Kewlj Getting Doxxed on WoV

[mickeycrimm]

The Wiz explains:

" March 14th, 2016 at 6:58:26 PM
permalink
It is with my much regret that I have to nuke kewlj. Normally we don't consider what goes on at other forums in our suspensions here. However, he has been spreading private and untrue information on other forums based on events here. "

Two weeks earlier he was suspended for a week for truce violation.

KJ knows EXACTLY what he said and where he said it: I don't, nor will I search for it; I read it as it happened, and that's enough.

Nowhere in this statement does Shack say he was threatened. I think he definitely used the quote larry put up as the excuse to ban kj. But I think it was his convenient excuse. Imagine yourself in KJ's position. You think you negotiated an agreement with Shack to return to WoV. But then Shack comes with "I have to run it by QFIT." WTF? Who's running the site? Shack or QFIT? You negotiated an agreement with Shack not knowing QFIT had veto power? What the fuck is that? Why did Shack not divulge that information until the negotiations were over? Thats what makes the whole thing stink to high heaven.

If I was in that spot I would automatically know I was set up for no return. QFIT was after getting KJ banned from all forums. No way in hell was he going to approve KJ's return to WoV. Shack was playing both ends against the middle. His minions were complaining about KJ's ouster. He appeased them by telling them he was considering reinstating KJ. But he had no such intention. He knew full well QFIT wouldn't go for it. He went through the charade of negotiating with KJ to further appease his minions. The KJ quote that Larry put up was the convenient excuse Shack used to tell his minions "We were working hard to reinstate KJ but then he threatened me so as far as I'm concerned KJ is dead." Shack played his minions for suckers portraying himself as doing everything he could to bring KJ back but KJ hung himself. Bullshit!

KJ didn't make the post about keeping the issue going until well after Shack told him "I have to run it by QFIT." Like I said, I would have automatically known at that point there was no coming back. So anything I subsequently write has no bearing on whether I will be reinstated. I don't blame KJ for blowing his stack at that point. I would have said a hell of a lot worse to Shackleford.

[LarryS]

the timeline is off....but its your opinion , and I cant change that

[kewlJ]

The Wiz explains:

" March 14th, 2016 at 6:58:26 PM
permalink
It is with my much regret that I have to nuke kewlj. Normally we don't consider what goes on at other forums in our suspensions here. However, he has been spreading private and untrue information on other forums based on events here. "

Two weeks earlier he was suspended for a week for truce violation.

KJ knows EXACTLY what he said and where he said it: I don't, nor will I search for it; I read it as it happened, and that's enough.

Oh god, you guys are killing me here....dragging me back into this. You KNOW I have to comment.

First... am I the only person that thinks it odd (really unfair) that Mike changed the rules midstream? "Normally we don't consider what goes on at other forums.....but I am suspending KJ for something said on another forum". He 'made up' a rule, or manufactured a reason to ban me because he owed Qfit a favor. Mike himself basically told me this privately later, is so many words.

Now second I am going to go over exactly what was said. Mike had mentioned to me in private that Qfit contacted him a many times complaining about me. So on another forum discussing my banning I said "Qfit had PMed Mike 19 times in a 24 hour period complaining".

So I guess the part Mike "thinks" is spreading untrue information is where I said 19 times instead of many times and where I said PMed instead of emailed which it was later revealed was the method of contact Qfit used.

BUT NEITHER OF THESE PEICES OF INFORMATION CAME FROM MIKE. I was told by another Moderator at WoV that Qfit had contacted Mike "19 times in a 24 hour period" and it was this other moderator was the one who told me "PM". So I made neither of those things up as Mike claims for his reason for banning me.

So therefore I did NOT spread private information from Mike like he thinks I did. I repeated information told me from another moderator at WoV. And I was NOT told by this other moderator that this information was private and not to repeat it!

I suspect Mike was pissed because I stated the exact number of times Qfit complained. (and BTW 19 times in 24 hours says...."something". lol) BUT that didn't come from him. He never told me an exact number. That came from another moderator. Maybe he should take it up with that moderator. And BTW I have never identified that moderator, even though it is a moderator I don't have much respect for.

[mickeycrimm]

the timeline is off....but its your opinion , and I cant change that

So Kj made the post supposedly threatening Mike during negotiations but Mike kept negotiatiing with KJ and when negotiations were over he said "I have to run it by QFIT?" Then subsequently banned Kj for threatening him? Is that what you are saying happened? There would have been no need for "I have to run it by QFIT" if it happened that way. Shack would have just banned him right there. Whose timeline is off?

[LarryS]

First... am I the only person that thinks it odd (really unfair) that Mike changed the rules midstream? "Normally we don't consider what goes on at other forums.....but I am suspending KJ for something said on another forum". He 'made up' a rule, or manufactured a reason to ban me because he owed Qfit a favor. Mike himself basically told me this privately is so many words.

I have said this before...just as you has said what you said before.
Making up rules as he goes is normal operating procedure at wov. For instance someone was banned for supposedly welshing on a bet with another poster. No such rule. That occurred while you were a member in good standing. I and others had been commenting and pointing out uneven and overly punitive punishment by mods for 2 years before you were banned. Commenting on that very site. A big reason why I hadnt built up good will like you did.
So get in line. You were treated like dozens of people before you. So no you arent the only person who thought things were unfair. Me and others had been on that subject for years. I and others personally defended others that we thought were mistreated. If more people like you would have joined in...things may have been different. Maybe the climate would have been different. There is strength in numbers,

But unfortunately there were never "numbers"...just a small minority of us(who all eventually got banned). OThers like you were happy to stay in their lane and not rock the boat as long as no one mistreated you. So eventually the people who kept quiet get the heavy hand of the mods that they kept quiet about...and then all of a sudden they complain. Too late.

Also this is yet another example of you being in the world of me me me. BY using a specific number like "19"..you may have outed the mod that was sympathetic to you and gave you info. You could have been more protective and said "over a dozen". You could have used the phrase "excessive numbers of emails/PMS". But you had no thought in protecting your source because its all about me me me. Maybe the wiz told alot of people about the number "19" and you didnt out a single person. But maybe he told only one person that exact number. You had no idea. It would have been common courtesy to at least try to shield your source from exposure.. But you didnt. So please dont brag that the Wiz was mistaken. You were careless and thoughtless and all about yourself.

[kewlJ]

the timeline is off....but its your opinion , and I cant change that

So Kj made the post supposedly threatening Mike during negotiations but Mike kept negotiatiing with KJ and when negotiations were over he said "I have to run it by QFIT." Then subsequently banned Kj for threatening him? Is that what you are saying happened? There would have been no need for "I have to run it by QFIT" if it happened that way. Shack would have just banned him right there. Whose timeline is off?

Mickey is correct. The so-called "threat", which I maintain was no threat but a promise to not let this die, was the final contact I had with Mike. He responded angrily and closed my account at Diversity Tomorrow so I had no other way to continue to contact him.

But it was the same time frame. It went something like this.

We had basically reached an agreement we both could live with. Mike said h needed to run it by Qfit. Surprise!!!..Qfit was not on board! Up until that point I really had no idea Qfit was in such control of Mike. (this is a sad face, not for me, but for Mike, allowing himself to be played like this....I feel bad for him).

So after Qfit 'nixed' the deal, Mike had a sort of compromise idea or plan. He said he would present the entire situation to Zuga and allow him to make the call. And in a rather conciliatory note, Mike promised to tell Zuga that I was a valuable and well liked member. My own personal feeling was this was so Mike could then tell Qfit that it was not his call, when Qfit blow up about it and he undoubtably would. But again, that's my own thought.

Now it was at this time messages were being exchanged quickly and several actually crossed. One that crossed was a reference by Mike that there would be "consequences from Qfit" if Mike allowed me back. That is when I made the statement that everyone thinks was a threat. I said there would be consequences from me as well. I would not let this die and the rest of what Larry quoted.

THAT was NOT a threat. It was simply a response that their would be consequences from me as well. I obviously didn't get across what my intention was. And probably should not even have gone that route since we were making progress. One of many things I would have handled differently. As I said, plenty of blame to go around. Most of mine is in this aftermath area. Things said and the way they were said, including a lot of unnecessary and immature name calling. Regrets...I've had a few.... You guys are lucky there is no audio or I would be singing.

[mickeycrimm]

what the hell.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...cXyC9-yrJcpX-K

[LarryS]

Mickey is correct. The so-called "threat", which I maintain was no threat but a promise to not let this die,

exposing his integrety and professionalism in a negative light for the rest of his life in a public manner whenever you have the chance is a THREAT.

dont try to tap dance.

any sane person would see that as a threat

and any same person would not set the precedent to bend ad accomodate a person who threatens

[MisterV]

I could never figure out the wiz's motivation in this fiasco.

What power did Qfit have over him, such that he feared there would be "consequences from Qfit it Mike allowed me back?"

One can only speculate, and all of the possibilities either do not compute or stink to high heavens.

So yeah, you got hosed.

As LarryS. points out that sort of thing was not unique.

Even today people piss and moan there about the good members being exiled to Siberia, most recently ping pang pong (or whatever).

[kewlJ]

I have said this before...just as you has said what you said before.
Making up rules as he goes is normal operating procedure at wov. For instance someone was banned for supposedly welshing on a bet with another poster. No such rule. That occurred while you were a member in good standing. I and others had been commenting and pointing out uneven and overly punitive punishment by mods for 2 years before you were banned. Commenting on that very site. A big reason why I hadnt built up good will like you did.
So get in line. You were treated like dozens of people before you. So no you arent the only person who thought things were unfair. Me and others had been on that subject for years. I and others personally defended others that we thought were mistreated. If more people like you would have joined in...things may have been different. Maybe the climate would have been different. There is strength in numbers,

But unfortunately there were never "numbers"...just a small minority of us(who all eventually got banned). OThers like you were happy to stay in their lane and not rock the boat as long as no one mistreated you. So eventually the people who kept quiet get the heavy hand of the mods that they kept quiet about...and then all of a sudden they complain. Too late.

Also this is yet another example of you being in the world of me me me. BY using a specific number like "19"..you may have outed the mod that was sympathetic to you and gave you info. You could have been more protective and said "over a dozen". You could have used the phrase "excessive numbers of emails/PMS". But you had no thought in protecting your source because its all about me me me. Maybe the wiz told alot of people about the number "19" and you didnt out a single person. But maybe he told only one person that exact number. You had no idea. It would have been common courtesy to at least try to shield your source from exposure.. But you didnt. So please dont brag that the Wiz was mistaken. You were careless and thoughtless and all about yourself.

You have said this before and I know this is how you feel, but I think this is somewhat of an unfair characterization on your part, Larry. For example, yes I know someone was banned for welching on a bet...or supposedly...I don't even know. Also, even at this time, much later, with this bet-welching incident still talked about and brought up, I couldn't tell you who is is?? maybe strickly Ap? I really don't know.

The reason I don't know is because I don't read most threads. If a thread isn't about blackjack or maybe a promo, or on topic of Las Vegas, I wasn't much interested. Go back and look at the thread I posted in. I did get into a little bit of politics and sports talk, but mainly I was interested in Blackjack, AP promos, Las vegas. So no I don't know everything that went on.

Take Alan's 18 y.o. in row. I think that whole thing happened why I was at WoV. I never even heard about it until I came to this site. I didn't read, nor had any interest in craps. And the same thing probably occurred with you. I think one (of many) reasons you dislike me so much is because you feel like I didn't speak up when you were banned. I honestly know nothing of your banning. I didn't read about it when it occurred. I don't know the circumstances. I did go back and look a little bit when last year when we discussed this topic at GF. If I recall the reason given was multiple violations of something. I have no idea as to details or if that is "trumped up".

You have criticized me before for this. You interpret it as not caring about other members. But what it really is, is that I had a limited interest at WoV. I participated in limited discussions, as mentioned. I didn't LIVE for WOV. It was one of 3 sites I posted on regularly, the other two much more specific blackjack sites, where I did read everything. Forgive me Larry for not being interested in everything said at WoV and who said what and who was treated badly. I do have a career ya know. I'm a professional.

BUT if it makes you feel any better, because of some of the things you pointed out and having gone back and read some stuff, I did learn some things about the site, Mike, other mods and how the site was run that I didn't know at the time and don't like now. Yes many things that happened while I was there. So it isn't with any sense of anger or bitterness when I say today, That WoV is not the site that I thought it was when I participated there. I guess that's on me.

[mickeycrimm]

Yes, it was strictlyap that got squashed for welshing a bet but it was a secret mod that banned him. And I think its a well known secret that Wizardofnothing was strictlyap.

[kewlJ]

Even today people piss and moan there about the good members being exiled to Siberia, most recently ping pang pong (or whatever).

You do know that "ping pang pong" is here now right?

So yeah, you got hose.

Well, Gee, I don't remember YOU speaking up? According to your best friend Larry, if you look the other way when you feel something is wrong and don't speak up, you are just as much to blame.

I could never figure out the wiz's motivation in this fiasco.

What power did Qfit have over him, such that he feared there would be "consequences from Qfit it Mike allowed me back?"

One can only speculate, and all of the possibilities either do not compute or stink to high heavens.

I don't think there is any great mystery. I have heard all sorts of things, some bizarre. I think it is rather simple. Mike had or has great respect for Qfit as a fellow math guy, particularly a blackjack math guy that Mike used to have much more interest in. As Qfit is older than Mike, I would go as far to say, he "looked up to him".

Apparently Qfit did some sort of math work as a favor to Mike on something (I don't know what). And Mike felt indebted to him, or like he owed him a favor. One could speculate that he was "reminded' that he owed that favor.

So Mike took sides in a feud that he knew nothing about. And banned what he himself called a valuable member of 4 years.

I think that is basically the story.

Personally, I think Mike was played and got in over his head. I think he still has regrets to this whole situation and how it went down. Unfortunately, he is unable to bring himself to deal with it. AND my immature behavior in the aftermath and name calling and all for months, gave him a reason to justify not doing anything. Plenty of blame to go around.

If I had to score it. Mike was initially very wrong in his decision and handling of my banning. I was equally very, very wrong (and immature) in my handling of much of the aftermath. Although in my very weak defense, much of that was out of frustration.

Qfit was ....well I am not even going to go there. I wish everyone happiness.

[kewlJ]

Yes, it was strictlyap that got squashed for welshing a bet but it was a secret mod that banned him. And I think its a well known secret that Wizardofnothing was strictlyap.

I didn't know until very recently that WoV was strictlyAP. But back at GF, in a private message, WoN, described himself as a personal friend of Mike's. Was that some sort of delusion?

He also fed me some private info on Mike that in my immature and poor way of handling things, I used. I assumes (I guess I play the part of "ass") that info was legit because he knew Mike personally...or so he said. I am sure those comments endeared me to Mike.

[MisterV]

Maybe as part of your recovery from heart surgery you can take up unicycling.

I've no idea what kind of shape you're in, but if you master it and put up a youtube or two of your prowess, well, katie bar the door, the word would quickly spread at WoV and no doubt somebody (it might even be me, assuming I'm not yet banned) would throw out the word "challenge."

He who pedals last ...

[kewlJ]

Maybe as part of your recovery from heart surgery you can take up unicycling.

I've no idea what kind of shape you're in, but if you master it and put up a youtube or two of your prowess, well, katie bar the door, the word would quickly spread at WoV and no doubt somebody (it might even be me, assuming I'm not yet banned) would throw out the word "challenge."

He who pedals last ...

I'll pass on the unicycling. Not my cup of tea.

I am in pretty good shape for my age, I think. I am about 10 lbs heavier at about 160 /162 than I would like to be. Isn't everyone? Mine isn't a reflection of my recent medical issues and recovery, if anything I would attribute it to the Vegas lifestyle and regular buffet eating.

I don't do New Years resolutions because all that does it set people up to fail and feel bad about themselves. What a way to start a new year! But I am going to seriously try to lose 10 lbs this spring and be a little more active. My partner/spouse, a heavy person, lost 46 pounds last year, mostly since July. He has much more to go, but he has managed to drop weight while eating at the buffets regularly, so I can't really use the buffets as an excuse.

[LarryS]

The end result is this....its simple

Even if the wiz got people whispering in his ear over the following months after the ban, and got the mods to back you, and after time he started to soften had you walked away quietly......things may have been different as time heals all wounds.

However once you threw the hand grenade on the way out....the above could not happen. Now I probably would have done something as well that pissed him off. Heck by me going to GF and co-founding that thread, pretty much ensured I will never be back on wov. I didnt need to threaten/promise him that I wouldnt forget and wouldnt let up. I just did what you threatened. I didnt let up regarding how others were treated, speaking less than 10 percent of the time about myself. Just as freddy did. Pointing out his failures and the failures of the mods to act decently , evenly and with proper customer service values.

But by threatening tainting the public's view of his professionalism and integrity via lifetime public reprimands....you closed the door on returning just like I did with my thread on GF and GG. You threw the hand grenade on the way out. You didnt have to. You could have let things organically unfold to a natural conclusion. A conclusion that may or may not have been favorable to you. But by your actions, you ensured that the conclusion was going to be unfavorable to you....just like I did for myself.

No regrets for me. Thats why the majority ...vast majority of the hundreds of pages on GF,,,,had little to do with my specific banning, I had a few pages going back and forth with mission and 2 pages with Face...and that was it. Everything else involves other people and general behavior.

So no....i dont give a fuck if you personally defended me when I was banned. I didnt even know you existed. But I do want you to realize that there were dozens of people before you that were fucked, and as MrV STATES, ITS STILL GOING ON. The thread on GF was about others....not about me. It was about systematic widespread abuse of people...often people who are on the unpopular side of issues. Dozens of people and activities were referenced by me and freddy.....having nothing to do with us personally.

The name of the thread was WOV is dying.....not "LarryS was fucked by wov.". And lovepotion9. me and freddy kept to that topic. It wasnt about us.

However, you mostly concentrated on yourself and your case on that thread. That is the difference between you and I.

[LarryS]

Yes, it was strictlyap that got squashed for welshing a bet but it was a secret mod that banned him. And I think its a well known secret that Wizardofnothing was strictlyap.

I didn't know until very recently that WoV was strictlyAP. But back at GF, in a private message, WoN, described himself as a personal friend of Mike's. Was that some sort of delusion?

He also fed me some private info on Mike that in my immature and poor way of handling things, I used. I assumes (I guess I play the part of "ass") that info was legit because he knew Mike personally...or so he said. I am sure those comments endeared me to Mike.

on GF.....Won was one of the most immature vulgar people who taunted freddy accusing him of fucking his grandmother, grand father,, animals...never ending vulgarities. And you felt he was credible????? He claimed to have a "real girl" laying on his chest as he typed and posted. How immature is that??as opposed to a blow up doll I guess. And this guy fed you intel???? lol

[kewlJ]

on GF.....Won was one of the most immature vulgar people who taunted freddy accusing him of fucking his grandmother, grand father,, animals...never ending vulgarities. And you felt he was credible????? He claimed to have a "real girl" laying on his chest as he typed and posted. How immature is that??as opposed to a blow up doll I guess. And this guy fed you intel???? lol

I don't know or care about most of that? Yukky, yukky.

So I am going back to your post before this one. Our situations are different LarryS. Many of you guys are traditional working guys with some sort of traditional job/career. You come home and log onto a forum of the topic of gambling, something that you have an interest in. Could just as easily be a forum on the topic of cars, or camping or bowling. It's sort of a hobby....as I said an interest. And that is fine. I am not putting that down. That's great. If it comes off that I am looking down on that, I really am not.

But I and a handful of others, earn of living playing at the casinos. I am not going to use the term "professional" to avoid that whole debate, but it is our livelihood. It's how we earn our living, pay rent /mortgages, put food on the table.

So you guys, get into some sort of discussion that leads to debate that turns nasty. Names called, feelings hurt, things said in heat that maybe shouldn't be. And some moderator says you (or the other guy) went over the line and issues a suspension. That's fine. It is basically a game to you guys....entertainment if you will.

But to those of us that make our living at the casinos, participating on these sites is much more than entertainment. Sure there is some entertainment mixed in, but there is something much more. Our reputations. AP's use these sites to network. We build credibility and a reputation. That is why almost all AP's use the same handle or some slight variation of. We aren't hiding, we are putting out reputation on the line.

For many this networking and building leads to partnerships, long-term or short-term or team play. Being a solo-type blackjack player and even now with a partner, I am still a solo type player, I am not looking to partner or team up with other AP's. But that could change someday. Maybe as my career winds down I will want to join some sort of team and go out with a bang. A 'burn all bridges' last run.

Now my reputation, has been damaged. Just read that post at WoV over the weekend from one of the top blackjack guys, team organizers and managers. He says he has seen me play (I still wonder ), and that I am top notch. He also says he would not want me on his team. My reputation is damaged from all this. Yes, some my doing, maybe much my doing in the "aftermath". But there should have been no "aftermath". The initial damage, the initial problem, was the banning at Wizards site and there was no reason for that.

There really was no reason for my banning at the initial blackjack site (Qfit's), but that is Qfit. He has a long reputation of feuding. And most people knew that I was right and he was for some odd reason protecting someone who was misleading players and members. I'm not going to get into all that.

The banning at Qfit's site didn't hurt me that much. The blackjack people in the community knew what was going on. But when Qfit trolled me to Mike's site and manipulated and bullied Mike into banning me, people in the BJ community took a different view. I was now banned at 2 different sites. I must be the problem. The bad guy. The difficult guy. Players that I networked with regularly, began to distance themselves. What my reputation is in the BJ AP community was more or less confirmed at WoV, this weekend. And that isn't a game, or my entertainment. It is my career and could directly influence and harm my pocket...my income.

So yeah, I fought back hard. And subsequently dug a deeper hole I guess.

[LarryS]

There have been people in this world that were fired from their jobs, and time passes and the boss rethinks the reasons of firing and realizes it was a mistake and asks the person back. That is assuming the person left the premises calm cool and collective. If the person burned the bridge on the way out...then the person doesnt ever get asked back.

You were in a similar situation.(and me too) on wov. Mike is the boss,,,,,at least the acting boss ...and he let you go....and he may have felt remorse had you just walked away and said thanks for the years of free access to the site and maybe one day our paths will cross. blah blah blah....

In both cases above, temporarily people may view you and the fired person as "damaged goods"......but when they were asked back, that label goes away.

However like you said...if you" dig a deeper hole".....then the "damaged goods" tag sticks. they never get asked back.

in both cases the reason for the firing/banning may be bogus.....but you can choose to make lemonaide from lemons and possibly find redemption later on....or you can throw the lemons at the boss and say fuck you.

Now like you said, i have nothing to lose by throwing lemons at the wiz. But you do....and you threw lemons as well..and that was a tactical error. You under-estimated the fallout. It happens.

[MisterV]

The hole may be deep, but there is light at the top.

Dig your way out.

Here's how.

Post interesting threads about APing blackjack, and avoid the emotion.

That's it.