Originally Posted by MDawg View Post
Originally Posted by kewlJ View Post
But for now, what strikes me as very odd about the above post is that you acknowledge casinos will not tolerate blackjack advantage play for long without taking countermeasures, which range from cutting off comps and freebies (often the first countermeasure that is sometimes missed by the player), to not allowing them to play anymore. Yet, with baccarat, you seem to think they don't care. They will allow a player to just keep winning and comp him on top of that.

Look every advantage play, from card counting, to very advanced stuff, was at one time unknown to the casinos. There are players that probably figured out something just today, or this week that the casinos are currently in the dark about. Unfortunately with traitors like Eliot, they don't stay in the dark for ever. So my point is that just because the casino hasn't figured out exactly what a player is doing, doesn't mean they are ok, with him winning forever. There is a point where they say no more, regardless of whether they understand what is happening or not. You seem to understand this about blackjack, but not baccarat. That is weird to me.
Okay, couple things. First off, I want to make clear that I don't speak in absolutes. I can speak only of my own experience, or of the experience of anyone who has played in casinos whom I know personally or know of.

Secondly, I am talking about known players. Players who play table games openly under their own identity, with a player card, and who have been playing for some time in the casinos, at a good level of play.

In my experience, casinos do Not cut off comps as a means to stop such blackjack players as are displaying clear signs of card counting or winning too consistently. Instead, they step in to tell us that we may no longer play blackjack (but are free to play other table games). Sometimes they do this with an outright back off from blackjack, and other times, such as they did to me, they effectively ban by limiting the spread between bets (in my case, to 3X, which made it not worth my continuing to play blackjack).

Again in my experience, no one I know has ever been backed off with regards to baccarat play, in any way, no matter how much he won in a given trip or over a period time.
I appreciate your tone, MDawg.

In my experience, which is blackjack only (or mainly), in most cases, when a player is backed off, barred, or told "no more blackjack", he has probably already missed a couple warning signs. These signs can be anything from a change in demeanor from pit personnel, staring at the player just to make them uncomfortable, the flipping through the discard rack when bets are raised, reduced penetration, to loss or reduction in comps and offers, including zeroing out comp dollars. Not always but in most cases, in my experience, the backoff or "no more blackjack" is not the first signal.

The first place that did this to me was South Point. No surprise really. They were in my regular rotation at the time for blackjack and I gave them a decent amount of rated machine play because they were giving decent mail offers. So one month I was expecting significant free play mail offer based on my coin in and I received no mailer. I inquired at the players card and was actually told that I had been "no mailed". Next time I plated blackjack I was backed off and have been backed off many times since. And I have had other offers stop and accounts zeroed out, so I try not to keep too much in them.

Your 3x bet restriction is a new one for me, in Vegas. I have never heard of anyone being bet restricted to that amount. As a matter of fact, I haven't seen or heard of much bet restricting in Vegas. I had a 1-10 bet restriction in Atlantic City and know of a number of players that have had that same restriction as it is the law or used to be back in 2008-2009 time frame. They would pull out a bet limit card that read minimum bet $5 Maximum bet $50, regardless that you might be playing a $25, $50 or even $100 table. But I just haven't heard of a lot of bet restricting (other than flat betting) done in Vegas. Not calling you a liar or saying it didn't happen....just a new one to me.