Gambling Forums ... WHY?

I posted this opinion in the WOV thread about gambling forums. (Post #3719) I’m asking Dan to remove that posts content since I moved it here. (except for the first and last paragraph which directly relates to the thread and was removed from this post) I think the opinions for gambling forums deserves a more open debate on its own.

There is one thing no one wants to talk about or ever mentions. What is the actual purpose of all these different gambling web-sites that exist? Does anyone believe these different righteous owners of these gambling sites are putting up money to run these sites with the hopes of anonymous posters being able to gain any edge on casinos, or how they could earn a free burger and fries? If so, why? You could buy perfect play cards for video poker, BJ, etc. directly in the casino lobby. Other than already dead information no one is going to teach you the best way to use it. They did that with video poker and blackjack and now for the most part those games became nothing more than a typical slot machine game with a slightly slower death. Once in awhile a casino promo comes up where these games are smarter to play, and of course the exceptions like 15 year veterans named KJ. LOL For the most part it's all dead information.


The actual facts of the matters are these owners are obviously associated with or are gamblers and are taking a chance no different than investing in a penny stock, with the hopes and prays of spiking a winner. The perfect example of this risk is Shank and his sites. You have to give him credit for creating a site (don’t think he actually created the site first) teaching the math about gambling generating a lot of traffic. Yes, he was brought down to his knees after years and begging for money to help run it. (math didn't hold up for him) But his penny stock mining company struck gold just in time before the doors were about to close, thanks to offshore online gaming interests. Not to mention their and Shanks lack of concerns about illegal money transfers to foreign gambling sites from the USA. If you get in trouble for it I'm sure Shank won't answer the phone.


The difference with his gold strike and other ones like Casinomeister in Europe, is the owner of Casinomeister is in direct collusion with the online casinos where its legal. He is lobbied and influenced no different than politicians for cash, all the while pretending to protect the suckers who play. Plus, he owns the web-site he promotes from. To give him credit he does help players when the casinos are blatantly obvious crooks. But I certainly would feel a little better with a regulator making any tough decisions over issues than a person who is on the casino’s payroll collecting checks from them.


Now Mike Shank actually sold his site and is now just a shill for foreign offshore gambling interests. They just don’t have influence on him anymore, they own him. The site is being run and controlled like a dictatorship by the people that own it. Mike Shank could care less about anyone that goes to or belongs to the club, (just recently telling his AP's if they don't like it to take a walk) or whatever happens to the sites down the road. He doesn’t own them. He has no choice but to play along. I would guess he would have rather collected his money and made a run for it. But he can’t.


The other sites like here look and try to create enough traffic and hope to be realized by gambling lobbyist’s for advertisements. All these other owners including Dan can make all the claims they want about their concerns of free speech, their concerns of teaching unknown people how to benefit from casinos, how to play games, etc. But the truth is their waiting for the lobbying contact, and along the way maybe some AP will privately turn them onto a profitable play. The risk of investment is peanuts with no down side if things don't work out.

If you’re reading these sites hoping to find any active AP play worthwhile, you’re only kidding yourself. If you’re lucky you’ll locate some two-bit play that’s already played out or expired. This fact falls into place for every type and form of gambling.

Math questions are something else. But once you’ve discussed your math question what’s left?

I guess my real question is why do you think forum site owners invest or even bother taking on the troubles to run one? I think Dan said when he bought this place from Alan, he wanted a place to post his sports picks. Really Dan? I’d like to challenge anyone’s sports picks with a coin flip and compare results.

What the fuck does this have to do with Las Vegas?!Why isn’t this in the whatever’s on your mind subforum?

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Originally Posted by mcap

What the fuck does this have to do with Las Vegas?!Why isn’t this in the whatever’s on your mind subforum?

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Just following normal protocol. While you're here, why do you visit gambling forums? Are you here just to chit chat with anoyomus strangers? I explained several times how I ended up on these forums and my opinions about them.

I don't know why you doubt my motives here are pure.

I have run my Pokerfraudalert forum for 8 years without attempting to monetize it.

I took this place over from Alan because I didn't want to see it shut down, and he wasn't interested in running it anymore.

That's it. Really.

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Originally Posted by blackhole

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Originally Posted by mcap

What the fuck does this have to do with Las Vegas?!Why isn’t this in the whatever’s on your mind subforum?

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Just following normal protocol. While you're here, why do you visit gambling forums? Are you here just to chit chat with anoyomus strangers? I explained several times how I ended' up on these forums and my opinions about them.

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I agree with Blackhole to a certain extent. I don't think Dan has any ulterior motive and since the double up thing I do not have any interest anymore except maybe as an outsider. Neely 777 is the only youtube video I watched and that only to formulate a strategy. His mistakes are my learning process. He shows his losing as well as his winning which is absent from forums. All of the vp posted here is argumentative and Alan is the only one I remember who posted an actual vp playing session. To that extent I agree with Rob that any player worth his salt formulates his own method from actual play and not with theories or formulas but with bankroll, loss limits, win goals, and with whatever special play presents itself. if ever, to have a CHANCE to save face.

Forums like this can be run for $10 a month and the setup isn't super difficult if you know some relatively basic stuff. Linux shells and the likes. From that you get your own community which might draw some fairly clever guys.

I've thought about running my own private gambling forum. They might already exist. It'd be useful to only allow people who seem to share stuff do just that. I wouldn't mind publicly dissecting a machine, but I don't want it popping up on google or read by 100s of other AP/gambler types. I could see running my own forum for just that purpose. Avoid the trolls who are bitter they can't grasp math and allow people to talk about plays that aren't super-secret but also not public.

Blackhole is lol. Good description of his brain.

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Originally Posted by blackhole

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Originally Posted by mcap

What the fuck does this have to do with Las Vegas?!Why isn’t this in the whatever’s on your mind subforum?

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Just following normal protocol. While you're here, why do you visit gambling forums? Are you here just to chit chat with anoyomus strangers? I explained several times how I ended up on these forums and my opinions about them.

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I started going on gambling forums years ago to learn from others, ask some questions. I don't consider this to be a gambling forum, just primarily a troll forum, so I don't really try to talk much gambling here. No other explanation for the continued presence of Tasha and Singer, and Midwest Player hanging out here despite there being no blackjack talk than it being mostly a forum intended for trolling.

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Originally Posted by mcap

I don't really try to talk much gambling here.

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You are the forum old man, yelling at people to get off his lawn.

Do you participate in another way?

Funny watching you two phony bozos criticizing others for being members here....when you're just that!

What you SHOULD be recognizing being the extraordinary gambling experts/clever forum analysts you both profess to be: the fact that your sportsbetting luminary has gone silent after being called out on both WoV and here.

What's his favorite word....CRICKETS? :

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Originally Posted by coach belly

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Originally Posted by mcap

I don't really try to talk much gambling here.

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You are the forum old man, yelling at people to get off his lawn.

Do you participate in another way?

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Not much, like I said this isn’t really a gambling forum. Mostly I’m just flabbergasted that people post everything in here and refuse to use the appropriate sub forum for a new thread.

Also Rob, take it easy on ditz, he’s probably just waiting to see something from Don Lemon he can mimic to tell him how to respond.

Quote - Blackhole:


"If you’re reading these sites hoping to find any active AP play worthwhile, you’re only kidding yourself. If you’re lucky you’ll locate some two-bit play that’s already played out or expired."




I'm not so sure that's true - I'm not a machine pro but I've seen quite a bit of explanation of how it works from Mission on WOV and also in other threads and I believe if someone really made the effort they could learn how to do it, they in fact could make money from machines. again, I'm no expert on this and it would be interesting to hear other opinions - but that is what I would surmise - there is a lot of useful info there

as far as BJ which I know much more about - if a person went to BJTF and focused on mainly the learning tools and scoped out the words of the true experts there - there is a member of the BJ HOF there that will answer any questions -and the owner of the site is definitely an expert who has created some fantastic software to assist a newbie -they could definitely with no doubt learn how to gain an edge. - the great difficulty of it is much more in how to handle casino efforts to destroy or reduce an AP's opportunities

the difficulty with the site is wading through all the crap to get to the few nuggets of wisdom - like going into a discount clothing store and having to wade through tons of crap to find one nice shirt that's 80% less than the same shirt at Macy's

so I can't agree that a wannabee AP will find these sites useless - again he will have no doubt a tremendous problem in having to wade thru all the crap that is there


it would be interesting to hear the comments of others

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Originally Posted by mcap

Mostly I’m just flabbergasted that people post everything in here and refuse to use the appropriate sub forum for a new thread.

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You must have been too strongly chastised for toilet-training accidents as a toddler.

I originally started posting here because I'm always looking for MLIFE or CET perks or angles. I used to spend 90-100 days in LV (for more than two decades), so all dining discounts and angles on free rooms were appreciated. Alan, followed by Dan, seemed to know their stuff in that regard. That's why I subscribed to the LVAdvisor also, going back to pre-internet days. Then I became fascinated by the parallel between the Alan/Rob relationship and the SRI/Uri Geller relationship. In each case, the second part of the duo was flim flamming the first, and I was surprised the first parts were fooled. Arci seemed to handle Rob fine, so need for me, who knew much less than arci regarding video poker, to say much of anything.

I went 2500 posts without mentioning what I do. But then "Singer" started talking about sports betting, and he clearly didn't know what he was talking about, so I felt it necessary to pull rank on him.

Since then, I have learned a lot about things I wasn't at all familiar with -- from mickey and monet and kewlJ, basically. Now should these guys have spilled what they know? If I were in their shoes, I would not, but I can understand as we all get older, no sense taking these ideas and accomplishments to the grave.

I have to add, when I first looked at forums, I expected a much higher degree of expertise. I expected everyone to be like monet or mickey or Schlesinger or "Anthony Curtis." I was stunned how math deficient people were in general, and how logic deficient.

Sports betting is going to dwarf all these other categories of gambling in a few years, just swallow it all up and dwarf it, and I am shocked at the complete lack of not only expertise, which is difficult to acquire, but at the silly myths and the lack of knowledge of the history of it. People know blackjack betting history, and video poker history, but they know almost nothing about sports betting history. The lack of savvy really comes across over at WoV, where even the more sophisticated people really have no handle on anything sports related.

For example, the only poster here or at WoV who knew anything about the "Tipsters or Gypsters?" annual publication was Kim Lee, who is a professional blackjack player. He has the collection. Now if you go to Gamblers' Book Club, they will know what you're talking about. It was published from the 70's through the mid-90's, all pre-internet. An annual summary of plays listing anywhere from 30 to 150 handicappers, including summaries of character thumbs-up or down and business history, and multi-year rankings on the back pages. I was in it for about 10 years, until it folded publication. If you don't know what "Tipsters or Gypsters?" was, well, you're missing a real long-term summary of most high-profile handicapping names.

Happy that you mentioned how knowledgeable those at GBC are. They're my book publisher.

The rest of your nonsense is just you desperately still trying to sell yourself. What happened--the PM's from different forums wanting in on your scam, stopped? Might be better to contact all those scientists & academics you're so tight with.

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Originally Posted by Dan Druff

I don't know why you doubt my motives here are pure.

I have run my Pokerfraudalert forum for 8 years without attempting to monetize it.

I took this place over from Alan because I didn't want to see it shut down, and he wasn't interested in running it anymore.

That's it. Really.

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I guess that’s how it is when you’re a righteous, generous, philanthropist.

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Forums like this can be run for $10 a month and the setup isn't super difficult if you know some relatively basic stuff. Linux shells and the likes. From that you get your own community which might draw some fairly clever guys.

I've thought about running my own private gambling forum. They might already exist. It'd be useful to only allow people who seem to share stuff do just that. I wouldn't mind publicly dissecting a machine, but I don't want it popping up on google or read by 100s of other AP/gambler types. I could see running my own forum for just that purpose. Avoid the trolls who are bitter they can't grasp math and allow people to talk about plays that aren't super-secret but also not public.

Blackhole is lol. Good description of his brain.

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You’d be better off donating your money to that faggot democrat Peter Buttigieg. Only problem would be if he’s elected president and then visits Saudi Arabia or some other Muslim country, they’ll throw him off a roof and stone him for good measure for being a queer.

Your comments fit perfectly with being a left wing liberal, communist, socialist asshole.

Like I mentioned in another thread I don’t want credit for coming up with the name acuntinquestion which fits you perfectly. It was Keystone.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Happy that you mentioned how knowledgeable those at GBC are. They're my book publisher.

The rest of your nonsense is just you desperately still trying to sell yourself. What happened--the PM's from different forums wanting in on your scam, stopped? Might be better to contact all those scientists & academics you're so tight with.

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I'm going to be very patient here. Once again, I'll mention a 5K reward for just a single email or PM demonstrating me soliciting anything. I do this whenever "Singer" lies, and still no takers.

Second, I'm not selling myself. Go ahead and try to hire me. Use beards, socks, offer whatever fee you think I'll take. It won't work. I offer this whenever "Singer" lies, and thus far, nobody has been able to hire me.

Third, I've been gentle through 5000 posts regarding Rob's books with GBC. I have never said one negative thing about his books. Rob, why don't you share the details of your book contract with GBC with the folks here on the forum. I'm sure they'll be fascinated. How much were you, um, paid?

That was a trick question, by the way. LOL.

You continue to say that BS because you know the soliciting was sent via texting.

If you're not selling yourself then why spend so much effort here and at WoV touting your handicapping "greatness" while always deflecting to unsupportable events up to 40 years ago.

Again you ducked the issue YOU brought up regarding GBC. You must think or at least hope, as kew always did, that no one's paying attention whenever you're caught in another lie or you change the subject. Next we'll hear about how close a relationship you have in your many visits to Gaming Today.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

You continue to say that BS because you know the soliciting was sent via texting.

If you're not selling yourself then why spend so much effort here and at WoV touting your handicapping "greatness" while always deflecting to unsupportable events up to 40 years ago.

Again you ducked the issue YOU brought up regarding GBC. You must think or at least hope, as kew always did, that no one's paying attention whenever you're caught in another lie or you change the subject. Next we'll hear about how close a relationship you have in your many visits to Gaming Today.

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I'm going to be very patient with my boy. If anyone has any evidence via PM or email or TEXT that I solicited anything from anyone, a 5K reward is yours. Sorry, I forgot to mention texting. Like Machete, I don't do much texting, unless Jessica Alba is on the other end. So if anyone has any evidence I did any of that, please post it here or contact Todd directly via PM and send it to him ASAP. I'll pay 5K and apologize profusely to Mr. "Singer." In fact, I should start a thread just for this purpose and update it with another request for such evidence monthly.

Great idea, eh?

Meanwhile, Rob, why don't you tell us about your GBC book contract? I'm sure the forum would love to know what you were paid. And again, that is a tricky question.

Finally, the Wise Guys Contest is still ongoing in 2020. So when I say I've been in it for 30 years, I'm not talking about ancient history. In fact, I think the link shows me finishing tied for third in 2017. That would be www.playbook.com//Vegas-Wise-Guys/

Rob, do you have any more questions? I'm here to help.

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

why spend so much effort here and at WoV touting your handicapping "greatness"

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Good question...why?...what is he up to?

It would be so easy to post evidence of winning plays and overall success, but he's never done that...yet he expects to be recognized as a winner.

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Originally Posted by coach belly

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

why spend so much effort here and at WoV touting your handicapping "greatness"

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Good question...why?...what is he up to?

It would be so easy to post evidence of winning plays and overall success, but he's never done that...yet he expects to be recognized as a winner.

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I refer you to "Tipsters or Gypsters?" and the Wise Guys Contest. I also refer to you my wonderful late cousin, E.R.Dietz, and his plays in the Retro Road Trip thread. It's only a rumor thus far, but I hear that E.R. may be coming back from the dead next month.

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Originally Posted by redietz

I refer you to "Tipsters or Gypsters?" and the Wise Guys Contest. I also refer to you my wonderful late cousin, E.R.Dietz...I hear that E.R. may be coming back from the dead next month.

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I haven't been able to find any online information pertaining to "Tipsters or Gypsters?", and you have steadfastly refused to share any information from that source.

The link you provided earlier for the Wise Guys contest doesn't display any relevant information either.

You have spent years referring to these dead ends, it would have been better to provide content or links that work from the beginning.

Regarding your cousin, are you confessing to lying about him?

I’ve come to the conclusion that there are more members here and all other gambling forums who claim to be successful gamblers one-way or the other. So, what’s the purpose of being a forum member.

From what I’ve read over the years it is considered taboo to discuss any plays. Fifteen or so alleged AP’s including the famous AP AxelWolf left the WOV because DarkOz revealed a decade old dead play. Let’s see how long that exodus lasts. I’m convinced those AP members there and here just can’t live without constantly blowing smoke up everyone’s asses about how smart they are beating billion-dollar casinos while us idiots keep their stocks rising.

I love all the claims of people joining these forums to learn AP moves. The only information they could find is how fucking stupid they are, how successful others were and still are AP’ing, or if their presently homeless maybe a better way than searching out deposit bottles or holding a tin cup. I do recall reading how some tin cup holders are doing pretty well.

I wish one of these mathematicians who swear by the math being the facts of life, could figure out the odds of a person getting educated and developing a successful career with a solid future when compared to accomplishing the same with just gambling of any kind.

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Originally Posted by blackhole

I’ve come to the conclusion that there are more members here and all other gambling forums who claim to be successful gamblers one-way or the other. So, what’s the purpose of being a forum member.

From what I’ve read over the years it is considered taboo to discuss any plays. Fifteen or so alleged AP’s including the famous AP AxelWolf left the WOV because DarkOz revealed a decade old dead play. Let’s see how long that exodus lasts. I’m convinced those AP members there and here just can’t live without constantly blowing smoke up everyone’s asses about how smart they are beating billion-dollar casinos while us idiots keep their stocks rising.

I love all the claims of people joining these forums to learn AP moves. The only information they could find is how fucking stupid they are, how successful others were and still are AP’ing, or if their presently homeless maybe a better way than searching out deposit bottles or holding a tin cup. I do recall reading how some tin cup holders are doing pretty well.

I wish one of these mathematicians who swear by the math being the facts of life, could figure out the odds of a person getting educated and developing a successful career with a solid future when compared to accomplishing the same with just gambling of any kind.

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If you want to land a spacecraft on the moon you better have your math together. No pie in the sky voodoo stuff. It wont work for landing on the moon and/or strategic gambling.

I'm with Blackhole on this one. All the past few years of watching others and playing myself have taught me the machines defy the math.

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Originally Posted by slingshot

I'm with Blackhole on this one. All the past few years of watching others and playing myself have taught me the machines defy the math.

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24 years of playing machines by the math and I've done very well. As in no day job necessary. How about you?

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Originally Posted by slingshot

I'm with Blackhole on this one. All the past few years of watching others and playing myself have taught me the machines defy the math.

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If math doesn't work, then how the fuck do casinos stay in business ?

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Blackhole's post got me to thinking about this


Dan is one of the world's greatest poker players - maybe in the top 200 in the world or maybe in the top 100 - maybe even higher than that - I'm not exactly sure


and he probably makes a good living but I don't think he's rich - wealthy


Dan, if I'm mistaken about this and you are wealthy you can correct me and I apologize


it's like you have to be in the top 25 or maybe even the top 10 to be wealthy


in basketball if you were in the top 200 in the world you would be in the NBA and making at least, 6 or 700K per year - maybe even more - even if you were warming the bench


pretty depressing when you think about it

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by coach belly

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

why spend so much effort here and at WoV touting your handicapping "greatness"

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Good question...why?...what is he up to?

It would be so easy to post evidence of winning plays and overall success, but he's never done that...yet he expects to be recognized as a winner.

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I refer you to "Tipsters or Gypsters?" and the Wise Guys Contest. I also refer to you my wonderful late cousin, E.R.Dietz, and his plays in the Retro Road Trip thread. It's only a rumor thus far, but I hear that E.R. may be coming back from the dead next month.

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Good to see you (Rob) and Coach back again to give this forum a little balance. And though I for the most don't participate any longer, when I do I do usually align with you on most issues, in fairness the following is an excerpt from a PM that Redietz sent to me on September 3 last year.

"So we have San Fran at 40-1 (bad number) and 20-1 to win the NFC. We have Michigan State at 18-1 to win the Big 10 and 200-1 to win the whole enchilada. If their defense could play offense and defense, they'd have a chance. Big 10 looks loaded. We also took a flyer on Air Force at 11-1 to win the Mountain West. That'll be dead after the first conference game as they play Boise first. That's all we did thus far."

This of course proves nothing, but it does at least show that he probably was making this play on San Fran. I have in years past also mentioned that I had confirmed some of his info but I have no idea where in these many threads it can be found now.

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Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

24 years of playing machines by the math and I've done very well. As in no day job necessary. How about you?

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35 years of pissing money away in casinos all over the world and I’ve done very well. As in yes, I had a day job

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Originally Posted by tableplay

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Originally Posted by slingshot

I'm with Blackhole on this one. All the past few years of watching others and playing myself have taught me the machines defy the math.

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If math doesn't work, then how the fuck do casinos stay in business ?

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That is correctomundo! Their math is long term and they always come out ahead. Theyl are programmed that way.

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Originally Posted by coach belly

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

why spend so much effort here and at WoV touting your handicapping "greatness"

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Good question...why?...what is he up to?

It would be so easy to post evidence of winning plays and overall success, but he's never done that...yet he expects to be recognized as a winner.

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And he never will because he makes minimal money being a donkey for a bunch of handicappers...the ones who said he gave them my phone number from when I posted all my numbers. So when he deflects to "gee Rob, blah blah blah" it's just more of his sleazy deflection. And his other diversion is about my book contract. That's why I said that if any woman was ever stupid enough to marry this slimy guy, suicide had to look more and more attractive as the days took forever to go by.

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Originally Posted by regnis

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Originally Posted by redietz

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Originally Posted by coach belly

Good question...why?...what is he up to?

It would be so easy to post evidence of winning plays and overall success, but he's never done that...yet he expects to be recognized as a winner.

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I refer you to "Tipsters or Gypsters?" and the Wise Guys Contest. I also refer to you my wonderful late cousin, E.R.Dietz, and his plays in the Retro Road Trip thread. It's only a rumor thus far, but I hear that E.R. may be coming back from the dead next month.

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Good to see you (Rob) and Coach back again to give this forum a little balance. And though I for the most don't participate any longer, when I do I do usually align with you on most issues, in fairness the following is an excerpt from a PM that Redietz sent to me on September 3 last year.

"So we have San Fran at 40-1 (bad number) and 20-1 to win the NFC. We have Michigan State at 18-1 to win the Big 10 and 200-1 to win the whole enchilada. If their defense could play offense and defense, they'd have a chance. Big 10 looks loaded. We also took a flyer on Air Force at 11-1 to win the Mountain West. That'll be dead after the first conference game as they play Boise first. That's all we did thus far."

This of course proves nothing, but it does at least show that he probably was making this play on San Fran. I have in years past also mentioned that I had confirmed some of his info but I have no idea where in these many threads it can be found now.

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Red claims to be a luminary in the handicapping business. So he says in a note that he picked SF to win the NFC. I did the same thing with a $40k+ winning 5-team NFL parlay bet in Tahoe 5 years or so ago, and I posted the teams and odds right here. My claim is that I'm nothing but an amateur. Yet this "pro" redietz never posts any plays like that or SF to back up all his smack talk. After this long, he needs to do that or continue being laughed at. Even the tolerant liberals on WoV have had enuf of this soliciting BS artist.

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Originally Posted by slingshot

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Originally Posted by tableplay

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Originally Posted by slingshot

I'm with Blackhole on this one. All the past few years of watching others and playing myself have taught me the machines defy the math.

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If math doesn't work, then how the fuck do casinos stay in business ?

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That is correctomundo! Their math is long term and they always come out ahead. Theyl are programmed that way.

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I’m programmed that way too.

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Originally Posted by blackhole

I’ve come to the conclusion that there are more members here and all other gambling forums who claim to be successful gamblers one-way or the other. So, what’s the purpose of being a forum member.

From what I’ve read over the years it is considered taboo to discuss any plays. Fifteen or so alleged AP’s including the famous AP AxelWolf left the WOV because DarkOz revealed a decade old dead play. Let’s see how long that exodus lasts. I’m convinced those AP members there and here just can’t live without constantly blowing smoke up everyone’s asses about how smart they are beating billion-dollar casinos while us idiots keep their stocks rising.

I love all the claims of people joining these forums to learn AP moves. The only information they could find is how fucking stupid they are, how successful others were and still are AP’ing, or if their presently homeless maybe a better way than searching out deposit bottles or holding a tin cup. I do recall reading how some tin cup holders are doing pretty well.

I wish one of these mathematicians who swear by the math being the facts of life, could figure out the odds of a person getting educated and developing a successful career with a solid future when compared to accomplishing the same with just gambling of any kind.

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I was working on Wall Street on the Buy Side and read a book on card counting in BJ and rest was history. I met Kim Lee, the guy who did the math on Kill Phil series, on bj21.com and we had lunch a few time. Kim Lee was working for Goldman Sachs at the time. I met a ton of really bright people who had PhD’s who introduced me to a way of approaching the casinos. I got my start in blackjack bankrolling a few players (btw, I had my share of being scammed). I got good at video poker and did a lot of contributions on Skip Hughes’ message board. A question on WizardofVegas got me back to posting online ... btw, that question was answered 20 years ago.

I’m not an AP but I know AP’s who make high six figures a year. I won’t tell you where I made my money from the casinos, but I retired a few years ago to Roseville, CA and then decided to leave the Northern California bonus hustler scene because it wasn’t safe.

I am very lucky to have made money from my days on Wall Street, the huge stock market run from 2009 to present, and that I met the right people who were some of the smartest people in certain aspects of beating the casino: team play, hustling promo’s, hustling mailer’s, chasing progressives, etc.

Randy McKay tweeted a story about his Deuces Wild days and the guy who tipped him off. I know that guy (I mean I know his face) who tipped McKay off ... he is the smartest guy in Cali and makes 6 figures a year. That guy is an AP. That guy goes around picking up thousands a week in free play offer. So AP’s do exist.

As for me, I’m not an AP. I am so tired of the current bonus slot environment that I look forward to enjoying my weekends away from the smoke and noise of being in casinos. I had my fun and look forward to my next chapter in life, which will involve a lot of volunteer work. I had a nice 20+ year run because I got good at something after meeting the right people. I really lucked out meeting the right people when I started. Btw, I still remembered when I first made money on Piggy Bankin’ and got hooked on bonus slots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackhole

I’ve come to the conclusion that there are more members here and all other gambling forums who claim to be successful gamblers one-way or the other. So, what’s the purpose of being a forum member.

From what I’ve read over the years it is considered taboo to discuss any plays. Fifteen or so alleged AP’s including the famous AP AxelWolf left the WOV because DarkOz revealed a decade old dead play. Let’s see how long that exodus lasts. I’m convinced those AP members there and here just can’t live without constantly blowing smoke up everyone’s asses about how smart they are beating billion-dollar casinos while us idiots keep their stocks rising.

I love all the claims of people joining these forums to learn AP moves. The only information they could find is how fucking stupid they are, how successful others were and still are AP’ing, or if their presently homeless maybe a better way than searching out deposit bottles or holding a tin cup. I do recall reading how some tin cup holders are doing pretty well.

I wish one of these mathematicians who swear by the math being the facts of life, could figure out the odds of a person getting educated and developing a successful career with a solid future when compared to accomplishing the same with just gambling of any kind.

---

I was working on Wall Street on the Buy Side and read a book on card counting in BJ and rest was history. I met Kim Lee, the guy who did the math on Kill Phil series, on bj21.com and we had lunch a few time. Kim Lee was working for Goldman Sachs at the time. I met a ton of really bright people who had PhD’s who introduced me to a way of approaching the casinos. I got my start in blackjack bankrolling a few players (btw, I had my share of being scammed). I got good at video poker and did a lot of contributions on Skip Hughes’ message board. A question on WizardofVegas got me back to posting online ... btw, that question was answered 20 years ago.

I’m not an AP but I know AP’s who make high six figures a year. I won’t tell you where I made my money from the casinos, but I retired a few years ago to Roseville, CA and then decided to leave the Northern California bonus hustler scene because it wasn’t safe.

I am very lucky to have made money from my days on Wall Street, the huge stock market run from 2009 to present, and that I met the right people who were some of the smartest people in certain aspects of beating the casino: team play, hustling promo’s, hustling mailer’s, chasing progressives, etc.

Randy McKay tweeted a story about his Deuces Wild days and the guy who tipped him off. I know that guy (I mean I know his face) who tipped McKay off ... he is the smartest guy in Cali and makes 6 figures a year. That guy is an AP. That guy goes around picking up thousands a week in free play offer. So AP’s do exist.

As for me, I’m not an AP. I am so tired of the current bonus slot environment that I look forward to enjoying my weekends away from the smoke and noise of being in casinos. I had my fun and look forward to my next chapter in life, which will involve a lot of volunteer work. I had a nice 20+ year run because I got good at something after meeting the right people. I really lucked out meeting the right people when I started. Btw, I still remembered when I first made money on Piggy Bankin’ and got hooked on bonus slots.

---

Yah you're the man. The greatest thing since sliced bread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tableplay

Yah you're the man. The greatest thing since sliced bread.

---

I don’t play a lot of high variance sh*t. I thought I made it clear when I posted: I am not a FAN ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tableplay

Yah you're the man. The greatest thing since sliced bread.

---

I don’t play a lot of high variance sh*t. I thought I made it clear when I posted: I am not a FAN ...

---

What the fuck is going on with the non-sequiturs ? Are you on acid ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackhole

I’ve come to the conclusion that there are more members here and all other gambling forums who claim to be successful gamblers one-way or the other. So, what’s the purpose of being a forum member.

From what I’ve read over the years it is considered taboo to discuss any plays. Fifteen or so alleged AP’s including the famous AP AxelWolf left the WOV because DarkOz revealed a decade old dead play. Let’s see how long that exodus lasts. I’m convinced those AP members there and here just can’t live without constantly blowing smoke up everyone’s asses about how smart they are beating billion-dollar casinos while us idiots keep their stocks rising.

I love all the claims of people joining these forums to learn AP moves. The only information they could find is how fucking stupid they are, how successful others were and still are AP’ing, or if their presently homeless maybe a better way than searching out deposit bottles or holding a tin cup. I do recall reading how some tin cup holders are doing pretty well.

I wish one of these mathematicians who swear by the math being the facts of life, could figure out the odds of a person getting educated and developing a successful career with a solid future when compared to accomplishing the same with just gambling of any kind.

---

For the record, I only went on hiatus for an undetermined amount of time in support others I respect and like. At no time did I say I was leaving The Forum permanently. In my opinion, I don't think it was the right move for people to leave the forum. It seemed to me some ego played a part in people leaving. At some point it no longer seemed to be about protecting Advantage, it seems like it was out of aggravation, "if you don't agree with me then, f*** you."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AxelWolf

For the record, I only went on hiatus for an undetermined amount of time in support others I respect and like. At no time did I say I was leaving The Forum permanently. In my opinion, I don't think it was the right move for people to leave the forum. It seemed to me some ego played a part in people leaving. At some point it no longer seemed to be about protecting Advantage, it seems like it was out of aggravation, "if you don't agree with me then, f*** you."

---

Glad to know that Axel, the top cop monitor and protector of AP discussions on assorted gambling sites was only taking a vacation in support of his fellow alleged online AP monitors.

Obviously, our new recent member here Ex-AP’s assorted alleged gambling discussions are of no concern to you. This should confirm he’s only here to brag and impress the rest of us stupid gambling assholes with his alleged past history since you have no comment.

Once again, I’m forced to the conclusion that alleged successful AP’s or alleged clever successful gamblers for others that don’t consider themselves AP’s, are only here to remind the dumb ass gambling fools like myself just how fucking stupid we are.

As an outside observer it also appears that Shank at WOV (your headquarters) didn't agree with you and your friends you stood up for. He not only said fuck you he said fuck off in so many words to all of you, and don’t let the door smack you in the ass.

It’s also obvious you’ll return. Do you have any self-dignity left?

deleted. duplicate

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackhole

I’ve come to the conclusion that there are more members here and all other gambling forums who claim to be successful gamblers one-way or the other. So, what’s the purpose of being a forum member.

From what I’ve read over the years it is considered taboo to discuss any plays. Fifteen or so alleged AP’s including the famous AP AxelWolf left the WOV because DarkOz revealed a decade old dead play. Let’s see how long that exodus lasts. I’m convinced those AP members there and here just can’t live without constantly blowing smoke up everyone’s asses about how smart they are beating billion-dollar casinos while us idiots keep their stocks rising.

I love all the claims of people joining these forums to learn AP moves. The only information they could find is how fucking stupid they are, how successful others were and still are AP’ing, or if their presently homeless maybe a better way than searching out deposit bottles or holding a tin cup. I do recall reading how some tin cup holders are doing pretty well.

I wish one of these mathematicians who swear by the math being the facts of life, could figure out the odds of a person getting educated and developing a successful career with a solid future when compared to accomplishing the same with just gambling of any kind.

---

If you want to land a spacecraft on the moon you better have your math together. No pie in the sky voodoo stuff. It wont work for landing on the moon and/or strategic gambling.[/QUOTE]

I've always said and believed that a person with the right stuff to consistently beat gambling in the long term would do much better in the business world. It comes down to lifestyle choice. I could have bought my way into some kind of retail business years ago. But compared to my freewheeling lifestyle I figured it would be like buying a ball and chain so never made a move. Now I'm of the age-and after the heart attack-where I don't want to work so hard. I'm finally on the government dole, as in SS. And I still have my bankroll. I've really slowed down on the casino visits but still picking up some change in them. Buying a business at my age is out of the question.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackhole

I’ve come to the conclusion that there are more members here and all other gambling forums who claim to be successful gamblers one-way or the other. So, what’s the purpose of being a forum member.

From what I’ve read over the years it is considered taboo to discuss any plays. Fifteen or so alleged AP’s including the famous AP AxelWolf left the WOV because DarkOz revealed a decade old dead play. Let’s see how long that exodus lasts. I’m convinced those AP members there and here just can’t live without constantly blowing smoke up everyone’s asses about how smart they are beating billion-dollar casinos while us idiots keep their stocks rising.

I love all the claims of people joining these forums to learn AP moves. The only information they could find is how fucking stupid they are, how successful others were and still are AP’ing, or if their presently homeless maybe a better way than searching out deposit bottles or holding a tin cup. I do recall reading how some tin cup holders are doing pretty well.

I wish one of these mathematicians who swear by the math being the facts of life, could figure out the odds of a person getting educated and developing a successful career with a solid future when compared to accomplishing the same with just gambling of any kind.

---

I was working on Wall Street on the Buy Side and read a book on card counting in BJ and rest was history. I met Kim Lee, the guy who did the math on Kill Phil series, on bj21.com and we had lunch a few time. Kim Lee was working for Goldman Sachs at the time. I met a ton of really bright people who had PhD’s who introduced me to a way of approaching the casinos. I got my start in blackjack bankrolling a few players (btw, I had my share of being scammed). I got good at video poker and did a lot of contributions on Skip Hughes’ message board. A question on WizardofVegas got me back to posting online ... btw, that question was answered 20 years ago.

I’m not an AP but I know AP’s who make high six figures a year. I won’t tell you where I made my money from the casinos, but I retired a few years ago to Roseville, CA and then decided to leave the Northern California bonus hustler scene because it wasn’t safe.

I am very lucky to have made money from my days on Wall Street, the huge stock market run from 2009 to present, and that I met the right people who were some of the smartest people in certain aspects of beating the casino: team play, hustling promo’s, hustling mailer’s, chasing progressives, etc.

Randy McKay tweeted a story about his Deuces Wild days and the guy who tipped him off. I know that guy (I mean I know his face) who tipped McKay off ... he is the smartest guy in Cali and makes 6 figures a year. That guy is an AP. That guy goes around picking up thousands a week in free play offer. So AP’s do exist.

As for me, I’m not an AP. I am so tired of the current bonus slot environment that I look forward to enjoying my weekends away from the smoke and noise of being in casinos. I had my fun and look forward to my next chapter in life, which will involve a lot of volunteer work. I had a nice 20+ year run because I got good at something after meeting the right people. I really lucked out meeting the right people when I started. Btw, I still remembered when I first made money on Piggy Bankin’ and got hooked on bonus slots.

---

I know the guy too. Haven't seen him since 2002 but we were good friends. Is he still with that Mississippi chick? Probably not. I also picked it up off Randy that "A." was doing well with the freeplay in northern cali. It's been in the grapevine that freeplay is good there for years.

PS: For years I avoided places that were saturated with hustlers. Don't like those kind of spots.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tableplay

Yah you're the man. The greatest thing since sliced bread.

---

I don’t play a lot of high variance sh*t. I thought I made it clear when I posted: I am not a FAN ...

---

Whenever anyone says "I can't win at gambling but thank goodness! my wife MORE THAN makes up for my losses" or "I know X number of gamblers or AP's who make six figures a year at it" there's a 100% probability that it's all BS. Nobody knows a thing about how somebody else does in casinos unless they spend every moment by their side. Otherwise, what you get are claims like this.

You made a bundle because of the stock market? Anybody with a functioning brain and anyone with a 401k has made varying amounts of "bundles" in recent years. Even warehousemen, line assemblers, dispatchers and janitors in any companies with retirement savings plans have made comparative bundles.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

You made a bundle because of the stock market? Anybody with a functioning brain and anyone with a 401k has made varying amounts of "bundles" in recent years. Even warehousemen, line assemblers, dispatchers and janitors in any companies with retirement savings plans have made comparative bundles.

---

an awful lot of people didn't make money during the market run up - or made much less than they should have - because they tried to time the market and they failed

a lot of millennials pulled out of the market during 2008 and never got back in - they got scared and missed out -

a lot that did aggressive trading instead of buying low and selling high ended up buying high and selling low - thought they could time stuff but they couldn't

studies have shown that the vast majority of mom and pop investors have much worse performance than the indexes - they picked the wrong stuff

so, IMO those that did do well, although they're not geniuses, they deserve some credit - they hung tough during the big down times and didn't panic - and they didn't buy overpriced stuff that's likely to get creamed much worse than the indexes during a downturn

Those who have 401k's through their employers couldn't help but do fantastic. That includes a LOT of people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blackhole

Obviously, our new recent member here Ex-AP’s assorted alleged gambling discussions are of no concern to you. This should confirm he’s only here to brag and impress the rest of us stupid gambling assholes with his alleged past history since you have no comment.

---

Axel and I had a conversation on WofVegas and Axel thanked me for using the term “Scavenger” as opposed to vulture. Axel advised me on WoV that it was Frank Kneeland (guy who ran progressive VP teams and even write a book) was the guy reading a book at Flush Attack.

Btw, I knew DarkOZ was a d*ckhead and was not surprised that he got a ban on WoV.

I also love reading how blackhole is so b*ttburt for making dumb comments.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Whenever anyone says "I can't win at gambling but thank goodness! my wife MORE THAN makes up for my losses" or "I know X number of gamblers or AP's who make six figures a year at it" there's a 100% probability that it's all BS. Nobody knows a thing about how somebody else does in casinos unless they spend every moment by their side. Otherwise, what you get are claims like this.

---

1. You can always tell the bullspit artists like Singer based on very general comments that lack any specificities.

2. In the AP industry, you know how smart some is based on two things:
- they are playing the opportunity
- they can find the opportunity

I don’t have to be there to know the smartest guy in California, one guy that Mickey Crimm falls “A”, was the likely suspect who burned out the 5 for 2 VBJ at Colusa.

You need a certain amount of IQ to put together these plays. Anyone can spot the obvious plays; but the high level plays are decidedly non-obvious without the requisite AP IQ. The rest of the AP’s find out after the fact and then perform a postmortem to figure who were the likely candidates (because we like to know our competitors). There are not many high IQ AP players in Northern California. I am one of them but I retired. Tracker is another but he finds games, not burn them out. This guy “A” has a long history of burning out plays. They are a few others.

And we know after speaking with certain people who were there that it could have been a Las Vegas team or Reno team. We found out through multiple sources that a Las Vegas team burnt out the play in Black Oak in Sept 2018. So we don’t have to be there to see it happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackhole

Obviously, our new recent member here Ex-AP’s assorted alleged gambling discussions are of no concern to you. This should confirm he’s only here to brag and impress the rest of us stupid gambling assholes with his alleged past history since you have no comment.

---

Axel and I had a conversation on WofVegas and Axel thanked me for using the term “Scavenger” as opposed to vulture. Axel advised me on WoV that it was Frank Kneeland (guy who ran progressive VP teams and even write a book) was the guy reading a book at Flush Attack.

Btw, I knew DarkOZ was a d*ckhead and was not surprised that he got a ban on WoV.

I also love reading how blackhole is so b*ttburt for making dumb comments.

---

The best part about Blackhole is he is too dumb to even grasp when you drop hints to people who don't know stuff. He just whines because no one will spell out anything for him A B C. He feels people owe him that out of some weird sense of entitlement. There are a few others, but he is one of the worst.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Whenever anyone says "I can't win at gambling but thank goodness! my wife MORE THAN makes up for my losses" or "I know X number of gamblers or AP's who make six figures a year at it" there's a 100% probability that it's all BS. Nobody knows a thing about how somebody else does in casinos unless they spend every moment by their side. Otherwise, what you get are claims like this.

---

1. You can always tell the bullspit artists like Singer based on very general comments that lack any specificities.

2. In the AP industry, you know how smart some is based on two things:
- they are playing the opportunity
- they can find the opportunity

I don’t have to be there to know the smartest guy in California, one guy that Mickey Crimm falls “A”, was the likely suspect who burned out the 5 for 2 VBJ at Colusa.

You need a certain amount of IQ to put together these plays. Anyone can spot the obvious plays; but the high level plays are decidedly non-obvious without the requisite AP IQ. The rest of the AP’s find out after the fact and then perform a postmortem to figure who were the likely candidates (because we like to know our competitors). There are not many high IQ AP players in Northern California. I am one of them but I retired. Tracker is another but he finds games, not burn them out. This guy “A” has a long history of burning out plays. They are a few others.

And we know after speaking with certain people who were there that it could have been a Las Vegas team or Reno team. We found out through multiple sources that a Las Vegas team burnt out the play in Black Oak in Sept 2018. So we don’t have to be there to see it happen.

---

Which team(s) burned out the triple and five play high limit APDW (+EV with card) at Colusa several years back ? I enjoyed getting the DW 5ofK progressives (reset 100 coins) that the bus people would leave, but that was about a decade ago.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Whenever anyone says "I can't win at gambling but thank goodness! my wife MORE THAN makes up for my losses" or "I know X number of gamblers or AP's who make six figures a year at it" there's a 100% probability that it's all BS. Nobody knows a thing about how somebody else does in casinos unless they spend every moment by their side. Otherwise, what you get are claims like this.

---

1. You can always tell the bullspit artists like Singer based on very general comments that lack any specificities.

2. In the AP industry, you know how smart some is based on two things:
- they are playing the opportunity
- they can find the opportunity

I don’t have to be there to know the smartest guy in California, one guy that Mickey Crimm falls “A”, was the likely suspect who burned out the 5 for 2 VBJ at Colusa.

You need a certain amount of IQ to put together these plays. Anyone can spot the obvious plays; but the high level plays are decidedly non-obvious without the requisite AP IQ. The rest of the AP’s find out after the fact and then perform a postmortem to figure who were the likely candidates (because we like to know our competitors). There are not many high IQ AP players in Northern California. I am one of them but I retired. Tracker is another but he finds games, not burn them out. This guy “A” has a long history of burning out plays. They are a few others.

And we know after speaking with certain people who were there that it could have been a Las Vegas team or Reno team. We found out through multiple sources that a Las Vegas team burnt out the play in Black Oak in Sept 2018. So we don’t have to be there to see it happen.

---

The trick to the 5 for 2 vbj play was knowing how to get the correct strategy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackhole

I wish one of these mathematicians who swear by the math being the facts of life, could figure out the odds of a person getting educated and developing a successful career with a solid future when compared to accomplishing the same with just gambling of any kind.

---

This right here may explain your difficulties. This AP shit is not necessarily the way people see to maximizing their money in life. Having a career has a lot of assorted costs. One of those costs is having to deal with people such as yourself. This in itself makes it pretty much something you can't comprehend. Having a career means you have to behave and go by some set of rules. These rules come from exactly where modern society all agrees with itself. You have one life though, and I'd rather do something else. You want to meet successful gamblers? I can take you to a local pokerroom and point out the pros. They come and go, a few stick with it. Some figure $15 an hour isn't worth the swings. Others get tired of making $50+/hour. Outside of maybe 5 guys in town none of these gamblers live a life I'd consider worth ever bragging about. All those guys put in far more hours than me. It isn't about the money though, it is about doing what you want. "get educated". Epic. If I was to brag on my degree, you'd just call me a liar. I don't like to behave. I like to be able to stay up and drink and play cards or do what have you. I work too though, but it is always on my terms. You don't seem to get any of this. You have a strange entitlement expecting people to prove things to you. (yes, some of them may be bs artists like Rob Singer, deal with it.) You also seem to be so simple that you see one's networth as the sole indicator of one's success in life and fail to consider what they had to spend their life on to get those networth figures.


Your bitterness is some exceptional. Your choice of name is fitting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackhole

I wish one of these mathematicians who swear by the math being the facts of life, could figure out the odds of a person getting educated and developing a successful career with a solid future when compared to accomplishing the same with just gambling of any kind.

---

This right here may explain your difficulties. This AP shit is not necessarily the way people see to maximizing their money in life. Having a career has a lot of assorted costs. One of those costs is having to deal with people such as yourself. This in itself makes it pretty much something you can't comprehend. Having a career means you have to behave and go by some set of rules. These rules come from exactly where modern society all agrees with itself. You have one life though, and I'd rather do something else. You want to meet successful gamblers? I can take you to a local pokerroom and point out the pros. They come and go, a few stick with it. Some figure $15 an hour isn't worth the swings. Others get tired of making $50+/hour. Outside of maybe 5 guys in town none of these gamblers live a life I'd consider worth ever bragging about. All those guys put in far more hours than me. It isn't about the money though, it is about doing what you want. "get educated". Epic. If I was to brag on my degree, you'd just call me a liar. I don't like to behave. I like to be able to stay up and drink and play cards or do what have you. I work too though, but it is always on my terms. You don't seem to get any of this. You have a strange entitlement expecting people to prove things to you. (yes, some of them may be bs artists like Rob Singer, deal with it.) You also seem to be so simple that you see one's networth as the sole indicator of one's success in life and fail to consider what they had to spend their life on to get those networth figures.


Your bitterness is some exceptional. Your choice of name is fitting.

---

You and that moron Ex-Ap are so agitated by other people's opinions. All that BH is saying is that most of the self-annointed AP's around here come off as they can do no wrong and see it as the ability to lead unmatched lives because of it. But everyone knows, including you two, that it's far easier to make far more money in the working world. And you'll go around believing anyone who pops on to any gambling forum who says they're an AP, yet if someone claims they made a fortune or did well in the business world while even slightly questioning any AP claims, you guys have a tantrum of "it's all bs". He chooses not to believe AP's on forums. So what. Most people on forums don't believe me. It doesn't change one thing. Get over it.

Watching ex-ap slobber over all these supposed six figure ap's immediately sticks out like a sore thumb. Sure he can say "these guys know their stuff and can spot a play a mile away...and they TOLD me that they made a bundle hammering the hell out of them". Big whoop--anyone can tell you anything. And even if they're driving high priced cars it means nothing. Being an AP does not guarantee anyone anything. I failed at it for 6 years, Shack failed at the machines and maybe other games, and ANYBODY can fail at it. Of course some don't. But you have no idea who they are.

Wise up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tableplay

Which team(s) burned out the triple and five play high limit APDW (+EV with card) at Colusa several years back ? I enjoyed getting the DW 5ofK progressives (reset 100 coins) that the bus people would leave, but that was about a decade ago.

---

1. It was October 2010 when it happen (going off my memory based on conversation with vpfree2 reporter)

2. Colusa changed it’s coin in to get 1 point to 800 from 650 due to AP.

3. It was one white guy with fanny bag by his belly. He showed in August to play multiplier promo up to 8X later in the night / early morning. Other smarter AP’s were playing 5 for 2 VBJ (the good type with split ace catch face pats 3:2 except on dealer BJ) at $50 a pop in high limit while this AP was banging away on APDW, which shows you how dumb this AP was.

4. This AP lucked out when the other AP couldn’t show up. It was a month long promo where it was hard to give away the prizes so the last week was ALL PRIZES MUST GO.

5. AP shows up with a lady friend called Flowers on that week. I know the AP’s full name but will not post it, e.g. Colusa kept announcing it when he won. This is public information but I am still not going to release the name.

6. AP stuff drum with ticket but fails to win $47,000 car but gets half the remaining prizes.

7. AP did not know 101%+ VP in the back room in Colusa next to Bingo Hall.

It was a case of AP lucking our being at the right place at the right time. If the AP stated he burned out the game; that was MISINFORMATION ... the bad promo structure p*ssed off the player base so there were WHOLESALE changes to everything: promo structure, games, etc

It WAS NOT A TEAM ... just one guy losing his dumb ass (this guy was LOSING BIG!!) while stuffing the drum without knowing other AP’s could have out-stuff him via $50 a pop VBJ. But, lucked out when other AP’s couldn’t make. One of the smarter AP was based in LA so he couldn’t make it that weekend. Talk about a MAJOR SUCKOUT.

Did not know the 101%+ VP
Did not know $50 VBJ with best rules.
The Colusa staff told the vpfree2 reporter that this AP was stuck for a lot of money ... before the Major SUCKOUT
AP never burn the game out, but it’s a nice fairy tale.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tableplay

Which team(s) burned out the triple and five play high limit APDW (+EV with card) at Colusa several years back ? I enjoyed getting the DW 5ofK progressives (reset 100 coins) that the bus people would leave, but that was about a decade ago.

---

1. It was October 2010 when it happen (going off my memory based on conversation with vpfree2 reporter)

2. Colusa changed it’s coin in to get 1 point to 800 from 650 due to AP.

3. It was one white guy with fanny bag by his belly. He showed in August to play multiplier promo up to 8X later in the night / early morning. Other smarter AP’s were playing 5 for 2 VBJ (the good type with split ace catch face pats 3:2 except on dealer BJ) at $50 a pop in high limit while this AP was banging away on APDW, which shows you how dumb this AP was.

4. This AP lucked out when the other AP couldn’t show up. It was a month long promo where it was hard to give away the prizes so the last week was ALL PRIZES MUST GO.

5. AP shows up with a lady friend called Flowers on that week. I know the AP’s full name but will not post it, e.g. Colusa kept announcing it when he won. This is public information but I am still not going to release the name.

6. AP stuff drum with ticket but fails to win $47,000 car but gets half the remaining prizes.

7. AP did not know 101%+ VP in the back room in Colusa next to Bingo Hall.

It was a case of AP lucking our being at the right place at the right time. If the AP stated he burned out the game; that was MISINFORMATION ... the bad promo structure p*ssed off the player base so there were WHOLESALE changes to everything: promo structure, games, etc

It WAS NOT A TEAM ... just one guy losing his dumb ass (this guy was LOSING BIG!!) while stuffing the drum without knowing other AP’s could have out-stuff him via $50 a pop VBJ. But, lucked out when other AP’s couldn’t make. One of the smarter AP was based in LA so he couldn’t make it that weekend. Talk about a MAJOR SUCKOUT.

Did not know the 101%+ VP
Did not know $50 VBJ with best rules.
The Colusa staff told the vpfree2 reporter that this AP was stuck for a lot of money ... before the Major SUCKOUT
AP never burn the game out, but it’s a nice fairy tale.

---

Thanks. I had no horse in the race, I was just curious since I was told it (APDW) had been torched by a team. Anyhow, the 100 coin reset 5ofK progressive DW got much higher than 101%, but of course it wasn't a constant play like the VBJ. There's no reason to do it [-EV], but for shits and giggles I played 2 nickels until I got a two-10 twenty (in Northern Nevada not Colusa) and split tens with dealer upcard of six just to see if it gave 5 for 2 for a two card BJ after a split twenty, and it does). These linked DW machines were also near the bingo hall IIRC and I think they were Spielo, but I'm not positive because that was a long time ago - the bus people would really drive that progressive up multiple times a day as every so often you'd get a 3 sigma event/cycle on the 5ofaK.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tableplay

Thanks. I had no horse in the race, I was just curious since I was told it (APDW) had been torched by a team.

---

Whoever told you (or whoever believed) the story had/has REALLY LOW IQ. The true story was the AP was in the hole for tens of thousands of dollars. Colusa actually made money from his play, e.g. the APDW machines made a ton of money for Colusa. The AP got some money back from points to free play and mailers and his major suckout.

High IQ people know it’s very hard to burn out a Moody’s N-Play for special reasons; part of the reason is you need to have high IQ in the first place to think about these special reasons.

The most likely outcome was the AP was dropping buckets of $ hoping to get it back in other forms of value. We call this losing sum certain money for sum uncertain outcomes.

Put it this way: that AP was a moron. Had Colusa not awarded all the remaining prizes, he would have been stuck for a lot of money.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tableplay

Thanks. I had no horse in the race, I was just curious since I was told it (APDW) had been torched by a team.

---

Whoever told you (or whoever believed) the story had/has REALLY LOW IQ. The true story was the AP was in the hole for tens of thousands of dollars. Colusa actually made money from his play, e.g. the APDW machines made a ton of money for Colusa. The AP got some money back from points to free play and mailers and his major suckout.

High IQ people know it’s very hard to burn out a Moody’s N-Play for special reasons; part of the reason is you need to have high IQ in the first place to think about these special reasons.

The most likely outcome was the AP was dropping buckets of $ hoping to get it back in other forms of value. We call this losing sum certain money for sum uncertain outcomes.

Put it this way: that AP was a moron. Had Colusa not awarded all the remaining prizes, he would have been stuck for a lot of money.

---

Really ? The 50-hand APDW at Rail city was completely torched. The combination of free play and food comps was in the thousands of dollars in equivalence. The low variance of the 50 hand APDW made it easy to torch it. Anyway I'd love to set up a prop bet with you to determine who has the higher IQ. We can get a neutral proctor who will keep each of us anonymous from the other and put some money in escrow. We can agree on a choice of IQ test as well (Stanford-Binet test is pretty reliable). What do you say ? It should be easy money for you.

BTW, what was the reason they removed the multi-hand APDW from Colusa if not for the reason of not being profitable ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by accountinquestion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blackhole

I wish one of these mathematicians who swear by the math being the facts of life, could figure out the odds of a person getting educated and developing a successful career with a solid future when compared to accomplishing the same with just gambling of any kind.

---

This right here may explain your difficulties. This AP shit is not necessarily the way people see to maximizing their money in life. Having a career has a lot of assorted costs. One of those costs is having to deal with people such as yourself. This in itself makes it pretty much something you can't comprehend. Having a career means you have to behave and go by some set of rules. These rules come from exactly where modern society all agrees with itself. You have one life though, and I'd rather do something else. You want to meet successful gamblers? I can take you to a local pokerroom and point out the pros. They come and go, a few stick with it. Some figure $15 an hour isn't worth the swings. Others get tired of making $50+/hour. Outside of maybe 5 guys in town none of these gamblers live a life I'd consider worth ever bragging about. All those guys put in far more hours than me. It isn't about the money though, it is about doing what you want. "get educated". Epic. If I was to brag on my degree, you'd just call me a liar. I don't like to behave. I like to be able to stay up and drink and play cards or do what have you. I work too though, but it is always on my terms. You don't seem to get any of this. You have a strange entitlement expecting people to prove things to you. (yes, some of them may be bs artists like Rob Singer, deal with it.) You also seem to be so simple that you see one's networth as the sole indicator of one's success in life and fail to consider what they had to spend their life on to get those networth figures.


Your bitterness is some exceptional. Your choice of name is fitting.

---

You and that moron Ex-Ap are so agitated by other people's opinions. All that BH is saying is that most of the self-annointed AP's around here come off as they can do no wrong and see it as the ability to lead unmatched lives because of it. But everyone knows, including you two, that it's far easier to make far more money in the working world. And you'll go around believing anyone who pops on to any gambling forum who says they're an AP, yet if someone claims they made a fortune or did well in the business world while even slightly questioning any AP claims, you guys have a tantrum of "it's all bs". He chooses not to believe AP's on forums. So what. Most people on forums don't believe me. It doesn't change one thing. Get over it.

Watching ex-ap slobber over all these supposed six figure ap's immediately sticks out like a sore thumb. Sure he can say "these guys know their stuff and can spot a play a mile away...and they TOLD me that they made a bundle hammering the hell out of them". Big whoop--anyone can tell you anything. And even if they're driving high priced cars it means nothing. Being an AP does not guarantee anyone anything. I failed at it for 6 years, Shack failed at the machines and maybe other games, and ANYBODY can fail at it. Of course some don't. But you have no idea who they are.

Wise up.

---

Rob you actually talk sense except I don't think many people on here care one way or another whether another poster is wealthy or not. Why would we care? You make up all these false issues. I only care about plays old and new. Old ones help you find new ones and finding a new play is just .. well fun. Thats about it. It is you guys who get so tied into proving this and that.

You guys get so caught up in the fact that people claim they are APs. It is really bizarre. I think I sorta understand what is going on motivation-wise. Maybe I am wising up ?

You also make more false claims. I don't care if you guys "slightly question APs" but that isn't what is going on. Anyway, keep up the amusing stuff fellas and just remember - Math *IS* Magic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tableplay

Really ? The 50-hand APDW at Rail city was completely torched. The combination of free play and food comps was in the thousands of dollars in equivalence. The low variance of the 50 hand APDW made it easy to torch it. Anyway I'd love to set up a prop bet with you to determine who has the higher IQ. We can get a neutral proctor who will keep each of us anonymous from the other and put some money in escrow. We can agree on a choice of IQ test as well (Stanford-Binet test is pretty reliable). What do you say ? It should be easy money for you.

BTW, what was the reason they removed the multi-hand APDW from Colusa if not for the reason of not being profitable ?

---

You can’t fix stupid.

1. The 50-play game at Rail City wasn’t low variance.

2. The 50-play game at Rail City didn’t lose money.

3. I wasn’t at Rail City, but the casino probably lost “value” due to something else. The 50-play was the “conduit” to accessing the “value”.

Here is how you spot a low IQ person: Suppose there are six birds on branch. A boy comes a long and picks up a stone; he throws the stone and knocks off one of the birds. How many birds are remaining?

Low IQ people will say 5 birds are remaining.

It’s the same low IQ tableplay who starts a flamewar over my post about FarmVille. No one else attacked over my post on FarmVille. I get private e-mails from people asking for help and the other people are smart enough to know I won’t help them if they attack me. The good information gets shared privately.

It’s the same dumbsh*t tableplay who uses “propagation” in 100-play but is too effen STUPID to understand the royal flush cycle can be bifurcated into dealt and non-dealt royals.

It the same moron called tableplay who can’t use “BJ speak” correctly. Talk about a babbling idiot.

Here are the facts: I only entertain tableplay’s posts to show everyone else how tableplay is dumber than shyte.

You can’t fix stupid people like tableplay.

I know one guy playing 1,200 base hands per hour on 9/6 JoB triple-play in dollars ($15 a spin) playing using basic strategy and lost over $15K in one day. Video poker is high variance and Moody’s patent adds more variance.

I said it before and I’ll say it again: tableplay is a fraud. There are so many holes with the Colusa story that any seasoned AP could easily spot them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ex-AP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tableplay

Really ? The 50-hand APDW at Rail city was completely torched. The combination of free play and food comps was in the thousands of dollars in equivalence. The low variance of the 50 hand APDW made it easy to torch it. Anyway I'd love to set up a prop bet with you to determine who has the higher IQ. We can get a neutral proctor who will keep each of us anonymous from the other and put some money in escrow. We can agree on a choice of IQ test as well (Stanford-Binet test is pretty reliable). What do you say ? It should be easy money for you.

BTW, what was the reason they removed the multi-hand APDW from Colusa if not for the reason of not being profitable ?

---

You can’t fix stupid.

1. The 50-play game at Rail City wasn’t low variance.

2. The 50-play game at Rail City didn’t lose money.

3. I wasn’t at Rail City, but the casino probably lost “value” due to something else. The 50-play was the “conduit” to accessing the “value”.

Here is how you spot a low IQ person: Suppose there are six birds on branch. A boy comes a long and picks up a stone; he throws the stone and knocks off one of the birds. How many birds are remaining?

Low IQ people will say 5 birds are remaining.

It’s the same low IQ tableplay who starts a flamewar over my post about FarmVille. No one else attacked over my post on FarmVille. I get private e-mails from people asking for help and the other people are smart enough to know I won’t help them if they attack me. The good information gets shared privately.

It’s the same dumbsh*t tableplay who uses “propagation” in 100-play but is too effen STUPID to understand the royal flush cycle can be bifurcated into dealt and non-dealt royals.

It the same moron called tableplay who can’t use “BJ speak” correctly. Talk about a babbling idiot.

Here are the facts: I only entertain tableplay’s posts to show everyone else how tableplay is dumber than shyte.

You can’t fix stupid people like tableplay.

I know one guy playing 1,200 base hands per hour on 9/6 JoB triple-play in dollars ($15 a spin) playing using basic strategy and lost over $15K in one day. Video poker is high variance and Moody’s patent adds more variance.

I said it before and I’ll say it again: tableplay is a fraud. There are so many holes with the Colusa story that any seasoned AP could easily spot them.

---

Yet you won't accept a prop bet for an IQ test. For the same coin-in, N-play vp is lower variance than 1-play. Recently the downtown grand in Vegas pulled their multi-hand full pay first before pulling their single hand full pay because of course it is a more dangerous game for the casino than the 1-play. I don't want your help and I could give a fuck what you think of me - why the fuck are you assuming I want your help ? - you're an idiot and a dick. Rag hands can be bifurcated into deal and draw cycles also. There is no Colusa "story" dumb-fuck. You state that if you don't use Markov chains for Scarab plays you are a fraud. For the infinitesimal gain in EV versus a rules-based decision on determining a play it wouldn't be worth it. It would be like hiring the Mars rover team to work out a plan for you to walk safely over to your next door neighbor's house versus just walking over there - the gain in safety is just noise. Anyway go fuck yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAomAwIwxm8

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAomAwIwxm8

---

It's the Trump syndrome- I'm right, you're wrong.

If you want to find the low IQ person in the room he’s the one calling other people low IQ.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

If you want to find the low IQ person in the room he’s the one calling other people low IQ.

---

That reminds me of a guy who said he tried to say someone wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and ended up saying something stupid himself, LMAO! "Not the sharpest shed in the tool," LMAO He admitted he thought it was instant karma for trying to insult someone else. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

If you want to find the low IQ person in the room he’s the one calling other people low IQ.

---

Mickey here's the answers to the windbag Ex-AP's/EVBandit's "hard" IQ questions (LMFAO):
1) No crows left on the branch, the rest fly away when the first one is stoned (this is probably one of the questions the Frat Boys/X water Polo team/rowing crew asked him at his call side interview for a Wall Street job - nowadays they only hire PhD physics majors and mathematicians for these sorts of jobs since it's all high frequency trading and frontrunning; he's lucky he interviewed back in the good ole days)
2) N-Play VP - mistakes are amplified if you make a hold mistake on the deal (like we didn't already know this).
3) Markov Chain Scarab (for regular scarab or scarab grand:again, who would bother - not worth the infinitesimal gain in EV versus simple human generated rules-based approach):
1) setup a MySQL database (free open source database) with the following fields/variables:
a) column # of scarab occurrence of last spin if spin one through nine (missing value symbol if 10th spin was last spin)
b) row # of scarab occurrence of last spin if spin one through nine (missing value symbol if 10th spin was last spin)
c) denomination
d) Most recent spin number (10 minus the # of spins left until Scarab explosion)
e) Number of scarabs on board after most recent spin (has a value of 0 just after explosion obviously)
f) # of scarabs in column 1 after most recent spin
g) # of scarabs in column 2 after most recent spin
h) # of scarabs in column 3 after most recent spin
i)# of scarabs in column 4 after most recent spin
j)# of scarabs in column 5 after most recent spin
k) number of units bet at current denomination
l) ID number for uniquely identifying the group of spins belonging to a 10-spin sequence. This ID number is unique with respect to each group. This is for the development of time series variables as needed for model refinement.

2) data gathering phase to populate database shown in step 1: lots and lots of Youtube footage and casino observation of other players playing scarab with pen camera in shirt recording game play, including high limit room scarab footage.

3) Run the database through a CART algorithm (SAS/jmp;SAS data miner;SAS catmod macro;matlab;Python or any other of dozens of freeware packages).
This will generate a classification and regression tree (which uses a Markov chain algorithm) which shows what the likelihood is of scarabs occurring in various configurations on the next spin.
The bottom line is once you have the youtube and in-casino footage and then have stored it in your database, you can play around with different variables and responses until you have a usable model (CART tree) for the casino.


Anyway, even though I just mind-flayed that bitch, expect him to come back with more windbag/anal retentive low IQ insults. Also, expect him not to take a prop-bet for an IQ contest, he'll just keep ignoring this request like he did in his other post. The piece of shit calls me a fraud, but I'm sure you and the other forum members remember me stating that I am a one-bit hustler, and that I make about $1500 a month. Never stated otherwise and it is 100% the truth.

Cheers, TP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

If you want to find the low IQ person in the room he’s the one calling other people low IQ.

---

You realize the member of this forum that most frequently calls other members "low IQ" is Rob Singer. Anyone can probably find 100 different examples. :rolleyes:

I disagree that the person calling others "low IQ" is probably the lowest IQ in the room. What he is, is the most insecure person in the room. And THAT in a nut shell is what this thread and forum is all about.

I have frequently suggested that the anti-AP contingent here is a bunch of bitter old dudes. I mean THAT should be obvious to anyone who reads. But this thread reveals a little deeper what that bitterness is all about. Reading both Blackhole and Singer posts in this thread it is clear that they some how think that because a person, whoever it may be has some success at advantage play, to the point that they are able to make a living, that this somehow diminishes their own achievements and the more traditional path that they took of education and successful career. And that is just ridiculous. The two have nothing to do with each other.

I have never heard or read any AP suggest that someone should drop out of college or leave a successful career that they are happy with to pursue advantage player. NEVER! As a matter of fact most successful AP's never suggest anyone pursue any kind of AP, simply because they don't want to create competition.

So what it boils down to is that these two people, Singer and Blackhole who claim to have achieved all this success in life are upset because a few other people are able to make some money beating the casinos? How does that threaten or have anything to do with any success that they have achieved? It is a ridiculous argument and just reveals their insecurities. But it DOES explain their bitterness to some degree. I suppose they are just as unhappy with people that win the lottery or sports figures that receive a huge payday, similarly thinking it somehow diminishes their success. :confused:

Do you see the point. There are many paths in life. For those that have the opportunity and ability to pursue a good education and embark on a successful career doing whatever....power to them. No body is diminishing your accomplishments. So there is no need for these insecurities. And like I said earlier, no AP has ever suggested that anyone NOT pursue a good education and related career.

If you guys are really successful and happy with your journey then act like it and stop acting like insecure little turds.

So somehow the topic of IQ came up, and I'm talking with a couple of friends and my girlfriend. I say that I took a bunch of proctored (not do-it-yourself) tests when I was a kid, and the scores ranged from lows in the 130's to 172, although sometimes I conflate the high end with my best bowling average for a year. My girlfriend, without breaking stride, says, "I live with you, and I've seen you bowl. I think you might have that 172 confused with your weight."

The nice thing is, when I'm in a room with my partners and girlfriend, I'm the low IQ guy. I like it that way. If you're the smartest guy in the room, you're in the wrong room.

And as for the original topic of this thread...gambling forums and Why?

Gambling forums have changed....all of them. And in a very short time. When I was early in my career and first found the blackjack gambling forums that I did, I learned a great deal from other members. A GREAT DEAL! Not all that common knowledge stuff in the books, but the things you can't and don't read about. Different players experiences, what they have learned from those experiences and how to navigate different situations next time they occur. Rarer, but occasionally even "secrets" of the business.

For the most part members were willing to help and share. That just no longer is the case on any of these forums. Now it is sniping and backstabbing among AP's. Pissing contests about who is best or smartest. And usually a contingent of AP haters, usually degenerate gamblers, hating anyone able to win money from the casinos on a consistent basis.

And this is all forums. They have all taken the same path...almost unrecognizable from what they were just 10 years ago and none more so that WOV. When Mike sold that forum, it became a joke. It's not a gambling related forum. It is a social media club house. If Mike had no intention of taking the forum seriously after the sale, he should have stepped aside. What that forum is still under his leadership is a joke and tarnishes his image and reputation, as far as I am concerned.

What a surprise--an over anxious kew showing up yet again whenever even the slightest inference about how phony his internet "pro bj player" claims are, appear.. Can't sleep at night?

Similarly, I'm not sure about all that blackhole has said but my opinion is that anyone who is a true AP does not have a "low IQ". Kew is not included in that group however, which is all he cares about here. My words matter to him more than anyone he's ever encountered anywhere--including homos in heat.

Wise up weak punk.

A very unimaginative and extremely predictable reply.

If you have forgotten Rob, there are a couple polls floating around that show no one and I mean no one believes any of you claims. Not a one!. I'd be happy to post it again if you have forgotten.

Meanwhile, I feel pretty confident that if you were to post a poll about me, most would say they believe me. I think I have proven I know what I am talking about. No doubt there would be some negative votes as a number of people don't like me very much, but if people were being honest it would be overwhelmingly positive. Certainly Not 25-2 against or whatever the last numbers of your poll were. :rolleyes:

And by the way Rob, thanks for proving my point. You are so insecure, the only thing you could do was attack someone else. Does that really make you feel better about your bitterness?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

A very unimaginative and extremely predictable reply.

If you have forgotten Rob, there are a couple polls floating around that show no one and I mean no one believes any of you claims. Not a one!. I'd be happy to post it again if you have forgotten.

Meanwhile, I feel pretty confident that if you were to post a poll about me, most would say they believe me. I think I have proven I know what I am talking about. No doubt there would be some negative votes as a number of people don't like me very much, but if people were being honest it would be overwhelmingly positive. Certainly Not 25-2 against or whatever the last numbers of your poll were. :rolleyes:

---

You should probably bump that "Singer" poll every once in awhile so new people can vote. I'm bumping the "Free Money" thread on the first of every month.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kewlJ

A very unimaginative and extremely predictable reply.

If you have forgotten Rob, there are a couple polls floating around that show no one and I mean no one believes any of you claims. Not a one!. I'd be happy to post it again if you have forgotten.

Meanwhile, I feel pretty confident that if you were to post a poll about me, most would say they believe me. I think I have proven I know what I am talking about. No doubt there would be some negative votes as a number of people don't like me very much, but if people were being honest it would be overwhelmingly positive. Certainly Not 25-2 against or whatever the last numbers of your poll were. :rolleyes:

---

Polls only mean something to insecure people. Our big difference (other than me being normal & healthy and you being sickly, unhealthy and queer) is how even the slightest dig against you and your concocted internet life completely unravels you, and how meaningless it is to me if people don't want to believe what I say. To you, that's the end of the world, and you prove it every time you slither back onto forums you constantly claim you're through with just to blast more lies just so your useless life has some make believe value and so you don't roll over onto the sheets you wet at night worrying about what anyone is saying about you on forums.

Now tell us exactly how you can count two tables at once again? :)

No sense in me responding to your hate Rob. I just feel bad for you...I really do. I can only hope that when I am nearing the end, I am not looking back with the bitterness and regret that you seem to be consumed with.

As for counting multiple tables, turns out it isn't even as rare as I initially thought. Most legit professional blackjack players have done some form of tracking a second table at times.

So you continuing to mock this is just crazy old Rob, talking about stuff he knows nothing about. It's the story of your internet existence. You are the fool....the village idiot. I can only hope you get royalties from the Monty Python skits about the village idiot. :cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tableplay

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickeycrimm

If you want to find the low IQ person in the room he’s the one calling other people low IQ.

---

Mickey here's the answers to the windbag Ex-AP's/EVBandit's "hard" IQ questions (LMFAO):
1) No crows left on the branch, the rest fly away when the first one is stoned (this is probably one of the questions the Frat Boys/X water Polo team/rowing crew asked him at his call side interview for a Wall Street job - nowadays they only hire PhD physics majors and mathematicians for these sorts of jobs since it's all high frequency trading and frontrunning; he's lucky he interviewed back in the good ole days)
2) N-Play VP - mistakes are amplified if you make a hold mistake on the deal (like we didn't already know this).
3) Markov Chain Scarab (for regular scarab or scarab grand:again, who would bother - not worth the infinitesimal gain in EV versus simple human generated rules-based approach):
1) setup a MySQL database (free open source database) with the following fields/variables:
a) column # of scarab occurrence of last spin if spin one through nine (missing value symbol if 10th spin was last spin)
b) row # of scarab occurrence of last spin if spin one through nine (missing value symbol if 10th spin was last spin)
c) denomination
d) Most recent spin number (10 minus the # of spins left until Scarab explosion)
e) Number of scarabs on board after most recent spin (has a value of 0 just after explosion obviously)
f) # of scarabs in column 1 after most recent spin
g) # of scarabs in column 2 after most recent spin
h) # of scarabs in column 3 after most recent spin
i)# of scarabs in column 4 after most recent spin
j)# of scarabs in column 5 after most recent spin
k) number of units bet at current denomination
l) ID number for uniquely identifying the group of spins belonging to a 10-spin sequence. This ID number is unique with respect to each group. This is for the development of time series variables as needed for model refinement.

2) data gathering phase to populate database shown in step 1: lots and lots of Youtube footage and casino observation of other players playing scarab with pen camera in shirt recording game play, including high limit room scarab footage.

3) Run the database through a CART algorithm (SAS/jmp;SAS data miner;SAS catmod macro;matlab;Python or any other of dozens of freeware packages).
This will generate a classification and regression tree (which uses a Markov chain algorithm) which shows what the likelihood is of scarabs occurring in various configurations on the next spin.
The bottom line is once you have the youtube and in-casino footage and then have stored it in your database, you can play around with different variables and responses until you have a usable model (CART tree) for the casino.


Anyway, even though I just mind-flayed that bitch, expect him to come back with more windbag/anal retentive low IQ insults. Also, expect him not to take a prop-bet for an IQ contest, he'll just keep ignoring this request like he did in his other post. The piece of shit calls me a fraud, but I'm sure you and the other forum members remember me stating that I am a one-bit hustler, and that I make about $1500 a month. Never stated otherwise and it is 100% the truth.

Cheers, TP.

---

tableplay, you are a fraud.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AxelWolf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAomAwIwxm8

---

I have a simple rule in life: I treat people the way they treat me.

When tableplay started attacking me, then I have no problem attacking him back. And if tableplay doesn’t want people attacking him, maybe he shouldn’t attack people in the first place.

I taught other AP’s Scarab with a Markov chain using a napkin and a pen, because that is all we had to use in a casino.

That is another reason I know tableplay is a fraud.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tableplay

For the same coin-in, N-play vp is lower variance than 1-play.

---

FOR THE RECORD, I stated tableplay, the moron IS A FRAUD BECAUSE S/HE isn’t conversant. I stand by that statement. tableplay, learn to read what I wrote. That is partly why you are a fraud.

I don’t why tableplay, the moron would start attacking me over FARMVILLE, but s/he did. I just asked for feedback on the FarmVille game and tableplay got butthurt over my FarmVille post. tableplay started a flamewar.

Here is how dumb (besides math-challenged, logic-challenged, etc) tableplay is:

N-play has covariance and this is a KNOWN FACT. So I will give you the seminal article that explains N-Play variance from the guy who worked out the math way before WoO entered the gambling scene.

“ What is the variance of N-play games?

It turns out the the variance of N-play has a simple linear relationship to the variance and covariance. To compute the variance of an N-play version of a game from the list, just add the base game variance to (N-1) times the covariance. For example, the variance of 9/6 Jacks in the 4-play version is 19.510 + (4-1)x1.966 = 25.408. (Note that variance is always given in units of bets squared.) The percentage column in the table gives the correlation coefficent (=100%*Covariance/Variance), which makes it easy to see that 4-play Jacks has about 30.2% more variance than the standard game per base bet. That is, for all four draws together the variance would be 4x(1.302) = 5.208 base bets squared instead of the 4 base bets squared you would get on four independent plays.”

source: http://jazbo.com/videopoker/nplay.html (the article was written over 20 years ago)

tableplay stated: For the same coin-in, N-play vp is lower variance than 1-play.

Jazbo stated: That is, for all four draws together the variance would be 4x(1.302) = 5.208 base bets squared instead of the 4 base bets squared you would get on four independent plays.

As I have been stating, tableplay is a fraud. tableplay is telling us 5.208 base bets squared < 4 base bets squared based on same coin in, same game or ceteris paribus. It’s so easy to spot the holes in tableplay’s stories.

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Originally Posted by kewlJ

No sense in me responding to your hate Rob. I just feel bad for you...I really do. I can only hope that when I am nearing the end, I am not looking back with the bitterness and regret that you seem to be consumed with.

As for counting multiple tables, turns out it isn't even as rare as I initially thought. Most legit professional blackjack players have done some form of tracking a second table at times.

So you continuing to mock this is just crazy old Rob, talking about stuff he knows nothing about. It's the story of your internet existence. You are the fool....the village idiot. I can only hope you get royalties from the Monty Python skits about the village idiot. :cool:

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Let's check the first sentence out again: "No sense in me responding to your hate, Rob"....then the insecure, relevance-seeking fairy proceeds to do just that!

I like dumping on you kew. You make it so darn easy :)

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Originally Posted by Rob.Singer

Let's check the first sentence out again: "No sense in me responding to your hate, Rob"....then the insecure, relevance-seeking fairy proceeds to do just that!

I like dumping on you kew. You make it so darn easy :)

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Rob, I know you think you are winning some sort of troll debate. Your NOT. All you are doing is continuing to make an ass of yourself. :rolleyes:

I tried to show you that when I made those polls. I am not going to bother to post them again. They served their purpose. No one and I mean NO ONE believes anything you say. You have ZERO credibility. Unfortunately you are either too stupid to realize that you are a complete joke in this community or probably more likely, you are in some sort of denial, where you think you are succeeding at whatever it is that you think you are doing...trollfest I guess. It's just pathetic Rob, you are 70 freaking years old.