Coins to Paper Currency?

[QUOTE=Alan Mendelson;74824]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Come on kewlj. Get off your pedestal. RS' error in calling the initial $400 free play has nothing to do with your EV story. He used the wrong terminology. It has nothing to do with you. The end.

---

Shut the fuck up Mendelson, you dishonest shyster. Your comments in response to RS_ once again, prove that you do not understand the concept of EV (expected value), which first became evident earlier this year when we discussed the concept. And NOT understanding this concept is precisely why your tired old ass is broke 2 days after you receive your pension and social security each month AND why you are in debt up to your big nose with family members that you continue to stiff.

---

Listen kewlj. My comments had nothing to do with any debate about EV. I simply pointed out that using your own money is not free play. Now stop whining and stop trying to twist this into something else.

Using your own money is not free play. That's all. Now try to have a mature discussion.[/QUOTE]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxNWPlmIqWA

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

I'll gladly buy freeplay at 11 for 10 all day long. Sell me a million dollars worth. Please.

---

You don't know how dumb you sound. Must be the residual from your return flight back from Geriatric Park.

What this promo means is that the sucker AP's will turn their real cash in for theoretical bucks. Why do you think they didn't just give you $40 FP for turning coin into paper? BECAUSE IT'S THEIR WAY OF GETTING YOU PEOPLE IN THERE. And they know more than anybody that these players are the very last in capability of running the FP thru once, and then leaving. Besides, whether the machine is 96% or 104%, not even playing one penny at a time will guarantee anyone getting their $400 back out of it.

Dumbest thing I've ever heard--giving casinos your money so they can throw a handful of phantom bucks back at you.

I think Rob is right about this. As I said before I initially thought that when you brought in $400 of coins they would give you $400 of cash plus $40 of free play.

But then I found out they gave you slot play for your initial $400 which put your own money at risk. And you still consider that a +EV play? I don't think it is.

Bringing in $400 of coin to get $400 of cash plus $40 of free play IS a +EV move and I'd do that all day if the bank was conveniently located. But letting a casino take your cash and giving you slot play is not +EV even with a $40 or $80 free play incentive. The casino has you APs outsmarted on this one. Sorry.

Oh, by the way, this has nothing to do with 18 yos in a row which is the only personal attack missing in this thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I think Rob is right about this. As I said before I initially thought that when you brought in $400 of coins they would give you $400 of cash plus $40 of free play.

But then I found out they gave you slot play for your initial $400 which put your own money at risk. And you still consider that a +EV play? I don't think it is.

Bringing in $400 of coin to get $400 of cash plus $40 of free play IS a +EV move and I'd do that all day if the bank was conveniently located. But letting a casino take your cash and giving you slot play is not +EV even with a $40 or $80 free play incentive. The casino has you APs outsmarted on this one. Sorry.

---

Case in point. You just have no idea what you are talking about Mendelson. :rolleyes: And that goes for most times you open your trap.


Ill say this again: No wonder you are broke 28 days of the month.

You two are going to have to show your math rather than simply make "trust me, I know" proclamations.

I did this twice at Ellis Island last time it was offered, got the entirety in free play, ran it through once, and left with a profit each time. I played quarters, so I had plenty of hands to keep the variance down. Not a magic trick. I don't play the double/triple/God-help-me-hit-four-of-a-kind high variance games.

Some people can walk away, win or lose, after playing it through once. Some people cannot.

And I think monet mentioned the machine jammed up regularly. Yeah, it did for me. He knows whereof he speaks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

You two are going to have to show your math rather than simply make "trust me, I know" proclamations.

I did this twice at Ellis Island last time it was offered, got the entirety in free play, ran it through once, and left with a profit each time. I played quarters, so I had plenty of hands to keep the variance down. Not a magic trick. I don't play the double/triple/God-help-me-hit-four-of-a-kind high variance games.

Some people can walk away, win or lose, after playing it through once. Some people cannot.

And I think monet mentioned the machine jammed up regularly. Yeah, it did for me. He knows whereof he speaks.

---

Sure you can get lucky and win but the catch is you are losing control of your own money. You are being forced to run your own $400 thru their machines. The paytable or EV of the machine no longer matters because the reality is you no longer have control.

Now, suppose you didn't want to risk $400? Would you still make this play?

On the other hand, if you were going to play $400 in slots or VP anyway then sure, go ahead and do it.

But be honest about what's going on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I think Rob is right about this. As I said before I initially thought that when you brought in $400 of coins they would give you $400 of cash plus $40 of free play.

But then I found out they gave you slot play for your initial $400 which put your own money at risk. And you still consider that a +EV play? I don't think it is.

Bringing in $400 of coin to get $400 of cash plus $40 of free play IS a +EV move and I'd do that all day if the bank was conveniently located. But letting a casino take your cash and giving you slot play is not +EV even with a $40 or $80 free play incentive. The casino has you APs outsmarted on this one. Sorry.

---

Case in point. You just have no idea what you are talking about Mendelson. :rolleyes: And that goes for most times you open your trap.


Ill say this again: No wonder you are broke 28 days of the month.

---

Humor me kewlj and specifically point out what you disagree with in my post above. Don't attack me with every insult that's been posted before but honestly tell me what you disagree with.

I don't think you will.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

You two are going to have to show your math rather than simply make "trust me, I know" proclamations.

I did this twice at Ellis Island last time it was offered, got the entirety in free play, ran it through once, and left with a profit each time. I played quarters, so I had plenty of hands to keep the variance down. Not a magic trick. I don't play the double/triple/God-help-me-hit-four-of-a-kind high variance games.

Some people can walk away, win or lose, after playing it through once. Some people cannot.

And I think monet mentioned the machine jammed up regularly. Yeah, it did for me. He knows whereof he speaks.

---

Sure you can get lucky and win but the catch is you are losing control of your own money. You are being forced to run your own $400 thru their machines. The paytable or EV of the machine no longer matters because the reality is you no longer have control.

Now, suppose you didn't want to risk $400? Would you still make this play?

On the other hand, if you were going to play $400 in slots or VP anyway then sure, go ahead and do it.

But be honest about what's going on.

---

What are you talking about? What's going on is:

1) I'll eat at the coffee shop. Probably the special.
2) I'll play the football contest at the kiosk.
3) I'll run the presumed $440 through once on a low variance machine and wind up with somewhere between $380 and $480.


The only way someone is "risking $400" on a low variance, quarter machine is if they are such a video poker addict that they can't stop after running it through once. Not in my DNA.

I like the Ellis island coffee shop. I'll eat there once every visit if I have time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I think Rob is right about this. As I said before I initially thought that when you brought in $400 of coins they would give you $400 of cash plus $40 of free play.

But then I found out they gave you slot play for your initial $400 which put your own money at risk. And you still consider that a +EV play? I don't think it is.

Bringing in $400 of coin to get $400 of cash plus $40 of free play IS a +EV move and I'd do that all day if the bank was conveniently located. But letting a casino take your cash and giving you slot play is not +EV even with a $40 or $80 free play incentive. The casino has you APs outsmarted on this one. Sorry.

Oh, by the way, this has nothing to do with 18 yos in a row which is the only personal attack missing in this thread.

---

As usual, Rob is 100% WRONG! I showed you the return yesterday. Wise up! Wait, don't do that. We need people losing their money!

Redietz how many times have you run $440 thru a low variance VP machine and cashed out $359 or less?

Are you telling me that's never going to happen?

I'm making two points here.

1. When you bring $400 of coin to a casino and the casino forces you to play it, it's not free play. I think everyone now agrees that is the case.

2. I'm saying this isn't the +EV promotion we are led to believe it is because you do have to risk your own money to get $40 or even $80 of free play.

NOW PLEASE READ THIS:

If you're going to play $400 of your own money anyway then yes do the promotion. You are getting an extra $40 of play. But don't pretend you've got the casino by the balls.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

You two are going to have to show your math rather than simply make "trust me, I know" proclamations.

I did this twice at Ellis Island last time it was offered, got the entirety in free play, ran it through once, and left with a profit each time. I played quarters, so I had plenty of hands to keep the variance down. Not a magic trick. I don't play the double/triple/God-help-me-hit-four-of-a-kind high variance games.

Some people can walk away, win or lose, after playing it through once. Some people cannot.

And I think monet mentioned the machine jammed up regularly. Yeah, it did for me. He knows whereof he speaks.

---

Sure you can get lucky and win but the catch is you are losing control of your own money. You are being forced to run your own $400 thru their machines. The paytable or EV of the machine no longer matters because the reality is you no longer have control.

Now, suppose you didn't want to risk $400? Would you still make this play?

On the other hand, if you were going to play $400 in slots or VP anyway then sure, go ahead and do it.

But be honest about what's going on.

---

What are you talking about? What's going on is:

1) I'll eat at the coffee shop. Probably the special.
2) I'll play the football contest at the kiosk.
3) I'll run the presumed $440 through once on a low variance machine and wind up with somewhere between $380 and $480.


The only way someone is "risking $400" on a low variance, quarter machine is if they are such a video poker addict that they can't stop after running it through once. Not in my DNA.

I like the Ellis island coffee shop. I'll eat there once every visit if I have time.

---

Or if they play as shitty as Alan does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbjb

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I think Rob is right about this. As I said before I initially thought that when you brought in $400 of coins they would give you $400 of cash plus $40 of free play.

But then I found out they gave you slot play for your initial $400 which put your own money at risk. And you still consider that a +EV play? I don't think it is.

Bringing in $400 of coin to get $400 of cash plus $40 of free play IS a +EV move and I'd do that all day if the bank was conveniently located. But letting a casino take your cash and giving you slot play is not +EV even with a $40 or $80 free play incentive. The casino has you APs outsmarted on this one. Sorry.

Oh, by the way, this has nothing to do with 18 yos in a row which is the only personal attack missing in this thread.

---

As usual, Rob is 100% WRONG! I showed you the return yesterday. Wise up! Wait, don't do that. We need people losing their money!

---

Jbjb all you show is "expected return." If you want to live your life with expected returns go ahead and do that and more power to you. But don't tell me Rob is wrong. Yes, Rob is taking a different point of view just as I am. But Rob isn't wrong just as I'm not wrong. Your EV is not cut into stone, it's not forged in steel, it is not insured or guaranteed. Just please concede that much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redietz

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Sure you can get lucky and win but the catch is you are losing control of your own money. You are being forced to run your own $400 thru their machines. The paytable or EV of the machine no longer matters because the reality is you no longer have control.

Now, suppose you didn't want to risk $400? Would you still make this play?

On the other hand, if you were going to play $400 in slots or VP anyway then sure, go ahead and do it.

But be honest about what's going on.

---

What are you talking about? What's going on is:

1) I'll eat at the coffee shop. Probably the special.
2) I'll play the football contest at the kiosk.
3) I'll run the presumed $440 through once on a low variance machine and wind up with somewhere between $380 and $480.


The only way someone is "risking $400" on a low variance, quarter machine is if they are such a video poker addict that they can't stop after running it through once. Not in my DNA.

I like the Ellis island coffee shop. I'll eat there once every visit if I have time.

---

Or if they play as shitty as Alan does.

---

Yes, you might play shitty as I do or the RNG might not cooperate with your perfect holds.

Okay? Are we on the same page now?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbjb

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

I think Rob is right about this. As I said before I initially thought that when you brought in $400 of coins they would give you $400 of cash plus $40 of free play.

But then I found out they gave you slot play for your initial $400 which put your own money at risk. And you still consider that a +EV play? I don't think it is.

Bringing in $400 of coin to get $400 of cash plus $40 of free play IS a +EV move and I'd do that all day if the bank was conveniently located. But letting a casino take your cash and giving you slot play is not +EV even with a $40 or $80 free play incentive. The casino has you APs outsmarted on this one. Sorry.

Oh, by the way, this has nothing to do with 18 yos in a row which is the only personal attack missing in this thread.

---

As usual, Rob is 100% WRONG! I showed you the return yesterday. Wise up! Wait, don't do that. We need people losing their money!

---

Jbjb all you show is "expected return." If you want to live your life with expected returns go ahead and do that and more power to you. But don't tell me Rob is wrong. Yes, Rob is taking a different point of view just as I am. But Rob isn't wrong just as I'm not wrong. Your EV is not cut into stone, it's not forged in steel, it is not insured or guaranteed. Just please concede that much.

---

Jim murren and Gary Loveman made millions banking on "expected returns." We make a bunch of money AP'ing with "expected return." You go ahead and keep losing to those negative "expected returns" you get!

Caesars was in bankrupty, MGM got killed with City Center. And they have bigger expected returns than you do jbjb. Thanks for posting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbjb

Jim murren and Gary Loveman made millions banking on "expected returns." We make a bunch of money AP'ing with "expected return." You go ahead and keep losing to those negative "expected returns" you get!

---

Exactly!

You know what Alan....nevermind. I guess whatever you are doing is working well for you...as evident by you owing family members that you can't pay and being broke most days of the month. ;)

As an AP, I and every other AP actually owe you a debt of gratitude, for we couldn't do what we do, if there weren't all you suckers making it possible. Thanks Alan. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jbjb

Jim murren and Gary Loveman made millions banking on "expected returns." We make a bunch of money AP'ing with "expected return." You go ahead and keep losing to those negative "expected returns" you get!

---

Exactly!

You know what Alan....nevermind. I guess whatever you are doing is working well for you...as evident by you owing family members that you can't pay and being broke most days of the month. ;)

As an AP, I and every other AP actually owe you a debt of gratitude, for we couldn't do what we do, if there weren't all you suckers making it possible. Thanks Alan. :)

---

Please read my response to jbjb. Thanks for posting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alan Mendelson

Please read my response to jbjb. Thanks for posting.

---

I did read your response to jbjb. My only question is how can one person be so damn dumb? For all the time you spend in casinos, and as much interest as you have about the casino industry....how can you be so clueless as to how everything works? :confused:

Alan, here's an old newspaper article about AP's at Sands Bethlehem paying the homeless for generic slot cards with freeplay on them. The homeless came out of New York City on busses everyday by the thousands. They had to pay $15 for the roundtrip bus ticket but got a generic slot card with $45 in freeplay when they got to Sands Bethlehem. They then sold the cards to the AP's for $40 each. An individual AP might be buying hundreds of cards a day. To the AP it equated to a 12.5% add-on. That left plenty of room for profit when playing 97% and 98% games.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...pjKKfFdqaymrnv

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

Alan, here's an old newspaper article about AP's at Sands Bethlehem paying the homeless for generic slot cards with freeplay on them. The homeless came out of New York City on busses everyday by the thousands. They had to pay $15 for the roundtrip bus ticket but got a generic slot card with $45 in freeplay when they got to Sands Bethlehem. They then sold the cards to the AP's for $40 each. An individual AP might be buying hundreds of cards a day. To the AP it equated to a 12.5% add-on. That left plenty of room for profit when playing 97% and 98% games.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...pjKKfFdqaymrnv

---

WAIT! How can THIS be mickey? The AP's are "losing control" of there money. LMFAO! ;)