing is proving what you don't know. Doesn't stop you from talking though does it? Anything else that you have no clue what you are talking about, but still want to talk about anyway?

[Bill Yung]

All I am doing is asking you for some numbers. Was there something wrong with my numbers?

No longer are you playing the simple counting game of "showing your spread once", and leaving. That bit about a tell in lowering your bet.

$500 bets don't draw any attention? Doubling and splitting, etc, that amount doesn't attract any attention? Not buying in doesn't attract any attention? Jumping from table to table to make those bets doesn't attract any attention? Aren't most blackjack tables nearly empty most of the time in Vegas?

Say, how often do you see another card counter? Ever see another one like you? Why is that?

You want us to believe that you attract no attention, but the casinos would have to be blind not to see you, and stupid not to throw you out.

In any event, how do you know that you have even those edges? How do you really know?

[Bill Yung]

Oh, btw, I'm not impressed with your numbers and approximations. How long have you been at this, the same spiel?

[Bill Yung]

Yeah, THAT was some scary stuff. KJ recovering from heart surgery was going to fly across country to kick someone's ass. MrV saw through that in about 3 seconds. Why couldn't you? I am sure you did, but just want to play stupid.

MrV could no more see into your head than any of the rest of us. What's in there has nothing to do with what you claimed about your heart valve. Btw, why should anyone believe that either.

[Bill Yung]

Bill, seriously, has it occurred to you that maybe simply keeping a journal would make more sense? I mean, this is a gambling forum.

Hell, if you keep your lamentations to yourself, I bet we could put together a collection to help pay for some of your previous casino beatings.

Nice way to make light of something truly bizarre, there, Redietz.

[kewlJ]

No longer are you playing the simple counting game of "showing your spread once", and leaving. That bit about a tell in lowering your bet.

That is correct. I show my spread once when playing shoe games. A couple times playing double deck.

$500 bets don't draw any attention? Doubling and splitting, etc, that amount doesn't attract any attention?

Didn't I just cover this? (as well as a number of times previously). $500 is a key threshold. As is $1000. Also $100 for lower limit players. Wagers at these thresholds draw more attention than wagers just below these threshold. So you are better off staying just below such a threshold. And if you are going to go through such a threshold, then make it worthwhile and go several hundred above.

Not buying in doesn't attract any attention? Jumping from table to table to make those bets doesn't attract any attention?

That is correct. Not buying in eliminates a players first interaction with pit. If you get lucky, you can get in and out without ever interacting with pit. I am not jumping from table to table repeatedly. I make one jump per session, if I am able to track a second table. Players move to the next table all the time. Nothing unusual.

Aren't most blackjack tables nearly empty most of the time in Vegas?

Only on the strip.

Say, how often do you see another card counter? Ever see another one like you? Why is that?

I see another counter every day. We share a condo. If you are talking at the tables, I would say maybe once a week I see some kind of counter. Maybe once a month a serious counter, playing a reasonably strong game.

Have I ever seen one like me? You mean as handsome as me? No. If you mean playing the style I play, no, I play a fairly unique style, taking things I have learned from many other players and adding my own little twists.

In any event, how do you know that you have even those edges? How do you really know?

Simulations Bill. Card counters rely heavily on computer simulations for expectation, win rate, RoR ect.

[Bill Yung]

If you never buy in, then that just means that you aren't losing. Which eliminates any casinos requirement to even keep track of your winnings. Or, are you claiming that they don't keep track of you photographically?

A casino doesn't know the (small) difference between, say, $450 and $500? How might a bet of $750 appear? More like $500 or more like $1,000? Voodoo science. If anything, such irregular bets are another red flag. How many players make such irregular bets over say $100? From my limited experience, 99 out of a hundred players play the same $10 or $15 dollars, the table minimum.

Yes, simulations, of course, or casino math books. Have you entered your precise strategies and adjustments into any simulator? Are there any such simulators on the market that take into account every little thing you do? You didn't really answer this question at all, and in terms of your own, admittedly, odd twists.

How many casinos aren't on the strip(s)? How many casinos would you have to go to in a day just to show your spread a few times? How on earth to play 100,000 hands a year? How many shoes is that? Around 16 shoes a day? And, you play every hand?

Yeah, it's unusual for a blackjack player to look at (to count) other players' cards, at one table, let alone the player who watches also another table. You have to look, right, to count, and, not up into a mirror on the ceiling? What are the probabilities that another table will be worth switching to? Players don't jump from table to table. The full tables tend to stay full, which means that you can't butt into one at will, either.

No, I think that it's very uncommon for one card counter to run into another who isn't just playing around, or trying to learn to count, and even more so now, with all of the casino automatic counter-measures. Even the regular players come to, within a few hours, or days, know who is counting. No big secret, for sure. Of course there are no counters like you, because what you are doing doesn't make any sense.

[Rob.Singer]

Bill, seriously, has it occurred to you that maybe simply keeping a journal would make more sense? I mean, this is a gambling forum.

Hell, if you keep your lamentations to yourself, I bet we could put together a collection to help pay for some of your previous casino beatings.

Nice way to make light of something truly bizarre, there, Redietz.

It's corn Bill. He doesn't realize how weird he is.

[Alan Mendelson]

Question for kewlj: when you bring chips to the table approximately what percentage of the time are you asked for your players card? I suspect that you are asked for your card close to 100% of the time. And for that reason alone I think the pit notices you every time you play.

[kewlJ]

Question for kewlj: when you bring chips to the table approximately what percentage of the time are you asked for your players card? I suspect that you are asked for your card close to 100% of the time. And for that reason alone I think the pit notices you every time you play.

Maybe 20-25% of the time. And when they do, I say something like I don't have it with me and only have a few minutes anyway.

You know this entering the game drawing minimal attention doesn't happen by accident. It's not like I walk up to the table an plop down 2 handfuls of chips on the felt. Yeah, that would have a pit critter running over. I take a seat (sometimes even stand for the first round or so) and place a single $25 chip in the circle. I have 3 or 4 more chips in my hand and a few more in my front pocket.

The object is to convey without words, through body language, that you aren't going to be there long. That way even if the pit sees you, they don't want to bother opening up a record, only to have you disappear in 2-3 rounds. They just don't. I actually view it like this: On those rare occasions that someone does ask me for a card, and especially asks a second time or is not satisfied when I blow them off, I probably failed to send that message that I was trying to send. It just doesn't happen very often.

If anything, pit might come over at some point after noticing me and ask the dealer what amount of chips I brought to the table. In most cases the dealer doesn't even know because chips where in my hand first few rounds. Even though pit is not asking me, I usually give them a number...something small like $125 or $150. Remember we are talking about a $25 minimum table so that is nothing. That would be like someone walking up to a $5 table with $20 worth of chips.

[Bill Yung]

I usually give them a number...something small like $125 or $150. Remember we are talking about a $25 minimum table so that is nothing. That would be like someone walking up to a $5 table with $20 worth of chips.

What the hell kind of baloney is this guy peddling?