ASM revisited again!

[mickeycrimm]

So Mickey, how many APs have you known to hit a $100K+ jackpot where the AP wasn't specifically targeting the bonus?

You didn't answer...

Kewl, why were you not churning the FP on slots? How often did you guys go with slots to play off FP and what were these scenarios where you would do so?

II’ve never had a discussion with anyone about biggest hits on freeplay so can’t say.

[kewlJ]

Honestly gambling is kinda lame. Normal successful women just see you as a degenerate. I may see them as unthinking cogs in the machine who also contribute little to society but ... that doesn't matter when I want to get with them.

A dozen times in recent days you have opinioned that Gambling is lame. So naturally you have spent the last 6 years on a gambling forum.

What do you care what people think? Seriously. Back when I was in Philly, I frequented a bar (straight sports bar) that had a regular group of working folks come by on a friday happy hour. One of the guys, in his 40's at the time, owned a porn shop in center city Philly, near the convention center. The kind of place that sold magazine and sex toys up from, but in the back had booths were people would watch movies and do what not.

Most people would think kind of a sleezy business. But it was just a business. He was a businessman, paid taxes, lived in a very nice house in a very nice, upscale community in New Jersey with his wife and 2 kids that were in private schools. He was somewhat religious, want to synagogue regularly. Involved in little league. I remember he was once selling us girl scout cookies for his daughter. He could care less about people judging him. He was a normal guy running a business. Happened to be a sex store or whatever you call it.

Advantage players are pretty much the same. When done right, even at a modest level like I do, we are just sort of self-employed people, no different than any other self-employed people. If there are people out there that have a need to judge and look down, that is their issue, not ours.

[accountinquestion]

So Mickey, how many APs have you known to hit a $100K+ jackpot where the AP wasn't specifically targeting the bonus?

You didn't answer...

Kewl, why were you not churning the FP on slots? How often did you guys go with slots to play off FP and what were these scenarios where you would do so?

II’ve never had a discussion with anyone about biggest hits on freeplay so can’t say.

Take the freeplay out of the question. I didn't ask about freeplay. Surely you'd remember these things. I remember the one personj I've known/been acqainted with that hit something that big.

I may know a high-end slot player who shares bankrolls to target big mhb's .. and he may have hit 100k and i wouldn't know. But just that random 100k dropping out of the sky? Seems like you don't remember it ever having happened which doesn't mean you weren't told and forgot.. but.. people can draw their own conclusions about likeliehoods.

[accountinquestion]

Honestly gambling is kinda lame. Normal successful women just see you as a degenerate. I may see them as unthinking cogs in the machine who also contribute little to society but ... that doesn't matter when I want to get with them.

A dozen times in recent days you have opinioned that Gambling is lame. So naturally you have spent the last 6 years on a gambling forum.

What do you care what people think? Seriously. Back when I was in Philly, I frequented a bar (straight sports bar) that had a regular group of working folks come by on a friday happy hour. One of the guys, in his 40's at the time, owned a porn shop in center city Philly, near the convention center. The kind of place that sold magazine and sex toys up from, but in the back had booths were people would watch movies and do what not.

Most people would think kind of a sleezy business. But it was just a business. He was a businessman, paid taxes, lived in a very nice house in a very nice, upscale community in New Jersey with his wife and 2 kids that were in private schools. He was somewhat religious, want to synagogue regularly. Involved in little league. I remember he was once selling us girl scout cookies for his daughter. He could care less about people judging him. He was a normal guy running a business. Happened to be a sex store or whatever you call it.

Advantage players are pretty much the same. When done right, even at a modest level like I do, we are just sort of self-employed people, no different than any other self-employed people. If there are people out there that have a need to judge and look down, that is their issue, not ours.

I dunno what to tell you bro. Once you leave gambling circles and go into the normal straight world where your associates and peers are professionals of some sorts - gambling tends to be looked down on more than not. ESPECIALLY amongst women. Go look at a serious list of 'undesirable traits for partners' .. it will definitely have gambing on it.

I care what successful professional people think because those are the closest to my peers if I don't stay in that gamblin' life. Sure there are handful of nerdy poker geek girls and I'm pretty sure more than one has had eyes for me but honestly i don't find it an attractive trait in women. Maybe if I wanted to be deep in that life til I died but I really prefer to more or less put it behind me. Sitting at a table for hours waiting for cards .. or occupying your brain constantly with the running count .. just sucks relative to other options I have.

[kewlJ]

I dunno what to tell you bro. Once you leave gambling circles and go into the normal straight world where your associates and peers are professionals of some sorts - gambling tends to be looked down on more than not. ESPECIALLY amongst women. Go look at a serious list of 'undesirable traits for partners' .. it will definitely have gambing on it.

Could be. I don't know. I don't spend my life trying to impress women, nor do I live somewhere where gambling for a living might be looked down on. Here in Vegas I have never found that to be the case. I have told people, doctors that I see, attorneys that I work with, relators that have given me a mortgage and never had anyone bat an eye.

I did go to a high school reunion a while back in Florida and I really didn't go into it wanting it known what I did, but that is basically what reunions are and once you tell people you live in Las Vegas, it kind of came out. I guess I felt like a few people might be being judgmental, but mostly there was just curiosity.

[MDawg]

But of course I'm just trolling you... and all the trolls deep down actually believe you, right? Total self-dilution. Have you ever considered you might be wrong about anything??

[accountinquestion]

I dunno what to tell you bro. Once you leave gambling circles and go into the normal straight world where your associates and peers are professionals of some sorts - gambling tends to be looked down on more than not. ESPECIALLY amongst women. Go look at a serious list of 'undesirable traits for partners' .. it will definitely have gambing on it.

Could be. I don't know. I don't spend my life trying to impress women, nor do I live somewhere where gambling for a living might be looked down on. Here in Vegas I have never found that to be the case. I have told people, doctors that I see, attorneys that I work with, relators that have given me a mortgage and never had anyone bat an eye.

I did go to a high school reunion a while back in Florida and I really didn't go into it wanting it known what I did, but that is basically what reunions are and once you tell people you live in Las Vegas, it kind of came out. I guess I felt like a few people might be being judgmental, but mostly there was just curiosity.

Meh. Maybe in LV where 2/3s of all mother are prostitutes or dancers they don't look down on it. j/k

People who want $ from you don't care. Women who want a partner do care. lol. We all know that you find gambling to be the coolest thing ever. I found/find it interesting and still do but I'm not interested in pursuing it. That is the case with many things.

Also I suspect our peers are distinctly different. My gf is an appelate attorney arguing a case next couple of weeks in a quite important court. She tolerates me for different reasons but most of her peers wouldn't give me much of a chance if they were out on the market.

Reunions are all hens trying to figure me out. cluck cluck clucking amongst themselves. All asking you some variation of the same question because they remember me from well from HS but I just disappeared entirely from that crowd once I left HS. Thats how it is with most women. They love to judge or they want your money. One of the 2.

[kewlJ]

I dunno what to tell you bro. Once you leave gambling circles and go into the normal straight world where your associates and peers are professionals of some sorts - gambling tends to be looked down on more than not. ESPECIALLY amongst women. Go look at a serious list of 'undesirable traits for partners' .. it will definitely have gambing on it.

I care what successful professional people think because those are the closest to my peers if I don't stay in that gamblin' life. Sure there are handful of nerdy poker geek girls and I'm pretty sure more than one has had eyes for me but honestly i don't find it an attractive trait in women. Maybe if I wanted to be deep in that life til I died but I really prefer to more or less put it behind me. Sitting at a table for hours waiting for cards .. or occupying your brain constantly with the running count .. just sucks relative to other options I have.

I am really quite perplexed by this. Should I be looking down on Mickeycrimm, Axelwolf, Zenking and people like Munchkin that I admire because the make a living gambling? Should I look down on Dan Druff because he is "a nerdy poker player"? Weird ! I don't even look down on Redietz for being a tout. I do look down on his because he told us he was something else all these year. People just making a living gambling. Not hurting anyone. No worse than most other things people do.

And the "contributes nothing to society" argument just in no way works. If you earn money legally, pay taxes, buy groceries and gas and anything else that contributes to the economy and keeping people working, you contribute to society just the same if your income comes from gambling as if you are an Attorney (MrV) or doctor, CEO of a company or whatever.

Maybe that is just me.

[kewlJ]

Meh. Maybe in LV where 2/3s of all mother are prostitutes or dancers they don't look down on it. j/k

Jesus dude. Yes there are some prostitute females in Vegas. And some show girls ect, more than other cities, which all cities have them.

But try getting away from the strip a bit, maybe Summerlin, or parts of Henderson or even Northwest. where newer homes are being built and over-built. . Most females are what you call normal females. Mothers, that work "normal jobs", some professional. Big healthcare industry here. Lot of nurses and even doctors.

I am sure you have been to Vegas during your AP 6 month period, and didn't you play poker? so probably involved with that. And I think you recently mentioned a trip here with a GF or something, but jeez, sure seems like your view of Las Vegas is almost something from the movies or something.

I don't know about the females you hang with but YOU acctinQ seem to be the judgemental one caring about what people do and think.

[MDawg]

Coach is the best man here when it comes to really, in theory, and actually, in practice, proving things out.

And that's why tewlj wants me banned.

He is a pathological liar, incapable of posting honestly, and the enemy of the truth.

[AxelWolf]

There are many, many places where free play is generated on losses.

Is that a standard offer, or a special promotion?

Regarding standard freeplay offers, can you estimate what total wager would be required to generate $1million in freeplay? For this exercise, let's assume the offers are competitive among the various casinos and their affiliated properties.

Young Mendelson recently wrote of a 2-day trip to GVR, where his total wager was approximately $200K. How much FP can he expect to be offered from that total wager?

No, I'm not talking about any special promotion. There are many such places, and the amounts you will generate is all over the map depending on the casino. They are also casinos that do a combination of both coin-in and losses; there are casinos that do either/or. IE X amount of coin in will get you X amount, or X amount of losses will get you X amount, or X amount of coin in plus X amount of losses with get you X amount.

And things are always changing, one month it could be one thing, and suddenly they change things.

I have no clue what it would take to generate 1 million in free play from one location, I have never attempted such a thing; even if possible, there are just too many things that can go wrong. Imagine giving up $300,000 in EV expecting to get a million back in free play, only to get 86ed.

There's usually a cap that will be automatically generated; anything above that would probably be on a case-by-case basis, determined by an executive host.

Green Valley Ranch has never been super good regarding high amounts of free play. I have not put much time in there attempting to generate free play.

It's hard to say what Mendoson GVR will get since there are too many different factors, such as his previous play, what types of games he played, how much he won or lost, and what their cap is.

There's usually a sweet spot that will earn you the maximum auto-generated free play offers while giving up the least amount on the machines in the least amount of time.

[kewlJ]

There's usually a sweet spot that will earn you the maximum auto-generated free play offers while giving up the least amount on the machines in the least amount of time.

Bingo!! And that amount is different for all different places and when you think you have it figured out, it all of the sudden changes.

When I stopped or severely cut down my mailer/VP play just after my partner passed, the way it worked was you hit a big coin-in, whatever you thought was that sweet spot and it generated an amount of free play for about 6 months. The amount might drop after two months and drop again after 4, but you got something for 6 months at minimum, just playing your FP playthrough, no further coin-in. So you could figure and count on what your return would be from that single coin-in.

Now last year, I picked just a couple properties that used to give good FP and tried to revive that model. But the model had changed. I hit them with a big coin-in and got a decent FP for the first month, but because I only picked up the FP, the offers immediately dropped or were cutoff all together. I didn't get 6 months worth of offers. To continue getting the high amount, I would have needed to hit more coin-in each time I picked up FP, and that would make the play not +EV of if you could figure out a way to give just enough, to keep offers at that level, it could be slightly +Ev, but not enough to make it worthwhile like just a decades ago.

Nothing lasts forever I guess. But I still think it was all the multi-carding that ruined a good play.

[MDawg]

Puppets like KewlJ give me the horrors. They jerk around like puppets on invisible strings, galvanized into hideous activity that is the negation of everything living and spontaneous.

The live human being has moved out of KewlJ’s body long ago. But something moved in when the original tenant moved out. And that something, is the Norm’s, The WizardsofVegas, the RobSingers, the Taters/Moses, the MDawgs who marched into KewlJ’s head and took over like ventriloquists' dummies who have moved in and taken over the ventriloquist. The dummy KewlJ sits there in front of the computer, envious, jealous, obsessed, and uncontrollably yapping out of a rigid doll face about MDawg.

There is a certain kind of ghost that can only materialize with the aid of a sheet or other piece of cloth to give it outline. KewlJ was like that. He materialized only when someone else moved into his head and gave him a reason to appear.

[coach belly]

IE X amount of coin in will get you X amount, or X amount of losses will get you X amount, or X amount of coin in plus X amount of losses with get you X amount.

Will you stipulate that APs, who are primarily working the mail (for instance, darkoz), would know the value of the for X in your examples above?

If you (AW) were to run FP through once, what percentage of the FP would you expect to convert to a cashable ticket?

I would expect that running several millions of dollars of FP through a machine would return an amount that's very close to the RTP for whatever game was played. Is that a reasonable assumption?

Are you able to estimate how much coin-in would be required to generate several millions of dollars in FP? Not necessary to cover every permutation, just base your estimate on scenarios that you are familiar with....

There's usually a sweet spot that will earn you the maximum auto-generated free play offers while giving up the least amount on the machines in the least amount of time.

[kewlJ]

Belly, you do KNOW that a player learns this through trial and error right? You put in a certain coin-in and it generates so much FP. Next cycle you try a different amount, maybe twice as much and it basically generates the same. So you conclude, no sense in going higher than the initial amount. You try that a couple different ways and you figure an amount that is that sweet spot to generate an optimal amount. But that is ONLY for that location. You have to do so over and over for each location. So there is no singular answer.

Now I keep being asked this same question. First I have never given much thought to how much FP I ever had until yesterday. And that is why my initial response was hundreds of thousands of dollars, but thinking about it and the 35-40 mailers we received, I amended to a higher amount of a couple million. But really that isn't right either. Not every mailer was at the top of the cycle each month, so the amount would have been some lower.

BUT whatever that amount, a million, million and a half in Free play, no way I can know what it took to generate that. And you talk about it like it was a million or two million in one time, generated in one sitting. Some might have been generated at XX casino which uses this formula or gives xx amount for a certain coin-in another at a different casino using a completely dis-similar formula of amount for the same coin-in.

So no way for me to know looking back. And to know in the moment, you would need to keep very detailed records for like the 10 years we did this, and I just didn't do that. That would take as much time as playing the damn play.

Maybe dark oz keeps those kind of records and can give you an answer. maybe Axelwolf can. I didn't keep that kind of records. I saw no benefit from doing so. and anything I said now would be a complete guestimate, and I see no sense in that either.

[smurgerburger]

Pretty hard to talk convincingly and consistently about something you've only read about in vague posts online.

[kewlJ]

Pretty hard to talk convincingly and consistently about something you've only read about in vague posts online.

Oh stop it! do you know how stupid that shit is that you guys continually post? Do you really think I spent 20 years of my life learning everything I could learn about card counting and the other supplemental stuff I do, so I can fool 8 people on a forum.

Just grow up dude. You are repeating Singer/Mdawg shit and just making yourself look as idiotic as they are.

[coach belly]

And you talk about it like it was a million or two million in one time, generated in one sitting.

No I didn't, I asked about total wager over the 8 year period that you wrote about.

I amended to a higher amount of a couple million.

Your story is changing again...

Our total FP played had to easily be several millions of dollars in FP played.

But we can examine whatever number your story-telling wheel lands on...even $2M will work just fine.

BUT whatever that amount, a million, million and a half in Free play, no way I can know what it took to generate that.

Sure there is, that's just basic bookkeeping.

What kind of AP doesn't know how to calculate how much they earned?

You didn't or can't keep track several millions of dollars of machine play over 8 years?

You must have had multi-millions of dollars in wagers to generate several millions in FP.

That would be pretty significant to someone who was only making $100K per year via their primary game.

[kewlJ]

In the end, you always go right back to trolling.

I notice you don't grill mickeycrimm like this...like he is on trial, because mickey won't give you the time of day.

No other AP's share much of what they do and wouldn't answer you grilling them like this.

And I am not going to continue to do so either. It always comes back to coach belly playing games.

[coach belly]

I notice you don't grill mickeycrimm like this

I don't need to grill mickey, he's genuine. I ask him a question and he gives a reasonable and consistent answer.

You keep a spreadsheet to audit MDawg's play, but no records or clear recollection of your own millions-of-dollars Freeplay adventures? LOL

You always talk yourself into a corner, and then collapse and curl up in a ball, crying that you can't deal with questions.

What's your next move...blocking me or leaving the forum?