Professional Sportsbetting

[AxelWolf]

And no, it's not the same.

I assume you were talking about a situation where I start calling people about plays and I expect them to use their own money, take all the risk and pay me money only if they make money, and I pay them nothing if they lose.

That's exactly how those touts and people who take on investors for sports betting work. If the chumps win the guru gets his cut, if the chumps lose, too bad so sad. Repeat this each year.

Why would anybody agree to this arrangement? I guess maybe once, until they fully understand what is happening. But no one is going to stick with that arrangement are they?

And if not, then like most types of scams, the sports betting recruiters needs to find new "suckers" every year or cycle?

If this is indeed what Redietz was doing for 45 years, color me less than impressed with his sports betting career.

I'm not saying that's how Red works. I'm saying that's a common thing in the sports world. We have guys giving our both sides of the game.

[kewlJ]

I just keep going back to what I said last week. If a sports bettor could really pick 57% consistently, why would he need to get involved with any of these other kind of shit. He would just pick winners for himself and spread his bets around. He could make a small fortune without any of this other hassle. It would literally be a license to print money.

[coach belly]

I think people give him money and he does the work for a percentage of the profit.

What work is he doing?

Why do you ask him yourself.

You wrote that he does the work, what work you were talking about?

You're a professional gambler, you know how sports betting, analysis, information and advice works, right?

So use your imagination, what do you suppose you were talking about when you wrote "he does the work"?

[coach belly]

I have bought and paid for plays and information on numerous occasions.

I remember you stating that in the past.

It's unclear whether you ever sold plays or not, but on numerous occasions you did participate in the scheme of buying and selling plays.

Somebody turned you onto a play, you used your own money on the play, and you paid them even if the play lost...right?

This is the same scenario in my question below...

Q. Have you turned others onto AP plays, where they use their own money, and pay you, even if they lost money on the play you gave them?:

A. Not that I ever remember.

Let's call the buyer Axel, and call the seller a "guru" named "Red".

If the chumps win the guru gets his cut, if the chumps lose, too bad so sad.

Does that make Axel the chump?

Or is it just square biz, where you value the advice that the guru provides, and the guru considers you a client and not a chump?

[coach belly]

For example, I damn well know Redietz denied any kind of recruiting of clients until mickeycrimm dug up an old Integrity sports website or webpage

What talking points do you suppose Red could have fed me that would contradict your example above?

Do you doubt that he has clients?

[mickeycrimm]

In most cases there was an owner of the team that bankrolled the entire operation. Team members were just employee’s working for an hourly wage plus maybe a bonus. That’s how all the old video poker teams worked. I was offered jobs but always refused.

Frank Kneeland ran video poker teams for years. He said they didn't want employee's that knew to much or wanted to be professional gamblers. They didn't hire professional gamblers or anyone who aspired to be a professional gambler. They worked for an hourly wage, a bonus if they were the one to hit the royal, and slot club benefits. Potential employee's were given a video poker strategy sheet to study and were tested for their ability.

[kewlJ]

For example, I damn well know Redietz denied any kind of recruiting of clients until mickeycrimm dug up an old Integrity sports website or webpage

What talking points do you suppose Red could have fed me that would contradict your example above?

Do you doubt that he has clients?

I really have no idea if he had or has clients. He always said he didn't.

[coach belly]

How and why is it that coach belly is now speaking for Redietz

How?...I'm using a laptop

Why?...because kicks just keep gettin harder to find

[kewlJ]

In most cases there was an owner of the team that bankrolled the entire operation. Team members were just employee’s working for an hourly wage plus maybe a bonus. That’s how all the old video poker teams worked. I was offered jobs but always refused.

Frank Kneeland ran video poker teams for years. He said they didn't want employee's that knew to much or wanted to be professional gamblers. They didn't hire professional gamblers or anyone who aspired to be a professional gambler. They worked for an hourly wage, a bonus if they were the one to hit the royal, and slot club benefits. Potential employee's were given a video poker strategy sheet to study and were tested for their ability.

This is the way a lot of blackjack teams operated 10-20 years ago. They wanted disposable or throw away players. I was involved with such a team for a short period 15 years ago. I knew what they were yp to but needed the money to build my BR. I got out quickly.

[mickeycrimm]

First I don't condone the hijacking of EVERY thread by Madwg to continue with his obsessive trolling. He has adequate threads, most started by him to troll me. There is no need to hijack this thread started by mickey, attempting to get to the bottom of Redietz's history and claims.

I started this thread to highlight professional sportsbetters in the media, like Captain Jack Andrews, Rufus Peabody, Chinamaniac, etc. It had nothing to do with redietz. Its human interest. I've always been curious of how other professional gamblers operate. That includes sports bettors. I thought it would be entertaining and educational. And I've always studied professional gamblers.

[kewlJ]

First I don't condone the hijacking of EVERY thread by Madwg to continue with his obsessive trolling. He has adequate threads, most started by him to troll me. There is no need to hijack this thread started by mickey, attempting to get to the bottom of Redietz's history and claims.

I started this thread to highlight professional sportsbetters in the media, like Captain Jack Andrews, Rufus Peabody, Chinamaniac, etc. It had nothing to do with redietz. Its human interest. I've always been curious of how other professional gamblers operate. That includes sports bettors. I thought it would be entertaining and educational.

Fair enough. But in the process you have exposed some inconsistencies about Red.

So based on your research, are you personally doing any sports betting these days mickey?

[coach belly]

why would he need to get involved with any of these other kind of shit.

Because he makes more money with no risk.

It's a free roll...what's the EV on freeplay?

Is AP a license to print money?

Do APs make enough that they don't use freeplay?

[AxelWolf]

I remember you stating that in the past.

It's unclear whether you ever sold plays or not, but on numerous occasions you did participate in the scheme of buying and selling plays.

Somebody turned you onto a play, you used your own money on the play, and you paid them even if the play lost...right?

This is the same scenario in my question below...



Let's call the buyer Axel, and call the seller a "guru" named "Red".

If the chumps win the guru gets his cut, if the chumps lose, too bad so sad.

Does that make Axel the chump?

Or is it just square biz, where you value the advice that the guru provides, and the guru considers you a client and not a chump?

I paid people upfront for information on "slam dunk" plays that I didn't know about. They are plays that DON'T LAST LONG. Perhaps a Jackpot Promotion out of state. I have given people a free roll on plays because I need the help and I'll make more money since it's not scalable and it won't last long. Normally it's people who can't afford the play themselves, or they can afford it but they don't want to take the risk or they would rather just get an hourly or freeroll.

No, Im not selling plays. I may make a deal with someome where Im willing to put up all the money and show someome how to do it for half the wins, but I'll take all the losses. You can't do somthing like that with sports handicapping and still profit. I might just take on a partner and split everything down the middle.

[coach belly]

I really have no idea if he had or has clients. He always said he didn't.

He never said that he doesn't have clients, he mentioned them frequently.

For example...the Boeing VP that got the perfect SAT score, or the guy who busted his balls in the diner for losing 6 straight.

He said he wasn't recruiting clients, during a period when he wasn't taking new clients.

[AxelWolf]

If the chumps win the guru gets his cut, if the chumps lose, too bad so sad.

Does that make Axel the chump?

Or is it just square biz, where you value the advice that the guru provides, and the guru considers you a client and not a chump?

Yes that would make the buyer a chump since the buyer would most likely have a negative expectation when dealing with thin edges. Remember, according to Red there is no such thing as Expected Value when it comes to handicapping. I can understand why one might claim that in his buissness, because if you come up with the expected EV, then someome can show the math of why the client has no value if and when he gives freerolls to the guru.

[mickeycrimm]

First I don't condone the hijacking of EVERY thread by Madwg to continue with his obsessive trolling. He has adequate threads, most started by him to troll me. There is no need to hijack this thread started by mickey, attempting to get to the bottom of Redietz's history and claims.

I started this thread to highlight professional sportsbetters in the media, like Captain Jack Andrews, Rufus Peabody, Chinamaniac, etc. It had nothing to do with redietz. Its human interest. I've always been curious of how other professional gamblers operate. That includes sports bettors. I thought it would be entertaining and educational.

Fair enough. But in the process you have exposed some inconsistencies about Red.

So based on your research, are you personally doing any sports betting these days mickey?

I play poker on Bovada but can also bet sports. I think I have some money on Betonline too. I bet Druff's picks yesterday but only $22 per game. First sports bets I've made in years. It made the games interesting. I pushed one game and won the other one. I'm not looking to handicap games myself. There's to much skill involved that I don't have. Druff's sides and totals stats look strong enough that I won't get beat up to bad if I follow his pics.

But my challenge in my signature to Redietz still stands. Give me a 2 point discount on the favorites or 2 extra points on the dogs and we'll bet every game. Redietz has ignored that challenge because he knows he would be at a disadvantage.

[coach belly]

Perhaps a Jackpot Promotion out of state. I have given people a free roll on plays because I need the help and I'll make more money since it's not scalable and it won't last long.

That's what I asked about earlier...

Why do you use a team for your plays?

Isn't it because you are individually limited as to how much action you can get down?

[kewlJ]

Because he makes more money with no risk.

It's a free roll...what's the EV on freeplay?

Involving more people and players is NOT no risk. It adds risk. Now some kinds of plays you need a certain number of people, like Axelwolf has described in plays where you need to lock down a bank of machines. But most plays that can be done solo, when you expand to more people, you increase a variety of risks.

Do APs make enough that they don't use freeplay?

In some case yes.

Machine play, the free play is often PART of the play. The Fp can be what makes the play +EV.

But take what I do at card counting. The +EV comes from the card counting. So I and most card counters play unrated, refusing any "extra" type free play, which for table games comes in the forum of free bets or match plays. So for me and most table game AP's the answer is yes.

[coach belly]

They pay him for his opinion. They value his opinion.

They continue to pay for his advice only if it's profitable.

There is no way to mathematically quantify an opinion.

The conclusion of your "if/then" scenario below is null...the hypothesis does not exist.

if you come up with the expected EV, then someome can show the math of why the client has no value if and when he gives freerolls to the guru.

[kewlJ]

I play poker on Bovada but can also bet sports. I think I have some money on Betonline too. I bet Druff's picks yesterday but only $22 per game. So I lost a grand total of $2. First sports bets I've made in years. It made the games interesting. I pushed one game and won the other one. I'm not looking to handicap games myself. There's to much skill involved that I don't have. Druff's sides and totals stats look strong enough that I won't get beat up to bad if I follow his pics.

That is all good. Advantage play is advantage play at any level bet.

I also bet Druffs 3 picks (2 NFL, 1 NBA), but won some money. The 2 NFL were win and push. His NBA pick was Portland ML over Lakers. Druff even admitted it was a longshot, so I bet the points +10.5 instead, with a token small extra wager on ML. Made some money when Lakers won by 9. I also had my Carolina Panthers pick (+13.5) that I posted before the game against my Eagles that I am pretty proud of. It was just too many points. Haven't felt that strong about an NFL game for a long time. I liked that game so much I bet some extra money at B&M casinos because I wanted to get more than I could at my online books.

How do you do playing Poker on Bovada Mickey? Are you a winning player? I have never played a single hand of poker (excluding VP) online or in person.