II’ve never had a discussion with anyone about biggest hits on freeplay so can’t say.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
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II’ve never had a discussion with anyone about biggest hits on freeplay so can’t say.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
A dozen times in recent days you have opinioned that Gambling is lame. So naturally you have spent the last 6 years on a gambling forum. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
What do you care what people think? Seriously. Back when I was in Philly, I frequented a bar (straight sports bar) that had a regular group of working folks come by on a friday happy hour. One of the guys, in his 40's at the time, owned a porn shop in center city Philly, near the convention center. The kind of place that sold magazine and sex toys up from, but in the back had booths were people would watch movies and do what not.
Most people would think kind of a sleezy business. But it was just a business. He was a businessman, paid taxes, lived in a very nice house in a very nice, upscale community in New Jersey with his wife and 2 kids that were in private schools. He was somewhat religious, want to synagogue regularly. Involved in little league. I remember he was once selling us girl scout cookies for his daughter. He could care less about people judging him. He was a normal guy running a business. Happened to be a sex store or whatever you call it.
Advantage players are pretty much the same. When done right, even at a modest level like I do, we are just sort of self-employed people, no different than any other self-employed people. If there are people out there that have a need to judge and look down, that is their issue, not ours.
Take the freeplay out of the question. I didn't ask about freeplay. Surely you'd remember these things. I remember the one personj I've known/been acqainted with that hit something that big.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeycrimmII’ve never had a discussion with anyone about biggest hits on freeplay so can’t say.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
I may know a high-end slot player who shares bankrolls to target big mhb's .. and he may have hit 100k and i wouldn't know. But just that random 100k dropping out of the sky? Seems like you don't remember it ever having happened which doesn't mean you weren't told and forgot.. but.. people can draw their own conclusions about likeliehoods.
I dunno what to tell you bro. Once you leave gambling circles and go into the normal straight world where your associates and peers are professionals of some sorts - gambling tends to be looked down on more than not. ESPECIALLY amongst women. Go look at a serious list of 'undesirable traits for partners' .. it will definitely have gambing on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJA dozen times in recent days you have opinioned that Gambling is lame. So naturally you have spent the last 6 years on a gambling forum. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
What do you care what people think? Seriously. Back when I was in Philly, I frequented a bar (straight sports bar) that had a regular group of working folks come by on a friday happy hour. One of the guys, in his 40's at the time, owned a porn shop in center city Philly, near the convention center. The kind of place that sold magazine and sex toys up from, but in the back had booths were people would watch movies and do what not.
Most people would think kind of a sleezy business. But it was just a business. He was a businessman, paid taxes, lived in a very nice house in a very nice, upscale community in New Jersey with his wife and 2 kids that were in private schools. He was somewhat religious, want to synagogue regularly. Involved in little league. I remember he was once selling us girl scout cookies for his daughter. He could care less about people judging him. He was a normal guy running a business. Happened to be a sex store or whatever you call it.
Advantage players are pretty much the same. When done right, even at a modest level like I do, we are just sort of self-employed people, no different than any other self-employed people. If there are people out there that have a need to judge and look down, that is their issue, not ours.
I care what successful professional people think because those are the closest to my peers if I don't stay in that gamblin' life. Sure there are handful of nerdy poker geek girls and I'm pretty sure more than one has had eyes for me but honestly i don't find it an attractive trait in women. Maybe if I wanted to be deep in that life til I died but I really prefer to more or less put it behind me. Sitting at a table for hours waiting for cards .. or occupying your brain constantly with the running count .. just sucks relative to other options I have.
Could be. I don't know. I don't spend my life trying to impress women, nor do I live somewhere where gambling for a living might be looked down on. Here in Vegas I have never found that to be the case. I have told people, doctors that I see, attorneys that I work with, relators that have given me a mortgage and never had anyone bat an eye.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
I did go to a high school reunion a while back in Florida and I really didn't go into it wanting it known what I did, but that is basically what reunions are and once you tell people you live in Las Vegas, it kind of came out. I guess I felt like a few people might be being judgmental, but mostly there was just curiosity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdog
Meh. Maybe in LV where 2/3s of all mother are prostitutes or dancers they don't look down on it. j/kQuote:
Originally Posted by kewlJCould be. I don't know. I don't spend my life trying to impress women, nor do I live somewhere where gambling for a living might be looked down on. Here in Vegas I have never found that to be the case. I have told people, doctors that I see, attorneys that I work with, relators that have given me a mortgage and never had anyone bat an eye.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
I did go to a high school reunion a while back in Florida and I really didn't go into it wanting it known what I did, but that is basically what reunions are and once you tell people you live in Las Vegas, it kind of came out. I guess I felt like a few people might be being judgmental, but mostly there was just curiosity.
People who want $ from you don't care. Women who want a partner do care. lol. We all know that you find gambling to be the coolest thing ever. I found/find it interesting and still do but I'm not interested in pursuing it. That is the case with many things.
Also I suspect our peers are distinctly different. My gf is an appelate attorney arguing a case next couple of weeks in a quite important court. She tolerates me for different reasons but most of her peers wouldn't give me much of a chance if they were out on the market.
Reunions are all hens trying to figure me out. cluck cluck clucking amongst themselves. All asking you some variation of the same question because they remember me from well from HS but I just disappeared entirely from that crowd once I left HS. Thats how it is with most women. They love to judge or they want your money. One of the 2.
I am really quite perplexed by this. Should I be looking down on Mickeycrimm, Axelwolf, Zenking and people like Munchkin that I admire because the make a living gambling? Should I look down on Dan Druff because he is "a nerdy poker player"? Weird ! I don't even look down on Redietz for being a tout. I do look down on his because he told us he was something else all these year. People just making a living gambling. Not hurting anyone. No worse than most other things people do.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
And the "contributes nothing to society" argument just in no way works. If you earn money legally, pay taxes, buy groceries and gas and anything else that contributes to the economy and keeping people working, you contribute to society just the same if your income comes from gambling as if you are an Attorney (MrV) or doctor, CEO of a company or whatever.
Maybe that is just me.
Jesus dude. Yes there are some prostitute females in Vegas. And some show girls ect, more than other cities, which all cities have them.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
But try getting away from the strip a bit, maybe Summerlin, or parts of Henderson or even Northwest. where newer homes are being built and over-built. . Most females are what you call normal females. Mothers, that work "normal jobs", some professional. Big healthcare industry here. Lot of nurses and even doctors.
I am sure you have been to Vegas during your AP 6 month period, and didn't you play poker? so probably involved with that. And I think you recently mentioned a trip here with a GF or something, but jeez, sure seems like your view of Las Vegas is almost something from the movies or something.
I don't know about the females you hang with but YOU acctinQ seem to be the judgemental one caring about what people do and think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyAnd that's why tewlj wants me banned.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrimReaper
He is a pathological liar, incapable of posting honestly, and the enemy of the truth.
No, I'm not talking about any special promotion. There are many such places, and the amounts you will generate is all over the map depending on the casino. They are also casinos that do a combination of both coin-in and losses; there are casinos that do either/or. IE X amount of coin in will get you X amount, or X amount of losses will get you X amount, or X amount of coin in plus X amount of losses with get you X amount.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyIs that a standard offer, or a special promotion?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Regarding standard freeplay offers, can you estimate what total wager would be required to generate $1million in freeplay? For this exercise, let's assume the offers are competitive among the various casinos and their affiliated properties.
Young Mendelson recently wrote of a 2-day trip to GVR, where his total wager was approximately $200K. How much FP can he expect to be offered from that total wager?
And things are always changing, one month it could be one thing, and suddenly they change things.
I have no clue what it would take to generate 1 million in free play from one location, I have never attempted such a thing; even if possible, there are just too many things that can go wrong. Imagine giving up $300,000 in EV expecting to get a million back in free play, only to get 86ed.
There's usually a cap that will be automatically generated; anything above that would probably be on a case-by-case basis, determined by an executive host.
Green Valley Ranch has never been super good regarding high amounts of free play. I have not put much time in there attempting to generate free play.
It's hard to say what Mendoson GVR will get since there are too many different factors, such as his previous play, what types of games he played, how much he won or lost, and what their cap is.
There's usually a sweet spot that will earn you the maximum auto-generated free play offers while giving up the least amount on the machines in the least amount of time.
Bingo!! And that amount is different for all different places and when you think you have it figured out, it all of the sudden changes. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
When I stopped or severely cut down my mailer/VP play just after my partner passed, the way it worked was you hit a big coin-in, whatever you thought was that sweet spot and it generated an amount of free play for about 6 months. The amount might drop after two months and drop again after 4, but you got something for 6 months at minimum, just playing your FP playthrough, no further coin-in. So you could figure and count on what your return would be from that single coin-in.
Now last year, I picked just a couple properties that used to give good FP and tried to revive that model. But the model had changed. I hit them with a big coin-in and got a decent FP for the first month, but because I only picked up the FP, the offers immediately dropped or were cutoff all together. I didn't get 6 months worth of offers. To continue getting the high amount, I would have needed to hit more coin-in each time I picked up FP, and that would make the play not +EV of if you could figure out a way to give just enough, to keep offers at that level, it could be slightly +Ev, but not enough to make it worthwhile like just a decades ago.
Nothing lasts forever I guess. But I still think it was all the multi-carding that ruined a good play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDawg
Will you stipulate that APs, who are primarily working the mail (for instance, darkoz), would know the value of the for X in your examples above?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
If you (AW) were to run FP through once, what percentage of the FP would you expect to convert to a cashable ticket?
I would expect that running several millions of dollars of FP through a machine would return an amount that's very close to the RTP for whatever game was played. Is that a reasonable assumption?
Are you able to estimate how much coin-in would be required to generate several millions of dollars in FP? Not necessary to cover every permutation, just base your estimate on scenarios that you are familiar with....
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Belly, you do KNOW that a player learns this through trial and error right? You put in a certain coin-in and it generates so much FP. Next cycle you try a different amount, maybe twice as much and it basically generates the same. So you conclude, no sense in going higher than the initial amount. You try that a couple different ways and you figure an amount that is that sweet spot to generate an optimal amount. But that is ONLY for that location. You have to do so over and over for each location. So there is no singular answer.
Now I keep being asked this same question. First I have never given much thought to how much FP I ever had until yesterday. And that is why my initial response was hundreds of thousands of dollars, but thinking about it and the 35-40 mailers we received, I amended to a higher amount of a couple million. But really that isn't right either. Not every mailer was at the top of the cycle each month, so the amount would have been some lower.
BUT whatever that amount, a million, million and a half in Free play, no way I can know what it took to generate that. And you talk about it like it was a million or two million in one time, generated in one sitting. Some might have been generated at XX casino which uses this formula or gives xx amount for a certain coin-in another at a different casino using a completely dis-similar formula of amount for the same coin-in.
So no way for me to know looking back. And to know in the moment, you would need to keep very detailed records for like the 10 years we did this, and I just didn't do that. That would take as much time as playing the damn play.
Maybe dark oz keeps those kind of records and can give you an answer. maybe Axelwolf can. I didn't keep that kind of records. I saw no benefit from doing so. and anything I said now would be a complete guestimate, and I see no sense in that either.
Pretty hard to talk convincingly and consistently about something you've only read about in vague posts online.
Oh stop it! do you know how stupid that shit is that you guys continually post? Do you really think I spent 20 years of my life learning everything I could learn about card counting and the other supplemental stuff I do, so I can fool 8 people on a forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by smurgerburger
Just grow up dude. You are repeating Singer/Mdawg shit and just making yourself look as idiotic as they are.
No I didn't, I asked about total wager over the 8 year period that you wrote about.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Your story is changing again...Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
But we can examine whatever number your story-telling wheel lands on...even $2M will work just fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Sure there is, that's just basic bookkeeping.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
What kind of AP doesn't know how to calculate how much they earned?
You didn't or can't keep track several millions of dollars of machine play over 8 years?
You must have had multi-millions of dollars in wagers to generate several millions in FP.
That would be pretty significant to someone who was only making $100K per year via their primary game.
In the end, you always go right back to trolling.
I notice you don't grill mickeycrimm like this...like he is on trial, because mickey won't give you the time of day.
No other AP's share much of what they do and wouldn't answer you grilling them like this.
And I am not going to continue to do so either. It always comes back to coach belly playing games.
I don't need to grill mickey, he's genuine. I ask him a question and he gives a reasonable and consistent answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
You keep a spreadsheet to audit MDawg's play, but no records or clear recollection of your own millions-of-dollars Freeplay adventures? LOL
You always talk yourself into a corner, and then collapse and curl up in a ball, crying that you can't deal with questions.
What's your next move...blocking me or leaving the forum?
I give you a straight answer. Same as acct and other trolls. YOU just don't want to hear it and won't accept it, so you twist what I say and lie and ask a million more questions like I am on trial and obligated to answer you.
My next move will be what mickey and every other real AP does and has done on every forum you have ever been on, and that is to ignore your trolling ass.
You consider "There's no way to know" and "I don't remember" straight answers?Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
LOL...OK.
If you generated several millions of dollars in Freeplay offers, then you must have wagered multi-millions of dollars in machine play to generate those offers.
And if you ran several millions of dollars in Freeplay through, then you must have cashed out millions after converting 90% of that FP to cash.
Are you denying any of that?
Or are you so ashamed of having done it, that you don't want to explain the math?
If there is no way for me to know or I don't remember....absolutely.
You can't seem to get it through your head that I am NOT on trial. I am an AP that share some of what I do.....what I decide I want to share. NOT you. And if at anytime you or someone else asks something I don't want to answer for whatever reason, then I don't have to answer.
That said, I try to answer any questions about what I have said. But I am not going to play your fucking troll games, you long-running troll.
Nobody thinks you are on trial, and you're not required to answer questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
But when others ignore your questions about their claims, you call them liars.
So what does that say about you, when you duck questions about your own claims?
You claimed to have played several millions of dollars in Freeplay over 8 years.
That's not possible without generating those offers.
The math will explain what coin-in was required to generate those offers.
If you played several millions of dollars in Freeplay through, then you would have cashed out for millions.
The math will explain how it was possible to cash out for that much.
But suddenly, you're no longer interested in explaining the math behind AP.
You also claim that you do not know how much was wagered, how much was lost, and how much you earned from the play.
You know exactly how much you earned from BJ for each of the last 20 years, but have no recollection, and no way to know how much you earned from the mail play?
THAT is not how AP works, THAT is not how life works...you're obviously lying again.
lol. Keep it real, guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJI am really quite perplexed by this. Should I be looking down on Mickeycrimm, Axelwolf, Zenking and people like Munchkin that I admire because the make a living gambling? Should I look down on Dan Druff because he is "a nerdy poker player"? Weird ! I don't even look down on Redietz for being a tout. I do look down on his because he told us he was something else all these year. People just making a living gambling. Not hurting anyone. No worse than most other things people do.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
And the "contributes nothing to society" argument just in no way works. If you earn money legally, pay taxes, buy groceries and gas and anything else that contributes to the economy and keeping people working, you contribute to society just the same if your income comes from gambling as if you are an Attorney (MrV) or doctor, CEO of a company or whatever.
Maybe that is just me.
Professional gamblers are about the money and don't give a shit about my opinion. Or they respect my opinion but understand reality. It is what it is. shrug
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
So funny. It is clear you are looking for a fight and want me to just sit here and point out who you are. Whatever - feel like you've won this battle. I find people like you fascinating because it is so far removed from where I am that I have a hard time understanding how a guy like you can exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJJesus dude. Yes there are some prostitute females in Vegas. And some show girls ect, more than other cities, which all cities have them.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
But try getting away from the strip a bit, maybe Summerlin, or parts of Henderson or even Northwest. where newer homes are being built and over-built. . Most females are what you call normal females. Mothers, that work "normal jobs", some professional. Big healthcare industry here. Lot of nurses and even doctors.
I am sure you have been to Vegas during your AP 6 month period, and didn't you play poker? so probably involved with that. And I think you recently mentioned a trip here with a GF or something, but jeez, sure seems like your view of Las Vegas is almost something from the movies or something.
I don't know about the females you hang with but YOU acctinQ seem to be the judgemental one caring about what people do and think.
Did you not see where I finished my joke with "j/k". Do you not know what that means?
I think smurger is on to something about you intentionally misunderstanding. I just thought he was thinking too highly of you but didn't give it that much thought.
There are hospitals in every city btw. lol.
I care because I don't want to be limited signficantly from a big portion of smart educated careered women. I can't show some cool Tournament Hendon Mob page. I just have tons of lol stories about hardcore gambling degenerates. Educated women like that are smart. Piercing. There are various other issues at play here which I'm not going to insert into the conversation.
Anyway man yea gambling is so cool and interest and we're james bond and you average woman who is disturbed by my multi-carding should just fuck off !
Honest, she needs to be some form of a degenerate - basically. Or need your money. Dating is a market. What you both have to offer. Whats what being a gambler leads to - some form of a degenerate woman or a broke one who needs you for your $$.
there are a couple fair points here so I will answer BEST I CAN.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyNobody thinks you are on trial, and you're not required to answer questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
But when others ignore your questions about their claims, you call them liars.
So what does that say about you, when you duck questions about your own claims?
You claimed to have played several millions of dollars in Freeplay over 8 years.
That's not possible without generating those offers.
The math will explain what coin-in was required to generate those offers.
If you played several millions of dollars in Freeplay through, then you would have cashed out for millions.
The math will explain how it was possible to cash out for that much.
But suddenly, you're no longer interested in explaining the math behind AP.
You also claim that you do not know how much was wagered, how much was lost, and how much you earned from the play.
You know exactly how much you earned from BJ for each of the last 20 years, but have no recollection, and no way to know how much you earned from the mail play?
THAT is not how AP works, THAT is not how life works...you're obviously lying again.
First lets move that number back to 1.5 million. And that isn't me changing the story. As I explained roughly off the top of my head figuring the number of mailers we received each month and the amounts of the offers, I said 2 million. But all mailers and offers weren't at the top of the cycle or highest amount every month. So lets say 1.5 million. I think that is fair, probably not exact, maybe not even close but I think it would be somewhat close.
So yes you can ask how much of that 1.5 million was cashed out. Whatever it was and I don't have the answer, but whatever it was, does not mean that was profit. There was a loss on the initial coin in to get that 1.5. and if you are looking at the whole 8 years, that would be a good amount. Maybe half? I don't know.
So lets guesstimate the math if it is important to you. I don't like doing that but here goes"
We cash out 1.5 million, lets say @ 90% That is low but I already told you I always knew my parter had leaks in his game.
So we cash out 1.35 million. cost 800k to get that. Profit 550k over 8 years. And that is divide by the two of us. Now you are talking 275k profit each. And that isn't far off. I have always said that I averaged about 75-80K from blackjack for those years and another 20-25k from my share of our mailer VP machine play.
Puts it right there, ballpark of what I claimed. I just don't like all this guesstimation. And I don't have the records for that.
Which brings me to the second thing you said about how I kept pretty detailed records for my blackjack but not as much for the VP/mailer play.
Absolutely correct! I am primarily a card counter. THAT is what I did in AC as I learned how and what to do. THAT is what I moved to Vegas to do and be. I didn't move to Vegas to play VP and the mailer game. The only reason I got into that at all was an AP friend convinced me that not doing so in Vegas where casinos were almost fighting over VP players at the time giving good offers, was like leaving money on the table. So I did a little supplementary, and when my partner moved to Vegas a year after me, it was a perfect scenario. Something for him to do and us both make a little supplemental money while I did what I came to Vegas to do.....play blackjack
So no I didn't have the same passion about that nor keep the detailed records. That we were making some extra (supplemental) money was fine. Like I said record keeping can really bog you down, depending on how much you get into it. You can easily spend more time record keeping than playing. And that includes blackjack.
there is an old rule of thumb with blackjack card counting AP, that whatever time you actually spend at the tables playing, you will spend the same between scouting and moving between games and record-keeping. There is some value in record keeping, but it is easy to over do it and not get much value from it. Several times over the years I have said, you know what, I don't need all this and simplified my record keeping.
But as always, I am pretty sure this wont satisfy you.
Nope, not looking for a fight at all. Nor do I care about these troll battles. Just seems from multiple comments you seem to have a view of Las Vegas that is very similar to how it is portrayed in old movies.Quote:
Originally Posted by accountinquestion
A lot of people that don't live here don't really understand all there is to Las Vegas. Thers is the strip and downtown. THAT is what everyone knows. And the immediate surrounding areas to those two especially on the east side, are some of the bad areas like all cities have. But there are some really nice areas as well, suburban type areas and settings, where people live what you think of as normal lives. Kids and schools and the whole works. Most people don't think of that and most people that come to Vegas don't see any of that. They see the strip and downtown Fremont street and think that is Las Vegas.
Do you know most locals that live here, almost never even go near the strip
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Druff
This retard is a closeted homosexual.
I am not going to divulge any names, but nowadays, there are lots of people out there doing it(I'll get to that later) many whom I've never met, and I probably never will. There 100s of people doing it nowadays.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyWill you stipulate that APs, who are primarily working the mail (for instance, darkoz), would know the value of the for X in your examples above?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
If you (AW) were to run FP through once, what percentage of the FP would you expect to convert to a cashable ticket?
I would expect that running several millions of dollars of FP through a machine would return an amount that's very close to the RTP for whatever game was played. Is that a reasonable assumption?
Are you able to estimate how much coin-in would be required to generate several millions of dollars in FP? Not necessary to cover every permutation, just base your estimate on scenarios that you are familiar with....
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Yes, one should come close to the machine's RTP. Depending on the games/machines you play, one wouldn't even need to run anywhere near millions of dollars through to get close to the RTP. Sure, you could be off 1 or 2 % either way. And again, it highly depends on what game you're playing. If you're playing something super volatile like 10 play Ultimate X VP, you're going to be all over the map. If you're playing something like Video Blackjack, you should be getting close to your EV fairly quickly. If you're able to find a game like roulette that accepts free play, and you're allowed to make offsetting bets, obviously, you're going to hit your EV.
Again, with your question on earning millions in free play. Are we talking multi-carding at many casinos, or are we talking about one person playing on their individual card at one location, or multiple locations? I'll just say this: One should be able to "easily" find places that will generate 50% of your coin-in back in free play. But that's not going to happen with one person playing their own card at one Casino for large amounts of free play; again, there's usually a cap. And heck, there's probably someone out there who has found such a spectacular situation where they're getting large amounts of free play for relatively very little action.
I played in a situation where my theoretical and total loss was about $50-$150 with no fluctuation, and it generated thousands in free play along with RFB and more, the total amount of time it took to earn the free play was less than 2 hours. But that's where the Simplicity stopped, it took a few months to collect the free play, you had to check in, etc.
KJ, I know there are some bad sections to the east, but I thought some of the worst areas were to the north?Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Yep, some bad areas north. Just north of the downtown (Fremont) area is the homeless corridor, that Dawg frequently mentions in his trolling, with several different shelters and such. Just a little bit north of that and you are in North Las Vegas, which is a separate little city, which also has good and bad areas. But east of the strip, all the way out to Boulder Highway is not a great area, with sections that are really bad with drugs and crime. You can debate which is the worst.Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterVKJ, I know there are some bad sections to the east, but I thought some of the worst areas were to the north?Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDawg
Is that a typical time period required to cash all FP out generated from an initial seed wager, and complete the play?Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
Does this mean that the loss incurred shouldn't be expected to be recovered for at least some months after the initial wager, and any profit shouldn't be expected to be available as cash until some months after the initial loss is recovered?
I'm asking about a typical scenario. It's understood that the player can be made whole, and a profit cashed out, from playing off the first $50 of FP, if they happen to hit a $100K jackpot.
So under this scenario, if the total FP generated is $1.5M, then the total wager (coin-in) would have been $3M.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
If the FP was converted to cash at the rate of 90%, then it's reasonable to assume that the RTP on the coin-in was 90% as well.
So a 10% loss on a $3M total wager would be $300K.
That is to say, one could reasonably expect to generate $1.5M in FP from a $3M total wager, with an expected loss of $300K, and an overall profit on the play of $1.05M.
Is that an accurate summary of the math of an AP mail play?
LMAO at CB continuing attempts to troll me. AW already told him that no two situations are the same. Casinos all do FP and mailers differently, using different formulas. Can it be ANY clearer from his questions to Wolf that belly has no idea how the FP mailer game worked? Wont' stop him though. What a loser!
The only good from CB's trolling is a good discussion about how the FP/mailer game worked in Vegas a decade ago. Unfortunately, that isn't going to help anyone as it is not the way it works today at most places.
You'll need to wait for Axel's answers to my questions in order to make that assessment.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
But we already know that you estimated an $800K loss on a $3M wager, which is 267% of the expected loss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
No you don't know anything of the sort belly. Different amounts of coin in generate different amounts of offers and FP at different casinos.Quote:
Originally Posted by coach bellyYou'll need to wait for Axel's answers to my questions in order to make that assessment.Quote:
Originally Posted by kewlJ
But we already know that you estimated an $800K loss on a $3M wager, which is 267% of the expected loss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxelWolf
You are making some generalization about 8 years worth of coin-in and what it generated at 40 different casinos.
You are an idiot. You really are.